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(Mediabistro)   A band of Marine brothers storm Reddit to voice their anger at the life-threatening injury inflicted by Oakland police on their brother, 24-year-old Iraqi war veteran Scott Olsen   (mediabistro.com) divider line 919
    More: Followup, Scott Olsen, selfishness, Iraqis, Iraq War, Oakland  
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21796 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Oct 2011 at 2:17 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-10-28 03:05:51 PM  

MagicD: Cythraul:
One would hope. But our military, like any military, is very nationalistic and patriotic. I couldn't see them doing anything short of defending the establishment.

You obviously don't know one farking thing about our military, so do us all a favor and keep your retarded judgments to yourself.

/vet


Awww, did I hurt your feelings?
 
2011-10-28 03:06:04 PM  

haterade: guess he should have learned how to duck after a tour in the box. maybe he'll learn that he should have dispersed after being ordered by the police


[www.mediabistro.com image 640x480]

does not look like a marine

/hot


I know, I can't see the uniform or the gun. I just trust that it is there.
 
2011-10-28 03:06:07 PM  

dothemath: Noticeably F.A.T.: dothemath: But the people down there shiatting in the streets and smoking weed do not represent me.

I kinda doubt they are the majority, but 'Clean-Cut Sane Man Makes Reasonable Argument' doesn't sell papers quite like 'Dirty Hippie Pops A Squat On A Cop Car'. And as long as asshats are taking shiats in public you aren't going to see any rational people on the news.

Im sure the street shiatters do not represent the majority but it certainly doesnt help their image. I think that a lot of people are just looking for an excuse to go yell in the street.
I dont have time for that shiat because im trying to hold on to the job im lucky to have for as long as possible.


What you said.
 
2011-10-28 03:06:25 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: The best way to defend our freedom is to vote every damned last congressman and senator out of office and replace them with decent human beings, and then demand that the legalized bribery of our government is once again outlawed. Short of that, nothing is going to change.


You mean camping in public parks isn't a good way to influence public policy? Who would have guessed?
 
2011-10-28 03:06:28 PM  

Aigoo: haterade: guess he should have learned how to duck after a tour in the box. maybe he'll learn that he should have dispersed after being ordered by the police

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

To explain why the bolded parts are important and why they were written:

The "right of the people to peaceably assemble" was frequently violated by the British in the years leading up to the American Revolution, as efforts were made to ensure that radical colonists would not be able to foment a revolutionary movement. The Bill of Rights, written as it was by revolutionaries, was intended to prevent the government from restricting future social movements.

Petitions were a more powerful tool in the revolutionary era than they are today, as they were the only direct means of "redressing ... grievances" against the government; the idea of pursuing lawsuits against unconstitutional legislation was not feasible in 1789. This being the case, the right to petition was essential to the integrity of the United States. Without it, disgruntled citizens would have no recourse but armed revolution.

OWS is, specifically, one of those "future social movements" addressed very specifically by the First Amendment that Marines like Olsen and soldiers like myself wore that uniform to defend. We gave up significant portions of our lives during which we did not have that right because while we wore that uniform, we willingly gave up that right so that jackholes like you could say and do stupid shiat such as what is quoted in the above comment, proving you haven't the first farkin clue what your rights are. People like you deserve to get hit in the head with tear gas canisters while your rights are systematically stripped from you because you don't give a shiat that Oakland PD, NYPD and others take them from you due to your ignorant apathy and blatant stupidity.

The only reason any of these protests are turning into riots is because city and state police are blatantly ignoring the Constitution - the supreme LAW of the land. Want to biatch about the rule of law, maybe you should read up on it. Soldiers and Marines do, which is why we're so farking pissed off about this shiat - because the people who are supposed to be enforcing it are not. They're enforcing... something else entirely.

Are there people stirring up trouble? Absolutely. Every crowd has bad apples. But these police blatantly violated the farking Constitution more than once, and they did it as people on scene were trying to render aid to an injured man who is now in a medically induced coma. You wanna throw shiat on someone, throw it on them, because that's where it belongs.


The police successfully petitioned Congress to establish a law that infringed on our rights to peacefully assemble? Weird, why wasn't that in the article?
 
2011-10-28 03:07:23 PM  

DontMakeMeComeBackThere: HOWEVER - the Oakland police did not try to kill this guy with a teargas canister - it WAS an an accident, one they should pay for, but an accident none-the-less. Also, I'm unaware what part the banks has in injuring this guy - but we've got people ready to roll the ENTIRE OWS wish-list into this story. I'm sorry, but that is bullshiat.


