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(Click On Detroit)   "Organic" eggs extra organic in terms of salmonella, so they're being recalled   (clickondetroit.com) divider line 99
    More: Scary, Michigan, Department of Agriculture, illness  
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3000 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Oct 2011 at 1:33 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-10-20 01:37:37 PM  
Oh boy this thread! organic wharbargle!


My egg source:

farm6.static.flickr.com

Notice the space between each chicken and the open air. Minimizes disease.
 
2011-10-20 01:39:06 PM  
Ahhh, the organic myth. They aren't healthier, they just give you a sense of smugness.
 
2011-10-20 01:40:17 PM  
Doesn't get any more organic than diamonds.

/I poop sparkles
//also, blood
 
2011-10-20 01:40:37 PM  

stuhayes2010: My egg source:


Niiice.

i291.photobucket.com
This one is Ms. Plucky. She was killed by a raccoon. But Foot-Foot, White-White, Louise, Worm-Worm and Inspector Peckit are still laying well.
 
2011-10-20 01:40:37 PM  

moops: Ahhh, the organic myth. They aren't healthier, they just give you a sense of smugness.


Wait, how long has Apple been selling eggs?
 
2011-10-20 01:43:02 PM  
Organismic!
 
2011-10-20 01:45:12 PM  
You have to wonder why people are allowed to sell unpastuerized eggs in the name or the Organic gods but people cannot sell unpastuerized milk.
 
2011-10-20 01:47:22 PM  
Um... anything that rots is organic. Seriously.
 
2011-10-20 01:47:24 PM  

Benjimin_Dover: You have to wonder why people are allowed to sell unpastuerized eggs in the name or the Organic gods but people cannot sell unpastuerized m


You know how I know that you have no idea what you're talking about?
 
2011-10-20 01:47:41 PM  

Benjimin_Dover: You have to wonder why people are allowed to sell unpastuerized eggs in the name or the Organic gods but people cannot sell unpastuerized milk.


Because the dairy lobby is stronger than the egg lobby. Simple as that.

You can buy unpasteurized milk in many places, but you have to seek it out, and often buy it under the table.
 
2011-10-20 01:49:12 PM  
the organic food craze is loaded up with just as much anti-science as the the anti-vaccine people. its junk science and marketing, little more. about the only real good it has caused is a renewed interest in local foods and gardening. however no food is without contamination risks. plenty of all "organic" stuff that will kill you.
 
2011-10-20 01:53:09 PM  

Benjimin_Dover: You have to wonder why people are allowed to sell unpastuerized eggs in the name or the Organic gods but people cannot sell unpastuerized milk.


The patent for pasteurized in-shell eggs was granted around 2003, so there's only one company legally allowed to sell them until that patent expires.
 
2011-10-20 01:55:31 PM  

kd8our: the organic food craze is loaded up with just as much anti-science as the the anti-vaccine people.


this. eating organic food does not equate a healthier lifestyle. there really isn't even a placebo effect. it just gives people a sense of superiority.
 
2011-10-20 01:57:59 PM  

moops: Benjimin_Dover: You have to wonder why people are allowed to sell unpastuerized eggs in the name or the Organic gods but people cannot sell unpastuerized m

You know how I know that you have no idea what you're talking about?


What? You can pick that stuff up at any local market. It's generally kept next to the organic unpastuerized powdered milk.

I can't be the only one.
 
2011-10-20 01:58:25 PM  

kd8our: the organic food craze is loaded up with just as much anti-science as the the anti-vaccine people. its junk science and marketing, little more. about the only real good it has caused is a renewed interest in local foods and gardening. however no food is without contamination risks. plenty of all "organic" stuff that will kill you.


Reminds me of the "no chemicals" thing that hippies used to claim.

I was 14, in Woodstock,NY and haggling over a jar of jam:
"Does it have peruvic acid?"
"No acid, man."
"Dihydrogen monoxide?"
"No, you sick little Fark. Can't you read? 'No chemicals'. Period. Now are you going to buy it or just be stupid?"

/I thought for sure the 'dihydrogen monoxide' would have given me away
 
2011-10-20 01:59:46 PM  
Stupid rich people getting themselves killed - that's unpossible.

/always makes sure to not buy organic when grocery shopping
//15 years in and people still fall for this BS
 
2011-10-20 02:03:05 PM  

bunner: Um... anything that rots is organic. Seriously.


