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(Boston Globe)   Man feels too drunk to drive, so he parks car to sleep it off. Cop busts him for DWI anyway   (boston.com) divider line 613
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26700 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Sep 2003 at 11:07 AM (10 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2003-09-29 01:42:10 PM
this is total bullshiat. I would never condone drinking and driving but to bust someone because they are in the car is bullshiat. he had enough wits to not drive.

it is like attempted bank robbery, I mean if you are planning but not actually start doing it.

or attempted murder

or even how can someone get tried and convicted of murder if they dont have a weapon, a body, or any hard evidence, only a piece of paper or comouter disk with written plans on doing it.

bullshiat. at least if this guy was busted, they should call it what it is conspiriscy to commit DWI
 
2003-09-29 01:42:11 PM
jtielke:
He committed a crime, just because the police didn't catch him in the act doesn't mean he isn't guilty. There was enough evidence there to show that he had broken the law and put peoples lives at risk. Does a cop have to see you rob a store for you to be convicted?

If your BAC is >1.0 when you are asleep in your car, there's no proof that it was >1.0 an hour ago when you were driving.
 
2003-09-29 01:42:11 PM
karlandtanya, how do you know that he wasn't over the limit when he pulled out of the bar parking lot, but that last drink caught up with him on the road and he pulled over?

He may not have actually driven while over the limit at all.
 
2003-09-29 01:43:15 PM
if you knew what drunk drivers were going to do, you probably wouldn't need DUI laws.

No? It would be ok for them to drive drunk, so long as you knew they were going to do it?
 
2003-09-29 01:44:19 PM
karlandtanya

I called your analogy retarded and irrelevant because it is. If we were arguing about spare ribs and I said that my purple cow makes green poopy, you would be free to call that irrelevant and retarded. I'm getting frustrated with you because you're arguing a completely situation than I am.

I said that in the current situation the guy was in--driving drunk--the RIGHT thing to do was to get off the road. You said it wasn't. I'm not arguing that he was right in the first place, just that he did the right thing at the moment. Why can you not understand this?
 
2003-09-29 01:44:33 PM
"Therefore, while you're still in possession/operation of the car, you still have the weapon."

I would argue no. By stopping driving, and parking, he has shown his judjemnt is sound, and by no longer driving, he nolonger poses a threat.
 
2003-09-29 01:46:27 PM
The keys are what got him popped, not the car, not being drunk. If you are drunk and in a car thats parked HIDE THE KEYS before a cop comes along. Cops have been busting people like this for years, but only if they have the keys. A car without keys is as worthless as a submarine on the surface.
 
2003-09-29 01:46:47 PM
How do you people have time to read all this?
 
2003-09-29 01:47:13 PM
the cop could use some farking judgement and determine whether this person is a threat or not.

I'd say he did.

The guy had already driven drunk once.

Then he lied to a cop about it (said it was from overeating).

And he fell asleep with the engine running.

strike three, go to jail.
 
JPN
2003-09-29 01:47:30 PM
re: I do not think that sitting in a car in park with the engine running = driving.

haha. one to many breakfast beers this mornin?
 
2003-09-29 01:47:59 PM
myrna...

Excuse me, but all post are directed at me. They pop up right on this monitor in front of me ;-). Don't blame me for reading them and keeping up with the arguments in each of them.

You think the law is stupid.
You do not think he violated the law, because he was not "driving."
You are wrong on both counts.

See - it's not that hard.

Carry on.
 
2003-09-29 01:48:02 PM
2003-09-29 01:31:04 PM sthayashi
Cokemonkey
I'm betting that while this guy was driving, the alcohol hit him. It can take a long time for the bad stuff to hit you, but when it does, it sucks ASS. Personal example, I was drinking moderately to heavily this past Friday night. My last drink is at around 1am. When 1:45 came around, it hit me and I felt nauseated with a headache. Definitely wasn't in a position to drive. If you'd asked me how I was feeling at 1:20, I would have said great.
I betcha that's what happened to this guy. He was probably feeling great when he got into his car, but 20 minutes later, he was like "Damn, I'd better pull over." And then we know the rest of the story.


alright, now we know where each other stands. I happen to think he knew how drunk he was, but yes, I definitely know the feeling of being sober one minute, shiatfaced the next, and it sucks. And what do you do in that case? Find someplace to pull over, I guess, and do exactly what this guy did, and take your chances. There are dozens of bad analogies floating around here, so heres another one: cop pulls you over, gives you a ticket because one of your brakelights is out. You didnt hurt anyone, and you didnt know it out when you started driving, but nevertheless, you were breaking the law whether you knew it or not. So if you felt fine leaving on friday night you didnt know you were breaking the law, but you were, and if you get busted after the fact for making the best of a bad situation, all that can be said is it sucks to be you. Honestly, I do sympathize. If youre still sober enough to know whats going on, take two seconds to throw the keys in the trunk and get in the backseat, this ought to at least help once it gets to court. But if youre all of a sudden so drunk you cant even think of doing that, then dont tell me you were sober when you got in the car, thats bullshiat.
 