Did you even watch the farkin' video? After he was hit in the head and laying on the ground unconscious and bleeding several protesters went to help him. A police officer then underhand lobbed a flashbang right on top of the guy, exacerbating not only his injuries, but the situation in general. He needs to be identified, fired, and jailed.

Link to video with the cop highlighted. (new window)
 
2011-10-28 03:07:33 PM  

Walker: Read all the idiotic comments below the article there.


I just came in to say this. I read about two pages of the comments and I had to check 3 times to make sure it wasn't a fox affiliate news site.
 
2011-10-28 03:07:34 PM  

fark_your_mudder: The outcome of the events is certainly regrettable, but it's not like the gas can was purposely aimed at his face. When there's hundreds of people milling about, it's not surprising that a projectile fired into the crowd might hit someone. They were told that chemical agents would be used if they didn't disperse. Also, I don't see how the fact that he's a vet has anything to do with it, other than to inflame passions. Would there be the same outrage if it was just any other protester, or would it just be "lol, look at this hippie who got nailed"?


I haven't been paying a huge amount of attention to this, but I did watch the short video where the guy was injured. The cops waited until a big crowd had gathered around the injured Marine, then threw the projectile right into the middle of them. It looked like it couldn't have gotten any closer to the guy's head if the cops had aimed for him.

I really doubt it was an accidental bulls-eye. it was perfect.
 
2011-10-28 03:08:00 PM  
i180.photobucket.com
 
2011-10-28 03:08:02 PM  

SkinnyHead: cameroncrazy1984: SkinnyHead: Vodka Zombie: SkinnyHead: Marines are required to obey the law just like everyone else. If they participate in a riot in violation of the law, they deserve what they get, just like everyone else.

Is it fun to call it a riot?

I mean, it's kind of a stretch to do so, and it's wildly dishonest, but I want to know if it's fun.

Protesters were throwing rocks and bottles at police. That's a riot.

Yeah! Even when there was no evidence at all that this happened!

If it did happen, if protesters were throwing rocks and bottles at police, would you agree that it was a riot?


And if a pixie decided to wave a magic wand and turn you into something other than a complete farking moron would you agree that it was a fairy tale?

Your response to: 'there's no evidence' is 'but if there were evidence then the evidence would speak for itself'.

The way you say it, it sounds as if, next time, if there is a next time and I pray that there isn't, a situation like this arrives, that perhaps someone should do it to justify a police response to crack skulls.

That's beyond weapons grade derp, that's some form of theoretical quantum derp that scientists are just finding out out about.
 
2011-10-28 03:08:09 PM  

SkinnyHead: cameroncrazy1984: SkinnyHead: If it did happen, if protesters were throwing rocks and bottles at police, would you agree that it was a riot

Obviously, but unless you have multiple sourced citations, (or, better yet, video) then it didn't happen.

The police claim that protesters threw rock and bottles and other things at them. Are you saying that the police are lying about that?


Yeah, the police would never coverup something by lying about who provoked the incident. Are you saying you don't have any evidence other than "the guy who shot him claims they were throwing bottles"?
 
2011-10-28 03:08:13 PM  

FarkinHostile: All Veterans and active service members, do you remember this little oath we took? :

"I, FarkingHostile, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."


What is your point with this, exactly?
Yes, I think it is important. But I don't see any enemies of the United States in OWS or the Tea Party. Just people you may disagree with politically.
Their voice and their right to express it, willfully taken up by the people also makes them Real Americans (tm).
 
2011-10-28 03:08:46 PM  
I'm just waiting for Jon Stewart to tell me what to think about this.
 
2011-10-28 03:08:52 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: The best way to defend our freedom is to vote every damned last congressman and senator out of office and replace them with decent human beings, and then demand that the legalized bribery of our government is once again outlawed. Short of that, nothing is going to change.


where are these "decent people" you speak of. seriously, are they in a cage in your basement?
 
2011-10-28 03:09:25 PM  

fark_your_mudder: Aigoo: haterade: guess he should have learned how to duck after a tour in the box. maybe he'll learn that he should have dispersed after being ordered by the police

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

To explain why the bolded parts are important and why they were written:

The "right of the people to peaceably assemble" was frequently violated by the British in the years leading up to the American Revolution, as efforts were made to ensure that radical colonists would not be able to foment a revolutionary movement. The Bill of Rights, written as it was by revolutionaries, was intended to prevent the government from restricting future social movements.

