Looks up, sees ceiling fans spinning counter-clockwise, sighs from boredom and returns to sports section.

A Serenity quote? I love you, Subby!

Subby link didn't say why but I'll save you all the time and quote it off of NASCAR.com

The violations -- the windshields were found to be too thin -- were discovered in opening inspection at Talladega Superspeedway, site of Sunday's Sprint Cup event.

The plans are on there!

The problem with MWR is they don't have the funding of a Hendrick Motorsports. They can't take parts like these down to tolerances within NASCAR's own margin of error or use equipment more pecise than NASCAR's at-track templates. So they take risks. They go old school. They actually break rules they hope won't get checked. And they get caught.

It makes me sad knowing so many NASCAR fans have it backwards regarding cheating.

The best of the best cheated -- going back to Smokey Yunick, through the 80s where you know Bill Elliott's Thunderbird had some crazy shiat going on, and he and every other driver trying to keep up blew their engines to pieces from time to time with unapproved parts.

The problem is that the rules have gotten stricter, there's only one damn car style left, and it comes down to the fact that cheating is riskier than just spending boatloads of money on running right against the line. Jimmie Johnson & co aren't lame because they cheat. They're lame because they don't have to.

I know I'll be rooting for MWR this weekend.

/Gonna try to submit another Saturday general motorsports thread
//Not sure if I should reference Dan, let alone make a joke...
///He was supposed to be in the V8 Supercars at Surfer's Paradise

Heh. This time Mikey's the only car that *isn't* illegal of their bunch.

Sad to watch this year, I was hoping Truex would have a better year. Ah well, maybe next year.

Twist2005: A Serenity quote? I love you, Subby!

you dolt!

Jensaarai: The problem with MWR is they don't have the funding of a Hendrick Motorsports. They can't take parts like these down to tolerances within NASCAR's own margin of error or use equipment more pecise than NASCAR's at-track templates. So they take risks. They go old school. They actually break rules they hope won't get checked. And they get caught.

It makes me sad knowing so many NASCAR fans have it backwards regarding cheating.

The best of the best cheated -- going back to Smokey Yunick, through the 80s where you know Bill Elliott's Thunderbird had some crazy shiat going on, and he and every other driver trying to keep up blew their engines to pieces from time to time with unapproved parts.

The problem is that the rules have gotten stricter, there's only one damn car style left, and it comes down to the fact that cheating is riskier than just spending boatloads of money on running right against the line. Jimmie Johnson & co aren't lame because they cheat. They're lame because they don't have to.

I know I'll be rooting for MWR this weekend.

/Gonna try to submit another Saturday general motorsports thread
//Not sure if I should reference Dan, let alone make a joke...
///He was supposed to be in the V8 Supercars at Surfer's Paradise

I've only been following NASCAR regularly for about a decade - before that sporadically, and with only a passing interest. Hell, I didn't have a favorite driver until Brad Keselowski came along. But I know the sport's history well. And it makes me sick that if Smokey Yunick was around today, they'd have run him out of the sport like he was pure evil. That kills me - Yunick was a crazy sum'biatch. But damn if he wasn't cool. Good point about the #48 team too; I'd never looked at it that way.

And the fines are RIDICULOUS. They just about ran Carl Long(yeah, I know he's never going to be a big time driver) out of the sport because his engine was a miniscule measurement larger than the specifications(It was an Ernie Elliott engine - makes you wonder if one of the old-timers thought he found a rule to bend?). They fined one of the smallest independents on the circuit $200,000 and suspended him for something like 12 races(as well as a completely over the top and pointless 200 point fine). As I recall, the suspension was reduced; the record fine was not. Long hasn't made a Cup start since, and likely never will again(he still hasn't been able to pay the fine, to my knowledge). He has been racing for smaller teams in the lower two touring series', though.

And you can have MWR. I'm rooting for Penske South(yeah, I know they're not really "underfunded" per se, but they're not exactly on level ground with the top teams, either.

I wouldn't mention Wheldon in any headline, unless it's a reference in passing, or implied. NASCAR's tribute to him(the pillar decal and helmet patch) makes me happy, though.

