People said the same thing about the iMac (no floppy drive? How stupid!) and the Air (no CD drive? How stupid!) as they did about the iPhone (no user-replaceable battery? How stupid!).
And in every case, a few years later, it was seen as a smart design choice when HP or Dell or someone did the exact same thing. This too shall pass.

As long as it wasn't Apple doing it, it's okay.

So what exactly is it about WP7, dumbmitter, that is a copy of iPhone? Aside of the aforementioned battery and on-board storage? That is has a screen? That it can be used to make phone calls? You have a choice. You can buy an HTC Titan with a removable battery and storage slot, or you can buy Nokia 800. I like Nokia better (so far).

Who greenlights this crap?

Theaetetus: People said the same thing about the iMac (no floppy drive? How stupid!) and the Air (no CD drive? How stupid!) as they did about the iPhone (no user-replaceable battery? How stupid!).
And in every case, a few years later, it was seen as a smart design choice when HP or Dell or someone did the exact same thing. This too shall pass.

A smart design choice that you can't remove/replace the battery?

"And in every case"... speaking of cases, how'd that whole "you're holding it wrong" work out for the einsteins at apple, sweet cheeks?

/eyeroll.jpg

//apple fanbois can be quiet humorous at times when fellating the corpse of steve jobs.

I Am The Egg Matt Drudge Smears Upon His Body: //apple fanbois can be quiet quite humorous at times when fellating the corpse of steve jobs.

/ftfm

//but then again, i suppose the apple fanbois would be quiet when their mouths are full.

///I will admit - I shelled out $300 for an iTouch some years ago. Its nickname soon became "my $300 calculator".

////the iTouch = a compilation of extremely stupid design decisions.

The lack of expandable memory with a high price on the "memory upgrade" models is just sound marketing. Stupid, but good for profits.

I Am The Egg Matt Drudge Smears Upon His Body: A smart design choice that you can't remove/replace the battery?

Yes, when you get longer battery life and a lighter device in exchange, it's a net positive. For 80% of the market, the iPhone goes all day without a recharge and won't need replacing before the device is replaced. The other 20% can buy a non-Apple device, or an external secondary battery.

how'd that whole "you're holding it wrong" work out for the einsteins at apple, sweet cheeks?

Just fine. It's not a real-world issue. The iPhone 4 gets better reception than its predecessor, even without a case. This "fatal flaw" didn't stop the iPhone 4 from becoming the best selling handset ever, right up until its successor was announced.

//apple fanbois can be quiet humorous at times when fellating the corpse of steve jobs.

Classy.

I Am The Egg Matt Drudge Smears Upon His Body: ///I will admit - I shelled out $300 for an iTouch some years ago. Its nickname soon became "my $300 calculator".

////the iTouch = a compilation of extremely stupid design decisions.

So, you're too stupid to figure out how to use an iPod Touch? No wonder you hate Apple products. I have a Touch and use it all the time, for a great many things. It's quite the clever device: a pocket computer carefully disguised as a music player.

But why am I bothering trying to talk sense to you? You go on with your irrational hatred of other people's choices in consumer goods and your unhealthy obsession with Steve Jobs' cock. Me? I'm going to enjoy life.

You probably don't want an SD card slot on any Windows Phone 7 device. It just causes problems.

You have to get special Windows Phone 7 compatible cards, because they require an extremely high level of performance to not make the phone lag. You also can't remove them from the device once integrated, or add a new one without doing a factory data reset. They become part and parcel of the phone memory, which the device sees as one contiguous block.

I've had this conversation about SD cards many times with end users. They just don't get it. Not including the SD card slot is a far superior plan.

Slaxl: There are a lot of manufacturers saying "well, Apple seem to have gotten away with it, so i'll give it a go". I don't care if you like iPhones and iOS or not, it has no effect on my life, it's not a terrible thing, but given the choice of being able to swap out batteries and memory cards or not, I can't imagine the argument against it.