Petitions were a more powerful tool in the revolutionary era than they are today, as they were the only direct means of "redressing ... grievances" against the government; the idea of pursuing lawsuits against unconstitutional legislation was not feasible in 1789. This being the case, the right to petition was essential to the integrity of the United States. Without it, disgruntled citizens would have no recourse but armed revolution.

OWS is, specifically, one of those "future social movements" addressed very specifically by the First Amendment that Marines like Olsen and soldiers like myself wore that uniform to defend. We gave up significant portions of our lives during which we did not have that right because while we wore that uniform, we willingly gave up that right so that jackholes like you could say and do stupid shiat such as what is quoted in the above comment, proving you haven't the first farkin clue what your rights are. People like you deserve to get hit in the head with tear gas canisters while your rights are systematically stripped from you because you don't give a shiat that Oakland PD, NYPD and others take them from you due to your ignorant apathy and blatant stupidity.

The only reason any of these protests are turning into riots is because city and state police are blatantly ignoring the Constitution - the supreme LAW of the land. Want to biatch about the rule of law, maybe you should read up on it. Soldiers and Marines do, which is why we're so farking pissed off about this shiat - because the people who are supposed to be enforcing it are not. They're enforcing... something else entirely.

Are there people stirring up trouble? Absolutely. Every crowd has bad apples. But these police blatantly violated the farking Constitution more than once, and they did it as people on scene were trying to render aid to an injured man who is now in a medically induced coma. You wanna throw shiat on someone, throw it on them, because that's where it belongs.

The police successfully petitioned Congress to establish a law that infringed on our rights to peacefully assemble? Weird, why wasn't that in the article?


Weird, that was kinda my point. ;)
 
2011-10-28 03:10:03 PM  

Brainz: DontMakeMeComeBackThere: HOWEVER - the Oakland police did not try to kill this guy with a teargas canister - it WAS an an accident, one they should pay for, but an accident none-the-less. Also, I'm unaware what part the banks has in injuring this guy - but we've got people ready to roll the ENTIRE OWS wish-list into this story. I'm sorry, but that is bullshiat.

Did you even watch the farkin' video? After he was hit in the head and laying on the ground unconscious and bleeding several protesters went to help him. A police officer then underhand lobbed a flashbang right on top of the guy, exacerbating not only his injuries, but the situation in general. He needs to be identified, fired, and jailed.

Link to video with the cop highlighted. (new window)


Holy crap. I've never even seen this vid. At first I thought maybe it was some misunderstanding between both sides. But nope, that video makes it pretty clear.
 
2011-10-28 03:10:39 PM  

doubled99: I'm just waiting for Jon Stewart to tell me what to think about this.


Good for you, I guess. Most people tend to think for themselves though.

::shrug::
 
2011-10-28 03:10:41 PM  

tinyarena: TheMega: REDDIT
mikaloyd: Reddit
Person: Reddit
ThisNameSux: reddit
Barbigazi: Reddit

Oh well, since Reddit covered it already I guess there's no reason to discuss it further.
So, wadda you wanna do now?


Let's go ride bikes!
 
2011-10-28 03:10:53 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: SkinnyHead: cameroncrazy1984: SkinnyHead: If it did happen, if protesters were throwing rocks and bottles at police, would you agree that it was a riot

Obviously, but unless you have multiple sourced citations, (or, better yet, video) then it didn't happen.

The police claim that protesters threw rock and bottles and other things at them. Are you saying that the police are lying about that?

Yeah, the police would never coverup something by lying about who provoked the incident. Are you saying you don't have any evidence other than "the guy who shot him claims they were throwing bottles"?


And people looking to push an agenda would never exaggerate their own peacefulness while playing up the aggressiveness of the cops either.
 
2011-10-28 03:11:04 PM  

cryinoutloud: fark_your_mudder: The outcome of the events is certainly regrettable, but it's not like the gas can was purposely aimed at his face. When there's hundreds of people milling about, it's not surprising that a projectile fired into the crowd might hit someone. They were told that chemical agents would be used if they didn't disperse. Also, I don't see how the fact that he's a vet has anything to do with it, other than to inflame passions. Would there be the same outrage if it was just any other protester, or would it just be "lol, look at this hippie who got nailed"?

I haven't been paying a huge amount of attention to this, but I did watch the short video where the guy was injured. The cops waited until a big crowd had gathered around the injured Marine, then threw the projectile right into the middle of them. It looked like it couldn't have gotten any closer to the guy's head if the cops had aimed for him.

I really doubt it was an accidental bulls-eye. it was perfect.


