they have to pay a lot to keep the best managers, just like the banks.

My first exposure to unions was while working as IT in a district, greediest backstabbing farkers in the world are the people working in union administration.

Funny, when you send them an email that starts out"Dear blood sucking Communists..." for raising union dues when they already have a budget surplus they sure do call you at work fast.

As I was writing the email I was telling my boss what I was writing, he kept saying "Dude I really can't be privy to that" while laughing so hard he was crying.

I actually got a high five from the budget supervisor when she heard about it.

Farkin' unions...

I'm finding it increasingly difficult to support unions these days. Tards need to realize when they're not helping things. I really wish they would stay out of the OWS protests.

Damn Republicans.

whither_apophis: they have to pay a lot to keep the best managers, just like the banks.

Just the rejoinder I was looking for. A pity that conservatives are completely incapable of intellectual consistency.

clovis69: My first exposure to unions was while working as IT in a district, greediest backstabbing farkers in the world are the people working in union administration.

Funny, when you send them an email that starts out"Dear blood sucking Communists..." for raising union dues when they already have a budget surplus they sure do call you at work fast.

As I was writing the email I was telling my boss what I was writing, he kept saying "Dude I really can't be privy to that" while laughing so hard he was crying.

I actually got a high five from the budget supervisor when she heard about it.

Farkin' unions...

I agree with you for the most part. But it's better to have a union you hate than no union at all. I was in probably the same sort of union you were, educational support staff and while there were blood sucking communists who made some really sketchy moves (saved a guy's job who grabbed another worker's neck, wtf?) you realize why they're necessary when you imagine what it would be like without them.

As I left, the community college needed a new teacher and I was on the selection committee. So they interviewed three. Two were absofarkinglutely terrible. Biology teachers, we gave them a basic biology knowledge quiz and they got like 3/10 and worse. The third was amazing, was being laid off from industry, had direct experience in the field, scored a 10/10, seemed like a nice guy and so on. The committee made its clear recommendation to the administration on why the third guy was the right choice and the rest were wastes of space. They hired all three, it's cheaper to hire 3 part time with no benefits than 1 full time person. Took the union years fighting the admin before those 3 part time positions became 1 full time one. So thank your union for your IT department being full of full time people rather than a bunch of hourly part time guys with no benefits.

/csb

This clearly prooves what we've all been suspicious of for years... ALL UNIONS ARE BAD!

Not knowledgeable about unions, but can't the teachers collectively oust their asses? Collectively refuse to pay dues?

Good to see administrations of unions are just as aholish as the administrations of corporations.

/That was sarcasm.

whither_apophis: they have to pay a lot to keep the best managers, just like the banks.

Iron-clad contracts. You can't have the government just go in and change a legally-binding agreement.

jake3988: Good to see administrations of unions are just as aholish as the administrations of corporations.

/That was sarcasm.

If it were corporate execs, in addition to the raises, they'd lay off 30% of the teachers, and hire illegals to do the job for minimum wage and no benefits.

YOU. Do the dirty work and give me a cut so I can "protect" you. If you don't give me a cut, I'll have you "locked up".

Oh, wait... I'm thinking of the US Government.

Free Range Fetus Farmer: Not knowledgeable about unions, but can't the teachers collectively oust their asses? Collectively refuse to pay dues?

They can hold an election to get rid of them, yeah.

For executive positions in NY those salaries aren't much to brag about.

Administrations and Bureaucracies are full of greedy profit-mongering assholes.
What a shocker.

Be Lucky?

Free Range Fetus Farmer: Not knowledgeable about unions, but can't the teachers collectively oust their asses? Collectively refuse to pay dues?

Teachers may need a union to collectively bargain with their union.

David Piccioli and Steven Preckwinkle, both union officials in Illinois, took advantage of legislation that allowed them to substitute teach for one day and then count their years as union employees toward a state teachers' pension. The two potentially stand to collect more than a million dollars each in pension money in their lifetimes. Link (new window)

Shiat like this is why unions deserve what they are getting.

I was in a closed shop union for the last 15 years and never once asked them for help, other than their mandatory presence for all contract negotiations. Not saying they didn't help keeping wages and benefits stable, but there were also sneaky takebacks and giveaways. Come last year when I needed their support filing a grievance for a targeted ongoing harassment/bullying atmosphere against a Satan of a manager and they were hopelessly unsupportive. W.E.A.K., weak, weak. Never returned phone calls, even went higher up the food chain. So for $80 a month in dues I got shiat in return. Managers running wild firing people on trumped up charges. However... hold on, this is the good part... when it came time to get the vote out they personally appeared on my doorstep and numerous visits in my department. Moral to the story is there can be pro/con to any union setup, but in my case... well, I sure could have used that $80 for food, and cat litter for shiat.

MFL: Shiat like this is why unions deserve what they are getting.

Other than bad publicity, what are they getting?

TFA says that union is carrying a net debt of $117 million.
whatthefark?

lennavan
I agree with you for the most part. But it's better to have a union you hate than no union at all. I was in probably the same sort of union you were, educational support staff and while there were blood sucking communists who made some really sketchy moves (saved a guy's job who grabbed another worker's neck, wtf?) you realize why they're necessary when you imagine what it would be like without them.