2003-09-29 01:48:27 PM
2003-09-29 01:40:39 PM anotherbob
Are you talking about this case or another? Unless the laws you're talking about actually apply in the state of MA, then raising problems with other states' laws says nothing about this guy's situation.

This guy wasn't fifty feet from his car. He was in the car, sitting in the driver's seat. The key was in the ignition, the car was turned on. Those are the details of this case.

There's no question of whether he's in control of the vehicle. He's a gear shift away from moving forward (or reverse, but he probably wouldn't have known the difference).

The law didn't encourage him not to sleep it off. He could have taken the key out of the ignition and slept in the back seat. Both measures ensure that an accidental movement wouldn't start the car rolling into something or someone.

Instead of doing that, he just stopped and, as a result, got cited.


I've only been arguing the legitimacy of the DUI laws when operating the vehicle has never been involved. He's probably guilty, so far as i can see, assuming he was drunk when he started driving (not only had a fit of drunkeness hit him that made him pull over).

I hope that clears it up, bob.
 
2003-09-29 01:48:40 PM
He should have drove home as fast as possible. Theory is you are on the road for a shorter period of time, therefore your odds of meeting a cop are less!
 
2003-09-29 01:49:05 PM
KyngNothing -

the rule is "in immediate control".

Could you reach over and start your car with little effort, if the keys were in the trunk? No.

could a cop reasonablt presume that you had just thrown the keys in there?

no.
 
2003-09-29 01:49:53 PM
You think the law is stupid.
That is my opinion.

You do not think he violated the law, because he was not "driving."
I said that in my opinion, he was not driving--which means I think the law is stupid, which leads back to point 1.

You are wrong on both counts.
How can it be bullshiat to state a preference, Barry?
 
2003-09-29 01:50:05 PM
MyrnaMinkoff

I cannot refute your purple poopy argument.

I bow to your superior intellect.

;)
 
2003-09-29 01:50:14 PM
This happened to a friend of mine. The car was off, but the keys where in the ignition. Cop busted him anyway!!!! He blew a .08.

Who learned a lession that day?
Who benifited by taking him out of the car that was not running?
What should he do the next time he feels too drunk to drive?

The cop should have his balls handed to him. If I where the judge, I would have let my friend go with classes, but no points or fines. I would have taken the cop into my chambers and told him to see if he could solve the buldging "cold case" files instead of hotdogging people doing the right thing.

Cop was wrong
Judge was wrong
Driver was right
 
2003-09-29 01:50:36 PM
this almost happened to me (comments for being an asshat welcome because it was stupid). luckily though while sitting puking out my door I pulled the keys because of the damn door dinger. they still took my liscense away for six months though. Better than a full out DWI and the insurance that goes with it. although it was a good thing to stop, it would've been a whole lot smarter for me to not drive at all, of course, when have you seen drunk people do smart things? If they did they wouldn't get drunk.
 
2003-09-29 01:50:38 PM
So if a cop leaves me alone, drunk, in the passenger seat of his cruiser, and I can reach over and start his car, then I'm techically drunk driving. (assuming his car isn't already running, which they usually seem to be)
 
2003-09-29 01:51:14 PM
sthayashi

"Or the cop could use some farking judgement and determine whether this person is a threat or not. "

Yeah--why should this cop worry abotu the liability to himself or the department if he makes the wrong call--or if this drunk is a particulalry good liar?

(Of course, he had determined if this guy was a threat--via FST's, PBt's, and presumably later, a intoxilyzer test. That's the onyl means a cop should be using to determine if a a person displaying signs of impairment is a threat).

"Most drunks don't wake up from their sleep that easily. "
Yep, that's a standard I want to go by when judging if a drunk might drive off and kill someone. "Most of the time". Probably only will get someone killed one in a hundered, thousand times. That persons life isn't worth troubling anyone about, is it?
 
