Who is buying their cars? I don't even like to rent them. They aren't particularly less expensive than other cars, but they are less reliable, handle terribly, and depreciate like bowling balls. At least it looks like the finally killed off the Status. They need to fire their engineering team and cherry pick people from Toyota or something.

TheGreatGazoo: Who is buying their cars? I don't even like to rent them. They aren't particularly less expensive than other cars, but they are less reliable, handle terribly, and depreciate like bowling balls. At least it looks like the finally killed off the Status. They need to fire their engineering team and cherry pick people from Toyota or something.

Chrysler's problem is they're not a destination for auto engineers. They've been unstable for decades and reeling from bailout to merger to buyout ever since. They also have a corporate culture of favoring product designers and treating engineers like shiat. The engineer is viewed solely as the dumb monkey who makes it work. Very few engineers want to work there. You apply to the Asian 3, Ford, GM, various suppliers, etc. Chrysler is like "Well I have family here and don't want to leave, so fine I'll work for them". Then you get the hell out the minute another option presents it.

Anecdotally I have friends who left Chrysler for DENSO. DENSO is a Japanese company and so as a white person you're career ceiling is limited. Yet they're happier there than having unlimited promotion potential at Chrysler. To quote one of them "Why would I want to be king of the retards?".

Finally they've pretty much fired all their engineers. Look at their products, like the "new" Charger and the like. Not a lot of work done to the power train or the like. It's mostly rebadging the look and interior buttons on the car. Not a massive improvement in MPG or core technology. Their new Jeep, which is awesome, is built primarily off of a technology base from Daimler as a holdover from their time merged with Daimler. The new CEO is actually desperately trying to hire in new engineers, but having trouble attracting talent.

/full disclosure I work for their competitor
//so I might habe a bias, Ford and GM engineers tend to consider Chrysler as "special"

Their quality has improved greatly

They've always done well in the truck space

on the road all the time, I've rented the latest avenger, decent enough car. The interior is a still not so hot but the car drives and rides great..

Handling, seriously handling?
Comparing it to the latest camry, hardly comparable, out handles the camry v6, which was an absolute pig, worst car in its class when it comes to handling, although the interior and ergonomics are great...

ha-ha-guy:

Finally they've pretty much fired all their engineers. Look at their products, like the "new" Charger and the like. Not a lot of work done to the power train or the like. It's mostly rebadging the look and interior buttons on the car. Not a massive improvement in MPG or core technology. Their new Jeep, which is awesome, is built primarily off of a technology base from Daimler as a holdover from their time merged with Daimler. The new CEO is actually desperately trying to hire in new engineers, but having trouble attracting talent.

/full disclosure I work for their competitor
//so I might habe a bias, Ford and GM engineers tend to consider Chrysler as "special"

Hmmm, I recently rented a Chrysler 200 and hated it. Loud, underpowered, and wobbled all over the road. I got a little carsick from driving it which I didn't know was even possible. It felt exactly like the last Sebring I rented.

ha-ha-guy: Finally they've pretty much fired all their engineers. Look at their products, like the "new" Charger and the like. Not a lot of work done to the power train or the like. It's mostly rebadging the look and interior buttons on the car. Not a massive improvement in MPG or core technology. Their new Jeep, which is awesome, is built primarily off of a technology base from Daimler as a holdover from their time merged with Daimler. The new CEO is actually desperately trying to hire in new engineers, but having trouble attracting talent.

If you're going to pick on a Chrysler product (and there are plenty that deserve it), the Charger probably isn't the best choice. How do an entirely new engine (3.6L V6) and transmission (8-speed auto) constitute "not a lot of work done on the power train"? Those items clearly represent a core technology improvement which resulted in a fuel economy increase. Ultimately, the Charger is a large sedan with nearly 300 hp that gets 31 mpg. That's pretty competitive.

The comment about the Jeep is also misleading. While the platform was developed during their time with Daimler, it wasn't actually developed by Daimler.

Now, if you want to talk about the steaming turds that are the 200 and the small Jeeps (among others), great. But why go after the few products that actually don't suck?

Bert_Harbinson: small Jeeps

Bought the wife a 2008 Liberty Limited, and it's been the best vehicle we've ever owned.

Bert_Harbinson: How do an entirely new engine (3.6L V6) and transmission (8-speed auto) constitute "not a lot of work done on the power train"?

Those are Daimler techs as well. The 8 speed is a giant ripoff of a Benz transmission. As for MPG, 300 hp and 31 mpg has been an option since the mid 2000s with AFM/DOD. You can also get with a straight up DI V6 which Ford and GM have had in production for one and half to two generations of power trains now. It's not impressive, it's them finally catching up to industry standard.

Reread what I wrote about Daimler. It is built using Daimler's tech base as a starting point (built off of). It was not developed from the ground up by Chrysler engineers. They took Daimler platforms and developed from them. I never said Daimler built it for them, but it is clearly built off of the Daimler tech base. The Cherokee has parts commonality with the the Mercedes Benz ML platform (notably on the chassis and 4x4 system). When you have two vehicles that take the same parts, it means they came off the same tech base. Chrysler no longer has access to this tech base and hence post Daimler products tend to suck. As another see the example of the Chrysler Crossfire. Almost a total clone of the Benz R170 platform. Identically engine bay and wheel configuration to the SLK320. Vehicle was killed due to poor sales, but it's the best example that shows how much Chrysler engineers were pulling off the Daimler techbase during that time period. They had that base cut out from under them and replaced with a sucky Fiat base, so things are ugly.

