FARK.com: (6662223) Voter ID laws in the south working just as well as they always have

		Voter ID laws in the south working just as well as they always have (tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com)		183
		More: Obvious, people from South Carolina, voter ID, U.S. state abbreviations, GOP, congressional caucus, ID laws, urban district, Wesley Donehue

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RexTalionis

2011-10-20 05:15:23 PM

I think this guy missed the point of a tweet. If you want to make complex thoughts, use a blog. Don't use the thing that limits you to 140 characters per post.

tallguywithglasseson

2011-10-20 05:19:12 PM

Link (new window)

South Carolina's new voter photo identification law appears to be disproportionately affecting minority voters in one of the state's largest counties and black precincts elsewhere, according to an analysis by The Associated Press.

Link (new window)

The Bureaucratic Maze Take the case of sharecropper Willie Blair of Sumter, S.C. Blair, 61, has used that name all his life - it was given to him by his stepfather. It's also the name he had on his Social Security card. But it turns out that his birth certificate says his real name is Willie Lee McCoy. This was never a problem, until he recently tried to get a photo ID so he could receive Social Security benefits and vote if the new law goes into effect. "And I have been up and down and around and around," says Blair's cousin, Raymond Evans. Blair never went to school and is illiterate. So Evans has been helping him through a bureaucratic maze that would challenge even the most highly educated. "You can't get a birth certificate without a Social Security card," says a frustrated Evans. "You can't get a Social Security card without ID. You can't get the ID without either one of these." Blair's first hurdle was finding out that he needed a photo ID to get a copy of the birth certificate that he needed in order to get a photo ID. Instead, he had to track down copies of his children's birth certificates and numerous other documents to prove his identity. He also had to get the Social Security Administration to change the name it had for him in its files. Earlier this month, Evans was still trying to figure out how Blair could show proof of residency, which is also required to get a free photo ID from the state's Department of Motor Vehicles. Blair lives with his aunt in a small trailer on a dirt road in Sumter. Everything is in her name. "He don't have any income to pay any bills," Evans says. "He don't own a bank account because he don't have ID."

The DMV takes the extraordinary measure of sending people to the guy's trailer to have him swear an affidavit... reporters were following his story. Hard to believe that's the plan for everyone in his situation.

Of course this is the whole idea behind voter ID laws. And it's an easy sell, too, even to a lot of liberals - "who do you know that doesn't have an ID?"
Well, the idea is a lot of people in this situation will give up in frustration.

Next up: out of state college students.

Cubansaltyballs

2011-10-20 05:36:03 PM

tallguywithglasseson: The DMV takes the extraordinary measure of sending people to the guy's trailer to have him swear an affidavit... reporters were following his story. Hard to believe that's the plan for everyone in his situation.

This is only an issue because he didn't give up. The idea is to hope most people don't go to the trouble and don't vote.

impaler

2011-10-20 05:58:37 PM

"If you take that one tweet out of context, of course it makes me look like a racist," Donehue told TPM

I hate it when that happens.

impaler

2011-10-20 06:00:52 PM

Donehue said that college students "will have to prove they live in South Carolina

And for national elections?

namatad

2011-10-20 06:04:58 PM

tallguywithglasseson: Link (new window)
South Carolina's new voter photo identification law appears to be disproportionately affecting minority voters in one of the state's largest counties and black precincts elsewhere, according to an analysis by The Associated Press.Link (new window)The Bureaucratic Maze

Take the case of sharecropper Willie Blair of Sumter, S.C. Blair, 61, has used that name all his life - it was given to him by his stepfather. It's also the name he had on his Social Security card.

But it turns out that his birth certificate says his real name is Willie Lee McCoy.

This was never a problem, until he recently tried to get a photo ID so he could receive Social Security benefits and vote if the new law goes into effect.

"And I have been up and down and around and around," says Blair's cousin, Raymond Evans.