Unions are good... just not these unions. Like guessi'mdoingfine said, the union only shows up when their gravy train is threatened. That's the lesson from Wisconsin, where the public worker unions offered up ALL the cuts if collective bargaining and automatic dues deduction were kept. So those are the priorities.

FTA: Though the money that pays the union officers' salaries does not come directly from taxpayers, it is in essence one step removed. Tax dollars pay teachers, and the union dues come directly from their paychecks.

Top pay at NYSUT: added together $1,548,372 annually

Yes, it's a lot of money. And it hurts because the average tax payer's wage is losing ground.

Here's a chart showing wages compared to the economy. Wages have dropped to an all-time low.



But, until the larger problem is fixed, demonizing union leaders is just not really that helpful. Union salaries are used by folks to divert attention from the larger problem. What is the larger problem? We are being destroyed by the banks.

The Fed allows the banks to borrow at zero percent interest rates. Check the interest on any savings accounts you have if you don't believe how cheaply banks borrow. For three years the banks can have all the money they want essentially free.

The arrangement was made to allow the banks to lend and restore the economy. But the banks are not lending, they are hoarding that money. Economists call this hoarding excess reserves. Here's a chart showing the banks are hoarding $1.6 trillion dollars.



Here's one the last chart. The banks are using the free money that we give them from the Fed to buy treasury securities that taxpayers pay interest on.



According to Institutional Risk Analytics, the "net interest margin" made by US banks in the first six months of this year is $211 Billion. So, we taxpayers are giving banks money that they don't loan that we then pay interest on, roughly $400 billion annually.

So, the NY union bosses get $1.5 million and the banks get $400 billion. Let's agree to stop worrying about the union boss salaries, which are easy to fix, until we stop the banks from stealing one half trillion dollar of our taxes every year.

RanDomino: lennavan
I agree with you for the most part. But it's better to have a union you hate than no union at all. I was in probably the same sort of union you were, educational support staff and while there were blood sucking communists who made some really sketchy moves (saved a guy's job who grabbed another worker's neck, wtf?) you realize why they're necessary when you imagine what it would be like without them.

Unions are good... just not these unions. Like guessi'mdoingfine said, the union only shows up when their gravy train is threatened. That's the lesson from Wisconsin, where the public worker unions offered up ALL the cuts if collective bargaining and automatic dues deduction were kept. So those are the priorities.

Even these unions are good. By analogy, the police force only shows up when a crime occurs. Does that mean the only thing having an existing police force does is to investigate crime? What do you think would happen if we got rid of police entirely? We'd just stop investigating crimes but the same amount would occur?

What do you think would happen if we got rid of these shiatty unions? We'd just stop paying union bosses gobs of money but nothing else would occur?

MFL: David Piccioli and Steven Preckwinkle, both union officials in Illinois, took advantage of legislation that allowed them to substitute teach for one day and then count their years as union employees toward a state teachers' pension. The two potentially stand to collect more than a million dollars each in pension money in their lifetimes. Link (new window)

Shiat like this is why unions deserve what they are getting.

Sounds like that law needs to be changed.

Both unions and banks are corrupt.

romero.jpg

HeartBurnKid: MFL: David Piccioli and Steven Preckwinkle, both union officials in Illinois, took advantage of legislation that allowed them to substitute teach for one day and then count their years as union employees toward a state teachers' pension. The two potentially stand to collect more than a million dollars each in pension money in their lifetimes. Link (new window)

Shiat like this is why unions deserve what they are getting.

Sounds like that law needs to be changed.

NO BURN THE UNIONS. A union boss taking advantage of legislation does not mean the boss deserves shiat, it does not mean the law needs changing. IT MEANS BURN THE UNIONS.

BURN IT DOWN

They hand out raises while they are over $100 million in debt? They're so good with money, it's no wonder they back Democrats.

Liberally1337: Be Lucky

Came to ask the same question.

MFL: Shiat like this is why unions deserve what they are getting.

danvon Other than bad publicity, what are they getting?

Major decline.

But without unregulated public unions employees would be at the mercy of administrators who would simply give themselves raises while telling the workers to suck it.

Oh . . .

watson.t.hamster: But without unregulated public unions employees would be at the mercy of administrators who would simply give themselves raises while telling the workers to suck it.

Oh . . .

Speaking of which, the administrators here are up for re-election. I can't wait to vote my boss out.

LouDobbsAwaaaay
You personally deserve to be stepped on if the boss of your company games the system.

The employees at Enron didn't do anything wrong either. At least the union rank in file get to choose their boss.

In a way it's not really punishment though. In places like Indiana most teachers chose to keep their pay raise after the repeal of collective bargaining stopped forcing all of them to pay dues. In 6 short years after given a choice, membership went from 20,000 to 1,400. I guess despite all the media hype it wasn't worth the price of admission.

