Savvy and healthy too.
People will line up for it.

Yeah, my sister's been trying to make herself do this after more than 26 years of being vegetarian. She has no desire to eat meat, but she genuinely believes that this is a better way to eat, especially cutting out grains.

I'm skeptical. And more importantly, I really don't want creatures to have to die for my meal, and if that means a less than optimum diet I don't have a huge problem with that.

_{/just past 25 years as a vegetarian
//in before some idiot claims they'll eat 2 animals for every one I don't}

Procedural Texture: Yeah, my sister's been trying to make herself do this after more than 26 years of being vegetarian. She has no desire to eat meat, but she genuinely believes that this is a better way to eat, especially cutting out grains.

I'm skeptical. And more importantly, I really don't want creatures to have to die for my meal, and if that means a less than optimum diet I don't have a huge problem with that.

/just past 25 years as a vegetarian
//in before some idiot claims they'll eat 2 animals for every one I don't

Why do you have a problem eating one living creature and no problem eating another living creature(plant). They're both living. They both have feelings. They both have intelligence. Is it because one (the animal) is more like you? That's quite arrogant.

My sister is doing this diet, only her circle calls it "Paleo". However, I have to say, she's actually really good about sticking with it for the last year or so with a few breaks for a week or so in the middle. Also, she's been plagued with acne since middle school and still has outbreaks from time to time as an adult. Since she started this diet and cut the dairy and grains out her skin hasn't looked better. She's also been applying this to her baking and has been making some pretty yummy experiments that she likes to bring over like Date and Cacoa chip cookies.

Right now a group at her crossfit gym has initiated a full on challenge that everyone not only stick with Paleo diet but also work out a certain hours a day. Their system is that you record what you eat, keep tabs with one another on facebook and there's a point system. Certain number of points for X hours of work out, points for difficulty and points for sticking with paleo. If you have a cup of strawberries with sugar sprinkled on it, you get no points for the day. It's hardcore man. She's been doing this for 2 months already and has to make it to Thanksgiving where they all get together for a Turkey Trot and are then free to eat whatever they want again. I think the person with the most points gets a month at the gym for free.

/Going over this weekend to make meatloaf cupcakes with her
//complete with a sweet potato mash topping

Procedural Texture: Yeah, my sister's been trying to make herself do this after more than 26 years of being vegetarian. She has no desire to eat meat, but she genuinely believes that this is a better way to eat, especially cutting out grains.

I'm skeptical. And more importantly, I really don't want creatures to have to die for my meal, and if that means a less than optimum diet I don't have a huge problem with that.

/just past 25 years as a vegetarian
//in before some idiot claims they'll eat 2 animals for every one I don't

I'll eat 3 animals for every one that you don't. Take THAT, hippie!!

I'll have the roast duck with mango salsa.

Ive been on this meal program for years

dryknife: I'll have the roast duck with mango salsa.

Apparently there's a recipe for that in my sister's Paleo cookbook. I was really hoping that it was a joke after the fact. Haven't had it but we keep talking about trying it.

submitted, better, old news, etc
2011-07-24
The "Caveman Diet" is all the rage among doctors who spend their entire days forraging and hunting in untamed wilderness instead of doing doctor stuff in modern cities... or something
(0)

/and a typo, too

RELIGION


OF PEAS

I tried this diet as part of my CrossFit program. It's unsustainable at best. It's basically a modified Atkins Diet. They claim if you stick to it your cholesterol will drop, but I don't see how that's possible.

/Gluten-free bread and Diet Pepsi...just like the cavemen

Procedural Texture: I'm skeptical. And more importantly, I really don't want creatures to have to die for my meal, and if that means a less than optimum diet I don't have a huge problem with that.

You're not only skeptical, you are trying to deny evolution. We evolved to be obligate omnivores. For me to live, something else has to die. And I'm OK with that.

tomo12144: I tried this diet as part of my CrossFit program. It's unsustainable at best. It's basically a modified Atkins Diet. They claim if you stick to it your cholesterol will drop, but I don't see how that's possible.

/Gluten-free bread and Diet Pepsi...just like the cavemen

Gluten free bread? Wha?

Typical for me is my lunch: Salad (lettuce, peppers, onion) with a low-fat, low-carb dressing, and some tuna. Just plain tuna, no mayo, no bread. And an apple for a snack later. Drink is water.

It's a good filling lunch, and it doesn't involve anything that didn't exist in some form 10,000 years ago.