But that's not the one that felled him, that was a secondary one that you can see hitting the ground and exploding. It's the first one fired that injured the guy. The second one was clearly intentional, but again, I don't know what protocol is for these situations. If the guy who fired the second shot violated protocol, then he should be held accountable. If that's standard practice, then he's not at fault. We don't know for sure if he knew there was a man down, maybe he just saw a group of people huddling close by and thought they were plotting something. I'm not defending it, we just don't have all the facts.
 
2011-10-28 03:11:15 PM  

doubled99: I'm just waiting for Jon Stewart to tell me what to think about this.


Jon Stewart is Fox News, now? I didn't know that making jokes about the news is "telling you what to think," now.
 
2011-10-28 03:11:35 PM  

Brainz: Link to video with the cop highlighted. (new window)


That one cop, for sure, needs to go down.
 
2011-10-28 03:11:37 PM  

mynameisdouglas: FarkinHostile: All Veterans and active service members, do you remember this little oath we took? :

"I, FarkingHostile, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."


What is your point with this, exactly?
Yes, I think it is important. But I don't see any enemies of the United States in OWS or the Tea Party. Just people you may disagree with politically.
Their voice and their right to express it, willfully taken up by the people also makes them Real Americans (tm).


No, but I do see a whole farking lot of enemies of the Constitution in Congress/government and police departments... or was that your point?
 
2011-10-28 03:11:38 PM  
If the Marines have balls at least one tenth the size claimed by government recruitment advertisements, then they will not let this incident slide into obscurity.
 
jvl
2011-10-28 03:12:47 PM  

TimonC346: OPD didn't need to Disperse them in the first place--any argument in favor of the police action is inherently flawed in that regard. Have you been to Oakland? Do you know how much shiat those cops should be dealing with instead?


The government doesn't get to pick and choose which protests are cool and which ones must be removed. If they allow OWS to occupy a city park in clear violation of law, they have to allow the Godwin Party to occupy the park too if they want.

What should they OPD be doing instead? There was violence in the occupation nightly; was there some other violence that was more urgent that they deal with?
 
2011-10-28 03:13:08 PM  

Vodka Zombie: SkinnyHead: luckyeddie: That accusation was made in the other thread - probably by you - many times. Strange that no evidence of that happening was produced. Perhaps the cops haven't had time to fabricate it yet.

Eye witnesses claim that they saw protesters throwing rocks and bottles at the police. Isn't that evidence right there?

I met a guy in Oakland who claimed to be pregnant with Elvis' baby. So... If you want to use eye witness accounts to bolster your feeble argument, go right ahead. We'll laugh though.


An eye witness account is evidence. When you people say that there is no evidence that protesters were throwing rocks and bottles, what you're really saying is that you refuse to believe evidence that does not fit your preconceived narrative.
 
2011-10-28 03:13:13 PM  

Cythraul: MagicD: Cythraul:
One would hope. But our military, like any military, is very nationalistic and patriotic. I couldn't see them doing anything short of defending the establishment.

You obviously don't know one farking thing about our military, so do us all a favor and keep your retarded judgments to yourself.

/vet

Awww, did I hurt your feelings?


No, that only happens when you don't swallow.
 
2011-10-28 03:13:18 PM  

Aigoo: fark_your_mudder: Aigoo: haterade: guess he should have learned how to duck after a tour in the box. maybe he'll learn that he should have dispersed after being ordered by the police

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

To explain why the bolded parts are important and why they were written:

The "right of the people to peaceably assemble" was frequently violated by the British in the years leading up to the American Revolution, as efforts were made to ensure that radical colonists would not be able to foment a revolutionary movement. The Bill of Rights, written as it was by revolutionaries, was intended to prevent the government from restricting future social movements.

Petitions were a more powerful tool in the revolutionary era than they are today, as they were the only direct means of "redressing ... grievances" against the government; the idea of pursuing lawsuits against unconstitutional legislation was not feasible in 1789. This being the case, the right to petition was essential to the integrity of the United States. Without it, disgruntled citizens would have no recourse but armed revolution.

OWS is, specifically, one of those "future social movements" addressed very specifically by the First Amendment that Marines like Olsen and soldiers like myself wore that uniform to defend. We gave up significant portions of our lives during which we did not have that right because while we wore that uniform, we willingly gave up that right so that jackholes like you could say and do stupid shiat such as what is quoted in the above comment, proving you haven't the first farkin clue what your rights are. People like you deserve to get hit in the head with tear gas canisters while your rights are systematically stripped from you because you don't give a shiat that Oakland PD, NYPD and others take them from you due to your ignorant apathy and blatant stupidity.

