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(Telegraph)   London Police have a secret fleet of surveillance aircraft   (telegraph.co.uk) divider line 77
    More: Scary, Met Police, spy planes, eavesdropping  
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9903 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Oct 2011 at 10:30 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-10-30 04:53:48 PM
And they're using them to spy on protesters? Don't the citizens of the British isles have any laws to protect them from warrantless surveillance? England is truly morphing into a police state when the metropolitan police can get approval to spend so much money on high tech surveillance equipment to film and eavesdrop on civilians at random.
 
2011-10-30 05:03:26 PM
why would a government feel the need to build something like this...?
 
2011-10-30 05:32:01 PM
i105.photobucket.com
 
2011-10-30 05:56:13 PM
Not so secret anymore, are they?


FloydA: [i105.photobucket.com image 640x480]


www.swiftpublishers.com
 
2011-10-30 06:12:02 PM

Weaver95: why would a government feel the need to build something like this...?


You could ask Houston, Texas (new window).
 
2011-10-30 08:17:18 PM

Weaver95: why would a government feel the need to build something like this...?


It's obvious, mang. To take care of the population and keep them from harm. It's all for their safety and convenience.
 
2011-10-30 09:11:40 PM
What the hell is a Cessna F04?
 
2011-10-30 09:39:10 PM

fusillade762: Not so secret anymore, are they?



i105.photobucket.com

 
2011-10-30 10:37:00 PM
im watching you, watching me...ooooo, oooooo
 
2011-10-30 10:37:05 PM
 
2011-10-30 10:44:25 PM
How'd that work out for em in 05 with the London bombings?

Stay classy, Nanny state.
 
2011-10-30 10:47:32 PM

Weaver95: why would a government feel the need to build something like this...?


US has had this technology since at least 1982, we use Beech 1900s and other planes in that class for the US Army and RC-135 Rivet Joint for the USAF.

First known use was to get back General Dozer in '82, also used in Panama, Somalia, in the hunt for Escobar in Columbia, Saddam, Gaddafi, who know who else.

I'm sure if the ballon had gone up in Europe with the Soviets, planes like this would be used to isolate mobile command and control nodes to hit Soviet leadership with PGMs, a better question to "why would a government feel the need to build this" is "why wouldn't a government build this?"
 
2011-10-30 10:47:43 PM
They're really ramping up those TV license enforcement schemes, aren't they?
 
2011-10-30 10:49:55 PM
JAFO
 
2011-10-30 10:51:48 PM
Yeah, but still, the bloody bobbies don't carry guns, so not all that scary, i'nit?

www.fpv.lt
 
2011-10-30 10:52:40 PM
Cessna 404 perhaps?
 
2011-10-30 10:54:05 PM

sheilanagig: And they're using them to spy on protesters? Don't the citizens of the British isles have any laws to protect them from warrantless surveillance? England is truly morphing into a police state when the metropolitan police can get approval to spend so much money on high tech surveillance equipment to film and eavesdrop on civilians at random.


No.

That's why America was invented.
 
2011-10-30 10:55:46 PM
After RTFA I'm not sure which is worse... that London now has a fleet of spybot planes, or that they were apparently purchased by a criminal who was jailed (for only 7 years) after committing millions of pounds of theft and not found afterwards.

Just... wow.
 
2011-10-30 10:57:24 PM
The joys of living in a socialist police state
 
2011-10-30 11:01:11 PM
And just like the invasion of France by Nazi Germany, the people of Britain are shocked!
Please.
 
2011-10-30 11:06:01 PM
Here comes a chopper to chop off your head.
 
2011-10-30 11:10:46 PM
In England, the local police do it.
In the US, the Feds do it.

Not really sure which is scarier.
 
2011-10-30 11:14:23 PM

Gyrfalcon: sheilanagig: And they're using them to spy on protesters? Don't the citizens of the British isles have any laws to protect them from warrantless surveillance? England is truly morphing into a police state when the metropolitan police can get approval to spend so much money on high tech surveillance equipment to film and eavesdrop on civilians at random.

No.

That's why America was invented.


