"How can a securities fraud of this nature and magnitude be the result simply of negligence?"

indeed

Nabb1: Attorneys file briefs.

Came to say this.

Nabb1: Well, to be more accurate, that's not a brief. Attorneys file briefs. That's the judge's order setting a hearing regarding a proposed consent judgment, with specific questions the court wants addressed by counsel at the hearing.

Can someone explain? Legalese biatchslaps are sometimes hard to spot, and not knowing much of the backstory, it's damn near impossible. I want to know, and it certainly looks like he's saying to the SEC "Why should I impose this fine when it's patently obvious it's a slap on the wrist? Your vague promises of 'future deterrents' aside, how did you even arrive at the figure for the proposed fine? Are you aware that it's laughably small? Would it perhaps not be better to impose the fine on just the bad actors (that the SEC was unable to locate/prosecute) than on the whole organization?"

Nothing in there looks overly "OH SNAP"-y - is it just that a judge finally takes the SEC to task for not functioning as a business watchdog?

// I'm at work. I need a nerd to do my homework for me.

Very interested to hear the answers to these questions. I doubt it will lead to anything but the more you push the machine the more likely it will fall.

Not that I want capitalism to fail, I just don't care. Unless you are a top wage earner, we are all practically serfs to banks, credit agencies, and food producers.

Nabb1: Attorneys file briefs.

I prefer to file boxers.

Hobo Jr.: Very interested to hear the answers to these questions. I doubt it will lead to anything but the more you push the machine the more likely it will fall.

Not that I want capitalism to fail, I just don't care. Unless you are a top wage earner, we are all practically serfs to banks, credit agencies, and food producers.

We just need a massive readjustment of priorities. They need to be knocked down from "overlords" to "part of the system."

why are there not criminal charges being brought? there is such a thing as criminal negligence isn't there?

Dr Dreidel: Nabb1: Well, to be more accurate, that's not a brief. Attorneys file briefs. That's the judge's order setting a hearing regarding a proposed consent judgment, with specific questions the court wants addressed by counsel at the hearing.

Can someone explain? Legalese biatchslaps are sometimes hard to spot, and not knowing much of the backstory, it's damn near impossible. I want to know, and it certainly looks like he's saying to the SEC "Why should I impose this fine when it's patently obvious it's a slap on the wrist? Your vague promises of 'future deterrents' aside, how did you even arrive at the figure for the proposed fine? Are you aware that it's laughably small? Would it perhaps not be better to impose the fine on just the bad actors (that the SEC was unable to locate/prosecute) than on the whole organization?"

Nothing in there looks overly "OH SNAP"-y - is it just that a judge finally takes the SEC to task for not functioning as a business watchdog?

// I'm at work. I need a nerd to do my homework for me.

In a normal world, it would not be particularly Oh Snap-y, but given that many of these token settlements have sailed through with nary an admission of wrongdoing or criminal conviction, it's refreshing to see a judge say that someone has actually done something wrong and the SEC has failed in its obligation to protect the public and they ought to show just cause for this settlement.

I imagine the SEC's response will be somewhere along the lines of "Go fark yourself."

impaler: What don't I understand?

That's pretty much it.

Nick Saban is going to be pissed.

LasersHurt: Hobo Jr.: Very interested to hear the answers to these questions. I doubt it will lead to anything but the more you push the machine the more likely it will fall.

Not that I want capitalism to fail, I just don't care. Unless you are a top wage earner, we are all practically serfs to banks, credit agencies, and food producers.

We just need a massive readjustment of priorities. They need to be knocked down from "overlords" to "part of the system."

Thats not possible though because they don't actually provide any useful function. well, the food producers do but Big Agra is a whole other kettle of fish.

I honestly thought this was about college football and was very, very confused for a few minutes.

/What does UGA have to do with Citi?
//What? It's not like college football isn't big business.

Number 7 will be really interesting.

Seems that the worse that can happen though is that the judge decides not to approve the Final Judgment and then the SEC and Citi just talk for a while and go back to him again...and again...and again...

For those trying to unpack the language, it comes down to this: The judge is tired of seeing the SEC just wrist slap any financial wrongdoing and let the bank off the hook with a civil fine and no criminal prosecution.