I'm not sure I even have the stomach for this weeks race....

Nascar really needs to get back to its roots of seeing who has the fastest car and is the best driver instead of just being about who's the best driver.

FiendishFellow05: I wouldn't mention Wheldon in any headline, unless it's a reference in passing, or implied. NASCAR's tribute to him(the pillar decal and helmet patch) makes me happy, though.

Yeah, I was just wonderin' cause the V8 Supercar race was supposed to have a bunch of international drivers participating, including Helio and Gil De Ferran, and others will be in it. Tony Kanaan, Will Power, and Wheldon were supposed to be in it. So they've named a trophy after Wheldon for the top ranking non-Aussie tomorrow.

-----

Meanwhile, Jimmie Johnson is saying Indycar shouldn't run on ovals anymore (new window). Because he sucks.

Jensaarai: The problem with MWR is they don't have the funding of a Hendrick Motorsports. They can't take parts like these down to tolerances within NASCAR's own margin of error or use equipment more pecise than NASCAR's at-track templates. So they take risks. They go old school. They actually break rules they hope won't get checked. And they get caught.

It makes me sad knowing so many NASCAR fans have it backwards regarding cheating.

The best of the best cheated -- going back to Smokey Yunick, through the 80s where you know Bill Elliott's Thunderbird had some crazy shiat going on, and he and every other driver trying to keep up blew their engines to pieces from time to time with unapproved parts.

The problem is that the rules have gotten stricter, there's only one damn car style left, and it comes down to the fact that cheating is riskier than just spending boatloads of money on running right against the line. Jimmie Johnson & co aren't lame because they cheat. They're lame because they don't have to.

I know I'll be rooting for MWR this weekend.

/Gonna try to submit another Saturday general motorsports thread
//Not sure if I should reference Dan, let alone make a joke...
///He was supposed to be in the V8 Supercars at Surfer's Paradise
MWR has the backing of Toyota, Toyota builds their engines, they get the exact same technical support JGR does all this not including the money coming from NAPA and Aarons and now Five Hour Energy(Would you like to see how much money 5 hour is going to pay MWR? its something like 8-10 million).
Furthermore let me take you back to the 2007(i think?) Daytona 500 where Waltrip had Sterno in his engine.

To say Waltrip is going "old school' is an insult to Smokey Yunick, Richard Petty and all the greats who founded this sport. Albiet MWR doesnt have the funding HMS does but they are by no means short on cash

Jensaarai: FiendishFellow05: I wouldn't mention Wheldon in any headline, unless it's a reference in passing, or implied. NASCAR's tribute to him(the pillar decal and helmet patch) makes me happy, though.

Yeah, I was just wonderin' cause the V8 Supercar race was supposed to have a bunch of international drivers participating, including Helio and Gil De Ferran, and others will be in it. Tony Kanaan, Will Power, and Wheldon were supposed to be in it. So they've named a trophy after Wheldon for the top ranking non-Aussie tomorrow.

-----

Meanwhile, Jimmie Johnson is saying Indycar shouldn't run on ovals anymore (new window). Because he sucks.

Well, Johnson later clarified that he meant "high-banked" ovals(pretty much all of them?). I'm not saying he's right, just clarifying his statement(an understandably rash one).

Why would someone modify a windshield to gain an advantage? At most you could save a pound, maybe a pound and a half if you went paper thin. Three windshields from 2 different teams and one team with a windshield that passed? I'm going to guess manufacturer defect is to blame rather than team modification.

wickedj: To say Waltrip is going "old school' is an insult to Smokey Yunick, Richard Petty and all the greats who founded this sport. Albiet MWR doesnt have the funding HMS does but they are by no means short on cash

You make fair points.

However, in the world of .016 IN templates NASCAR warning the teams with *even more money than MWR* to pretty-please not take that to .008 IN, a team actually having the balls to keep cheating *at all* is the closest we're going to get to "old school."

It sucks, but I'll take what I can get.

wickedj: Jensaarai: The problem with MWR is they don't have the funding of a Hendrick Motorsports. They can't take parts like these down to tolerances within NASCAR's own margin of error or use equipment more pecise than NASCAR's at-track templates. So they take risks. They go old school. They actually break rules they hope won't get checked. And they get caught.