Blair never went to school and is illiterate. So Evans has been helping him through a bureaucratic maze that would challenge even the most highly educated.

"You can't get a birth certificate without a Social Security card," says a frustrated Evans. "You can't get a Social Security card without ID. You can't get the ID without either one of these."

Blair's first hurdle was finding out that he needed a photo ID to get a copy of the birth certificate that he needed in order to get a photo ID. Instead, he had to track down copies of his children's birth certificates and numerous other documents to prove his identity. He also had to get the Social Security Administration to change the name it had for him in its files.

Earlier this month, Evans was still trying to figure out how Blair could show proof of residency, which is also required to get a free photo ID from the state's Department of Motor Vehicles. Blair lives with his aunt in a small trailer on a dirt road in Sumter. Everything is in her name.

"He don't have any income to pay any bills," Evans says. "He don't own a bank account because he don't have ID."The DMV takes the extraordinary measure of sending people to the guy's trailer to have him swear an affidavit... reporters were following his story. Hard to believe that's the plan for everyone in his situation.

Of course this is the whole idea behind voter ID laws. And it's an easy sell, too, even to a lot of liberals - "who do you know that doesn't have an ID?"
Well, the idea is a lot of people in this situation will give up in frustration.

Next up: out of state college students.

HOLY FARK
CSB ! seriously

I have a new idea. Have the state prove that he is NOT who he claims to be and until then, the state MUST issue a photo ID. The state can spend as much time and money as it like to prove or disprove who he is. until then, he has all the right entitled to him as a citizen.

shudder

Friskya

2011-10-20 06:07:26 PM

namatad: I have a new idea. Have the state prove that he is NOT who he claims to be and until then, the state MUST issue a photo ID. The state can spend as much time and money as it like to prove or disprove who he is. until then, he has all the right entitled to him as a citizen.

You can't prove a negative.

Philip Francis Queeg

2011-10-20 06:22:38 PM

For the record, some of the most racist people I know are Democrats. The real race wars happen in Democrat primaries. wesleydonehue October 19, 2011 at 12:59

OK, which Fark Independent is this guy?

Lando Lincoln

2011-10-20 06:22:45 PM

I sincerely believe it is every American's right to be able to vote and to get out and vote. This is the primary reason I am no longer a Republican. I cannot abide a party that does everything it can to reduce the number of voting Americans just so they can win elections. I cannot imagine a more anti-democratic tactic.

tlchwi02

2011-10-20 06:24:48 PM

there is no reason to abridge voting rights. frankly, we weren't having some huge fraud issue before. these laws are not stopping fraud, they are disenfranching the poorest amongst us. that is not democratic and the man in the article should feel bad for what he has helped do.

Sock Ruh Tease

2011-10-20 06:25:30 PM

His string of tweets has everything from paranoia to projection. Of course he feels happy in the GOP.

Spaztictacular

2011-10-20 06:28:38 PM

Friskya: namatad: I have a new idea. Have the state prove that he is NOT who he claims to be and until then, the state MUST issue a photo ID. The state can spend as much time and money as it like to prove or disprove who he is. until then, he has all the right entitled to him as a citizen.

You can't prove a negative.

Didn't stop the government from using that logic against Saddam Hussein

PonceAlyosha

2011-10-20 06:31:38 PM

Spaztictacular: Friskya: namatad: I have a new idea. Have the state prove that he is NOT who he claims to be and until then, the state MUST issue a photo ID. The state can spend as much time and money as it like to prove or disprove who he is. until then, he has all the right entitled to him as a citizen.

You can't prove a negative.

Didn't stop the government from using that logic against Saddam Hussein

Today's just admit we're fascists day, isn't it? It's like the curtain's dropped.

tlchwi02

2011-10-20 06:33:34 PM

PonceAlyosha: Today's just admit we're fascists day, isn't it? It's like the curtain's dropped

and all it took was a a few thousand protesters camping out for a couple of weeks. man imagine if they stay for like 6 months- we'll know the truth about the kennedy assisination, the roswell incident and lincolns dual genitalia!

eraser8

2011-10-20 06:34:06 PM

tlchwi02: there is no reason to abridge voting rights.

