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(SeattlePI)   Step one: Inform federal marshals that your Sovereign Citizen movement intends to arrest local mayors. Resulting arrests and investigation means we never get to find out what steps two or three are   (seattlepi.com) divider line 76
    More: Stupid, United States Marshals Service, state ownership, tax fraud, paroles, gun rights, Mount Vernon, United States Attorney, The Law Center  
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5969 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Oct 2011 at 5:17 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-10-24 01:44:19 PM
The local Bible-banger channel used to have a show on in the early morning hosted by one of the Sovereign Citizen types. It was usually good entertainment over one's coffee -- especially when he'd go on a hysterical screed about how using Postal Abbreviations for the names of the states was in direct defiance of the Constitution or how fluoride in the water was proven to turn kids into homocommunists.

Just like the guys in TFA this guy had his own "Sovereign Christian Citizen #1" license plate (wouldn't they all be #1?) and got jacked up for driving without a registration on a state road. At his hearing he apparently got up and started screaming about how the court had no authority over him because the flag had yellow fringe, making it a naval flag and he was not in the navy.

One would think it would be relaxing to be that crazy.
 
2011-10-24 01:50:18 PM
Sometimes I have the nagging suspicion that these guys are more right than anyone else.

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Just like the guys in TFA this guy had his own "Sovereign Christian Citizen #1" license plate (wouldn't they all be #1?)


Presumably not if you have more than one car...
 
2011-10-24 01:57:42 PM
I just want to know this: How does someone who believes that the government has no power or ability to exert its will upon them arrive at the idea that they have the power or ability to exert their will on other people (i.e. by arresting local mayors)?
 
2011-10-24 02:02:02 PM

RexTalionis: I just want to know this: How does someone who believes that the government has no power or ability to exert its will upon them arrive at the idea that they have the power or ability to exert their will on other people (i.e. by arresting local mayors)?


Well, there's your problem...you're trying to apply logic to crazy.
 
2011-10-24 02:10:02 PM
Ah, "Sovereign Citizen." A nice term for a redneck who, starting around January 20, 2009 for some strange reason, suddenly decided that paying taxes is wrong.
 
2011-10-24 03:42:00 PM
I thought it went this way:

media.vintagecotton.com
 
2011-10-24 04:28:15 PM

RexTalionis: I just want to know this: How does someone who believes that the government has no power or ability to exert its will upon them arrive at the idea that they have the power or ability to exert their will on other people (i.e. by arresting local mayors)?


They think they're "sovereign citizens". As in, no laws apply to them that they don't consent to.

Which, of course, totally means they're within their rights to show up at a guy's house with a posse of 50 armed "concerned citizens" and drag him out under citizen's arrest. It's not a "lynching" or a "kidnapping" when guy being dragged away is white.
 
2011-10-24 05:22:21 PM
3 is obviously profit... just because...
 
2011-10-24 05:22:34 PM

kingoomieiii: Which, of course, totally means they're within their rights to show up at a guy's house with a posse of 50 armed "concerned citizens" and drag him out under citizen's arrest. It's not a "lynching" or a "kidnapping" when guy being dragged away is white.


If they have funny uniforms on and assault rifles, then it's ok.
 
2011-10-24 05:22:35 PM
What a Sovereign Citizen may look like:

masseffect.neoseeker.com

\hot like thermal clip
 
2011-10-24 05:26:06 PM

Rev. Skarekroe: Sometimes I have the nagging suspicion that these guys are more right than anyone else.


Crystal meth is a hell of a drug.
 
2011-10-24 05:26:51 PM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: The local Bible-banger channel used to have a show on in the early morning hosted by one of the Sovereign Citizen types. It was usually good entertainment over one's coffee -- especially when he'd go on a hysterical screed about how using Postal Abbreviations for the names of the states was in direct defiance of the Constitution or how fluoride in the water was proven to turn kids into homocommunists.

Just like the guys in TFA this guy had his own "Sovereign Christian Citizen #1" license plate (wouldn't they all be #1?) and got jacked up for driving without a registration on a state road. At his hearing he apparently got up and started screaming about how the court had no authority over him because the flag had yellow fringe, making it a naval flag and he was not in the navy.