It makes me sad knowing so many NASCAR fans have it backwards regarding cheating.

The best of the best cheated -- going back to Smokey Yunick, through the 80s where you know Bill Elliott's Thunderbird had some crazy shiat going on, and he and every other driver trying to keep up blew their engines to pieces from time to time with unapproved parts.

The problem is that the rules have gotten stricter, there's only one damn car style left, and it comes down to the fact that cheating is riskier than just spending boatloads of money on running right against the line. Jimmie Johnson & co aren't lame because they cheat. They're lame because they don't have to.

I know I'll be rooting for MWR this weekend.

/Gonna try to submit another Saturday general motorsports thread
//Not sure if I should reference Dan, let alone make a joke...
///He was supposed to be in the V8 Supercars at Surfer's Paradise
MWR has the backing of Toyota, Toyota builds their engines, they get the exact same technical support JGR does all this not including the money coming from NAPA and Aarons and now Five Hour Energy(Would you like to see how much money 5 hour is going to pay MWR? its something like 8-10 million).
Furthermore let me take you back to the 2007(i think?) Daytona 500 where Waltrip had Sterno in his engine.

To say Waltrip is going "old school' is an insult to Smokey Yunick, Richard Petty and all the greats who founded this sport. Albiet MWR doesnt have the funding HMS does but they are by no means short on cash

MWR is incredibly OVERFUNDED based on performance. They get more support from Toyota than any other team gets from any manufacturer, and always have. And they suck. Bad. And they cheat. In horribly stupid ways. Rocket fuel, anyone? Fark them, they're a waste of space and a leading cause of self-inflicted cautions.

Jensaarai: Jimmie Johnson & co aren't lame because they cheat. They're lame because they don't have to.

The 48 team simply can afford to cheat and cover their tracks well.

Its interesting to see that more than one team has been caught for Illegal windshields all of a sudden? That's never been seen before IMO.

How the fark do you measure the thickness of a windshield when it is in a car/truck? I would think that they would be sealed in pretty well, and at least for passenger cars the glue takes a few days to cure fully. I guess you could have some sort of caliper that goes around the A piller or a light beam/reflector on the inside.

Of course, I don't think there is a single bolt in those cars that is 'stock'.

wrenchboy: Jensaarai: Jimmie Johnson & co aren't lame because they cheat. They're lame because they don't have to.

The 48 team simply can afford to cheat and cover their tracks well.

Its interesting to see that more than one team has been caught for Illegal windshields all of a sudden? That's never been seen before IMO.

Who else? All I see is Waltrip-based teams.

the biggest redneck here: wrenchboy: Jensaarai: Jimmie Johnson & co aren't lame because they cheat. They're lame because they don't have to.

The 48 team simply can afford to cheat and cover their tracks well.

Its interesting to see that not more than one team has been caught for Illegal windshields all of a sudden? That's never been seen before IMO.

Who else? All I see is Waltrip-based teams.

In my rush to post I omitted a word, there
fixed it for clarification

Jizzy Johnson can still DIAF

TheGreatGazoo: How the fark do you measure the thickness of a windshield when it is in a car/truck? I would think that they would be sealed in pretty well, and at least for passenger cars the glue takes a few days to cure fully. I guess you could have some sort of caliper that goes around the A piller or a light beam/reflector on the inside.

Lasers or magnetic field measurement devices. Calipers are being replaced in lots of items being measured these days....

Seekrit truck series thread?

Wallace & Hornaday are crazy.

Jensaarai: Seekrit truck series thread?

Wallace & Hornaday are crazy.

Any idea what the hell just happened with the ThorSport trucks? That was one bizarre wreck....


And I would seriously laugh my ass off if Wallace let Hornaday push him the entire race, and then shafted him and stole the win at the end.

FiendishFellow05: Any idea what the hell just happened with the ThorSport trucks? That was one bizarre wreck....

They were so far back practicing the 2 truck tandems and swaps that there doesn't seem to have been a camera on em at all. A rare ESPN-like fail by SPEED, considering the championship implications.