You might not like the reason -- but "keeping the people who don't vote for us from voting" IS a reason.

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears

2011-10-20 06:36:14 PM

HA! :D HA!
You can't vote because you're black!

tlchwi02

2011-10-20 06:36:28 PM

eraser8: You might not like the reason -- but "keeping the people who don't vote for us from voting" IS a reason.

touche sir

Corvus

2011-10-20 06:38:31 PM

For the record, some of the most racist people I know are Democrats. The real race wars happen in Democrat primaries.

He seems pretty proud that he hangs out with many different racists from many different political party affiliations.

jigger

2011-10-20 06:38:44 PM

impaler: "If you take that one tweet out of context, of course it makes me look like a racist," Donehue told TPM

I hate it when that happens.

i.imgur.com

Knows what you mean.

Corvus

2011-10-20 06:40:02 PM

So his argument seems to be "Well only 50% of the people it's affecting are minorities who should be able to vote, so it's ok!!"

Britney Spear's Speculum

2011-10-20 06:41:11 PM

Yes because black people have time to vote in multiple districts.

coeyagi

2011-10-20 06:46:07 PM

Am I missing something? How does the AP article prove anything? Even if it does, his tweets pointing out the facts of the AP article don't state anything that proves why the law is necessary, other than to help GOP candidates.

daveUSMC

2011-10-20 06:49:02 PM

It's so unjust that we actually would consider requiring people to validate their identities before they can vote.

Even IF this is a racist conspiracy!!11!1eleventyone!! what kind of idiot would think that a simple ID check is a such a prohibitive thing? I mean, you can't even write a check, get a library card, use a credit card, buy cigarettes, or consume alcohol without an ID. Even if there was literally zero fraud, a simple ID requirement is not a life-altering OMFGWTF moment. Sure, there's probably outliers and onsies and twosies that have extenuating circumstances, but come on.

mediablitz

2011-10-20 06:49:45 PM

Gotta love his followup tweets.

Democrats are all stupid and the REAL racists. The most racist people he KNOWS are Democrats!

bulldg4life

2011-10-20 06:51:09 PM

tlchwi02: frankly, we weren't having some huge fraud issue before.

But we COULD'VE been

PanicMan

2011-10-20 06:52:12 PM

This time it's really not about racism. Disenfranchising minorities isn't the intent, although it may be a side effect.

The intent is to disenfranchise college students. He makes that perfectly clear"

"The argument is that since they live in South Carolina nine months out of the year, they should have a say in what goes on in the state," Donehue said. "Listen, if that's true, then become a resident of the state. If you're going to live here nine months and have a say in what goes on in the state of South Carolina then go become a South Carolina resident and get yourself a South Carolina ID."

coeyagi

2011-10-20 06:53:39 PM

daveUSMC: It's so unjust that we actually would consider requiring people to validate their identities before they can vote.

Even IF this is a racist conspiracy!!11!1eleventyone!! what kind of idiot would think that a simple ID check is a such a prohibitive thing? I mean, you can't even write a check, get a library card, use a credit card, buy cigarettes, or consume alcohol without an ID. Even if there was literally zero fraud, a simple ID requirement is not a life-altering OMFGWTF moment. Sure, there's probably outliers and onsies and twosies that have extenuating circumstances, but come on.

To be honest, I agree, and I am fairly liberal. Nikki Haley is supposedly offering free rides to get state IDs, and the black community, if concerned, should get mobilized and get the folks their IDs.

