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(Some Guy) Interesting Five super-rich Americans who started out super poor. Too bad five was all they could find   (investinganswers.com) divider line 44
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4065 clicks; posted to Business » on 21 Oct 2011 at 11:53 PM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»   |    Get this fabulous T-Shirt and impress the methane out of your friends! shirt it!



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2011-10-22 12:07:43 AM
God Bless them bootstrappy sons o' biatches. Never benefited even once from one single guvmint program, not even one of 'em.
 
2011-10-22 12:12:12 AM
Upward mobility isn't an impossibility yet, but with our can-do American spirit, I see an absolutely stratified, rigid class system that would be the envy of 18th century France or Britain 50 years hence. Here's hoping I don't live that long. Sucks for my daughter, though.
 
2011-10-22 12:18:42 AM
Looks like only 2 out of the 5 had college degrees. Interesting.
 
2011-10-22 12:19:23 AM
I guess the article is a warning to the 1%ers who need to work harder to eliminate the ability of the lower class to become millionares and billionares with hard work and a little luck.
 
2011-10-22 12:19:28 AM
Yes, all super-rich people now always were, or at least their folks were. Every single one of them, except these five.

I never thought I would say it, but the PITA needs to come back. Fark is going full retard left, and you should never go full retard.
 
2011-10-22 12:37:17 AM
Slackfumasta: Looks like only 2 out of the 5 had college degrees. Interesting.

Your point? Don't 70% of Americans have a HS diploma and 25% have a BA/BS?
 
2011-10-22 12:51:25 AM
ramblinwreck: Slackfumasta: Looks like only 2 out of the 5 had college degrees. Interesting.

Your point? Don't 70% of Americans have a HS diploma and 25% have a BA/BS?


Just that all through middle and high school, I was repeatedly told I had to go to college to get any kind of decent job, and if I didn't I would never amount to anything.

As I grew older I learned that it was a bunch of bullshiat.
 
2011-10-22 12:59:13 AM
Larry Ellison. Andy Grove of Intel too, IIRC. In fact a lot of very wealthy started out poor. From what I've seen, the factors that make one wealthy are discipline, a baseline of intelligence (don't have to be super smart, but it's rare to see a real dumbshiat make a lot of money, except in pro sports), and a burning desire to succeed. Growing up wealthy can sometimes kill a person's drive.
 
2011-10-22 01:29:43 AM
you're measuring people the wrong way
 
2011-10-22 01:34:15 AM
Lord loves a working man; don't trust whitey; see a doctor and get rid of it.
 
2011-10-22 01:39:14 AM
Wow, subby! This gives the other 299,999,995 of us hope for the future, doesn't it?
 
2011-10-22 01:52:18 AM
Atomic Spunk: Larry Ellison. Andy Grove of Intel too, IIRC. In fact a lot of very wealthy started out poor. From what I've seen, the factors that make one wealthy are discipline, a baseline of intelligence (don't have to be super smart, but it's rare to see a real dumbshiat make a lot of money, except in pro sports), and a burning desire to succeed. Growing up wealthy can sometimes kill a person's drive.

Lol wut? The overwhelming majority of wealthy people were born into wealth. They continue to use that wealth to "make" more money while producing nothing. For every Oprah or Jay-z there are a dozen Kennedys who were born into riches those two cherry-picked bootstrappy entertainers couldn't comprehend. Don't lump these two in with the leeches. They produce entertainment, which people value. They don't sell toxic mortgage loans, mark them up as AAA, then sell them as gold. Their fortunes aren't based on lies and theft.

I am a fan of jay-z for landing Beyonce. There aren't many men who rate a woman that talented and beautiful. Props for closing that deal.
 
2011-10-22 02:03:16 AM
They should pay 0% in taxes because one day I will be just like them.
 
2011-10-22 02:26:03 AM
calm like a bomb: God Bless them bootstrappy sons o' biatches. Never benefited even once from one single guvmint program, not even one of 'em.

Looking at the list, except for Adelson, i can't imagine any of them claiming such a thing.
 
2011-10-22 03:52:07 AM
foo monkey: Lol wut? The overwhelming majority of wealthy people were born into wealth.

not true.