The theory seems to be one of the trucks cut a left rear tire (Sauter, I think) down and that's what took them both out. Scratch that, they're saying the other truck in front of them blew a tire and they wrecked trying to avoid it.

And I would seriously laugh my ass off if Wallace let Hornaday push him the entire race, and then shafted him and stole the win at the end.

This is what I am hoping for, too. Mike Wallace is too good at these trucks at restrictor plate tracks to settle in. It's not like he can win a ride with KHI next year by playing nice. Heh. If they make it to the end, I imagine we'll see a side by side finish with those two.

Apparently the 16 blew a tire a collected the ThorSport guys. Whatta mess.

And Kyle Busch has officially gone to "F**k this" mode.

It was pretty obvious that Parker kid was way too inexperienced to keep that up. Or... WTF Todd?

Saw that coming. Bodine and Kligerman needed to split up - Todd's truck looked INCREDIBLY uncomfortable behind the 29(almost makes one wonder if Todd is too focused on his engine temperature...)

FiendishFellow05: Saw that coming. Bodine and Kligerman needed to split up - Todd's truck looked INCREDIBLY uncomfortable behind the 29(almost makes one wonder if Todd is too focused on his engine temperature...)

Yeah.

Countdown until somebody trying to push Ricky Carmichael makes this race official? When I saw him leading that pack, I got a sick feeling in my stomach. He's the least lucky driver out there. It'll be a miracle if he doesn't get turned before this is done.

Someone finally broke up the Terrible Twosome up there.

Come on, someone get hooked up with Max Papis. That guy winning a stock car race of any form would be gold.

That'd be awesome.

Todd Bodine's truck looks like it wants to wreck anyone it pushes. This is the 3rd partner he's had like that.

Jensaarai: That'd be awesome.

Todd Bodine's truck looks like it wants to wreck anyone it pushes. This is the 3rd partner he's had like that.

Maybe he'll figure out at some point he needs to be pushed, not pushing. That truck is just not working when he pushes.

Whoops, Dillon/Busch just pushed Wallace down on to the apron.

OUCH. That 84 just pounded the wall.

Whoa! Good save by the 33!

Now we're in for one hell of a shootout/clusterfark.

Really? Debris caution after half a lap? Someone must've dropped that coming to the green, otherwise NASCAR is retarded.

Jensaarai: Really? Debris caution after half a lap? Someone must've dropped that coming to the green, otherwise NASCAR is retarded.

I thought I saw a wedge wrench bouncing around, lol. There was definitely debris on the track.

NASCAR being retarded I'm not debating.

And here we go again...

Wow. Austin Dillon just learned a hard lesson. And Kyle Busch needs a new partner(Max Papis!!! lol...).

FiendishFellow05: Jensaarai: Really? Debris caution after half a lap? Someone must've dropped that coming to the green, otherwise NASCAR is retarded.

I thought I saw a wedge wrench bouncing around, lol. There was definitely debris on the track.

NASCAR being retarded I'm not debating.

And here we go again...

Austin Dillon just Ambrose'd himself. Now Sauter is back on the lead lap. This may be the most hilarious championship battle of the 3 series.

FiendishFellow05: Wow. Austin Dillon just learned a hard lesson. And Kyle Busch needs a new partner(Max Papis!!! lol...).

Busch Papis! Yes!

-----

Wow, looking at the replay, looks like NASCAR was nice only knocking him that far back.

I think Hornaday waited too long. Good for Mike Wallace!

Glad to see Mike Wallace get himself a long overdue win.

Carmichael and Buescher looked like they were about a lap away from really making a challenge.

Jensaarai: Glad to see Mike Wallace get himself a long overdue win.

Carmichael and Buescher looked like they were about a lap away from really making a challenge.

They definitely were. And oh man, did Austin Dillon look PISSED. No one to blame but himself. Next time, he'll know better. That was just bad.

That's awesome - Mike's thrilled beyond words. I hope tomorrow's race proves as interesting(but I ain't holding my breath...).

Nascar may as well go IROC style and just build identical cars for everyone.