That being said, this dumbass tweeter did not prove a single farking thing by quoting an article that did not prove a single farking thing.

jake3988

2011-10-20 06:54:24 PM

"The argument is that since they live in South Carolina nine months out of the year, they should have a say in what goes on in the state," Donehue said. "Listen, if that's true, then become a resident of the state. If you're going to live here nine months and have a say in what goes on in the state of South Carolina then go become a South Carolina resident and get yourself a South Carolina ID."
===============================================================

Becoming a citizen of a state does not work that way, ignoramus moron.

Otherwise being 'out-of-state' for tuition wouldn't need to exist.

Dafatone

2011-10-20 06:56:03 PM

coeyagi: daveUSMC: It's so unjust that we actually would consider requiring people to validate their identities before they can vote.

Even IF this is a racist conspiracy!!11!1eleventyone!! what kind of idiot would think that a simple ID check is a such a prohibitive thing? I mean, you can't even write a check, get a library card, use a credit card, buy cigarettes, or consume alcohol without an ID. Even if there was literally zero fraud, a simple ID requirement is not a life-altering OMFGWTF moment. Sure, there's probably outliers and onsies and twosies that have extenuating circumstances, but come on.

To be honest, I agree, and I am fairly liberal. Nikki Haley is supposedly offering free rides to get state IDs, and the black community, if concerned, should get mobilized and get the folks their IDs.

That being said, this dumbass tweeter did not prove a single farking thing by quoting an article that did not prove a single farking thing.

It's a blatant move to swing elections to the right. It solves a problem that doesn't exist in order to prevent a group of mostly liberals (those who don't have IDs) from voting.

Forget about whether it sounds decent in some theoretical vacuum and look at the impact. It fixes nothing. It stops some people from voting.

It sucks.

eraser8

2011-10-20 06:58:26 PM

daveUSMC: a simple ID requirement is not a life-altering OMFGWTF moment.

Unless you can't get the ID.

But, the larger point is that politicians shouldn't be making it harder for people to vote without just cause. Considering voter fraud is vanishingly rare, what's the point?

King Something

2011-10-20 07:01:35 PM

Hey, Dave:

The problem lies in the difficulty in getting the ID in the first place. Scroll up a few posts and read about the farmer who cannot get the proper ID for voting without his birth certificate (which he doesn't have) and cannot get his birth certificate without the ID he's trying to get.

/See also: Wisconsin

Britney Spear's Speculum

2011-10-20 07:03:28 PM

Dafatone: It solves a problem that doesn't exist in order to prevent a group of mostly liberals (those who don't have IDs) from voting.

I was for voter ID laws until I saw the voter fraud numbers. There is virtually none.

bulldg4life

2011-10-20 07:04:50 PM

Britney Spear's Speculum: Dafatone: It solves a problem that doesn't exist in order to prevent a group of mostly liberals (those who don't have IDs) from voting.

I was for voter ID laws until I saw the voter fraud numbers. There is virtually none.

But there COULD be.

And, it's proven fact that it would harm the GOP.

daveUSMC

2011-10-20 07:05:10 PM

eraser8: daveUSMC: a simple ID requirement is not a life-altering OMFGWTF moment.

Unless you can't get the ID.

FTFA
"Whitmire thinks that those without ID - estimated to be more than 200,000 registered voters statewide - will be able to get it fairly easily, if and when the Justice Department gives the OK. County election offices plan to provide free photo registration cards to those who come in and verbally confirm their date of birth and Social Security number.

Whitmire admits that for those who live a long distance away, it's a hurdle. But, he adds, "It's not a brick wall. I haven't seen the case where that person will be disenfranchised and they have no option to vote."

So some people, who don't know their own birth year, and who have never made any effort to get correct documentation are having a hard time. Got it. GIve 'em a hand, try to help 'em out- exactly what is being done.

This whole issue is a stupid political stunt by both sides. Just like the WHAR on Christmas.

sprawl15

2011-10-20 07:05:26 PM

Britney Spear's Speculum: Dafatone: It solves a problem that doesn't exist in order to prevent a group of mostly liberals (those who don't have IDs) from voting.

I was for voter ID laws until I saw the voter fraud numbers. There is virtually none.