39% percent of the children born in 1968 to the top 1% cohort remained there as of today. 23% landed all the way at the 4th quintile. as 1% of the population remains 1% through the decades, I would think that means a lot of other peoples children moved up to take those dead 1%ers and those 1%ers' childrens positions at he top of the heap. 6/10.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_mobility (new window)
 
2011-10-22 03:53:12 AM
foo monkey: Atomic Spunk: Larry Ellison. Andy Grove of Intel too, IIRC. In fact a lot of very wealthy started out poor. From what I've seen, the factors that make one wealthy are discipline, a baseline of intelligence (don't have to be super smart, but it's rare to see a real dumbshiat make a lot of money, except in pro sports), and a burning desire to succeed. Growing up wealthy can sometimes kill a person's drive.

Lol wut? The overwhelming majority of wealthy people were born into wealth. They continue to use that wealth to "make" more money while producing nothing. For every Oprah or Jay-z there are a dozen Kennedys who were born into riches those two cherry-picked bootstrappy entertainers couldn't comprehend. Don't lump these two in with the leeches. They produce entertainment, which people value. They don't sell toxic mortgage loans, mark them up as AAA, then sell them as gold. Their fortunes aren't based on lies and theft.

I am a fan of jay-z for landing Beyonce. There aren't many men who rate a woman that talented and beautiful. Props for closing that deal.


"Overwhelming majority"? Wrong. You should study these things first instead of parroting some Occupy Wall Street talking points. I agree with some of the points that movement is making, but many of the people speaking on behalf of the movement spew ignorance, much like yourself.

"Props for closing that deal"? Really? Wow...
 
2011-10-22 04:00:30 AM
must be a lot of people who are not yet dead though who had cash in 1969. senior citizens now.
 
2011-10-22 04:22:47 AM
For every one rich person who was born poor, there are 100 rich people who were born rich. I don't see what the point of the article was.

39% of Americans are already delusional enough about their potential class mobility
 
2011-10-22 05:34:45 AM
calm like a bomb: God Bless them bootstrappy sons o' biatches. Never benefited even once from one single guvmint program, not even one of 'em.

Public schools aren't a government program?
 
2011-10-22 06:27:56 AM
relcec: foo monkey: Lol wut? The overwhelming majority of wealthy people were born into wealth.

not true.

39% percent of the children born in 1968 to the top 1% cohort remained there as of today. 23% landed all the way at the 4th quintile. as 1% of the population remains 1% through the decades


You aren't actually disproving his point. The two statements:

"The majority of wealthy people are born into wealth"
"The majority of people born wealthy do not stay wealthy"

Are not contradictory - both can be true at the same time. Hell, the very next sentences from that wiki page you quoted are:

Children previously from lower-income families had only a 1% chance of having an income that ranks in the top 5%[4]. On the other hand, the children of wealthy families have a 22% chance of reaching the top 5%[4].

I can't imagine why you left those out.
 
2011-10-22 07:32:47 AM
I wouldn't count the last guy as super-poor. His father was a truck driver. Maybe things are different today, but that's a solid middle class job these days.
 
2011-10-22 08:05:29 AM
Skail: calm like a bomb: God Bless them bootstrappy sons o' biatches. Never benefited even once from one single guvmint program, not even one of 'em.

Public schools aren't a government program?


I'm 99% sure that when someone uses "guvmint" as a noun in their post, you can write it of as sarcasm.
 
2011-10-22 09:16:51 AM
To be smart enough to get rich you must be dull enough to want to- G K Chesterson
 
2011-10-22 09:27:05 AM
It also looks like 2 out of 5 of them joined the military to improve their status, but I guess that isn't considered a social program....
 
2011-10-22 09:27:59 AM
Gunther:
Children previously from lower-income families had only a 1% chance of having an income that ranks in the top 5%[4]. On the other hand, the children of wealthy families have a 22% chance of reaching the top 5%[4].
.


If you think about how wealth works for a moment you'll realize that's not entirely unexpected due to the magic of compounding. The entrepreneur or athlete can become quite wealthy, but the mega-wealth that comes with being in the top 5% is generally only obtained by people who have built investment empires or hit the business mega jackpot like Steve Jobs.