It allows the manufacturer to make the battery something like 50% larger, because it no longer needs a slide body, power port, safety casing just for the battery, etc. Apple just wraps a big battery in tin foil and welds the phone closed. And now you can imagine the argument against it.

iPhone 4S 32gb = £599 (including mark up and tax)

iPhone 4S 64gb = £699 (including mark up and tax)

64gb SD = aound £60 (including mark up and tax)

32gb SD = around £30 (including mark up and tax)

So

iPhone 4S 32gb - 32gb SD + 64gb SD = iPhone 4S 64gb
or
£599 - £30 + £60 = £629


Apple = coonts

gmoney101: iPhone 4S 32gb = £599 (including mark up and tax)

iPhone 4S 64gb = £699 (including mark up and tax)

64gb SD = aound £60 (including mark up and tax)

32gb SD = around £30 (including mark up and tax)

So

iPhone 4S 32gb - 32gb SD + 64gb SD = iPhone 4S 64gb
or
£599 - £30 + £60 = £629


Apple = coonts

what the fark is a that gibberish? go back to farking japistan with that shiat

adenosine: You probably don't want an SD card slot on any Windows Phone 7 device. It just causes problems.

You have to get special Windows Phone 7 compatible cards, because they require an extremely high level of performance to not make the phone lag. You also can't remove them from the device once integrated, or add a new one without doing a factory data reset. They become part and parcel of the phone memory, which the device sees as one contiguous block.

I've had this conversation about SD cards many times with end users. They just don't get it. Not including the SD card slot is a far superior plan.

Interesting. I hadn't read or heard that, but I also haven't looked at WP7 devices closely. I'm currently running Android, but in a couple of years, who knows?

I Am The Egg Matt Drudge Smears Upon His Body: speaking of cases, how'd that whole "you're holding it wrong" work out for the einsteins at apple, sweet cheeks?

Oh yeah, I heard about that. They had to close down the whole company and everything. It was a sad day for Cupertino, CA and all the gay people in New York.

Fark Me To Tears: Theaetetus: This too shall pass.

Please. The damned thing will be obsolete before it's six months old, so it's not like the battery will wear out in that time. As for the memory, it's better that it's not expandable, so that way you will replace your phone with a new one once you decide that there's just not enough memory to meet your needs.

This is all part of a master plan to keep the economy going.

Hell, if it goes like the Kin, the battery doesn't even have to be rechargeable! Also, why do you need expandable memory if there is nothing to put on it? It all works out great.

If they can't have removable SD because of performance issues then why not offer larger storage phones and not at a crazy expensive price? Permanent 32GB would keep a lot of people happy for a few years; even if they keep adding music, movies and photos to their device.

Because of errors, Because of errors subby. Due to is an adjecitve, not an adverb.

/pet peeve
/Mother F*cker, that annoys me.

gmoney101: iPhone 4S 32gb = £599 (including mark up and tax)

iPhone 4S 64gb = £699 (including mark up and tax)

64gb SD = aound £60 (including mark up and tax)

32gb SD = around £30 (including mark up and tax)

So

iPhone 4S 32gb - 32gb SD + 64gb SD = iPhone 4S 64gb
or
£599 - £30 + £60 = £629


Apple = coonts

The difference is that the memory in the iPhone is actually fully usable without rooting the phone.

adenosine: You probably don't want an SD card slot on any Windows Phone 7 device. It just causes problems.

You have to get special Windows Phone 7 compatible cards, because they require an extremely high level of performance to not make the phone lag. You also can't remove them from the device once integrated, or add a new one without doing a factory data reset. They become part and parcel of the phone memory, which the device sees as one contiguous block.

I've had this conversation about SD cards many times with end users. They just don't get it. Not including the SD card slot is a far superior plan.

This bears repeating. WP7 was designed to be a sort of middle ground between the walled garden of iOS and the community garden gone wild of Android. They have 3rd party manufacturers for the phones, but there are some very tight restrictions on them. The restrictions are there for a reason.

I have a Samsung Focus, one of the few phones that has an SD card slot that behaves how you described. I used it without the card for a couple of days before I decided I wanted one. After I bought a card and stuck it in, there was a noticeable increase in load times. I knew what I was getting into, and decided the extra space would be worth it, but for my next phone a couple years from now, there will probably be enough integrated memory in the phone that we don't even have to have this conversation.

So far I love my WP7. It's a very slick phone with an awesome user interface. I can get through the menus in my phone much faster than somebody with a comparable Android. The program library, while not as big as iOS or Android, definitely has enough to satisfy my needs. The only thing I've noticed that is missing is more specialty apps, like I want the OBD-II scanner app that iOS and Android have... But that's really about it.

