As i understand it, there was a LOT of input from US evangelicials that helped form Uganda's anti-gay legislation.

Being gay is a choice. These people are fleeing their homes and families in a desperate attempt to not be horrifically brutalized to death by their own government and society because they don't want to make the choice to be straight. Right?

wyltoknow: Being gay is a choice. These people are fleeing their homes and families in a desperate attempt to not be horrifically brutalized to death by their own government and society because they don't want to make the choice to be straight. Right?

You do know that your entire argument relies upon the premise that it is a choice and you have not proved the premise yet, therefore the entire argument is invalid. In other words, you just made a definition argument and not proven the definition. (Example: Clowns are evil, Why would anyone want to be a clown voluntarily unless they are evil?)

In order to validate your argument, You would need to prove your premise that it is a choice. I would recommend using any peer-reviewed psychology journal articles that proves this premise.

CrispFlows: In order to validate your argument, you would need to prove your premise that it is a choice. I would recommend using any peer-reviewed psychology journal articles that proves this premise.

She's being sarcastic. I believe the "Right?" at the end of her post proved that.

Weaver95: As i understand it, there was a LOT of input from US evangelicials that helped form Uganda's anti-gay legislation.

Yes, yes there was. The Family (new window)

Copper Spork: That's democracy for you. The majority has decided that being gay should be punishable by imprisonment and death, so it's only fair that it is. Same as how smoking a bit of weed gets you locked up in the USA.

There's a reason we have protections in the constitution against the tyranny of the majority. Our country isn't perfect, but it's better than any others out there at long-term protection - I can't think of a single civil rights battle that has been *lost* in this country in the long term.

They should flee to the United States, claiming refugee status. Teach those evangelicals a lesson.

Africans? In me ganda?

It's more likely thank you think.

*than

^{/dammitsomuch}

wyltoknow: Being gay is a choice. These people are fleeing their homes and families in a desperate attempt to not be horrifically brutalized to death by their own government and society because they don't want to make the choice to be straight. Right?

NM, I just realized you were sarcastic.

NEDM: You would be correct. In fact, said evangelicals actually lobbied the Ugandan government to pass that legislation.

Those motherfarking abominations are not worthy of being called living filth.

I'm not sure I like the idea of US evangelical organizations actively lobbying third world countries to create horrifically oppressive theocratic laws. I don't think we could stop either.

Best I can think of is to just tell the truth - that laws like this one in Uganda are what the evangelicals want to see eventually here in the US. They're using the third world to beta test their ideas for a new theocracy.

Thisbymaster: wyltoknow: Being gay is a choice. These people are fleeing their homes and families in a desperate attempt to not be horrifically brutalized to death by their own government and society because they don't want to make the choice to be straight. Right?

I would like to know how anyone knows these people are gay in the first place. If they go around telling everyone they are gay in a anti-gay environment then I must questions their sanity.

They don't. What does happen is that various yellow journalist publications put out lists of people suspected to be gay, along with open calls for the lynching of said people. It wouldn't surprise me if many of those people turned out not to be gay at all, and were targeted for merely being sympathetic towards gay rights etc.

LDM90: Your sarcasm detector is broken.

fariasrv: She's being sarcastic. I believe the "Right?" at the end of her post proved that.

Clearly, My detector is broken.

Thisbymaster: I would like to know how anyone knows these people are gay in the first place. If they go around telling everyone they are gay in a anti-gay environment then I must questions their sanity.

It doesn't necessarily involve telling "everyone" - just those close enough. And all it takes is a single slip to get busted; look at how many people were thrown out of the military under DADT for doing things in seclusion.

rev. dave: Fundamentalism in any form is dangerous and immoral.

While I do agree with you, it would be ...

Oh I give up, I'll try to ignore claims without any backup that follows the claim and deem them as opinions.

/ Because that's how weak the argument becomes.

ultraholland: I know there are good religious people out there; I've met them. But it's shiat like this that pushes me ever so closer to being completely anti-religious.

Don't blame the religion for the assholes.

NEDM: You're speaking to one, or at least I hope I am. That said, you won't find me defending those abominations. Whatever scorn you feel, they have earned a thousandfold. Any church that actually funded that mission should have its tax-exempt status revoked yesterday.

Indeed. Of course, my church is involved in politics, and is being *very* careful about how we approach it in regards to preaching - we don't say "You must vote this way!", we say "these are the issues you are talking about, and our stances on each. Make up your own mind."

Uganda, Somollia, Saudi Arabia, Detroit....Texas.... Kids. Uhm gather around for a second. Now listen children I have some important wisdom to impart on you all. There comes a time in some places where things change, HARD. Where its not only not like how you remember it, but its not like how you picture it being safe. Where the society seems to have suddenly been taken over by The Joker or it seems like the locals are trying to reenact The Hand Maidens tale as a system of Govt. Now if you find yourself in such a place one day, and the signs should be pretty obviuos......Run. I know i know its cowardly, and its not the way the world works..but serriously, pack yer shiat, grab your kids and RUN. No dont look back, you wont like what you see. Burn your bridges and run.

Now if its any comfort, you can live in your new surroundings comfortably knowing that where you left will likely end up in flames someday. Because entropy can only last so long before it burns itself out and some semblence of order grows.

/Sane people have no place in 90% of Africa. Sane is a minority.

NEDM: No doubt. It is scary to think we are watching them try to implement a theocracy here, but I'm glad that the First Amendment has put a stop to them for now.

that's the only conclusion I can come too - that the US evangelicals are using africa as beta test sites for their form of theocratic regime change. they're hammering out the details and techniques there, and when the theocrats feel they're ready, they'll start using what they've learned in africa here in the USA.

thing of it is...the US isn't a 'christian nation'. it's not going to work the way they want.

NEDM: HEY FUNDIE IDIOTS! You want to know why the ACLU fights so hard to enforce the separation of church and state? Because of things like this!

They know! Why do you think they hate the ACLU so much?

StrangeQ: Yep. Gotta love a system based on the indefensible assumption that the majority will always be right. Democracy? I'll take a Rationality.

At least with Democracy, there's a way to recover. Make bad laws? Elect the wrong people? Change it in the next election.

Christian Bale: The "gay is a choice" people are seriously weird...so according to them, every man is straight, but some choose to go against their natural inclinations, so they can...be persecuted? be unhappy since they'd really rather be with women? give a big "fark you" to the world?

Someone should ask them, "ok, you are straight, right? Can you possibly imagine *choosing* to be gay for any reason?" If they say no, then they go against their own argument. If they say yes, then they're practically coming out.

Exception Collection: It doesn't necessarily involve telling "everyone" - just those close enough. And all it takes is a single slip to get busted; look at how many people were thrown out of the military under DADT for doing things in seclusion.

It probably doesn't even take that much. Probably all it takes is some asshat getting pissed off at his neighbor for some stupid reason and then telling the authorities he heard his neighbor likes to suck cock. Of course, it doesn't matter if it's true or not.