The only reason any of these protests are turning into riots is because city and state police are blatantly ignoring the Constitution - the supreme LAW of the land. Want to biatch about the rule of law, maybe you should read up on it. Soldiers and Marines do, which is why we're so farking pissed off about this shiat - because the people who are supposed to be enforcing it are not. They're enforcing... something else entirely.

Are there people stirring up trouble? Absolutely. Every crowd has bad apples. But these police blatantly violated the farking Constitution more than once, and they did it as people on scene were trying to render aid to an injured man who is now in a medically induced coma. You wanna throw shiat on someone, throw it on them, because that's where it belongs.

The police successfully petitioned Congress to establish a law that infringed on our rights to peacefully assemble? Weird, why wasn't that in the article?

Weird, that was kinda my point. ;)


What's funny is that there are TONS of laws that infringe upon your right to peaceably assemble. All laws have limits.
 
2011-10-28 03:13:45 PM  

SkinnyHead: luckyeddie: That accusation was made in the other thread - probably by you - many times. Strange that no evidence of that happening was produced. Perhaps the cops haven't had time to fabricate it yet.

Eye witnesses claim that they saw protesters throwing rocks and bottles at the police. Isn't that evidence right there?


Video exists of a cop throwing a flashbang almost directly on top of an injured man and the people trying to aid him. A man who, by the way, was injured by a cop misusing a tear gas launcher.

If video exists of protestors throwing rocks and bottles, it hasn't surfaced. And even if it does exist, that does not excuse the actions of the police; at best, they were improperly handling their equipment.
 
2011-10-28 03:13:49 PM  

Boxingoutsider: cameroncrazy1984: SkinnyHead: cameroncrazy1984: SkinnyHead: If it did happen, if protesters were throwing rocks and bottles at police, would you agree that it was a riot

Obviously, but unless you have multiple sourced citations, (or, better yet, video) then it didn't happen.

The police claim that protesters threw rock and bottles and other things at them. Are you saying that the police are lying about that?

Yeah, the police would never coverup something by lying about who provoked the incident. Are you saying you don't have any evidence other than "the guy who shot him claims they were throwing bottles"?

And people looking to push an agenda would never exaggerate their own peacefulness while playing up the aggressiveness of the cops either.


So...clearly you must believe the police? Hell, watch the video. See if you can tell me there are any bottles.
 
2011-10-28 03:13:49 PM  

mikaloyd: Nobody ever thanks Reddit fore their they're political influence.


/pet peave
 
2011-10-28 03:14:10 PM  

SkinnyHead: luckyeddie: That accusation was made in the other thread - probably by you - many times. Strange that no evidence of that happening was produced. Perhaps the cops haven't had time to fabricate it yet.

Eye witnesses claim that they saw protesters throwing rocks and bottles at the police. Isn't that evidence right there?


Plenty of examples of video showing cop brutality - none showing the protesters acting violently. No, I wouldn't call it evidence - I'd call it 'lying scumbag pigs as usual'. For fark's sake, surely Fox News had cameras there. They would have focused in on bottle and stone throwers right from the start. Murdoch must be slipping. Perhaps his conscience over the phone hacking scandal has finally turned him from the dark side.

/who am I kidding?
 
2011-10-28 03:14:13 PM  
He knew the risks so its really hard for me to feel sorry for him, sometimes you can get hurt trying to prove a point.

If you don't want to get shot at then stay out of the military and police work, if you don't want to get trampled or dodge tear gas cannisters then don't join the mob of protesters.
 
2011-10-28 03:14:15 PM  
I wonder who would win in a fight between a group of Marines and Oakland PD.
 
2011-10-28 03:14:17 PM  

Vodka Zombie: SkinnyHead: Marines are required to obey the law just like everyone else. If they participate in a riot in violation of the law, they deserve what they get, just like everyone else.

Is it fun to call it a riot?

I mean, it's kind of a stretch to do so, and it's wildly dishonest, but I want to know if it's fun.


When has Skinnyhead ever been honest about anything? All that trolling little turd muncher cares about is provoking a response from people. He will say whatever it takes, no matter how much it makes him look like an idiot.
 
2011-10-28 03:14:27 PM  

EducatedBum: MagicD: Cythraul:
One would hope. But our military, like any military, is very nationalistic and patriotic. I couldn't see them doing anything short of defending the establishment.