- I've smoked weed in front of (and with) on-duty cops many times in England and elsewhere in the UK. Try that over here :-)
- I only ever got one ticket in 10 years of fairly enthusiastic driving back home, but about 1 per year in Texas.
- UK cops rarely kill anyone, regardless of their skin colour
- Police abuses and brutality do happen, but are far less common than in the USA, and cops are required to obey the law and held accountable if they don't ... you'll never see a British cop car speeding with the lights off
- There are about a quarter of the number of cops per capita, because they don't do bullshiat stuff like ticketing people where its safe to speed, or busting stoners

UK policing is a bit over the top on street surveillance cameras, but candidly it's more of a waste of money than an intrusion, and they are far less jackbooted. I'll take the trade-off thank-you.
 
2011-10-30 11:15:58 PM
Let's get the Top Gear boys to take a crack at coming up with a low cost replacement. The result will almost certainly be completely useless, but it'll probably be entertaining as hell to watch them try.
 
2011-10-30 11:24:02 PM

ParaHandy: Gyrfalcon: sheilanagig: And they're using them to spy on protesters? Don't the citizens of the British isles have any laws to protect them from warrantless surveillance? England is truly morphing into a police state when the metropolitan police can get approval to spend so much money on high tech surveillance equipment to film and eavesdrop on civilians at random.

No.

That's why America was invented.

- I've smoked weed in front of (and with) on-duty cops many times in England and elsewhere in the UK. Try that over here :-)


Yes, it is well-known there is no respect for law in Europe.

- I only ever got one ticket in 10 years of fairly enthusiastic driving back home, but about 1 per year in Texas.

We have 40,000 people killed every year in the US from auto accidents. I hate getting tickets, but hard to argue I have the right to drive 100.

- UK cops rarely kill anyone, regardless of their skin colour

They don't carry guns or face anywhere near the violence US cops do.

- Police abuses and brutality do happen, but are far less common than in the USA, and cops are required to obey the law and held accountable if they don't ... you'll never see a British cop car speeding with the lights off

That cop was arrested and sure to be fired. US cops are held accountable when they get caught breaking the law.

- There are about a quarter of the number of cops per capita, because they don't do bullshiat stuff like ticketing people where its safe to speed, or busting stoners

You have less violent crime, so you need less cops. I agree drug enforcement is generally an utter waste of time and money.

UK policing is a bit over the top on street surveillance cameras, but candidly it's more of a waste of money than an intrusion, and they are far less jackbooted. I'll take the trade-off thank-you.

Europe is lawless. You have "riot police." Not police called in for overtime for demonstrations, actual police working full time to stand around and let people riot. It means riots are OK and people can throw Molotov cocktails with impunity. Utter decadence and lawlessness.
 
2011-10-30 11:24:45 PM

ParaHandy: Gyrfalcon: sheilanagig: And they're using them to spy on protesters? Don't the citizens of the British isles have any laws to protect them from warrantless surveillance? England is truly morphing into a police state when the metropolitan police can get approval to spend so much money on high tech surveillance equipment to film and eavesdrop on civilians at random.

No.

That's why America was invented.

- I've smoked weed in front of (and with) on-duty cops many times in England and elsewhere in the UK. Try that over here :-)
- I only ever got one ticket in 10 years of fairly enthusiastic driving back home, but about 1 per year in Texas.
- UK cops rarely kill anyone, regardless of their skin colour
- Police abuses and brutality do happen, but are far less common than in the USA, and cops are required to obey the law and held accountable if they don't ... you'll never see a British cop car speeding with the lights off
- There are about a quarter of the number of cops per capita, because they don't do bullshiat stuff like ticketing people where its safe to speed, or busting stoners

UK policing is a bit over the top on street surveillance cameras, but candidly it's more of a waste of money than an intrusion, and they are far less jackbooted. I'll take the trade-off thank-you.


I wasn't comparing which was better. I was just responding to the fact that your polite, not-brutal, not-abusive cops still have the right to kick in your door and rummage through your personal property if they like, without any particular reason.

I'm glad they DON'T feel the need; but you might look at some people's response to the recent riots before you start feeling too secure in your non-regulated police. Cops don't act on their own, they merely reflect the intent of the people they serve; and if the majority of the people want a minority of the people treated like dirt, then surprisingly enough, the cops are happy to oblige.
 
2011-10-30 11:26:59 PM

Gyrfalcon: sheilanagig: And they're using them to spy on protesters? Don't the citizens of the British isles have any laws to protect them from warrantless surveillance? England is truly morphing into a police state when the metropolitan police can get approval to spend so much money on high tech surveillance equipment to film and eavesdrop on civilians at random.

No.

That's why America was invented.


Bahahahahahaha!

Oh, that's funny.
 