Billified: Why would someone modify a windshield to gain an advantage? At most you could save a pound, maybe a pound and a half if you went paper thin. Three windshields from 2 different teams and one team with a windshield that passed? I'm going to guess manufacturer defect is to blame rather than team modification.

Davey Allison won the 1992 Daytona 500 with a laid back windshield. Robert Yates was on stage at Barett-Jackson auction last year listing the "winshield Modification" to the list of the car's features when he was selling it.

With Bill Elliott's Thunderbirds supposedly it was narrower than the rules allowed and special precautions were taken to keep it from being parked next to another Thunderbird as supposedly you would be able to tell right away it wasn't as wide.

In NASCAR it's only cheating if you get caught. Heck, I can't even point fingers at NASCAR. Had a nice conversation over a few beers with an ex-F1 chassis designer who happened to have designed a Le Mans winning LMP team at the time. In 30 minutes I learned more cheats than I'll learn in the rest of my life.

I'll give you a freebie. On the LMP cars at the time they had really, really small intake restrictors to keep the hp in check. In order to ensure that no air comes in from other sources the test the tech guys used was to remove intake filters and put both hands over the intake openings. If the car was "legal" it would stall. If it kept running it would mean air was getting in from another source and it was illegal.

So what did the team do? They coded the ECU to (at idle) watch for a sudden drop in air pressure that matched what happened when the marshals put their hand over the intakes and if they saw that event, cut the motor

This is when it gets really clever. They built a fake wiring harness (literally went nowhere) and jammed it between the two halves of the air intake box leaving a 1" gap all the way around the rear of the box. They did it that way so if someone saw it they would say "damn that rookie crew guy, sorry!!". The car made 70+hp more than any other car and won LMP1 at Le Mans that year.

Dodgy windshields? Amateurs.

From Lee-Bob Waltrip, Darryl and Michael Waltrip's nephew on the iracing.com forums:

At the last old car Daytona race (July 07) there was a certain team who needed to qualify on speed. This team mounted a "hidden" switch within reach of the driver that reversed the polarity of the trans cooler fans, which sucked air from underneath the car and moved it inside the car...where did it go then? The air was "mysteriously" directed out of the car via some intentional gaps in the interior that was blamed on bad welding. These interior gaps were in such a place where the air could be moved by nothing more than the vacuum created by the car going along at speed.

Also, the switch that dropped the trunk with Ricky Rudd was also used by Bill Davis when Randy LaJoie drove his Cup car in 94 I think. They had a cable and pulley system rigged up thru the frame rails that would essentially compress the springs in the rear end to lower the entire car. They used a separate battery and two DeWalt style drills.

My dad was involved in several "cheating"operations in his day. He once milled and cut a fake radio out of a piece of solid mallory. He made knobs, painted it, etc, weighed about 25 lbs. Had it mounted low and to the left in the car, where you want weight to be. He also discovered that back in the early 90's, flat paint went through the air better than gloss paint or clearcoat. Western Auto wouldn't go for it though. Nowadays, some teams hand paint everything and clear over it 7-8 times to make the skin smooth, some teams just put decals on them and clear over those, etc.

When DW drove for Hendrick back in the late 80's, my dad was racing karts almost every weekend. He would buy the Hendrick engine guys a case of beer and a couple pizzas and have them work on his kart motors. One particular instance, he spent several hours and lots of money with one of his kart carburetors in the dyno room. He and the Hendrick engine guys made the carb so all the officials' gauges fit, but it moved nearly 50% more fuel and air than a stock carb. He went to the biggest kart race of the year at Daytona Municipal Stadium and completely waxed the field in all 4 classes he ran. He went to tech, and the tech man DQ'd my dad because "It just doesn't look right." All the gauges fit, and even the tamper proof dye was in place, but it just didnt seem right so they disqualified him. Thus, two weeks later, the new rule read all engine parts must be "stock appearing."

You should hear my family at Christmas, its like a competition to see who has the most crazy cheating story. Obviously the biggest bust was MW at Daytona in 07. NASCAR still has that car, it is in a storage building in Concord....