Theaetetus: People said the same thing about the iMac (no floppy drive? How stupid!) and the Air (no CD drive? How stupid!) as they did about the iPhone (no user-replaceable battery? How stupid!).
And in every case, a few years later, it was seen as a smart design choice when HP or Dell or someone did the exact same thing. This too shall pass.

No floppy or CD drive perhaps, but no user replaceable battery? Seems like that would force users to have to pay a repair shop just to replace a battery instead of the battery being in a way that they can replace it themselves. Just because someone can afford an iPhone doesn't mean they won't want to be frugal in other areas.

You can still replace the battery in a "non-removable" iProduct, it just takes a little time and research.

You can still replace the OS in an Android device, it just takes a little time and research.

/owns both iOS and Android products
/generally would rather have the option of replacing the battery & adding more memory myself instead of having teh smallestest and thinneststs!

I don't care if the bloody battery on Apple products lasts for a year on a single charge - the point of being able to replace the battery, for many users of smartphones, is to swap in a charged one when leaving the thing plugged in isn't convenient. If you Apple folks are happy in your walled garden, that's great, but don't pretend it's not a walled garden - you're having your experience with your device largely controlled by the people who made it.

Slaxl: Terrified Asexual Forcemeat: Slaxl: There are a lot of manufacturers saying "well, Apple seem to have gotten away with it, so i'll give it a go". I don't care if you like iPhones and iOS or not, it has no effect on my life, it's not a terrible thing, but given the choice of being able to swap out batteries and memory cards or not, I can't imagine the argument against it.

It allows the manufacturer to make the battery something like 50% larger, because it no longer needs a slide body, power port, safety casing just for the battery, etc. Apple just wraps a big battery in tin foil and welds the phone closed. And now you can imagine the argument against it.

OK, that's a fair point, I assumed the battery the phones were of similar size so the batteries would be of similar size. I didn't realise making slide rails for a case to open took up enough space to adversely affect the battery. So that's one argument. Now having friends with iPhones who still need to take chargers with them just in case they run out of power in a busy day... I'm still not sold. The battery has more juice yet still runs out. Simple solution is to allow hot swapping for those who may be out and can't keep it charging on their desk.

I mean, we're talking about seriously powerful computers in our pockets. No one should be expecting batteries to last for weeks with constant usage, or even a day with really heavy usage, until we get some far more serious battery tech knowledge. I don't think it's a huge problem to say "I should have a spare battery, in case this one runs out of power". It certainly shouldn't be a flashpoint between people who have different phones. We should all be united in our desire to have the comfort and safety of knowing we can be prepared for any eventuality.

Either way, you're carrying something if you just can't be without your phone. Also, there are spare battery packs you can plug phones, or even laptops, to charge via 5 volt USB.

adenosine: You probably don't want an SD card slot on any Windows Phone 7 device. It just causes problems.

You have to get special Windows Phone 7 compatible cards, because they require an extremely high level of performance to not make the phone lag. You also can't remove them from the device once integrated, or add a new one without doing a factory data reset. They become part and parcel of the phone memory, which the device sees as one contiguous block.

I've had this conversation about SD cards many times with end users. They just don't get it. Not including the SD card slot is a far superior plan.

You're trolling, right? Tell me you're trolling.

Unobtanium: Interesting. I hadn't read or heard that

Because it's bullcrap.

So maybe they will sell.

Jackdragna: I don't care if the bloody battery on Apple products lasts for a year on a single charge - the point of being able to replace the battery, for many users of smartphones, is to swap in a charged one when leaving the thing plugged in isn't convenient. If you Apple folks are happy in your walled garden, that's great, but don't pretend it's not a walled garden - you're having your experience with your device largely controlled by the people who made it.

Just like how my car doesn't have a touch screen GPS nav. DAMN YOU, WALLED GARDEN OF FOR LINCOLN MERCURY

Kar98: You're trolling, right? Tell me you're trolling.

From http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2450831 (new window)

If your Windows Phone 7 device contains an SD card, you should think of it as a permanent component of your phone, not as removable storage. The Windows Phone 7 operating system treats the SD card as an integrated part of the phone. This is in contrast to other devices, where you can use an SD card to increase the memory available to the device at any time or to transfer files to other devices.

adenosine: Kar98: You're trolling, right? Tell me you're trolling.

From http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2450831 (new window)

If your Windows Phone 7 device contains an SD card, you should think of it as a permanent component of your phone, not as removable storage. The Windows Phone 7 operating system treats the SD card as an integrated part of the phone. This is in contrast to other devices, where you can use an SD card to increase the memory available to the device at any time or to transfer files to other devices.