You obviously don't know one farking thing about our military, so do us all a favor and keep your retarded judgments to yourself.

/vet

I don't mean to be nosy but I couldn't help but read your post there. You don't think our military is patriotic? Even nationalistic to a certain extent? Zoinks!


I was in the Army. Sure, there were a few overly gung-ho America fark yeah! d-bags here and there. But most of us were just normal people trying to do our jobs and getting drunk after work.
 
2011-10-28 03:14:33 PM  

mynameisdouglas: FarkinHostile: All Veterans and active service members, do you remember this little oath we took? :

"I, FarkingHostile, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."


What is your point with this, exactly?

It's a reminder for Vets, and a little education for civilians.


Yes, I think it is important. But I don't see any enemies of the United States in OWS or the Tea Party. Just people you may disagree with politically.

Well, there is your error. I didn't take an oath to defend the United States, per se, but to defend THE CONSTITUTION from all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC. Not the government, The Constitution.

Do you see my point yet?


Their voice and their right to express it, willfully taken up by the people also makes them Real Americans (tm).

Um, exactly. But what does that make those who are attacking them for exercising their Constitutional rights?

 
2011-10-28 03:14:58 PM  

jvl: TimonC346: OPD didn't need to Disperse them in the first place--any argument in favor of the police action is inherently flawed in that regard. Have you been to Oakland? Do you know how much shiat those cops should be dealing with instead?

The government doesn't get to pick and choose which protests are cool and which ones must be removed. If they allow OWS to occupy a city park in clear violation of law, they have to allow the Godwin Party to occupy the park too if they want.

What should they OPD be doing instead? There was violence in the occupation nightly; was there some other violence that was more urgent that they deal with?


What should they be doing instead?

How about not lobbed grenades into small groups of people helping an injured person?

Link to clear video evidence (new window)
 
2011-10-28 03:15:20 PM  

jvl: Public parks are not campgrounds. Get over it.


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

I don't see a clause that states public parks are off limits for assembling. And I'll have to see specific proof that the protesters were committing crimes, rioting and becoming violent.

Also, this is moot since our government sh*ts all over the constitution every freaking day. You keep sitting back and being complacent like an overstuffed veal in a box, and one day they'll come for you too.
 
2011-10-28 03:15:25 PM  
I'll just leave this here.

http://www2.oaklandnet.com/oakca/groups/ceda/documents/pressrelease/o a k031908.pdf

News from: Emergency Operations Center
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
October 25, 2011
Additional Details Regarding OPD's Enforcement in Frank Ogawa Plaza and Snow Park

Oakland, CA - This morning at 4:30 am, the Oakland Police Department began enforcement of the "Notice of Violations and Demand to Cease Violations" issued on Friday, October 21, to persons staying overnight in Frank Ogawa Plaza and Snow Park related to the Occupy Oakland demonstration.

By approximately 5:30 am, Frank Ogawa Plaza had been contained, and
mobilization of the clean-up phase had begun.

Operational Details

During the two enforcement operations, 79 arrests were made in the Frank Ogawa Plaza area and 6 arrests were made at Snow Park. Those arrested included individuals from as far away as Florida and Illinois.

As a defense against protesters who were throwing items from the encampment's kitchen at officers, law enforcement officers deployed bean bags and gas canisters. No injuries to protesters or law enforcement officers have been reported.

The City of Oakland appreciates the outstanding mutual aid assistance provided by local law enforcement agencies. Mutual aid was provided by the cities of Alameda, Berkeley, Emeryville, Fremont, Hayward, Newark, Pleasanton, San Jose, San Leandro and Union City as well as the Alameda County Sheriff's Department, San Francisco County Sheriff's Department, Santa Clara County Sheriff's Department, the California Highway Patrol, the Solano County Sheriffs Department and the University of California Police Department.

To ensure public safety and minimize traffic in the area, the City of Oakland advised downtown employers and City employees to delay the start of the work day until 10 am.

City buildings surrounding Frank Ogawa Plaza (City Hall, 150 Frank Ogawa Plaza, and 250 Frank Ogawa Plaza) are closed to the public until further notice. All City Council committee meetings scheduled for today have been cancelled.

Clean-Up Operations
Once the Plaza was cleared, Public Works crews began assessing the damage to the lawn, Plaza and infrastructure, including hardscape.

Frank Ogawa Plaza will remain closed until public health and safety conditions can be improved; this includes debris, human waste and hazardous materials removal.