By definition, anything that contains carbon is organic. Which includes almost every pesticide, hormone and antibiotic.

I think it's great that you are concerned about what you eat, but don't squat on a word that has a meaning contrary to what you're trying to achieve.
 
2011-10-20 02:05:33 PM  

moops: Benjimin_Dover: You have to wonder why people are allowed to sell unpastuerized eggs in the name or the Organic gods but people cannot sell unpastuerized m

You know how I know that you have no idea what you're talking about?


No. Are you saying that nobody here has ever read a thread on Fark about somebody getting hammered on about raw milk? Do tell.
 
2011-10-20 02:05:52 PM  

moops: Ahhh, the organic myth. They aren't healthier, they just give you a sense of smugness.


Wait, you mean smothering my food in feces doesn't make it safer?
 
2011-10-20 02:10:57 PM  

Everyone Sucks But Me: moops: Ahhh, the organic myth. They aren't healthier, they just give you a sense of smugness.

Wait, how long has Apple been selling eggs?


I'd like to see a venn-diagram showing the overlap between people who "absolutely must" eat organic food and those who own two or more apple products.

Both groups seem to attract a certain type.
 
2011-10-20 02:11:07 PM  

hillbillypharmacist: stuhayes2010: My egg source:

Niiice.

[i291.photobucket.com image 320x240]
This one is Ms. Plucky. She was killed by a raccoon. But Foot-Foot, White-White, Louise, Worm-Worm and Inspector Peckit are still laying well.


I LOL'd :-)
 
2011-10-20 02:11:19 PM  

kd8our: the organic food craze is loaded up with just as much anti-science as the the anti-vaccine people. its junk science and marketing, little more. about the only real good it has caused is a renewed interest in local foods and gardening. however no food is without contamination risks. plenty of all "organic" stuff that will kill you.


Hey, hey, hey! It's only anti-science when people are talking about evolution or climate change. If you're talking about vaccines, organic food, genetically modified crops, nuclear energy, alternative "medicine", "toxins", or cell phones you're definitely NOT anti-science. That's a rule.

Side note, everything natural is perfectly good for you. It's not like anyone ever died from ingesting hemlock or anything.
 
2011-10-20 02:11:23 PM  
Ahhh, the organic myth. They aren't healthier, they just give you a sense of smugness.

Moops ftw again...
 
2011-10-20 02:15:22 PM  
I'd like to see a venn-diagram showing the overlap between people who "absolutely must" eat organic food and those who own two or more apple products.

Both groups seem to attract a certain type.


One group operates under the myth that if it says 'organic' it must be better, cost is no issue.

The other group operates under the fact that if it says 'mac or apple' it WILL be better and cost is secondary since you'll get more done, faster and make more money.
 
2011-10-20 02:15:33 PM  
If we had less regulations and less inspection, eggs and other shiat wouldn't be recalled so often. Vote republican
 
2011-10-20 02:16:31 PM  

Benjimin_Dover: moops: Benjimin_Dover: You have to wonder why people are allowed to sell unpastuerized eggs in the name or the Organic gods but people cannot sell unpastuerized m

You know how I know that you have no idea what you're talking about?

No. Are you saying that nobody here has ever read a thread on Fark about somebody getting hammered on about raw milk? Do tell.


He's saying that pasteurizing eggs and pasteurizing milk are completely unrelated. Eggs don't need pasteurizing because they're not consumed raw, which is why it's rare to pasteurize eggs.
 
2011-10-20 02:21:33 PM  

bump: Ahhh, the organic myth. They aren't healthier, they just give you a sense of smugness.

Moops ftw again...


You know the difference between organic celery and inorganic(?) celery? About a buck.
 
2011-10-20 02:26:41 PM  

moops: They aren't healthier, they just give you a sense of smugness.


Stupid facts (new window). They're so smug.
38.8 percent of conventional birds were infected with Salmonella, while only 5.6 percent of organic birds were infected.
 
2011-10-20 02:28:04 PM  
As one who generally hates the whole organic food movement let me say....

Well let me say this story's implication that the 'organic' origin of the outbreak is total bunk. People getting salmonella from eggs laid in a production factory happens pretty regularly. Not saying getting it from eggs is common, because it isn't, but nobody should be surprised to hear that it sometimes happens. The fact that the hens were probably roaming around a coop eating bugs instead of slaving on the assembly line really doesn't matter.