One would think it would be relaxing to be that crazy.


Most of the crazy people I've seen tend to be the opposite, often over reacting at the slightest thing.
 
2011-10-24 05:28:26 PM
The big problem (okay, it's hard to pick just one) with all these 'Freedom' movements is they're all about freedom for themselves, but not for you. It's all very conveeeeeeenient which freedoms they reserve or allow. Much like your personal God always has the same opinion as you do.
 
2011-10-24 05:29:15 PM
Well, if they're "soverign citizens", and they've renounced all ties to the USA, i'm sure they can provide proper immigration papers when they step off their soverign soil, right?

Or maybe they didn't think they're cunning plan all the way through....
 
2011-10-24 05:29:18 PM
Well as long as they dont use they roads they wont pay taxes on Im fine with em.
 
2011-10-24 05:29:46 PM
I would love for these guys to get into some wild shootout with ATF/FBI/LOCALPIGS just have them ALL go down in a blaze of glory, just have to hose off the mess afterwards.
 
2011-10-24 05:30:11 PM

RexTalionis: I just want to know this: How does someone who believes that the government has no power or ability to exert its will upon them arrive at the idea that they have the power or ability to exert their will on other people (i.e. by arresting local mayors)?


The same way that hyey believe banks have no right to own a home, but they, the sovereign citizen, has the right to move into an empty house and claim it as their own.
 
2011-10-24 05:31:04 PM
Support the 'self defense' movement. Yea it's a Right and Freedom to protect yourself and others from nutjob cops and Mayors who don't give a shiat about that thing called Democracy and Freedom to peaceful protest.

/Compare it to what happened to Qaddafi.
//the total opposite, is what happened to g.w. Bush and dick cheney in Canada recently(cops protecting them from the self defense movement).
///'White shirts' days are numbered, so they'd better join up with the rebellion against the 1%ers.
 
2011-10-24 05:33:15 PM

Quasar: Ah, "Sovereign Citizen." A nice term for a redneck who, starting around January 20, 2009 for some strange reason, suddenly decided that paying taxes is wrong.


Maybe it's were I live, but these folks have been against paying taxes for a long time under various different names. I remember when the ones I know were big Gritz supporters, and obviously the older people were involved in other right-wing movements before even that.
 
2011-10-24 05:34:39 PM
Hurray for domestic terrorists!
 
2011-10-24 05:38:10 PM
What are their Fark IDs?
 
2011-10-24 05:42:04 PM

meat0918: Hurray for domestic terrorists!



Silly, terrorists are neither white nor Christian. And since there is no easily accessible engine for searching the googolplex of information on the internet to find direct examples of white, Christian Americans committing acts of terrorism, my point shall remain forever valid.
 
2011-10-24 05:42:30 PM
www.venturefans.org

The only Sovereign citizen I'll recognize. :)
 
2011-10-24 05:42:30 PM

MadMattressMack: What a Sovereign Citizen may look like:

[masseffect.neoseeker.com image 330x257]

\hot like thermal clip


Are you saying that individuals such as the one pictured hope to be ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL of local governments in the near future?
 
2011-10-24 05:42:41 PM

Tron-tonian: Well, if they're "soverign citizens", and they've renounced all ties to the USA, i'm sure they can provide proper immigration papers when they step off their soverign soil, right?


Why should they provide documentation to the enforcers of the occupying government's dictates? That government is there illegally. The government should provide its papers! Or something like that. Sorry, I'm new to this whole nutjob thing...
 
2011-10-24 05:43:05 PM
Are these the same nutcases that we have here in Australia claiming "Freeman on the Land" bullshiat.
Which is just an excuse here to run up credit card bills and try not to pay them back.
 
2011-10-24 05:43:24 PM
Sigh. Naval jacks and ensigns (those are flags to you landlubbers) used aboard ship never, ever have gold fringe on them. Gold fringe means fancy and expensive flag that's fancier looking. That's it.

Also, the law of the sea has absolutely nothing to do with U.S. courts or legal procedures. It's a basis for treaties regulating sovereign exploitation of the oceans and national boundaries at sea; it's not even a legal code.

/Sailor
//Now, carry on drawing up your writs of attainment establishing County Patriot sovereignty, or whatever other crazy-ass shiat you were planning.
 