He's basically saying: "Do your damn jobs, idiots, and tell me what the hell these assholes were really doing, because I'm going to bring the thunder against them. I'm not signing off on any more of your wrist slaps until I have a trophy case full of bankers' heads."

As for why they're not doing their jobs, well, that's the revolving door between the SEC and Wall Street. The guys they're investigating are former or future co-workers.

/judge is also a Texas fan pissed about Mizzou leaving

12349876: Nabb1: Attorneys file briefs.

I prefer to file boxers.

Link (new window)

Boxer briefs.

Answer to all questions:

We used to and/or want to work for the companies were are currently taking action against and don't want to fark up our gravy train.

Hobodeluxe: why are there not criminal charges being brought? there is such a thing as criminal negligence isn't there?

Nobody to charge, sort of; the judge does seem to be asking why no particular figureheads or people have been identified as a root cause of something too huge to be negligence, and why said people shouldn't bear the blame and fines rather than the entire organization.

mod3072: I imagine the SEC's response will be somewhere along the lines of "Go fark yourself."

We'll send it to committee to discuss this and ways we can improve our standards.

Or in other words "Go fark yourself"

Not a single mention of Cam Newton pay for play scandal. Judge Fail

Ned Stark: LasersHurt: Hobo Jr.: Very interested to hear the answers to these questions. I doubt it will lead to anything but the more you push the machine the more likely it will fall.

Not that I want capitalism to fail, I just don't care. Unless you are a top wage earner, we are all practically serfs to banks, credit agencies, and food producers.

We just need a massive readjustment of priorities. They need to be knocked down from "overlords" to "part of the system."

Thats not possible though because they don't actually provide any useful function. well, the food producers do but Big Agra is a whole other kettle of fish.

Oh, I disagree. Those industries aren't my favorites because of the way they behave, but they're certainly not utterly useless. They do do things.

tomcatadam: Hobodeluxe: why are there not criminal charges being brought? there is such a thing as criminal negligence isn't there?

Nobody to charge, sort of; the judge does seem to be asking why no particular figureheads or people have been identified as a root cause of something too huge to be negligence, and why said people shouldn't bear the blame and fines rather than the entire organization.

I say charge the COO,CFO and the CEO with criminal negligence.

"7) Why is the penalty in this case to be paid in large part by Citigroup and its shareholders rather than by the "culpable individual offenders acting for the corporation?" If the S.E.C. was for the most part unable to identify such alleged offenders, why was this?"

nice

mod3072: : I imagine the SEC's response will be somewhere along the lines of "Go fark yourself."

Agreed. They know that they have the Harvard law school legal mafia on their side. From the fartblast nine, headed by Scalia and his farkboy Thomas, to the White House, headed by Obama and Holder, they already have their asses covered. All they have to do is to get some lower level flunkie to be a patsy and say "I don't rememba" 400 times. It worked for Gonzales and it will work for the SEC.

Hobodeluxe: tomcatadam: Hobodeluxe: why are there not criminal charges being brought? there is such a thing as criminal negligence isn't there?

Nobody to charge, sort of; the judge does seem to be asking why no particular figureheads or people have been identified as a root cause of something too huge to be negligence, and why said people shouldn't bear the blame and fines rather than the entire organization.

I say charge the COO,CFO and the CEO with criminal negligence.

Execute all white color criminals.

winterwhile: here is your fine

for speeding in the future??????? wow

More like; here is your fine for speeding. How far over the speed limit was I? At least 25 mph...

Hobodeluxe: I say charge the COO,CFO and the CEO with criminal negligence.

They'll still find a way to shift blame to patsies.

I mean, you could summarily fine them instead, but getting absolute proof of negligence and wrongdoing first (in a semi-impartial manner) would make everything more...solid.

tomcatadam: Hobodeluxe: why are there not criminal charges being brought? there is such a thing as criminal negligence isn't there?

Nobody to charge, sort of; the judge does seem to be asking why no particular figureheads or people have been identified as a root cause of something too huge to be negligence, and why said people shouldn't bear the blame and fines rather than the entire organization.

But corporations are people!

I don't speak bullshiat aka lawyer-talk.

HallsOfMandos: But corporations are people!

Ah.
Well then, at that...I said nobody.
No physical body to charge in a logical meta-entity like a corporation.