Just cook the damned eggs and you don't have anything to worry about.
 
2011-10-20 02:35:59 PM  
Average life expectancy in 1940 was 62.9 years. That was before all the additives and chemicals and what-not. Average life expectancy today is 77.9 years. Please place your organic food up your organic ass and pass the MSG.
 
2011-10-20 02:36:18 PM  

stuhayes2010: Oh boy this thread! organic wharbargle!


My egg source:

[farm6.static.flickr.com image 500x335]

Notice the space between each chicken and the open air. Minimizes disease.


For a while, my wife was friends with a woman who lived on a small farm and we got 'farm fresh' eggs every few weeks. I was always amazed at how much darker/golden color the yolk was. Do you see the same thing compared to store-bought eggs?

That woman used to tell us it was kinda hard to hard-boil those eggs for some reason, I forget why. We never tried it, but is that true?
 
2011-10-20 02:43:11 PM  

theknuckler_33: For a while, my wife was friends with a woman who lived on a small farm and we got 'farm fresh' eggs every few weeks. I was always amazed at how much darker/golden color the yolk was. Do you see the same thing compared to store-bought eggs?


I can, certainly.

That woman used to tell us it was kinda hard to hard-boil those eggs for some reason, I forget why. We never tried it, but is that true?

Fresher eggs tend to be hard to peel, in my experience. Store-bought eggs are washed and refrigerated for at least some amount of time, and so the inner lining has had a chance to dry and pull away from the shell a little bit. So I understand.
 
2011-10-20 02:44:33 PM  
Ok so basically they need to shut down Larry Shultz Organic Farms. SINCE-the melons with listeria that killed 25 and now the organic eggs they are recalling BOTH came from there. Yeah um would not eat from there.
 
2011-10-20 02:44:42 PM  
it's not the "organic" or "factory farms" it's just plain human stupidity that causes this crap. Just because something came from a certain supplier does not mean you can ignore safe food handling practices. Protip: almost all bacteria and their respective toxins can be destroyed with adequate heat. I work in a microbiology lab, we test food for human pathogens. I used to work in a lab that was certified to work with botulism. I'm exposed to this stuff EVERY DAY! The only two times I've gotten sick with food borne illness is from restaurants that improperly cooked my food. If people weren't so damn ill-informed and reactionary to irradiation, we could eradicate over 90% of food borne illness.

Seriously you want to know something scary, my lab was contracted to do a study for a national news program. The workers bought pork from 50 different supermarkets, 2 packages at each one, and we tested them. 100% of the samples tested positive for staphylococcus (new window), 50% tested positive for listeria monocytogenes (new window), 30% tested positive for salmonella (new window), and 90% tested positive for Yersinia enterocolitica (new window). All of these are killed by cooking to an internal temperature of 145F. Non spore forming bacteria are very heat sensitive.

Living, or previously living organisms are lousy with bacteria, Staph is on your body at this very second, l. mono, fecal coliforms, and salmonella are found in the soil, so 90% chance I'll find it if I swab your shoes or your kitchen floor(heck that carrot or candy bar you just ate, probably loaded with fecal coliforms, there is a "safe for human consumption" level of them). Safe food handling guidelines (new window)are not "stupid", they are freakin' common sense, which unfortunately is not very common anymore.
 
2011-10-20 02:45:22 PM  

bunner: You know the difference between organic celery and inorganic(?) celery? About a buck.

70% of all antibiotics sold in the USA end up in livestock, and 80% of animal "farms" use those non-therapeutically (new window), because of the unhealthy conditions the animals live in. That means that 80% of these operations use them because they think their animals would get sick just living there.

Say what you want about organic / non-organic, but keep that in mind.

As for crops - the difference is not a buck. The difference is massive petrol-chemical runoff encouraging rampant algae growth and killing fisheries around the world (yes - petrol-chemical: both pesticides and fertilizer are petrol-chemical). And that's just one issue.

 
2011-10-20 02:46:21 PM  
JHC! Some people dont eat "organic" to be healthier, but because it tastes better. Free range eggs taste a billion times better than the factory farmed crap. Harder shells, and more golden yolks. And no smelly sulfuric gas on the other end.
 