Upward mobility in my opinion is only important as so far as you can start with nothing and become "well-off" which happens a lot. Getting into the top 5% in one generation isn't very likely in any system.
 
2011-10-22 09:56:15 AM
aneki: If you think about how wealth works for a moment you'll realize that's not entirely unexpected due to the magic of compounding.

It's not that it's unexpected, it's the degree to which the stratification of classes is happening in the moment in the US that's troubling. There's far more economic mobility in Europe. EUROPE, for god's sake.
 
2011-10-22 10:20:21 AM
Here's another list of seven Bootstrappy Americans who started dirt poor but became millionaires! (new window)
 
2011-10-22 11:28:32 AM
DrRatchet: Here's another list of seven Bootstrappy Americans who started dirt poor but became millionaires! (new window)

If you want a long list of Americans who started dirt poor and became millionaires look at the NFL.
 
2011-10-22 12:09:33 PM
stiletto_the_wise: For every one rich person who was born poor, there are 100 rich people who were born rich. I don't see what the point of the article was.

You haven't present a shred of evidence to back that statement up, and you are, in fact, dead wrong, but any of the evidence to the contrary of your opinion you'll probably just write off as unbelievable and biased since it doesn't confirm your prior biases.

Have you ever actually challenged your own beliefs before, or have you only hung around yes-men all your life?
 
2011-10-22 12:59:40 PM
Hydra: You haven't present a shred of evidence to back that statement up, and you are, in fact, dead wrong, but any of the evidence to the contrary of your opinion you'll probably just write off as unbelievable and biased since it doesn't confirm your prior biases.

Let's take the three studies cited in the article:


1. According to a study of Federal Reserve data conducted by NYU professor Edward Wolff, for the nation's richest 1%, inherited wealth accounted for only 9% of their net worth in 2001, down from 23% in 1989. (The 2001 number was the latest available.)


Says nothing about the born poor : born rich ratio. So 9% of one's wealth was inherited...they were born rich and got richer.


2. According to a study by Prince & Associates, less than 10% of today's multi-millionaires cited "inheritance" as their source of wealth.


Flawed methodology. It's likely that multi-millionaires grossly over-state their personal effort and grossly understate the help they got. If they were born with a $5 million trust fund, and used that capital to make $500 million in net worth, they are not going to cite inheritance as the source of their wealth, where it clearly is. The source (in the private wealth business) also has slightly questionable motives.


3. A study by Spectrem Group found that among today's millionaires, inherited wealth accounted for just 2% of their total sources of wealth.


Nothing about born rich : born poor ratio. Also, "inheritance" is not the only way one can be born rich. Inheritance-based studies leave out things like gifts, paid education, and business contact introductions, all received from family throughout the subject's lifetime. The source (wealth management business), again, also has questionable motives.

I'll settle for "neither of us have evidence".
 
2011-10-22 01:00:39 PM
Looks like lots of folks don't understand basic math or ever know what a majority is. No surprise there. I started out lower middle class and retired with a million in assets. Many people move from one side of the bell curve to the other. Wealth is most often gone by the third generation.
 
2011-10-22 01:04:19 PM
Link (new window)

Rich vs. Wealthy
 
2011-10-22 01:17:06 PM
natazha: Looks like lots of folks don't understand basic math or ever know what a majority is. No surprise there. I started out lower middle class and retired with a million in assets. Many people move from one side of the bell curve to the other. Wealth is most often gone by the third generation.

Lots of people retired with a million in assets... Before the Real Estate crash. How's your re-fi going?
 
2011-10-22 05:40:24 PM
Just for Hydraderp:

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2006/04/b1579981.html (new window; full .pdf on link)

"The key findings relating to intergenerational mobility include the following:

* Children from low-income families have only a 1 percent chance of reaching the top 5 percent of the income distribution, versus children of the rich who have about a 22 percent chance.

* Children born to the middle quintile of parental family income ($42,000 to $54,300) had about the same chance of ending up in a lower quintile than their parents (39.5 percent) as they did of moving to a higher quintile (36.5 percent). Their chances of attaining the top five percentiles of the income distribution were just 1.8 percent.