When the voter ID laws prevent fewer fraudulent votes than the number of people disenfranchised by the laws, there tends to be something wrong.

eraser8

2011-10-20 07:09:24 PM

daveUSMC: So some people, who don't know their own birth year, and who have never made any effort to get correct documentation are having a hard time. Got it. GIve 'em a hand, try to help 'em out- exactly what is being done.

Why the fark should they have to go through the grief when there's no problem with voter fraud?

What REASONABLE purpose is there behind making voting more difficult for citizens -- who just happen to vote overwhelmingly against Republicans?

Why put up roadblocks?

These are easy questions that are all derived from the question I originally asked you -- and FOR SOME REASON you neglected to answer.

Wii.Tard

2011-10-20 07:11:48 PM

When will the illegals have a "vote-in" in California?

IlGreven

2011-10-20 07:12:05 PM

sprawl15

2011-10-20 07:12:27 PM

eraser8: What REASONABLE purpose is there behind making voting more difficult for citizens

The problem is, the concept of voter ID isn't a bad one. A system where we could magically verify everyone is who they say they are would be ideal. That's what people like daveUSMC are arguing for. Yeah, I could get behind the theory behind the laws.

Practically, these systems are almost entirely setup to disenfranchise people. They don't get that, and think you're arguing against the idea of validating identity - which is an otherwise reasonable point.

IlGreven

2011-10-20 07:13:50 PM

bulldg4life: Britney Spear's Speculum: Dafatone: It solves a problem that doesn't exist in order to prevent a group of mostly liberals (those who don't have IDs) from voting.

I was for voter ID laws until I saw the voter fraud numbers. There is virtually none.

But there COULD be.

And, it's proven fact that it would harm the GOP.

Remember, if the GOP loses, someone cheated. If the Dems lose, it's the will of the people.

Britney Spear's Speculum

2011-10-20 07:15:46 PM

daveUSMC

2011-10-20 07:15:59 PM

eraser8: daveUSMC: So some people, who don't know their own birth year, and who have never made any effort to get correct documentation are having a hard time. Got it. GIve 'em a hand, try to help 'em out- exactly what is being done.

Why the fark should they have to go through the grief when there's no problem with voter fraud?

What REASONABLE purpose is there behind making voting more difficult for citizens -- who just happen to vote overwhelmingly against Republicans?

Why put up roadblocks?

These are easy questions that are all derived from the question I originally asked you -- and FOR SOME REASON you neglected to answer.

Well, for one, ensuring people have proper SSN, birth certificate, and driver's license documentation will make things a lot easier for them down the road when they need them for things like collecting benefits, signing mortgages, getting credit checks, or running for President of the United States while Donald Trump still lives.

eraser8

2011-10-20 07:16:36 PM

IlGreven: Remember, if the GOP loses, someone cheated. If the Dems lose, it's the will of the people.

Huh.

So, all the Republicans who biatched about ACORN and Al Franken's win in Minnesota and a bunch of other shiat whenever Democrats won over the past several years were just dirty lairs?

That's good to know.

eraser8

2011-10-20 07:21:00 PM

daveUSMC: Well, for one, ensuring people have proper SSN, birth certificate, and driver's license documentation will make things a lot easier for them down the road when they need them for things like collecting benefits, signing mortgages, getting credit checks, or running for President of the United States while Donald Trump still lives.

All that's true. But, it doesn't actually answer my questions.

So, I'll ask again: Why the fark should voters have to go through the grief when there's no problem with voter fraud?

What REASONABLE purpose is there behind making voting more difficult for citizens -- who just happen to vote overwhelmingly against Republicans?

Why put up roadblocks?

Also, if what you say is true, why are people in places like South Carolina and Wisconsin actively trying to make it MORE DIFFICULT for people to get the IDs that they're going to need to vote? (pops) Why are offices that issue IDs being closed in the very jurisdictions that contain the people least likely to have them?