2003-09-29 01:51:35 PM
Fit of drunkeness??? LOL

I have never had booze "sneak up" on me. It is a steady progression from giggling to retching on the floor.
 
2003-09-29 01:52:54 PM
So what have I learned from the article and this thread.

Cops can be big time idiots.
Madd are idiots who worship the law often at the expense of common sense.
Depending on the state you should always try to make it home because the punishment is the same as trying to sleep it off.
 
2003-09-29 01:53:36 PM
hey krammer, chug some morgan, it definatly won't be a steady progression
 
2003-09-29 01:54:20 PM
DeanMoriarty
What if i drive an SUV, where should I put them then?
What if the car has fold-down seats/a passthru?

It would only take a few more seconds to get them from there than my pocket...

(I'm not arguing the legal definitions here, just curious about where these laws end...)
 
2003-09-29 01:54:22 PM
Everyone should just stay home and get drunk.

Problem solved
 
2003-09-29 01:54:45 PM
I know someone who served on jury duty of a case even more asinine than this: The guy was sitting in the driver's seat of a parked car, car wasn't running, he didn't even *have* the keys (he was waiting for the owner of the car to come back and drive him home) ... Cop ended up searching the guy and the car and found no keys... he got busted for DWI anyway.

Jury overturned it, thankfully.
 
2003-09-29 01:54:51 PM

HappyDaddy:

Has it occured to any of you geniuses that the reason it is illegal to drive drunk is on account of the fact that your freakin judgment is impaired? Can you follow that logical progression to the drunk sitting in the running car in the parking lot? We are to trust that he won't change his mind? Perhaps the proper response would have been to stake out his car?

Damn, people - think.


There are degrees of drunkenness. It's possible to be too drunk to drive because your reflexes have been impaired, yet still retain the good judgement to realize it.
 
2003-09-29 01:55:16 PM
karlmer -

if it weren't considered entrapment, yes.

I can't imagine many cops on DUI patrol are going to put you in the front seat with the key nearby.

Nice try.
 
2003-09-29 01:56:24 PM
Attila Kiss????
 
2003-09-29 01:57:19 PM
2003-09-29 01:51:35 PM Krammer


Fit of drunkeness??? LOL

I have never had booze "sneak up" on me. It is a steady progression from giggling to retching on the floor.


Bad term. I've had a progression, personally, where it completely sneaks up on me after the fact. Thankfully i was home by that point, quick drive in my case. I'm thinking, for this case, the situation was different.

Dont make fun. I cry when you make fun.
 
2003-09-29 01:57:25 PM
I'd say he did.
The guy had already driven drunk once.
Then he lied to a cop about it (said it was from overeating).
And he fell asleep with the engine running.
strike three, go to jail.

Where did you read that he lied about it to a cop? You don't know if he DID get sick from overeating (have you eaten the food served at most bars?). We actually have no idea what caused him to be nauseous. What was his BAC? Incidently, if it was a lie, he told it IN COURT. I don't buy this reasoning. I call your strike a ball.

Falling asleep with the engine running in a parking lot is not a crime, nor is it dangerous to anyone. Period. Your 3rd strike is a ball as well. Try again.
 
2003-09-29 01:57:29 PM
I've been left alone drunk in the front seat of a cruiser, car running, while the cop talked with someone else and decided what to do before, despite your faulty imagination.

The law is an ass; perhaps if it were respectable it would be respected.
 
2003-09-29 01:57:41 PM
Keys in the ignition is written into the law in my state. I hear some officers are lenient if you do something like in this article. I think the law is written that way to prevent someone from pulling over after they see the blue lights and pretending like they weren't driving.

Why are DUI/DWI laws so tough and some seem to make no sense? Because most of the ppl who get popped put money into the system. You get a lawyer, pay for an alcohol assessment, pay for driving classes/alcohol "treatment", pay the fine, pay to get your license back, etc.

It would be political suicide for a politician to stand up for the rights of drinkers. Now, I'm not advocating drunk driving. I'm just saying that things are out of hand in most states. There are some counties in which Mad Mothers sit in court all day long and keep tally of how many DWI cases a judge dismisses. As I understand it, they don't care why it was dismissed... they hold it against the judge regardless of the reason and work to make sure the judge doesn't get re-elected.

Sign me up for DAMM!
 
2003-09-29 01:57:44 PM
(I'm not arguing the legal definitions here, just curious about where these laws end...)