2011-10-20 02:49:44 PM  
The way we treat chickens is monstrous.

DemoKnite: JHC! Some people dont eat "organic" to be healthier, but because it tastes better. Free range eggs taste a billion times better than the factory farmed crap. Harder shells, and more golden yolks. And no smelly sulfuric gas on the other end.


^

Seriously, bug eggs and organic ketchup taste noticeably better to me.
 
2011-10-20 03:00:45 PM  
I buy the eggs I buy because I actually give a damn about the animal husbandry practices of the farm. The best eggs and chicken I've ever had came from my cousin's farm. They had about 2 dozen chickens that occupied about a half-acre and a spacious coup. The only eggs and chickens that even come close to tasting that good come from Vital Farms in Austin. Their eggs are freaking expensive but they're the best eggs I've ever had. Plus they've got amazing husbandry practices.
 
2011-10-20 03:02:06 PM  

stuhayes2010: My egg source:

[farm6.static.flickr.com image 500x335]

Notice the space between each chicken and the open air. Minimizes disease.


You trained your chickens not to touch when they're standing on a limb?

That's pretty cool.

/wish I had space and patience to tend a coop
 
2011-10-20 03:03:19 PM  
I'm gonna have to throw in with de_Selby on this one. Just because certified organic food isn't a panacea doesn't mean it's a distinction without a difference. I would add that I appreciate the "no synthetic pesticides" rule for organics as well. Even assuming that pesticides in low doses are harmless to humans, all bets are off as pesticides from crops move up the food chain.
 
2011-10-20 03:12:38 PM  

hillbillypharmacist: theknuckler_33: That woman used to tell us it was kinda hard to hard-boil those eggs for some reason, I forget why. We never tried it, but is that true?

Fresher eggs tend to be hard to peel, in my experience. Store-bought eggs are washed and refrigerated for at least some amount of time, and so the inner lining has had a chance to dry and pull away from the shell a little bit. So I understand.


Now that you say that, I think that is exactly what she told us. Not so much hard to make the egg 'hard boiled', but if wanted them for deviled eggs or something, it might be a problem. Thanks!

Miss those free eggs. A coworker of mine keeps a few ducks that she harvests their eggs from. Maybe I can talk her into giving me a half a dozen.
 
2011-10-20 03:15:56 PM  

de_Selby: bunner: You know the difference between organic celery and inorganic(?) celery? About a buck.
70% of all antibiotics sold in the USA end up in livestock, and 80% of animal "farms" use those non-therapeutically (new window), because of the unhealthy conditions the animals live in. That means that 80% of these operations use them because they think their animals would get sick just living there.

Say what you want about organic / non-organic, but keep that in mind.

As for crops - the difference is not a buck. The difference is massive petrol-chemical runoff encouraging rampant algae growth and killing fisheries around the world (yes - petrol-chemical: both pesticides and fertilizer are petrol-chemical). And that's just one issue.


Algae fights global warming. Therefore, you hate the planet.
 
2011-10-20 03:17:14 PM  

DemoKnite: JHC! Some people dont eat "organic" to be healthier, but because it tastes better. Free range eggs taste a billion times better than the factory farmed crap. Harder shells, and more golden yolks. And no smelly sulfuric gas on the other end.


The "Bullshiat" episode on organic goods was quite amusing. All the folks that got interviewed swore the organic stuff tasted better and then they failed miserably in a blind taste test. They didn't do eggs though and I've definitely seen the difference first hand. Not positive I could say I could pick out organic in a blind taste test, especially in, say, an omelette.
 
2011-10-20 03:23:47 PM  

meanmutton: Algae fights global warming. Therefore, you hate the planet.


My bad - I meant phytoplankton.
 
2011-10-20 03:25:37 PM  

rich_mitch: I'm gonna have to throw in with de_Selby on this one. Just because certified organic food isn't a panacea doesn't mean it's a distinction without a difference. I would add that I appreciate the "no synthetic pesticides" rule for organics as well. Even assuming that pesticides in low doses are harmless to humans, all bets are off as pesticides from crops move up the food chain.


If only there was a government agency who studied pesticides and their effects on the environment and non-target species, with the regulatory authority to ban certain pesticides... Maybe they should pass a law on this. You know, a Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act. They could then get this government agency, maybe one tasked with environmental protection or something, to administer it.
 