2011-10-30 11:29:11 PM

StanTheMan: US cops are held accountable when they get caught breaking the law.


See my previous response to Gyrfalcon.
 
2011-10-30 11:34:48 PM
The vans weren't good enough, so now they have cat detector planes, too?
 
2011-10-30 11:36:33 PM
www.wired.com

How did that happen?

www.logodesignlove.com

Ahhhh.
 
2011-10-30 11:37:20 PM

fusillade762: Not so secret anymore, are they?


FloydA: [i105.photobucket.com image 640x480]

[www.swiftpublishers.com image 500x352]


Exactly what I thought.
 
2011-10-30 11:37:27 PM
Well I guess the uk govt has figured out that you can't tax people for every dime they have if you don't know how much they have.
 
2011-10-30 11:42:54 PM

StanTheMan: US cops are held accountable when they get caught breaking the law.


BAHAHAHAHAHA

You actually believe that?

Maybe if they PUBLICLY get caught BY ANOTHER AGENCY doing something BLATANTLY illegal outside of their jurisdiction, they MIGHT face some jail time - like the NYC cops recently caught by the FBI running guns. Otherwise, they're pretty much above the law.

If you catch one ON TAPE doing something illegal or abusing his authority, the worst possible outcome for the cop is getting fired. (That's assuming YOU don't get thrown in jail for pointing a camera at the cops in the first place) In the rare event the DA presses charges and the case does go to trial, the legions of copsuckers who infest the jury pool will insure that he's never convicted.
 
2011-10-30 11:45:48 PM
When they kick in your front door
How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or the trigger of your gun?
 
2011-10-30 11:53:24 PM
If they're those silent helicopters we've been hearing so much about, I'll chip in and help buy one for the local PD so they don't drive me completely insane when they're endlessly circling my neighborhood looking for some miscreant.
 
2011-10-30 11:54:50 PM

StarshipAngel: The vans weren't good enough, so now they have cat detector planes, too?


The loonie detector planes.
 
2011-10-30 11:55:45 PM

some_beer_drinker: im watching you, watching me...ooooo, oooooo


I always feel like
Somebody's watching me
And I have no privacy
 
2011-10-30 11:56:21 PM

Gyrfalcon: That's why America was invented.


Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Oh wait, you're serious. Let me laugh even harder.
 
2011-10-30 11:58:23 PM
1984 was not as much "1984" as 2011 is "1984"

Surveillance and Control is one of the doorstops of most governments.

Aldous Huxley cries while Bin Ladin dances
 
2011-10-31 12:11:35 AM

CaptainWes: Gyrfalcon: That's why America was invented.

Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Oh wait, you're serious. Let me laugh even harder.


If you don't like it here, you can always leave.

And if you're not already here, then STFU and go someplace more congenial to your tastes. I hear Somalia is lovely this time of year.
 
2011-10-31 12:58:36 AM

StanTheMan:

That cop was arrested and sure to be fired. US cops are held accountable when they get caught breaking the law.
.


Yeah, and Katy Perry gave me a beej in the Dairy Queen parking lot.
 
2011-10-31 01:01:55 AM

cmb53208: Yeah, and Katy Perry gave me a beej in the Dairy Queen parking lot.


Really?
 
2011-10-31 01:12:27 AM

sheilanagig: And they're using them to spy on protesters? Don't the citizens of the British isles have any laws to protect them from warrantless surveillance? England is truly morphing into a police state when the metropolitan police can get approval to spend so much money on high tech surveillance equipment to film and eavesdrop on civilians at random.


Pretty sure you do not need a warrant for surveillance if the subject(s) is out in public (such as walking down the street).
 
2011-10-31 01:15:48 AM

ParaHandy: Gyrfalcon: sheilanagig: And they're using them to spy on protesters? Don't the citizens of the British isles have any laws to protect them from warrantless surveillance? England is truly morphing into a police state when the metropolitan police can get approval to spend so much money on high tech surveillance equipment to film and eavesdrop on civilians at random.

No.

That's why America was invented.

- I've smoked weed in front of (and with) on-duty cops many times in England and elsewhere in the UK. Try that over here :-)
- I only ever got one ticket in 10 years of fairly enthusiastic driving back home, but about 1 per year in Texas.
- UK cops rarely kill anyone, regardless of their skin colour
- Police abuses and brutality do happen, but are far less common than in the USA, and cops are required to obey the law and held accountable if they don't ... you'll never see a British cop car speeding with the lights off
- There are about a quarter of the number of cops per capita, because they don't do bullshiat stuff like ticketing people where its safe to speed, or busting stoners

UK policing is a bit over the top on street surveillance cameras, but candidly it's more of a waste of money than an intrusion, and they are far less jackbooted. I'll take the trade-off thank-you.