HeartBurnKid

2011-10-20 07:21:29 PM

daveUSMC: Sure, there's probably outliers and onsies and twosies that have extenuating circumstances, but come on.

Those outliers and onesies and twosies have the same right to vote as everybody else.

coeyagi

2011-10-20 07:23:07 PM

Dafatone: coeyagi: daveUSMC: It's so unjust that we actually would consider requiring people to validate their identities before they can vote.

Even IF this is a racist conspiracy!!11!1eleventyone!! what kind of idiot would think that a simple ID check is a such a prohibitive thing? I mean, you can't even write a check, get a library card, use a credit card, buy cigarettes, or consume alcohol without an ID. Even if there was literally zero fraud, a simple ID requirement is not a life-altering OMFGWTF moment. Sure, there's probably outliers and onsies and twosies that have extenuating circumstances, but come on.

To be honest, I agree, and I am fairly liberal. Nikki Haley is supposedly offering free rides to get state IDs, and the black community, if concerned, should get mobilized and get the folks their IDs.

That being said, this dumbass tweeter did not prove a single farking thing by quoting an article that did not prove a single farking thing.

It's a blatant move to swing elections to the right. It solves a problem that doesn't exist in order to prevent a group of mostly liberals (those who don't have IDs) from voting.

Forget about whether it sounds decent in some theoretical vacuum and look at the impact. It fixes nothing. It stops some people from voting.

It sucks.

All good points. I know it fixes nothing save for probably less than a handful of fraudulent votes. But answer this statement:

"Should people who go to vote have to provide ID?"

That statement, devoid of any context of politics, I think most people would answer yes.

I mostly hate the GOP, and I know what their motives are despite what they say, but can no one has shown me why this law is fundamentally WRONG.

Round Fish on Toast

2011-10-20 07:23:34 PM

eraser8: daveUSMC: a simple ID requirement is not a life-altering OMFGWTF moment.

Unless you can't get the ID.

This is funny because just last month I tried to get IDs for my kids without luck.

CSB
I was at a book store, reading to my 8 year old, and some bint starts talking to her while she is on my lap. We both stare her away.
5 minutes later, a couple of cops show up and take me away from her and question me, apparently the bint called them and accused me of abduction or something. After a few minutes, I was able to convince the cops that I was their father and they let me go. It is not the first time this has happened. I am a single, middle-aged white guy, my girls were both adopted from China, and I guess that some folks cant fathom that and assume I must me an abductor or something.
Anyways, I am trying to figure out how to prevent this from happening again, so I look into getting an official ID card for my kids. It turns out that no such thing exists, NJMVC wont give an non-driver ID to anyone under 17, and no other state agency can issue an ID.
So I write to my legislators. They say "Tough nuggies". Now I have to carry their passports and adoption papers with me.

BSABSVR

2011-10-20 07:28:06 PM

sprawl15: When the voter ID laws prevent fewer fraudulent votes than the number of people disenfranchised by the laws, there tends to be something wrong.

The best part is that the people who are for these expensive voter ID laws are the same people who talk about how broke government is and how it should be run like a business.

In my home state, there were over 1.7 million ballots returned in 2010. The wingnut Secretary of State decided that there was probably a LOT of fraud, so he had his office investigate. before the investigation was complete, he was claiming that there were thousands of fraudulently cast ballots, probably tens of thousands and maybe even hundreds of thousands.

His office came up with 106 potentials, most of which were citizens with the same as an illegal immigrant.

1 person was charged. He was a GOP businessman who filled out 2 ballots.

No successful business would spend any time on this non-issue.

blahpers

2011-10-20 07:30:14 PM

blahpers

2011-10-20 07:33:08 PM

coeyagi: That statement, devoid of any context of politics, I think most people would answer yes.

Fewer people would answer "yes" to that than you realize. Also, removing politics is impossible, since the subject of the discussion is voting, the very foundation of politics in democracies and republics.

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