OK. I take that back. JFC.

Theaetetus: People said the same thing about the iMac (no floppy drive? How stupid!) and the Air (no CD drive? How stupid!) as they did about the iPhone (no user-replaceable battery? How stupid!).
And in every case, a few years later, it was seen as a smart design choice when HP or Dell or someone did the exact same thing. This too shall pass.

Removing outdated technologies is the exact opposite of removingability to upgrade as is the case with no upgradable storage, and not allowing one to remove the battery is very different from that too. It's sort of like saying "Well Windows 7 was great because it killed IE6, therefore any feature Microsoft removes will always be a good idea."

adenosine: You probably don't want an SD card slot on any Windows Phone 7 device. It just causes problems.

You have to get special Windows Phone 7 compatible cards, because they require an extremely high level of performance to not make the phone lag. You also can't remove them from the device once integrated, or add a new one without doing a factory data reset. They become part and parcel of the phone memory, which the device sees as one contiguous block.

I've had this conversation about SD cards many times with end users. They just don't get it. Not including the SD card slot is a far superior plan.

I love having my 32GB card in my Focus, not sure what you are complaining about. Yes once it's in it's in, but this gives me 40GB of storage, I can't see me using all of that up until I am done with the phone. I filled my 8GB onboard up in 6months. You are doing a disservice to people telling them not to get one. There is a list of known working cards, basically Class 4 Sandisk. You don't want to do any research so you will just tell people no?

Desmo: Because of errors, Because of errors subby. Due to is an adjecitve, not an adverb.

/pet peeve
/Mother F*cker, that annoys me.

"Due" is an adjective, adverb, and a noun.

"Due to" is an idiom and is used correctly here, due to the fact that it is synonymous with "Because of" or "Attributable to".

TNel: I love having my 32GB card in my Focus, not sure what you are complaining about. Yes once it's in it's in, but this gives me 40GB of storage, I can't see me using all of that up until I am done with the phone. I filled my 8GB onboard up in 6months. You are doing a disservice to people telling them not to get one. There is a list of known working cards, basically Class 4 Sandisk. You don't want to do any research so you will just tell people no?

After the first dozen 'I stuck my SD card from my old phone into my new phone but I can't see my pictures' and 'I took my SD card out of my phone to get the pictures onto my computer, but it now my phone won't boot after I formatted my card cuz windows told me to' type calls, you begin to wonder if it's worth it.

If there is a known list of working cards, Microsoft isn't publishing it. Their own literature recommends not fooling with it.

adenosine:

If there is a known list of working cards, Microsoft isn't publishing it. Their own literature recommends not fooling with it.

confirmed working..data stays after a soft reset

Centon 8GB Class 6
Kingston 4GB Class 4
Kingston 16GB Class 4
Microcenter 16GB Class 2
Patriot 16GB Class 2
PNY 8GB Class 4
PNY 16GB Class 2
SanDisk 8GB Class 2
SanDisk 16GB Class 4
Samsung 8GB class2
Samsung 16gb class2

Unstable/Unsure:

Kingston 8GB Class 4
Kingston 32GB Class 4
SanDisk 16GB Class 2
SanDisk 32GB Class 2
MicroCenter 16gb class 2

Confirmed Not Working.... No data after soft reset

A-Data 4GB Class 6
A-Data 8GB Class 6
A-Data 16GB Class 6
Lexar 16GB Class 6
Transcend 8GB Class 6
Transcend 16GB Class 6

Kar98: adenosine: Kar98: You're trolling, right? Tell me you're trolling.

From http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2450831 (new window)

If your Windows Phone 7 device contains an SD card, you should think of it as a permanent component of your phone, not as removable storage. The Windows Phone 7 operating system treats the SD card as an integrated part of the phone. This is in contrast to other devices, where you can use an SD card to increase the memory available to the device at any time or to transfer files to other devices.

OK. I take that back. Jfarkeep in mind the design docs for WP7 were altered whilst Samsung were busy making their handsets, the major change being the SD card slot being moved to 'not consumer accessible'. Which makes sense as it turns on the Secure of SecureDigital, is exceptionally fussy about the cards it works with and well, the wrong card (i.e. slow) will just make the whole phone grind.