* Education, race, health and state of residence are four key channels by which economic status is transmitted from parent to child.
African American children who are born in the bottom quartile are nearly twice as likely to remain there as adults than are white children whose parents had identical incomes, and are four times less likely to attain the top quartile.

* The difference in mobility for blacks and whites persists even after controlling for a host of parental background factors, children's education and health, as well as whether the household was female-headed or receiving public assistance.

* After controlling for a host of parental background variables, upward mobility varied by region of origin, and is highest (in percentage terms) for those who grew up in the South Atlantic and East South Central regions, and lowest for those raised in the West South Central and Mountain regions.

* By international standards, the United States has an unusually low level of intergenerational mobility: our parents' income is highly predictive of our incomes as adults. Intergenerational mobility in the United States is lower than in France, Germany, Sweden, Canada, Finland, Norway and Denmark. Among high-income countries for which comparable estimates are available, only the United Kingdom had a lower rate of mobility than the United States."

We're so meritocratic! WHEEE AMERICA *CRYING EAGLE*
 
2011-10-22 05:54:48 PM
One of the Johnson and Johnson heirs did a documentary about wealth in America. It's amazing hearing guys like Steve Forbes whine about how hard he had to work for his money while conveniently forgetting that he grew up a child of privilege. Just because you're wealthier than your parents doesn't mean that the source of your success is entirely of your own doing.
 
2011-10-22 08:03:39 PM
Atomic Spunk: Larry Ellison. Andy Grove of Intel too, IIRC. In fact a lot of very wealthy started out poor. From what I've seen, the factors that make one wealthy are discipline, a baseline of intelligence (don't have to be super smart, but it's rare to see a real dumbshiat make a lot of money, except in pro sports), and a burning desire to succeed. Growing up wealthy can sometimes kill a person's drive.

Which is why I'm all for jacking up the inheritance tax. We can kill two birds with one stone:

-Trust fund c*cksuckers who don't contribute anything to society, but get to consume with other people's money (from inheritance), like the priveledge of growing up in an upper-class environment isn't enough of a leg-up for them as it is.

-Anti-prosperity, anti-competitive, and re-distributionist marxist c*cksuckers whose entire philosophy is based on the projection that all successful people were born into money, even though (if I recall correctly) something like 20% of people worth $1m+ actually fit that descriptive characteristic.

Take away ever penny of inheritance money past (say) a million dollars and the only two groups that would be hurt are the trust fund sh*ts and the marxist idiots. The playing field would be leveled and the country would be better off.
 
2011-10-22 09:42:33 PM
foo monkey: Lol wut? The overwhelming majority of wealthy people were born into wealth.

That is farking horsesh*t. I'm no sympathizer for the wealthy, but any class of people that are vilified and denigrated through blatantly-dishonest bullsh*t propaganda (like the kind you've been consuming and speweing) deserve to have the facts tell the part of the story that hatefuly dipsh*t missionaries like you won't tell:

PORTRAIT Of A MILLIONAIRE

Most of us have never felt at a disadvantage because we did not receive any inheritance. About 80 percent of us are first-generation affluent.


One-fifth of millionaires came from money, the rest did not.

The Millionaire Next Door: The Surprising Secrets of American's Wealthy (new window)

Stupid people like you are why I want to see firehoses get used on the protesters. He completely disproved that idiot's conspiracy b.s.. Less than 40% = less than "the majority". Furthermore, the demographic studied came from the upper-upper-upper echelon of wealth, not that this emphasis would mean anything to you..


Gunther: 39% percent of the children born in 1968 to the top 1% cohort remained there as of today. 23% landed all the way at the 4th quintile. as 1% of the population remains 1% through the decades

You aren't actually disproving his point. The two statements:

"The majority of wealthy people are born into wealth"
"The majority of people born wealthy do not stay wealthy"

Are not contradictory - both can be true at the same time.


39% is not the majority. Do you understand what "majority" even means, or do you just have difficulty with percentages, fractions, and two-digit numbers? Sometimes I wonder if idiots like you become Marxists because you're already mathematically deficient, or whether you impale your intraparietal sulcus to validate the philosophical rantings you were spoon-fed.