I've been on the Paleo diet since August, and I've lost 30 pounds. The concept is really, really dumb, but I can't argue with the results.

tomo12144: I tried this diet as part of my CrossFit program. It's unsustainable at best. It's basically a modified Atkins Diet. They claim if you stick to it your cholesterol will drop, but I don't see how that's possible.

/Gluten-free bread and Diet Pepsi...just like the cavemen

I tried this as part of my Crossfit program, and it is very sustainable. I have stuck with it for 22 months now, and my performance and general health are both improved. Dropped from 240# to a little under 200# in 6 months. Bloodwork looks great!

There are similarities and differences between Atkins and Paleo, but the biggest is that Paleo has a time and place for eating starchy vegetables (sweet potatoes, etc) - generally tied very closely to post WOD recovery. Paleo doesn't make a blanket recommendation of low carb eating, it depends on your activity levels.

And gluten free bread and diet pepsi are both off my menu.

/cool anecdote, bro!

cobes: I've been on the Paleo diet since August, and I've lost 30 pounds. The concept is really, really dumb, but I can't argue with the results.

I lost over 50 since May.

The idea isn't that dumb: Humans evolved over millions of years to eat a particular diet, one of vegetables, fruits, nuts, and lean meat and fish, with limited fats. Only relatively recently have we started eating high-calorie, low-nutrition foods like potatoes, bread, pasta, and rice as staples. If you figure that widespread large-scale agriculture didn't catch on world-wide until around 7 to 10,000 years ago, that's only 438 to 625 generations, not a long time from an evolutionary standpoint.

tomo12144: I tried this diet as part of my CrossFit program. It's unsustainable at best. It's basically a modified Atkins Diet. They claim if you stick to it your cholesterol will drop, but I don't see how that's possible.

/Gluten-free bread and Diet Pepsi...just like the cavemen

From what perspective?

I don't know anyone who does paleo and thinks diet pepsi and gluten free bread are part of it.

Oh, hey. The latest fad diet.

It isn't really "Paleo" until you start living the hunter-gatherer lifestyle, you know. Good luck with that. I'll stick with this newfangled agriculture thing.

dittybopper:
I lost over 50 since May.

The idea isn't that dumb: Humans evolved over millions of years to eat a particular diet, one of vegetables, fruits, nuts, and lean meat and fish, with limited fats. Only relatively recently have we started eating high-calorie, low-nutrition foods like potatoes, bread, pasta, and rice as staples. If you figure that widespread large-scale agriculture didn't catch on world-wide until around 7 to 10,000 years ago, that's only 438 to 625 generations, not a long time from an evolutionary standpoint.

I agree with that, just not the caveman part of the concept. A caveman wouldn't have access to McDonald's french fries, so I can't have them? Why can't it just be that McDonald's french fries are really bad?

liam76: tomo12144: I tried this diet as part of my CrossFit program. It's unsustainable at best.

Actually that's true, though not in the sense you're talking about. One of the big knocks against this diet is that so much of the world's population relies on grain and soy for their diet that if everyone cut it out, there wouldn't be enough food for everyone.

Ul?

I gave up wheat/gluten about three weeks ago and have seen a reduction in belly fat and improvement in my mood and my dookers. I started reading Wheat Belly last week and his conclusions seem to make sense though your mileage may vary since we're all different.

I haven't given up grains completely, but I've been substituting amaranth, buckwheat and almond flour in for wheat flour. It's worked pretty well so far.

"He said: 'Many people think the Paleolithic diet is just some hipster trend, but it's a worldwide phenomenon, with an online community that spans the globe."

It seems attached to and promoted by Crossfit groups more than anything else. Groups which seem to love them some pseudoscience and being different for the sake of being different.

dittybopper: cobes: I've been on the Paleo diet since August, and I've lost 30 pounds. The concept is really, really dumb, but I can't argue with the results.

I lost over 50 since May.

The idea isn't that dumb: Humans evolved over millions of years to eat a particular diet, one of vegetables, fruits, nuts, and lean meat and fish, with limited fats. Only relatively recently have we started eating high-calorie, low-nutrition foods like potatoes, bread, pasta, and rice as staples. If you figure that widespread large-scale agriculture didn't catch on world-wide until around 7 to 10,000 years ago, that's only 438 to 625 generations, not a long time from an evolutionary standpoint.

And in that time the average human life expectancy has tripled. I find it hard to believe "we evolved to eat like cavemen there for we should" is a valid excuse. Cavemen were old if they lived to 30. Now yeah, that has a lot to do with modern hygiene and medicine, but whos to say the modern diet doesn't also contribute.

liam76: I don't know anyone who does paleo and thinks diet pepsi and gluten free bread are part of it.