I saw a program on TV about the camera system in London and they showed one case where the guys monitoring the cameras saw a woman walking down the street alone at night and some guy in her vicinity who was acting suspiciously and seemed to be following her. A police car was dispatched to drive by but before it got there the guy rushed the woman and dragged her off into some bushes. Before he could rape her the cops showed up and arrested the guy. I am sure that she would say that the system was not a waste of money.

/Not trying to start an argument for or against anything. Just bringing up an interesting example.
 
2011-10-31 01:17:57 AM

Weaver95: why would a government feel the need to build something like this...?


We've got 'em too. There's a small but intriguing fleet of Cessnas with what amounts to a flying cell phone tower, they can divert calls through the plane's cell. Also has this nifty phase detection trick with an antenna array so they can get a location even if you have disabled or spoofed the gps.

Originally, we had them 'elsewhere' but I've seen a number of news stories about mysterious Cessnas just orbiting around areas of US cities, which would fit, so I guess they're deployed here too, although they should be able to get the same feeds through the CALEA links. I guess it's more straightforward than getting warrants.
 
2011-10-31 01:22:34 AM

clovis69: US has had this technology since at least 1982, we use Beech 1900s and other planes in that class for the US Army and RC-135 Rivet Joint for the USAF.

First known use was to get back General Dozer in '82, also used in Panama, Somalia, in the hunt for Escobar in Columbia, Saddam, Gaddafi, who know who else.


That. Only it's been refined a bit, and you don't need Echoes to do ridealongs to "educate the LEO"/operate the equipment like you used to.
 
2011-10-31 01:24:41 AM

Mock26: Pretty sure you do not need a warrant for surveillance if the subject(s) is out in public (such as walking down the street).


And yet I seem to remember hearing something about how the police in the US have something like six blocks that they can follow you in a vehicle before they have to shiat or get off the pot. That, if true, means that there are limits to what they can do even if you are in public.

I also worked once at a CCTV monitoring station in the London area, and I remember there were limits to what you could look at and for how long at the time. Of course, I remember wondering if the goings on behind the black blocked-out windows of apartments was being recorded to disk anyway, available to somebody.
 
2011-10-31 01:28:35 AM

sheilanagig: Mock26: Pretty sure you do not need a warrant for surveillance if the subject(s) is out in public (such as walking down the street).

And yet I seem to remember hearing something about how the police in the US have something like six blocks that they can follow you in a vehicle before they have to shiat or get off the pot. That, if true, means that there are limits to what they can do even if you are in public.

I also worked once at a CCTV monitoring station in the London area, and I remember there were limits to what you could look at and for how long at the time. Of course, I remember wondering if the goings on behind the black blocked-out windows of apartments was being recorded to disk anyway, available to somebody.


And what if the vehicle is stopped?
 
2011-10-31 01:31:35 AM

Mock26: And what if the vehicle is stopped?


Then they have to abide by constitutional rights which prohibit unreasonable search and seizure. This is why people are having such a fit about the police in NYC stopping people at random and forcing them to turn out their pockets, etc. (Before OWS was even a glimmer in somebody's eye). If the car is stopped and the officer does not have a warrant, ie. reasonable cause to think that a crime is being committed, they have no right to search that car or insist that locked areas of the car like the trunk or glove compartment be opened to make them available for search.
 
2011-10-31 01:33:08 AM

sheilanagig: Mock26: And what if the vehicle is stopped?

Then they have to abide by constitutional rights which prohibit unreasonable search and seizure. This is why people are having such a fit about the police in NYC stopping people at random and forcing them to turn out their pockets, etc. (Before OWS was even a glimmer in somebody's eye). If the car is stopped and the officer does not have a warrant, ie. reasonable cause to think that a crime is being committed, they have no right to search that car or insist that locked areas of the car like the trunk or glove compartment be opened to make them available for search.


Think of it this way, the police are kind of like vampires in the sense that you have to invite them in, or agree to let them search the vehicle when they ask. You don't have to agree to it, but if you do and they find something, you've done it to yourself.
 
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