Chrysler has very little institutional knowledge in building from the ground up these days, which is why the small Jeeps and the like do suck. Those were builds starting off of Chrysler's own tech base and not Daimler's and they suck. The Compass and Patriot for example come off some farked up joint platform between Chrysler and Mitsubishi. Fiat is killing that platform and replacing it with one of its own (note how Chrysler is not making a new platform in house, they are being handed a Fiat platform to built off of).

/also the Durango is a lengthened variant of the ML platform that was lengthed

dr.zaeus: Bert_Harbinson: small Jeeps

Bought the wife a 2008 Liberty Limited, and it's been the best vehicle we've ever owned.

Sorry, I was referring specifically to the Compass/Patriot. Haven't personally experienced a current-generation Liberty.

i like my ford ranger, i'm going to drive it into the ground.

Drove a friend's rented Charger. I like the new Pentastar V6. Better that the previous 3.5 liter and MUCH better than the POS 2.7 liter embarrassment of a V6 base engine of the previous model.

/interior is worlds better also
//no head room in the back seat though but who cares.

Based on reviews, I get the impression from critics the 200 is a better Sebring. But it's still a Sebring.

Jeep was rated as most reliable domestic. I like my patriot to be honest. It's a nice compact SUV and I get 27 mpg. Chrysler cars from the main brand don't really appeal to me. The 300 is ugly.

soakitincider: i like my ford ranger, i'm going to drive it into the ground.

I always wanted an Omni GLH.

2011 Jeep Patriot: maximum rad.
I love my Jeep more than I care about any political issue, human rights complaint or any form of public discourse.

Chalk me up as another Pentastar fan. They are putting them into Mercedes, and apparently Fiat will be using them too.

Little weird getting used to a 6 speed auto though.

ha-ha-guy: Those are Daimler techs as well. The 8 speed is a giant ripoff of a Benz transmission. As for MPG, 300 hp and 31 mpg has been an option since the mid 2000s with AFM/DOD. You can also get with a straight up DI V6 which Ford and GM have had in production for one and half to two generations of power trains now. It's not impressive, it's them finally catching up to industry standard.

Neither of them are Daimler techs. The engine was developed during the merger and will be used by Daimler. That doesn't mean it's based on Daimler technology. And how, exactly, is a transmission developed and manufactured by ZF a ripoff of a Benz transmission? As for the Charger, I think the important adjective was "large." Show me another large car that offers the same performance and economy.

ha-ha-guy: Reread what I wrote about Daimler. It is built using Daimler's tech base as a starting point (built off of). It was not developed from the ground up by Chrysler engineers. They took Daimler platforms and developed from them. I never said Daimler built it for them, but it is clearly built off of the Daimler tech base. The Cherokee has parts commonality with the the Mercedes Benz ML platform (notably on the chassis and 4x4 system). When you have two vehicles that take the same parts, it means they came off the same tech base. Chrysler no longer has access to this tech base and hence post Daimler products tend to suck. As another see the example of the Chrysler Crossfire. Almost a total clone of the Benz R170 platform. Identically engine bay and wheel configuration to the SLK320. Vehicle was killed due to poor sales, but it's the best example that shows how much Chrysler engineers were pulling off the Daimler techbase during that time period. They had that base cut out from under them and replaced with a sucky Fiat base, so things are ugly.

Which Daimler platforms, specifically, served as the tech base for the current Grand Cherokee? The Grand Cherokee and ML have parts commonality because they're based on a platform that was developed for both vehicles. That doesn't imply anything about the source of the technology.

I don't really see what the Crossfire has to do with anything. Daimler obviously saw the rebadge as a quick way to fill a hole in Chrysler's lineup. That doesn't mean Chrysler was devoid of technology in segments where it was already competing.

Finally, I'm not sure how you can draw conclusions about the effect of the Fiat merger on Chrysler's product line. The merger hasn't existed long enough to produce any products.

fail for subby.

chrysler's profits equal a 1.6% profit margin, and its operations are still burning cash. somehow that $213mm profit turns into a net operating cash outflow of $200mm.....some (completely legal) accounting trickery is going on.

iamevilbear: Jeep was rated as most reliable domestic. I like my patriot to be honest. It's a nice compact SUV and I get 27 mpg. Chrysler cars from the main brand don't really appeal to me. The 300 is ugly.

Disagree on the 300, but I'm with you on the Jeep. Bought the wife a 2011 Patriot back in February, and it's been great. Safe, reliable, and about $10k cheaper than the fugly Rav4 or Escape.

Couldn't care less about Chrysler or Dodge (except the Challenger -- nice car), but Jeep's kicking ass now that they've cleaned out all the shiat Daimler farked up. Hoping to grab a Pentastar Wrangler 2D in the next couple years when I get tired of my '04.

My 2001 Dakota is still running fine. 115k miles, all I have replaced are oil,battery, spark plugs, coolant, and tires. And I'm terrible at doing them on time. Not sure what my next truck will be but I'll drive this one into the ground which looks years away.