Link (new window)

laserhan: dittybopper: cobes: I've been on the Paleo diet since August, and I've lost 30 pounds. The concept is really, really dumb, but I can't argue with the results.

I lost over 50 since May.

The idea isn't that dumb: Humans evolved over millions of years to eat a particular diet, one of vegetables, fruits, nuts, and lean meat and fish, with limited fats. Only relatively recently have we started eating high-calorie, low-nutrition foods like potatoes, bread, pasta, and rice as staples. If you figure that widespread large-scale agriculture didn't catch on world-wide until around 7 to 10,000 years ago, that's only 438 to 625 generations, not a long time from an evolutionary standpoint.

And in that time the average human life expectancy has tripled. I find it hard to believe "we evolved to eat like cavemen there for we should" is a valid excuse. Cavemen were old if they lived to 30. Now yeah, that has a lot to do with modern hygiene and medicine, but whos to say the modern diet doesn't also contribute.

Actually, no it hasn't, not really.

People lived to be in their 50's and 60's and beyond back then, if they managed to survive childhood. Otzi was roughly 45 years old when he was killed by an arrow to the back and a blow to the head. He did have some diseases, like Lyme disease and whipworm, along with arthritis, but it's not unimaginable that he could have lived another 20 or 30 years.

He did have cavities, and some arteriosclerosis, though, likely due to his grain-heavy diet.

The real reason that the average life expectancy has skyrocketed relatively recently is that we've managed to beat many of the diseases and conditions that cause newborns, infants, and young children to die.

Leopold Stotch: I tried this as part of my Crossfit program

Damn I love CrossFit. I've been at it since Mid-August and I'm hooked. Trainer yelled at me last week for going to too many WODs. I was doing 6 a week.

tomo12144: liam76: I don't know anyone who does paleo and thinks diet pepsi and gluten free bread are part of it.

Link (new window)

See, I came into it via the back door: The distaffbopper went on a "lean and green" diet in preparation for weight loss surgery, and I just tagged along for support and to help keep the food bill down. Lean protein (game meats, lean beef, turkey, chicken, fish, etc.), plenty of vegetables, but excluding corn, potatoes, and legumes, some fruit, and minor amounts of stuff like olives, nuts, etc. No rice, no bread, no potatoes, no pasta.

I didn't even think about it being "paleo" until halfway through when I realized this was all stuff you could basically eat as a hunter/gatherer.

dittybopper: tomo12144: I tried this diet as part of my CrossFit program. It's unsustainable at best. It's basically a modified Atkins Diet. They claim if you stick to it your cholesterol will drop, but I don't see how that's possible.

/Gluten-free bread and Diet Pepsi...just like the cavemen

Gluten free bread? Wha?

Typical for me is my lunch: Salad (lettuce, peppers, onion) with a low-fat, low-carb dressing, and some tuna. Just plain tuna, no mayo, no bread. And an apple for a snack later. Drink is water.

It's a good filling lunch, and it doesn't involve anything that didn't exist in some form 10,000 years ago.

Wheat didn't spread beyond the fertile crescent until about roughly 10,000 years ago, so depending on what you want to define as a subjective origin, I can see how gluten-free figures into a paleo diet.

I know people who've been doing CrossFit on this diet and look amazing. On the other hand I'm sure being out at five in the morning every day flipping tires in a parking lot has more than just a little bit to do with that.

Here's an idea: why don't you choose a diet with a calorie total that you set according to a goal (I.e. lose, maintain or gain weight)? Focus on foods that you find delicious and vary it frequently to obtain the full spectrum of nutritional needs.

Remember to exercise regularly and drink plenty of water.

cobes: dittybopper:
I agree with that, just not the caveman part of the concept. A caveman wouldn't have access to McDonald's french fries, so I can't have them? Why can't it just be that McDonald's french fries are really bad?

Because that statement is supposed to be a helpful rule of thumb, not a scientific proof.

The scientific rationale is more like:
1. Potatoes have a high glycemic index, which promotes high insulin spikes, which over time will lead to insulin resistance and then diabeetus.
2. Vegetable oils (used for frying) are rich in pro-inflammatory Omega 6 fats. Our ratio of Omega 3 to Omega 6 fats is way, way skewed towards Omega 6 in the modern diet. Avoid them.

tomo12144:
Damn I love CrossFit. I've been at it since Mid-August and I'm hooked. Trainer yelled at me last week for going to too many WODs. I was doing 6 a week.