I'm sure this was lost upon you, but his example was using the top 1%, the extreme high-end of your "will always be uber rich" people, and even that doesn't remain a majority. The wealth distribution in this country is unbelievably flexible which is why our economic system has been regarded by the practically the entire world (and history) as being the fairest in existence despite its obvious flaws. Hard work and ingenuity can pay off enormously, and you have ample opportunities to keep re-trying when you fail.
 
2011-10-22 11:48:49 PM
wolvernova: foo monkey: Lol wut? The overwhelming majority of wealthy people were born into wealth.

That is farking horsesh*t. I'm no sympathizer for the wealthy, but any class of people that are vilified and denigrated through blatantly-dishonest bullsh*t propaganda (like the kind you've been consuming and speweing) deserve to have the facts tell the part of the story that hatefuly dipsh*t missionaries like you won't tell:

PORTRAIT Of A MILLIONAIRE

Most of us have never felt at a disadvantage because we did not receive any inheritance. About 80 percent of us are first-generation affluent.


One-fifth of millionaires came from money, the rest did not.

The Millionaire Next Door: The Surprising Secrets of American's Wealthy (new window)

Stupid people like you are why I want to see firehoses get used on the protesters. He completely disproved that idiot's conspiracy b.s.. Less than 40% = less than "the majority". Furthermore, the demographic studied came from the upper-upper-upper echelon of wealth, not that this emphasis would mean anything to you..


Gunther: 39% percent of the children born in 1968 to the top 1% cohort remained there as of today. 23% landed all the way at the 4th quintile. as 1% of the population remains 1% through the decades

You aren't actually disproving his point. The two statements:

"The majority of wealthy people are born into wealth"
"The majority of people born wealthy do not stay wealthy"

Are not contradictory - both can be true at the same time.

39% is not the majority. Do you understand what "majority" even means, or do you just have difficulty with percentages, fractions, and two-digit numbers? Sometimes I wonder if idiots like you become Marxists because you're already mathematically deficient, or whether you impale your intraparietal sulcus to validate the philosophical rantings you were spoon-fed.

I'm sure this was lost upon you, but his example was using the top 1%, the extreme high-end of your "will always be uber rich" people, and even that doesn't remain a majority. The wealth distribution in this country is unbelievably flexible which is why our economic system has been regarded by the practically the entire world (and history) as being the fairest in existence despite its obvious flaws. Hard work and ingenuity can pay off enormously, and you have ample opportunities to keep re-trying when you fail.


"Us?" I bet you don't make a dime more than I do.
 
2011-10-23 03:18:18 AM
wolvernova: One-fifth of millionaires came from money, the rest did not.

It's a bad idea to use money instead of relative position for these sorts of comparisons, as money is subject to inflation. Someone with a million dollars in assets right now might just own a nice house and have saved for college for their kids (heck, or just be an average farmer), while a couple of generations ago they would be unquestionably wealthy. A million doesn't buy what it used to buy.

wolvernova: The Millionaire Next Door: The Surprising Secrets of American's Wealthy (new window)

That article just asks me for a log-in page, but if it shows there's a significant amount of economic mobility in the US, it's wrong - this is something that has been studied very thoroughly. I posted this link earlier, but:

Using the ratio of an individual's current income to that of their parent's, there is no academic consensus whether the United States has less or more relative mobility than other industrialized nations[1][5][6]. According to one study, the income of a person's parents is a great deal more predictive of their own income in the United States than other countries[4]. France, Germany, Sweden, Canada, Finland, Norway, and Denmark all have more relative mobility than the US, while only the United Kingdom is shown to have less mobility[1].

wolvernova: 39% is not the majority. Do you understand what "majority" even means, or do you just have difficulty with percentages, fractions, and two-digit numbers?

I never said it was, perhaps you should re-read that post.

Just because only 39% of the children of the very wealthy stay very wealthy, it doesn't necessarily follow that the majority of the very wealthy aren't made up of the children of the very wealthy. Assuming the number of very wealthy people stays even, all it requires is for both of those to be true is for the wealthy have multiple children, some of whom become wealthy and some don't. Do you see? I could probably make a Venn diagram of it if you're still having trouble.

wolvernova: Sometimes I wonder if idiots like you become Marxists because you're already mathematically deficient, or whether you impale your intraparietal sulcus to validate the philosophical rantings you were spoon-fed.