2011-10-20 03:30:16 PM  

meanmutton: They could then get this government agency, maybe one tasked with environmental protection or something, to administer it.


Sorry, we don't have the resources for that nonsense. We're busy stopping CO2, the Silent Killer.
 
2011-10-20 03:35:23 PM  

de_Selby: As for crops - the difference is not a buck. The difference is massive petrol-chemical runoff encouraging rampant algae growth and killing fisheries around the world (yes - petrol-chemical: both pesticides and fertilizer are petrol-chemical). And that's just one issue.


you are aware that "organic" pesticides/herbicides/fungicides are things like oil, and large amounts of copper and sulfur-right? Add in that "organic" fungicides last 7 days and must be reapplied while conventional fungicides last 21 days. I wonder which ones uses more?

you are also aware that saying "organic fertilizer" is not a chemical is propaganda doublespeak right? It's like saying calcium carbonate is a chemical but crushed eggshell isn't(hint eggshells are composed entirely of calcium carbonate).

pops (new window)

"Fertilizer is essentially chemical nutrient, and the organic version delivers exactly the same chemical load as the synthetic. It has to, otherwise it wouldn't function. All plant fertilizers, organic and synthetic, consist of the same three elements: nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium. Referring to one as a "chemical" and implying that the other is not, is the worst kind of duplicity, and no intelligent person should tolerate it.

The difference between the two is the source of the chemicals. To make the high-volume commercial versions of both organic and synthetic fertilizer, the source materials are processed in factories and reduced to just the desired chemicals, and the end product, these days, is virtually indistinguishable. Small organic farmers, and home organic farmers, might use fish meal, bone meal, bat guano, or earthworm castings. These are fine products and do indeed deliver the required nutrients. They're just not useful for high volume farming because they're (a) far too expensive, and (b) contain too much ballast, or inactive ingredient, that the crops don't use and merely increase the energy requirements of moving and delivering them.

To make synthetic fertilizer, we start with nitrogen, which we extract from the atmosphere. This process is infinitely sustainable and produces no waste. The potassium is mined from ancient ocean deposits. The phosphorus we get from surface mining of phosphate rock. Although we have centuries of reserves of phosphate rock and millenia of reserves of potassium salts, mining is not sustainable, as these reserves will eventually run out. So, increasingly, producers are turning to seawater extraction for both. This forms a completely sustainable cycle, as the oceans are the ultimate destination of all plant matter and farm runoff."

/try science, it's a wonderful thing....
//hates ignorance
///really hates luddites
 
2011-10-20 03:39:42 PM  
Awesome! I LOVE these threads! Those organic foodie hipsters think they're better 'n me with their not wanting to eat factory farmer and GMO synthetic products! And besides, it is all just marketing... even if they do taste better and employ more sustainable practices for a modest increase in price. WHO DO THEY THINK THEY ARE? I learned all about their malarkey while watching Penn and Teller while cramming my maw with Cheetos and throwback Dew!
 
2011-10-20 03:40:50 PM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: bunner: Um... anything that rots is organic. Seriously.

By definition, anything that contains carbon is organic. Which includes almost every pesticide, hormone and antibiotic.


I've just been reading about how pesticide-free fruit can be much worse for you because the trees produce their own pesticides instead when insects attack.

And they're worse than the man made ones.

And they're inside the fruit so you peeling it won't make any difference.

The fruit from greenhouses is even cleaner - insects never even get inside the greenhouses in any numbers so they don't have to use anything.

Oh, and taste of tomatoes is all about the last few hours of the fruit's life not whether it's grown by hippies (it has to turn red on the bush not in a warehouse).
 
2011-10-20 03:45:43 PM  

BlaqueKatt: you are aware that "organic" pesticides/herbicides/fungicides are things like oil, and large amounts of copper and sulfur-right?


Yep, and the copper is really nasty shiat which ends up in the water table.

Not to mention the environmental destruction that copper mines cause.

Yes, all this 'bio', 'organic', 'natural' crap is basically a lie...

PS: Did you know all wheat is transgenic? The Egyptians messed with the pollination process and inserted genes from another plant into wheat to make it bigger/tastier.

But they did it 'naturally'...right? So it's good.
 
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