Yeah, you need your rest and recovery. I think I have gone 5x a week only a few times and end up totally utterly exhausted.

Procedural Texture: Yeah, my sister's been trying to make herself do this after more than 26 years of being vegetarian. She has no desire to eat meat, but she genuinely believes that this is a better way to eat, especially cutting out grains.

I'm skeptical. And more importantly, I really don't want creatures to have to die for my meal, and if that means a less than optimum diet I don't have a huge problem with that.

/just past 25 years as a vegetarian
//in before some idiot claims they'll eat 2 animals for every one I don't

Have you ever read the stats on the numbers of warm-blooded animals killed every year in harvesting operations? Not to mention the numbers of animals that starve because of their habitat destruction. I'm not trying to be preachy, but if you think your food choices as a vegetarian are completely consequence-free to the rest of the animal kingdom, you're living in a fool's paradise.

The Southern Dandy: They both have intelligence. Is it because one (the animal) is more like you? That's quite arrogant.

From this logic I assume you're a cannibal.

cynicalbastard Procedural Texture: Yeah, my sister's been trying to make herself do this after more than 26 years of being vegetarian. She has no desire to eat meat, but she genuinely believes that this is a better way to eat, especially cutting out grains.

I'm skeptical. And more importantly, I really don't want creatures to have to die for my meal, and if that means a less than optimum diet I don't have a huge problem with that.

/just past 25 years as a vegetarian
//in before some idiot claims they'll eat 2 animals for every one I don't

Have you ever read the stats on the numbers of warm-blooded animals killed every year in harvesting operations? Not to mention the numbers of animals that starve because of their habitat destruction. I'm not trying to be preachy, but if you think your food choices as a vegetarian are completely consequence-free to the rest of the animal kingdom, you're living in a fool's paradise.

This is all true, but grain fed cattle, poultry, pork, etc. are all fed harvested crops, and require many more harvested crops (and consequent deaths of rodents and habitat destruction) than you would use if you just ate the plants directly. Unless you stick to meats like grass fed beef from pastured cows, this is not a justification for eating meat.

/Not a vegetarian
//Just saying.

edmo The Southern Dandy:

Why do you have a problem eating one living creature and no problem eating another living creature(plant). They're both living. They both have feelings. They both have intelligence. Is it because one (the animal) is more like you? That's quite arrogant.

No life on this planet exists without consuming other life. Patently simple but th saddest thing to ponder. No one can truly be pro-life without dying.


However, there is absolutely no evidence that plants are sentient. Yes, they engage in complex processes, but sentience is not necessary for these processes.

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: I know people who've been doing CrossFit on this diet and look amazing. On the other hand I'm sure being out at five in the morning every day flipping tires in a parking lot has more than just a little bit to do with that.

I lost over 50 lbs, and I didn't increase my physical activity. I'm the same sedentary slug that I've always been. I'm just not eating carbs and fats.

Relatively Obscure: HE DOESN'T EAT LIKE WE DO! GET HIM!

More correctly, he eats like food eats.

We used to microwave, now we just eat nuts and berries.

/you got it, you got it

Paleo diet: Eat whatever you can catch or gather while getting chased by dire wolves. Guaranteed to lose weight!

LMark: cynicalbastard Procedural Texture: Yeah, my sister's been trying to make herself do this after more than 26 years of being vegetarian. She has no desire to eat meat, but she genuinely believes that this is a better way to eat, especially cutting out grains.

I'm skeptical. And more importantly, I really don't want creatures to have to die for my meal, and if that means a less than optimum diet I don't have a huge problem with that.

/just past 25 years as a vegetarian
//in before some idiot claims they'll eat 2 animals for every one I don't

Have you ever read the stats on the numbers of warm-blooded animals killed every year in harvesting operations? Not to mention the numbers of animals that starve because of their habitat destruction. I'm not trying to be preachy, but if you think your food choices as a vegetarian are completely consequence-free to the rest of the animal kingdom, you're living in a fool's paradise.

This is all true, but grain fed cattle, poultry, pork, etc. are all fed harvested crops, and require many more harvested crops (and consequent deaths of rodents and habitat destruction) than you would use if you just ate the plants directly. Unless you stick to meats like grass fed beef from pastured cows, this is not a justification for eating meat.

/Not a vegetarian
//Just saying.