Well aren't you just an unpleasant sort of person. A minor disagreement over economics is all it takes for you to start acting like this?
 
2011-10-23 07:04:29 AM
Some Michigander: Skail: calm like a bomb: God Bless them bootstrappy sons o' biatches. Never benefited even once from one single guvmint program, not even one of 'em.

Public schools aren't a government program?

I'm 99% sure that when someone uses "guvmint" as a noun in their post, you can write it of as sarcasm.


Quiet, you.
 
2011-10-23 07:18:50 AM
Skail: Some Michigander: Skail: calm like a bomb: God Bless them bootstrappy sons o' biatches. Never benefited even once from one single guvmint program, not even one of 'em.

Public schools aren't a government program?

I'm 99% sure that when someone uses "guvmint" as a noun in their post, you can write it of as sarcasm.

Quiet, you.


Help! Help! I'm being oppressed!
 
2011-10-23 05:08:10 PM
wolvernova: Take away ever penny of inheritance money past (say) a million dollars ... The playing field would be leveled

lol. Uh, not even close. All you'd do is eliminate the small number of people that get multimillions or billions at birth... which would still be a good thing but you'd still have the same cycle of those that inherit getting to skate by, just with a lower "starting ceiling".

You realize that someone with a mere $50k inheritance at age 18 (vs. those that get $0 - which over 90% of the population can expect [Link (new window, .pdf warning)]) can easily be parlayed into a massive competitive advantage. All inheritance is contrary to efficient free market economics and meritocracy/personal achievement. All.

/my old boss, from the wayback machine; his mother left him house that was worth ~$25k in early '70s
//the guy is a freaking dolt and rudimentary maintenance is his "natural peak skillset"
///so he leveraged his free house to get more properties: rent out, pay down some principal, buy another, repeat
////again - this person didn't understand a thing about the rental industry, just how to change a wax toilet ring
///after 20 yrs he was making 6 figures and after 40 yrs he was making high 6 figures
//take away the free house at the beginning and he'd have been a lower-middle-class handyman for life
/of course he thinks he hit a triple, despite the stork having gently placed him on third base
 
2011-10-23 06:35:11 PM
They're including Jay-Z. That's cheating. Showbusiness is 90% luck, and all rappers have to come from the hood. Hence why it's called "gangsta rap".
 
2011-10-24 01:53:41 PM
gameshowhost: wolvernova: Take away ever penny of inheritance money past (say) a million dollars ... The playing field would be leveled

lol. Uh, not even close. All you'd do is eliminate the small number of people that get multimillions or billions at birth... which would still be a good thing but you'd still have the same cycle of those that inherit getting to skate by, just with a lower "starting ceiling".

You realize that someone with a mere $50k inheritance at age 18 (vs. those that get $0 - which over 90% of the population can expect [Link (new window, .pdf warning)]) can easily be parlayed into a massive competitive advantage. All inheritance is contrary to efficient free market economics and meritocracy/personal achievement. All.

/my old boss, from the wayback machine; his mother left him house that was worth ~$25k in early '70s
//the guy is a freaking dolt and rudimentary maintenance is his "natural peak skillset"
///so he leveraged his free house to get more properties: rent out, pay down some principal, buy another, repeat
////again - this person didn't understand a thing about the rental industry, just how to change a wax toilet ring
///after 20 yrs he was making 6 figures and after 40 yrs he was making high 6 figures
//take away the free house at the beginning and he'd have been a lower-middle-class handyman for life
/of course he thinks he hit a triple, despite the stork having gently placed him on third base


Not to mention the house cost to earnings ratio has been drastically inflated which makes it much much more difficult for someone to repeat his "fortune" starting today with the same scenario.

The game is currently leveraged heavily against the middle and lower income individuals. Things like pensions are now a pipe dream and yet my grandfather had 3. Disposable income is drastically down and most new wealth is debt. I make twice the national median in an area with a moderate cost of living and still envision working until I die (unless I get lucky and win the lottery on the 10-15 bucks i play yearly).
 
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