2011-10-24 05:45:26 PM

D_S_W: Are these the same nutcases that we have here in Australia claiming "Freeman on the Land" bullshiat.
Which is just an excuse here to run up credit card bills and try not to pay them back.


Yes, exactly. We had a bunch of Montana Freemen who holed up against the feds back in the '90s. Lucky for them, they did it after the Branch Davidian fiasco, so the feds waited them out instead of coming in guns ablazing. All the normal people in Montana were on the feds' side.
 
2011-10-24 05:45:35 PM

D_S_W: Are these the same nutcases that we have here in Australia claiming "Freeman on the Land" bullshiat.
Which is just an excuse here to run up credit card bills and try not to pay them back.


yeah, that sounds like the same kind of crazy.
 
2011-10-24 05:48:05 PM
i love how all the RON PAUL types believe that because the fed is rather sketchy, they should not have to pay taxes. but the government should still provide essential services to them. and that government services should be better.
 
2011-10-24 05:48:09 PM

Get Lost: Support the 'self defense' movement. Yea it's a Right and Freedom to protect yourself and others from nutjob cops and Mayors who don't give a shiat about that thing called Democracy and Freedom to peaceful protest.

/Compare it to what happened to Qaddafi.
//the total opposite, is what happened to g.w. Bush and dick cheney in Canada recently(cops protecting them from the self defense movement).
///'White shirts' days are numbered, so they'd better join up with the rebellion against the 1%ers.


Hey, look, y'all, I think I found one! Don't scare it; they can be dangerous when cornered.
 
2011-10-24 05:48:54 PM

ordinarysteve: i love how all the RON PAUL types believe that because the fed is rather sketchy, they should not have to pay taxes. but the government should still provide essential services to them. and that government services should be better.


In their defense, they do smoke a lot of pot.
 
2011-10-24 05:50:21 PM
Oh I miss the West. I used to live in Montana and Idaho. I now live in California but I still consider Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Utah, Colorado, Eastern Washington and Eastern Oregon as "the West". There was a local guy in Montana who declared his ranch an independent country because he said the BLM land surveyors were recruited by the New World Order to draw the boundaries wrong. He printed his own money and tried to use it at Wal-Mart and was arrested. He later shot a sheriffs deputy who was "trespassing" on his property. Then he shot himself. Good times.
 
2011-10-24 05:52:57 PM
We've got bigger issues. They're torn the viaduct down and traffic is worse than ever.
 
2011-10-24 05:57:40 PM

Dimensio: MadMattressMack: What a Sovereign Citizen may look like:

[masseffect.neoseeker.com image 330x257]

\hot like thermal clip

Are you saying that individuals such as the one pictured hope to be ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL of local governments in the near future?


No, it'll be more of an indoctrination process. It takes longer, but you can take control of more than one at a time.
 
2011-10-24 05:58:23 PM
These folks sound like 20 pounds of crazy in a 5 pound sack.
 
2011-10-24 05:58:41 PM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: One would think it would be relaxing to be that crazy.


no, i don not think paranoid schizophrenia would be relaxing at all, by all accounts it is most unpleasant
 
2011-10-24 05:59:37 PM

superfudge73: Oh I miss the West. I used to live in Montana and Idaho. I now live in California but I still consider Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Utah, Colorado, Eastern Washington and Eastern Oregon as "the West". There was a local guy in Montana who declared his ranch an independent country because he said the BLM land surveyors were recruited by the New World Order to draw the boundaries wrong. He printed his own money and tried to use it at Wal-Mart and was arrested. He later shot a sheriffs deputy who was "trespassing" on his property. Then he shot himself. Good times.


You have to admire his conviction to his delusions.

I love how so many Americans claim that tax is theft and then happily drive on roads, send their kids to school, flush a toilet, drink tap water, etc. Why do so many people think that infrastructure if free.

Worse, why doesn't anyone stop to think that the US government is incredibly new compared to the governments of most countries. It was entirely set up by the founding fathers. Every aspect of the current US government is a product of the generations of free elections held since 1776 or thereabouts. IMHO you have exactly the government you deserve.
 