It's more there so a OEM can make a cheap handset (skimp on the flash) and offering via multiple SKU's with different storage amounts... at the usual mark-ups such things attract than to be of any use to you or I.

Hmm.

iFixit's how to remove an iPhone 4's battery pack. (new window)

It is "No user serviceable parts inside" not "It can't be replaced". If you can't follow this or similar guides then... that's kind of your problem. I'd also be happy to break out my screwdrivers, guitar picks and such for a price.

I guess the markup on batteries is nowhere near enough to justify not just spending that money on selling more overpriced peripherals?

Theaetetus: it was seen as a smart design choice when HP or Dell or someone did the exact same thing

No, I see it as annoying as always.

I Am The Egg Matt Drudge Smears Upon His Body: Theaetetus: People said the same thing about the iMac (no floppy drive? How stupid!) and the Air (no CD drive? How stupid!) as they did about the iPhone (no user-replaceable battery? How stupid!).
And in every case, a few years later, it was seen as a smart design choice when HP or Dell or someone did the exact same thing. This too shall pass.

A smart design choice that you can't remove/replace the battery?

"And in every case"... speaking of cases, how'd that whole "you're holding it wrong" work out for the einsteins at apple, sweet cheeks?

/eyeroll.jpg

//apple fanbois can be quiet humorous at times when fellating the corpse of steve jobs.

And the haterbois are so very easy to troll.

"I like the product I bought."

"YOU FELLATE CORPSES YOU PLATFORM SYCOPHANT!!!!!!"

How do you retards convince yourself you're in the right? How does it make sense to take out your frustrations against other people caring too much about they platform by cranking it up to 11 yourself?

TNel: adenosine:

If there is a known list of working cards, Microsoft isn't publishing it. Their own literature recommends not fooling with it.

confirmed working..data stays after a soft reset

Centon 8GB Class 6
Kingston 4GB Class 4
Kingston 16GB Class 4
Microcenter 16GB Class 2
Patriot 16GB Class 2
PNY 8GB Class 4
PNY 16GB Class 2
SanDisk 8GB Class 2
SanDisk 16GB Class 4
Samsung 8GB class2
Samsung 16gb class2

Unstable/Unsure:

Kingston 8GB Class 4
Kingston 32GB Class 4
SanDisk 16GB Class 2
SanDisk 32GB Class 2
MicroCenter 16gb class 2

Confirmed Not Working.... No data after soft reset

A-Data 4GB Class 6
A-Data 8GB Class 6
A-Data 16GB Class 6
Lexar 16GB Class 6
Transcend 8GB Class 6
Transcend 16GB Class 6

What an awesome user experience this is.

/that was sarcasm if you didn't get that

Slaxl: Terrified Asexual Forcemeat: Slaxl: There are a lot of manufacturers saying "well, Apple seem to have gotten away with it, so i'll give it a go". I don't care if you like iPhones and iOS or not, it has no effect on my life, it's not a terrible thing, but given the choice of being able to swap out batteries and memory cards or not, I can't imagine the argument against it.

It allows the manufacturer to make the battery something like 50% larger, because it no longer needs a slide body, power port, safety casing just for the battery, etc. Apple just wraps a big battery in tin foil and welds the phone closed. And now you can imagine the argument against it.

OK, that's a fair point, I assumed the battery the phones were of similar size so the batteries would be of similar size. I didn't realise making slide rails for a case to open took up enough space to adversely affect the battery. So that's one argument. Now having friends with iPhones who still need to take chargers with them just in case they run out of power in a busy day... I'm still not sold. The battery has more juice yet still runs out. Simple solution is to allow hot swapping for those who may be out and can't keep it charging on their desk.

I mean, we're talking about seriously powerful computers in our pockets. No one should be expecting batteries to last for weeks with constant usage, or even a day with really heavy usage, until we get some far more serious battery tech knowledge. I don't think it's a huge problem to say "I should have a spare battery, in case this one runs out of power". It certainly shouldn't be a flashpoint between people who have different phones. We should all be united in our desire to have the comfort and safety of knowing we can be prepared for any eventuality.

That was one of the selling points to get my particular smartphone: I looked online and found out the OEM battery was only six bucks, which seemed more than reasonable. During times where I have access to external power, I ensure both batteries get charged, then throw the spare in my bag. When I need it, Bam! My phone is instantly fully recharged. And six dollars? That's cheaper than the wall charger /cable OEM combo.