The City remains committed to respecting free speech as well as maintaining the City's responsibility to protect public health and safety. Once the health and safety hazards on the Plaza are resolved, the City will re-open the Plaza as soon as practical to allow peaceful daytime assembly. No camping or overnight stays will be permitted.

Retrieval of Property
In addition, crews are logging property recovered from the Plaza and storing them in a City warehouse until retrieved by the rightful owners. More information about this process can be found at www2.oaklandnet.com/oak031906.

Background
From the outset of the demonstration which began two weeks ago on Monday, October 10, the City of Oakland has focused on three clear goals: 1) facilitating the protesters' right to free speech and peaceful expression, 2) maintaining public health and safety, and 3) crowd control.

Two days into the demonstration, the City began providing written notices of the ground rules required in order to protect the health and safety of the group and to respect the Plaza, which is a public park.

After the first weekend, the City began getting reports of problems and communicated with the demonstrators about additional health and safety concerns (e.g., fire hazards, sanitation, food storage, unsafe structures built into the Plaza,noise).

By the second week, conditions began to deteriorate. On at least two occasions, American Medical Response (AMR ambulance company) was denied access to provide medical care. The Oakland Fire Department and Police Department were denied access to the Plaza to respond to calls for service. The City also received reports that an individual was severely beaten. Sanitation conditions worsened with frequent instances of public urination and defecation, as well as improper food storage. The existing rodent problem on the Plaza was exacerbated and vector control was unable to implement measures to control the rat problem due to the presence of overnight campers. The Plaza was physically damaged on a daily basis by graffiti, litter, and vandalism. Fire hazards continued unabated, including cooking with open flame, improper storage and disposal of propane tanks, storage of grease, inadequate fire extinguishers, density of tents and flammable materials, and smoking in tents.

Specifically:

• On Monday, October 17, the City received its first report of a sexual assault, and a television reporter was bitten by a protester's dog.

• On Tuesday, October 18, the dynamics of the group had changed. We began to receive numerous complaints of threatening, intimidating behavior; individuals threatened to riot if OPD facilitated their march through downtown that evening; public health and safety requirements were being ignored. The City began collecting intelligence to determine the amount of mutual aid that would be
required to address the situation.

• On Wednesday, October 19, the City sent its fourth notice communicating additional health and safety concerns, including sexual offenses, fighting, public drinking, and intoxication. The County Health Department conducted its first inspection and the Oakland Fire Department conducted a second inspection. The City began putting appropriate plans in place to put an end to overnight camping and cooking in the Plaza, and OPD formally requested mutual aid.

• On Thursday, October 20, the City put the demonstrators on notice that as a result of multiple conditions-including fire hazards, increased levels of violence, denial of access to public safety personnel to assist injured people, mounting sanitation hazards, health hazards, physical damage to the Plaza and lawn, graffiti, and disruption of the Plaza for broader public use-they were required to vacate the Plaza between 10 pm and 6 am. The Fire Department "red tagged" Frank Ogawa Plaza and issued an order to abate and cease operations.

• On Friday, October 21, the City issued a formal notice of violations and demand to cease overnight camping and cooking operations. In addition, on Friday night and throughout the weekend, the City's homeless services team coordinated with Operation Dignity and Alameda County to arrange for shelter, meals, and service referrals for the homeless population camping on the Plaza.

• On Monday, October 24, the Fire Department attempted to assist with the removal of propane tanks and cooking oil to address some of the fire hazards. The last notice was issued to cease overnight lodging.

The City of Oakland's goal has been to facilitate individuals to remove their tents, cooking facilities, and belongings, and to leave cooperatively. The City has partnered with community allies to help facilitate communication with the protesters regarding their departure, and we provided services to assist those with housing and mental health needs.

Securing an adequate level of mutual aid has also been a primary goal, especially considering the regional impact that the Occupy demonstrations have had on local law enforcement agencies.
 
2011-10-28 03:15:26 PM  

SystemFault: If the Marines have balls at least one tenth the size claimed by government recruitment advertisements, then they will not let this incident slide into obscurity.


lol
reread the headline of this thread.
/the one cop should be running for his life right about now
 
2011-10-28 03:15:29 PM  

Mr. Breeze: dothemath: I agree with the sentiment but I think the 'Occupy' protests are ineffectual and counter-productive.
I live paycheck to paycheck and have seen a pay decrease and job insecurity go to an all time high. I have basically forgotten about ever buying a house.
But the people down there shiatting in the streets and smoking weed do not represent me. There was a story out yesterday about sexual assaults that have taken place, allegedly.
I think a lot of those people are trust fund babies out to look cool.