2011-10-24 06:00:21 PM

superfudge73: Oh I miss the West. I used to live in Montana and Idaho. I now live in California but I still consider Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Utah, Colorado, Eastern Washington and Eastern Oregon as "the West". There was a local guy in Montana who declared his ranch an independent country because he said the BLM land surveyors were recruited by the New World Order to draw the boundaries wrong. He printed his own money and tried to use it at Wal-Mart and was arrested. He later shot a sheriffs deputy who was "trespassing" on his property. Then he shot himself. Good times.


I like a story with a happy ending.
 
2011-10-24 06:01:05 PM

RexTalionis: I just want to know this: How does someone who believes that the government has no power or ability to exert its will upon them arrive at the idea that they have the power or ability to exert their will on other people (i.e. by arresting local mayors)?


The only thing that makes a government is the ability to win when you decide to use force.
 
2011-10-24 06:05:42 PM
FTFA: "At base, sovereign citizens believe ... that they have the right to violently oppose government tyranny."

FTFDOI: "But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

Hmmmm....

The nutter was at least right in one respect, I guess.
 
2011-10-24 06:07:07 PM

Quasar: Ah, "Sovereign Citizen." A nice term for a redneck who, starting around January 20, 2009 for some strange reason, suddenly decided that paying taxes is wrong.


Sorry, this doesn't have anything to do with Obama or being white. The Sovereign Citizen movement is mostly white, but the Redemption movement is multi-ethnic and both have existed for over 25 years.
 
2011-10-24 06:10:00 PM

clovis69: Quasar: Ah, "Sovereign Citizen." A nice term for a redneck who, starting around January 20, 2009 for some strange reason, suddenly decided that paying taxes is wrong.

Sorry, this doesn't have anything to do with Obama or being white. The Sovereign Citizen movement is mostly white, but the Redemption movement is multi-ethnic and both have existed for over 25 years.


And both seem to intertwine a bit with Dominionists as well.
 
2011-10-24 06:12:56 PM
I think some of their arguments is that the people of the US assigned their sovereignty to the gov without sacrificing their ability to reestablish their own. We the people >the fed gov. > US citizens. So if you are a non- US citizen and non-resident. (by their definition) you are above the gov. They base everything on Common law and state the US gov. is a corporation and everything is contract law now and if you do not participate, then there is no counter-party to their contract.

FBI lists them as domestic terrorists.
The extremist are over the top but some offer some laughs.
 
2011-10-24 06:13:12 PM

mbillips: Yes, exactly. We had a bunch of Montana Freemen who holed up against the feds back in the '90s. Lucky for them, they did it after the Branch Davidian fiasco, so the feds waited them out instead of coming in guns ablazing. All the normal people in Montana were on the feds' side.


Even Bo Gritz thought they were insane after he went into negotiate a settlement with them. I can't find a reference but back then I heard a quote from Gritz to the FBI about "I'd make them feel some pain about now." If you are so wacky that Bo Gritz and Ward Weaver are on the side of the Feds, you might want to rethink your manifesto.
 
2011-10-24 06:18:42 PM

Lehk: Mr. Coffee Nerves: One would think it would be relaxing to be that crazy.

no, i don not think paranoid schizophrenia would be relaxing at all, by all accounts it is most unpleasant


That's no joke.
 
2011-10-24 06:19:18 PM
Huh. And people say I'm the crazy one...
 
2011-10-24 06:25:29 PM

Lehk: Mr. Coffee Nerves: One would think it would be relaxing to be that crazy.

no, i don not think paranoid schizophrenia would be relaxing at all, by all accounts it is most unpleasant


then why do they seem to quit their meds so often?
 
2011-10-24 06:25:38 PM

RexTalionis: a that they have the power or ability to exert their will on other people (i.e. by arresting local mayors)?


I suspect logic and reasoning left these folks long ago
 
2011-10-24 06:28:43 PM

Sticky Hands: Lehk: Mr. Coffee Nerves: One would think it would be relaxing to be that crazy.

no, i don not think paranoid schizophrenia would be relaxing at all, by all accounts it is most unpleasant

then why do they seem to quit their meds so often?


I've been wondering. Since we have developed implantable long term birth control, why haven't we developed something like that for these patients?
 
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