My opinion? if you have made a good faith effort to ensure the keys are not within your immediate reach - an ourward display that you are not intending to operate the vehicle, you should get off.



Frank N. Furter -

if you're chugging Morgan and driving, enjoy prison.
 
2003-09-29 02:00:31 PM
A guy is drunk and pulls over to pass out in a mall parking lot, from overeating?

riiiiight. That one's right down the middle of the plate.

Fallnig asleep with the engine running, while drunk, IS a crime.

strike three.
 
2003-09-29 02:02:56 PM
My opinion is that if you have made a good faith effort to ensure that you aren't driving drunk, by pulling over and going to sleep when you realize that you might be, you should get off.
 
2003-09-29 02:03:16 PM
karlmer


I've been left alone drunk in the front seat of a cruiser, car running, while the cop talked with someone else and decided what to do before, despite your faulty imagination.


Not in a DUI situation you haven't.
 
2003-09-29 02:03:37 PM
Bologna's parents should of just save the school yard bully some effort and named the kid Butt Plug.
 
2003-09-29 02:03:58 PM
myrna...

Who's Barry?

It is unlawful to possess certain explosive devices. Are those laws irrational/inappropriate, given the fact that one is not required to have actually blown up anything or anyone in order to have committed a crime?
 
2003-09-29 02:05:02 PM
DeanMoriarty, the officer might not have known I was drunk at the time, but the fact remains.
 
2003-09-29 02:05:16 PM
good faith effort goes out the window when you've already broken the law.

"I'm trying not to break any more laws, officer."
"Ok, you're free to go."
 
2003-09-29 02:06:13 PM
The case before the Appeals Court hinged largely on whether the mall parking lot was considered a public way, where drunken driving laws apply. Kiss argued it was not because at 1:48 a.m., the time of the police officer's report, the stores were closed.

But the Appeals Court disagreed, saying there were 24-hour services that might draw people to the parking lot around the clock: an ATM, newspaper boxes, and pay phones.


So it appears he might have gotten off if there hadn't been these ATM's and newspaper boxes there?? (I guess since it's private property...?)
 
2003-09-29 02:06:41 PM
Cokemonkey
That's true. I didn't know about the key thing until today. I'll try and remember it in the future. I bet you though that this guy didn't know it either.

Incrdbil
Yep, that's a standard I want to go by when judging if a drunk might drive off and kill someone. "Most of the time".
Guess what? You get to live with most of the time no matter what the fark you do. Most of the time people don't come into your office shooting people left and right. Most of the time, your bank doesn't get robbed. Most of the time you make it home alright without getting into a car accident.

How many civil rights do you intend to step on to be sure that no life is in no possible way endangered? May I suggest a stricter enforcement of speeding and tailgating laws then first, since they cause far more accidents and fatalities than drunk people sleeping in their parked cars
 
2003-09-29 02:07:33 PM
drunk or not-

if you're claiming that while a cop was actually investigating something you may have been involved in, he left you in the front seat with the motor running, you're full of beans.

Plus, other than the entrapment idea, you couldn't be considered to be in "care and control" of the vehicle, because the cop would be.
 
2003-09-29 02:07:56 PM
It is unlawful to possess certain explosive devices. Are those laws irrational/inappropriate, given the fact that one is not required to have actually blown up anything or anyone in order to have committed a crime?

Some of these explosive devices can be used with a license, much like a car. Some of them are primarily used as weapons, which is not the case for a car. Really a horrible analogy.
 
2003-09-29 02:08:20 PM
None of us actually want to drive drunk... there's just no other way to get the car home.

Seriously though.. come on. The car magically appeared in that parking lot? Guilty. BTW - I know the area - he's lucky the cop showed up.
 
2003-09-29 02:08:43 PM
if you're claiming that while a cop was actually investigating something you may have been involved in, he left you in the front seat with the motor running, you're full of beans.

Nope. He asked me a few questions, then put me in the car and asked my friend a few questions, then let us go. No beans.
 
2003-09-29 02:10:32 PM
I guess it's been said a few times:

Hey headline jackoff, that's a well-known law. Dura lex sed lex, farkwit.
 
2003-09-29 02:11:25 PM
Good faith does not go out the window, if you didn't know you were breaking the law. If he thought he was ok to drive, but realized he wasn't and pulled over, that's in good faith. It's hard for him to prove, but the burden of proof isn't supposed to be on him anyway.
 
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