Delay
Let's agree to stop worrying about the union boss salaries, which are easy to fix, until we stop the banks from stealing one half trillion dollar of our taxes every year.

We can't do shiat about the banks if the unions aren't controlled by the workers. The bureaucratic union model has resulted in the division of the working class as unions have turned into corporations that sell labor. Union bosses are only interested in maintaining this arrangement; anything that helps workers recognize their own power threatens to undermine the power of the union bureaucrats... so they crush it.

I remember when a Toronto hotel's cleaning staff went on wildcat strikes after their union colluded with management to brush off harassment allegations and poor treatment. The slogan that came out was "The members are the union!", as opposed to the union's staff and managers.

NYC teachers should remind their ostensible union representatives who they're supposed to represent, perhaps with a nice picket line in front of the executives' main office.

/supports labour organization
//weary of the institutionalization and hierarchy of many labour unions
///knows someone whose union rep was a former member of employer's board, and was in the tank for the incompetent, absent, abusive manager

RanDomino: Delay
Let's agree to stop worrying about the union boss salaries, which are easy to fix, until we stop the banks from stealing one half trillion dollar of our taxes every year.

We can't do shiat about the banks if the unions aren't controlled by the workers. The bureaucratic union model has resulted in the division of the working class as unions have turned into corporations that sell labor. Union bosses are only interested in maintaining this arrangement; anything that helps workers recognize their own power threatens to undermine the power of the union bureaucrats... so they crush it.

Thank you, I've been looking for a better way to explain my frustration with contemporary labour unions.

LouDobbsAwaaaay
That tends to happen when state governments rob you of your right to organize.

If the unions hadn't been raping the taxpayer for years those state governments look a whole lot different.

lennavan
What do you think would happen if we got rid of these shiatty unions? We'd just stop paying union bosses gobs of money but nothing else would occur?

No. The illusion that these unions actually help workers would be broken, and real unions would have the chance to develop.


LouDobbsAwaaaay
That tends to happen when state governments rob you of your right to organize.

There is no farking "right to organize". There is the ability to organize, which even happens in places and times when the suspicion of being a union member can get a person shot. Public workers in Wisconsin won recognition after a wave of strikes, not the benevolence of politicians! And if workers refuse to fight, they deserve what they get!

LouDobbsAwaaaay: MFL: MFL: Shiat like this is why unions deserve what they are getting.

danvon Other than bad publicity, what are they getting?

Major decline.

That tends to happen when state governments rob you of your right to organize.

How are they being robbed of this right?

Are public employees not heavily unionized?

Have states prevented people from voluntarily forming and joining unions?

Not forcing people to adhere to a unions edicts doesn't equal robbing them of their right to unionize.

watson.t.hamster Not forcing people to adhere to a unions edicts doesn't equal robbing them of their right to unionize

But it robs the union bosses of their right to rip off taxpayers.

I don't remember unions ever telling anyone to be thankful they have a job and stfu & gbtw. I think trollmitter is confusing unions with Republicans.

Unions have said "just because non-union workers are getting hosed doesn't mean we should get hosed, too," but that's not really the same thing.

Have you ever spoken to a rep from a union? They would be delighted to help you unionize your workplace. They won't look down their nose at you, by any means.

/didn't rtfa

A job should be payed what it is worth in the marketplace. Whatever salary a person can command, that is what their job is worth.

(Oh, what? This isn't a thread about abolishing the minimum wage or justifying executive compensation? NVM)

watson.t.hamster: LouDobbsAwaaaay: MFL: MFL: Shiat like this is why unions deserve what they are getting.

danvon Other than bad publicity, what are they getting?

Major decline.

That tends to happen when state governments rob you of your right to organize.

How are they being robbed of this right?

Are public employees not heavily unionized?

Have states prevented people from voluntarily forming and joining unions?

Not forcing people to adhere to a unions edicts doesn't equal robbing them of their right to unionize.

I was under the impression that public employees are not heavily unionized. Do you know the percentage of public employees that are part of a union?

LouDobbsAwaaaay
Welcome to the joy that is having an "argument" with MFL.

I'll take that as a compliment.

You: "Unions are in decline because everyone hates them!!!11!1"
Me: "They're in decline because state governments are destroying them."
You: "... they deserve it."

To sum it up: State governments that are "destroying" unions (by giving teachers the right to choose if they pay union dues or not) represent the majority voters obviously don't like them.

Geezus we are breaking ground here.

Moopy Mac: watson.t.hamster: LouDobbsAwaaaay: MFL: MFL: Shiat like this is why unions deserve what they are getting.

danvon Other than bad publicity, what are they getting?

Major decline.

That tends to happen when state governments rob you of your right to organize.

How are they being robbed of this right?

Are public employees not heavily unionized?

Have states prevented people from voluntarily forming and joining unions?

Not forcing people to adhere to a unions edicts doesn't equal robbing them of their right to unionize.

I was under the impression that public employees are not heavily unionized. Do you know the percentage of public employees that are part of a union?

This (new window) is from 2005 but it probably hasn't changed drastically since.

Public workers are unionized at a rate about 5 times greater than private workers.