I agree. And personally I've been thinking about how the Tea Party movement never turned violent, even though some people at the protests/rallies had weapons (which were harmless but vilified by liberals). I've also been thinking how the Tea Party successfully got its members elected to Congress, furthering their cause more than these disorganized OWS protesters ever will.

Regardless of your opinion on the Tea Party, you have to give them that.


And with the statistics showing that only well-financed, moneyed-interests backing candidates to displace incumbents and capture open seats, that means the Tea Party is......?
 
2011-10-28 03:15:43 PM  

Aigoo:
No, but I do see a whole farking lot of enemies of the Constitution in Congress/government and police departments... or was that your point?




img.photobucket.com
 
2011-10-28 03:16:07 PM  

MagicD: Cythraul: MagicD: Cythraul:
One would hope. But our military, like any military, is very nationalistic and patriotic. I couldn't see them doing anything short of defending the establishment.

You obviously don't know one farking thing about our military, so do us all a favor and keep your retarded judgments to yourself.

/vet

Awww, did I hurt your feelings?

No, that only happens when you don't swallow.


Hah! A gay joke. You got me there. Boy, you sure did.
 
2011-10-28 03:16:09 PM  

SuperNinjaToad: I wonder who would win in a fight between a group of Marines and Oakland PD.


I think that would be no contest.
 
2011-10-28 03:16:30 PM  
Anybody read up on the Haymarket riots? That was a bunch of vets who couldn't get a job. They gathered to protest the way commerce was run in the 1900s (?). The cops then started to kick ass, and the protest turned into a police riot.

Those people in OWS, protesting in the parks, ain't out there for the Lulz...they are trying to get notice in a top-heavy material world. You can't be civil and get your issues heard. Try standing in front of the White House silently in protest, you'll see my point. If all these varied people were gainfullly employed, there wouldn't be anyone protesting in parks anywhere.,,and that's what they are saying.

This guy was a former marine who served to protect us (all of us, included those protesting) from an Arab half a world away. When he got out, there was nobody to protect him from the Army of the Corporations, the front line of the Industrial/military complex.

I know nobody cares what I've written, but I'm glad I wrote it. I'm 60yo, and won't be out there in the parks, but I do understand the frustration. The 1%'s salary has risen 250%... 99% got a 14% pay hike. Many, many people are out of work and a large piece of the employed are not making a living wage.

/nuff said
//tl;dr
///cops need a muzzle
 
2011-10-28 03:16:39 PM  
Cn' we ride bikes AND play trucks after kickball?


And then ...NAP TIMEEEeeee~
 
2011-10-28 03:17:09 PM  

SkinnyHead: Vodka Zombie: SkinnyHead: Marines are required to obey the law just like everyone else. If they participate in a riot in violation of the law, they deserve what they get, just like everyone else.

Is it fun to call it a riot?

I mean, it's kind of a stretch to do so, and it's wildly dishonest, but I want to know if it's fun.

Protesters were throwing rocks and bottles at police. That's a riot.


The only evidence we have of that is one picture of a cop with a small amount of paint on his clothes, and one woman who says she's part of OWS. Show us some better evidence that the protesters were attacking the police, please.
 
2011-10-28 03:17:27 PM  

SkinnyHead: Vodka Zombie: SkinnyHead: luckyeddie: That accusation was made in the other thread - probably by you - many times. Strange that no evidence of that happening was produced. Perhaps the cops haven't had time to fabricate it yet.

Eye witnesses claim that they saw protesters throwing rocks and bottles at the police. Isn't that evidence right there?

I met a guy in Oakland who claimed to be pregnant with Elvis' baby. So... If you want to use eye witness accounts to bolster your feeble argument, go right ahead. We'll laugh though.

An eye witness account is evidence. When you people say that there is no evidence that protesters were throwing rocks and bottles, what you're really saying is that you refuse to believe evidence that does not fit your preconceived narrative.


Hey, I PERSONALLY saw Bigfoot swimming in my pool. There, now there's actual evidence of Bigfoot's existence, since an 'eye witness' said it happened.
 
2011-10-28 03:17:29 PM  

fark_your_mudder: But that's not the one that felled him, that was a secondary one that you can see hitting the ground and exploding. It's the first one fired that injured the guy. The second one was clearly intentional, but again, I don't know what protocol is for these situations


yeah, you're right--he was injured by the first one, which might not have been directed at his head. I was pissed off at the second lob, which was directed right at the crowd. You don't throw stuff at someone who's already lying on the ground.
 
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