Well, I guess, their physical assets and buildings count. I'd be all for reclaiming and re-purposing those en masse.

PonceAlyosha: Hobodeluxe: tomcatadam: Hobodeluxe: why are there not criminal charges being brought? there is such a thing as criminal negligence isn't there?

Nobody to charge, sort of; the judge does seem to be asking why no particular figureheads or people have been identified as a root cause of something too huge to be negligence, and why said people shouldn't bear the blame and fines rather than the entire organization.

I say charge the COO,CFO and the CEO with criminal negligence.

Execute all white color criminals.

Worse. Put them to work making big rocks into little ones, for life.

Hobodeluxe: tomcatadam: Hobodeluxe: why are there not criminal charges being brought? there is such a thing as criminal negligence isn't there?

Nobody to charge, sort of; the judge does seem to be asking why no particular figureheads or people have been identified as a root cause of something too huge to be negligence, and why said people shouldn't bear the blame and fines rather than the entire organization.

I say charge the COO,CFO and the CEO with criminal negligence.

Oh man wouldn't that be nice? I'd pay a weeks check to see that. Alright Free market hand get to work, bring me my indictment show.

HellRaisingHoosier: I don't speak bullshiat aka lawyer-talk.

It's judge talk and it seems rather straight-forward. The questions are a tiny bit complicated because the issues that he must legally be concerned with (or rather, the ones SEC must be concerned with) are more complex then just "find the corruption and fark it up."

He's basically just telling the SEC to smarten the fark up and asking why they're doing a half-assed and lenient job.

Who thinks this will actually result in Citbank settling for less than the original amount?

/Big money lawyers have they're reputation for a reason. Big money lawyers do not work for the SEC.

phyrkrakr: He's basically saying: "Do your damn jobs, idiots, and tell me what the hell these assholes were really doing, because I'm going to bring the thunder against them. I'm not signing off on any more of your wrist slaps until I have a trophy case full of bankers' heads."

With the obvious caveat being: "And if you can't do that, you're not allowed to just shake them down for a piece of the action."

wingnut396: Answer to all questions:

We used to and/or want to work for the companies were are currently taking action against and don't want to fark up our gravy train.

Thread over.

tenpoundsofcheese: Number 7 will be really interesting.

Seems that the worse that can happen though is that the judge decides not to approve the Final Judgment and then the SEC and Citi just talk for a while and go back to him again...and again...and again...

Wait, you don't think this is yet another example of the Marxist 0bama regime penalizing big business?

Seems like pretty weak allegations and accusations for the bastards that literally ruined the world economy. They're still catering to them but now with a firm wagging the finger.

PonceAlyosha: Hobodeluxe: tomcatadam: Hobodeluxe: why are there not criminal charges being brought? there is such a thing as criminal negligence isn't there?

Nobody to charge, sort of; the judge does seem to be asking why no particular figureheads or people have been identified as a root cause of something too huge to be negligence, and why said people shouldn't bear the blame and fines rather than the entire organization.

I say charge the COO,CFO and the CEO with criminal negligence.

Execute all white color criminals.

When exactly did "yambag" become popular slang?

tomcatadam: He's basically just telling the SEC to smarten the fark up and asking why they're doing a half-assed and lenient job.

Though he doesn't state it verbatim, I think he's asking why a $160 million (minimum) fraud is being fined for only $95 million.

More_Like_A_Stain: PonceAlyosha: Hobodeluxe: tomcatadam: Hobodeluxe: why are there not criminal charges being brought? there is such a thing as criminal negligence isn't there?

Nobody to charge, sort of; the judge does seem to be asking why no particular figureheads or people have been identified as a root cause of something too huge to be negligence, and why said people shouldn't bear the blame and fines rather than the entire organization.

I say charge the COO,CFO and the CEO with criminal negligence.

Execute all white color criminals.

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 160x143]

hehe nice catch

This is the first I've heard of this so-called Rakoff... but from that one document I would be alright if the US just replaced the SCOTUS with 9 clones of him. The SEC is economic theatre, it's time someone with authority called them on their lack of attention or effectiveness.

Chagrin: Though he doesn't state it verbatim, I think he's asking why a $160 million (minimum) fraud is being fined for only $95 million.

I guess I should say then, he's asking why they're doing their job badly.