And at least some of us omnivores DO stick to grass-fed beef from pastured cows (as well as wild meats such as grass-fed bison and game)...ironically enough, a lot of us do this explicitly for humane concerns regarding the critters we eat. (Grass-fed cattle are much healthier than grain-fed, and free-range chickens that are allowed to eat bugs and run around like their jungle-fowl ancestors (rather than being cooped up in battery pens) are healthier. They taste better, too, and eggs from free-range chickens allowed to peck at bugs and not just fed on corn also taste a lot better.)

There are some of us omnivores that recognise that to live we take life--plant AND animal--and that if we are going to eat plants and animals we need to make sure that what we ultimately kill and eat lives under humane conditions before its death and we do need to be mindful we are taking life and to have respect for that.

(Yes, I'm one of those freaks who considers plant life just as important and just as worthy of being respected as animal life, thanks. :D There's enough biological evidence out there to note that plants have at least communication and sense levels akin to that of animals; the main difference being that they don't have a single nervous system like chordates, and their "screams" when injured are via chemicals receivable by other plants. There's even evidence that plants, much like birds, have different "chemical alert calls" receivable by not only their species but other plant species, specific for different kinds of predation upon plants. At any rate, it's life, and it's to be respected.)

Of course, I'm also of the opinion that of ethical vegetarians the Jains may well set the example; not only do they not eat meat, they don't eat eggs (being potential life), don't eat plant root-based vegetables (because the process of harvesting kills the plant), strain water so as to make sure they don't accidentally eat or ingest small crustaceans or water insects, won't eat honey (as it's considered violence to bees), don't eat fermented foods (to avoid killing the yeast and/or bacteria involved in the fermentation process), won't eat leftovers (again, to prevent killing innocent yeasts and/or bacteria that may have bred in the meantime) and even have restrictions on cooking at night so as to keep moths from being attracted to flame. Generally they don't consider ethical raising of cattle or goats for milk to be violent, but in areas where factory farming is common some even lean towards veganism if pro-animal-welfare dairies aren't available. (And yes, I do respect them because they recognise plants are alive--hell, they go one step further and are against violence to Saccharomyces cervesiae, Lactobacillus, and Aspergillus oryzae indicating they're against violence to bacteria and fungi. :D)

dittybopper: I lost over 50 lbs, and I didn't increase my physical activity. I'm the same sedentary slug that I've always been. I'm just not eating carbs and fats.

This is the really spectacular part of the diet, I'm learning. Future Mr Mouse and I are going to do the 30 day Paleo challenge together and see how we like it. Sister has been doing nothing but sing its praises. And she looks damn good after being on it too.

Relatively Obscure: dittybopper: More correctly, he eats like food eats.

Seeing as we're all food, so do you.

Nah. I don't generally eat mammalian carnivores or omnivores, though I could if I had to. Generally, if it's a mammal, and it's on my plate, it's eaten a vegan diet.

Of course, in the direst of circumstances, even people are on the menu.

dittybopper: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: I know people who've been doing CrossFit on this diet and look amazing. On the other hand I'm sure being out at five in the morning every day flipping tires in a parking lot has more than just a little bit to do with that.

I lost over 50 lbs, and I didn't increase my physical activity. I'm the same sedentary slug that I've always been. I'm just not eating carbs and fats.

Ok.

Be slightly more sane and don't flip tires at five in the morning then, if you don't want to.

/good for you

Great Porn Dragon
(Yes, I'm one of those freaks who considers plant life just as important and just as worthy of being respected as animal life, thanks. :D There's enough biological evidence out there to note that plants have at least communication and sense levels akin to that of animals; the main difference being that they don't have a single nervous system like chordates, and their "screams" when injured are via chemicals receivable by other plants. There's even evidence that plants, much like birds, have different "chemical alert calls" receivable by not only their species but other plant species, specific for different kinds of predation upon plants. At any rate, it's life, and it's to be respected.)


When a plant is "injured" it produces chemicals as a consequence of the exposure to other chemicals to air, or the rupturing of sacs containing chemicals, or the receipt of chemicals from other plants, or some other automatic process. You could just as easily argue that your skin is sentient (independently of the brain), because of the complex healing process that occurs when you get a cut. This process even happens in quadriplegics if they get a cut that they can't feel. Should I not ride my bike because it's immoral to risk "hurting" my skin? BTW, by your logic (treating plants as equal to animals) we should also treat animals, and plants, as equal to humans. The only logical step to take would be to encourage the mass extinction of the human race. i suspect this is not a movement you would support (if you a member of VHEMT, I take that back). I don't support it either, but that's because I do recognize a heirarchy: humans ----> vertebrates and cephlopods ------> other animals ----> plants. W/o that heirarchy, you cannot justify the continued existence of the human race.