Subby nailed it.

wombatsrus: Subby nailed it.

Christ that was a bad pun.

Frederick: Anyone else think the home field advantage to St. Louis is bunk?

Yes. And I've been a Cards fan for 4 decades.

/Not saying we won't take it.
//Thanks, Prince Fielder.

Frederick: Anyone else think the home field advantage to St. Louis is bunk? The all-star game is an exhibition. I feel bad for Texas -the Rangers, that is.

The sport has become one big gimmick. Fark you, Bud Selig.

wombatsrus: Subby nailed it.

...would've been better with "Jesus Christ" at the end.

IlGreven: wombatsrus: Subby nailed it.

...would've been better with "Jesus Christ" at the end.

Or maybe a "God Dammit."

Frederick: The all-star game is an exhibition.

The World Series is an exhibition. Every professional sport on the planet is an exhibition. That's what pro sports are.

You can make the case that Bud Selig is doing all he can to make baseball as uninteresting as possible, but the real problem here is that athletes simply stopped caring.

Marcus Aurelius: Squeaking by in a one run game = hammers?

It is when you need it to make your pun work.

/seriously bad puns in that headline
//I lol'ed anyway

Frederick: Anyone else think the home field advantage to St. Louis is bunk? The all-star game is an exhibition. I feel bad for Texas -the Rangers, that is.

It's no more bunk than when an AL team gets HF advantage. It's a retarded way to determine who gets home field but it's been that way for a while now and has gone to the AL more often than not. (AL 2002 - 2009, NL 2010 & 2011)

Rex_Banner: Frederick: Anyone else think the home field advantage to St. Louis is bunk? The all-star game is an exhibition. I feel bad for Texas -the Rangers, that is.

It's not like it would have been any different under the old method of alternating years

HFA should go to the team with the best record. It's that simple.

Lt. Cheese Weasel: HFA should go to the team with the best record. It's that simple.

No, it's not that simple. A team can rack up a gaudy record with an easy schedule. It's made all the more possible thanks to the unbalanced schedule. Texas is in fact a good example. No, they didn't get the best record, but they made the playoffs at all by beating up a weak AL West to the tune of 40-17. They made it to the WS by getting hot at the right time, but their regular-season record against the brutal AL East was a pedestrian 22-22. They also went 9-9 in interleague play. Under your rules, a team can be rewarded for simply doing well in a weak division. It's better than alternating HFA but the All-Star game arguably gives the team a similar amount of control over their destiny.

For what it's worth, the most fair way to determine a champion (based somewhat on the existing formula) is with either seven neutral-site games or a tennis-style format where teams alternate playing 2 straight home games and must win by a two-game margin (minimum 6 games). But the former is ridiculous considering pro sports are basically entertainment, and the latter is impractical -- the teams could theoretically still be playing in January!

Just sayin'. . . Given the streaky nature of baseball, the WS has little to do with who's the best team anyway.

Frederick: Anyone else think the home field advantage to St. Louis is bunk? The all-star game is an exhibition. I feel bad for Texas -the Rangers, that is.

Im not really convinced home-field advantage is that much of an advantage anymore now that it's 2-3-2 instead of 2-2-1-1-1

Yes.. playing the first two and last two on the road can be a set-back. But if you can split the first road-games.. (or no matter WHAT you do, really... ) Coming home for THREE can be huge:)

see: NLCS:))

Chastain86: Texas Rangers fans:

This World Series, can you do us all a favor and -- after you lose a game -- just admit you got outplayed by a better team? All I read last night was you guys got jobbed by the officials, or the Busch stadium turf, or the lights, or HFA, or any number of things. Seriously, your fans whine so much it's damn near its own language.

They learned from the Cardinals.

Lt. Cheese Weasel: Rex_Banner: Frederick: Anyone else think the home field advantage to St. Louis is bunk? The all-star game is an exhibition. I feel bad for Texas -the Rangers, that is.

It's not like it would have been any different under the old method of alternating years

HFA should go to the team with the best record. It's that simple.

It's never gone to the team with the best record, at least in recent memory. I hate the All-Star game determining HFA as much as anyone, but all it did was replace alternating the venue between AL and NL teams each year. If you want fair, that's what it should return to. It's completely unbiased, and not driven by some sort of gimmick like it is currently.

Now, if they go to rolling interleague games like is being discussed and the AL and NL play each other more often during the regular season, I might be OK with the best overall record determining HFA. But for now the leagues are still too seperate--and playing under different rule sets--for me to think the record should determine things.

stlbluez: Im not really convinced home-field advantage is that much of an advantage anymore now that it's 2-3-2 instead of 2-2-1-1-1

Absolutely so much this.

Three straight home games is a massive advantage for any team. You just need to split one of those first two to make it possible the home team never returns home for another game. Simply absurd.

I know people complain about the extra travel and added length of the playoffs under the 2-2-1-1-1 format, but it generates a true advantage for the team that starts the series at home. And frankly, I dont' even think with baseball that you need to have off days between those last two games. It's not like they don't do home/away games on back to back days on numerous occasions throughout the season. If you drop the potential off day between games 6 and 7 in that format you've only added one day to the length of the series. Two overall to the playoffs if you adopt the same format in the LCS.

Chastain86: Texas Rangers fans:

This World Series, can you do us all a favor and -- after you lose a game -- just admit you got outplayed by a better team? All I read last night was you guys got jobbed by the officials, or the Busch stadium turf, or the lights, or HFA, or any number of things. Seriously, your fans whine so much it's damn near its own language.

Yup, because every single fan of the Rangers in the World was posting in places that you read.

Shrugging Atlas: If you want fair, that's what it should return to. It's completely unbiased, and not driven by some sort of gimmick like it is currently.

Unbiased =/= fair.
Roman military decimation was unbiased, but unfair.

Rex_Banner: The problem there is that one of the advantages to HFA is batting last. even at a neutral site one team gets that part of HFA.

The team that bats last gets fewer chances, if they're ahead. The visiting team always gets 27 outs. If there's any advantage, it's purely psychological and impossible to decouple from overall home field psychological advantage. If the home team batted first you'd be calling that the advantage and never know any better.

Frankly, the biggest tangible advantage to a baseball home field is that fields are not standardized outside the diamond. So clubs tend to design their teams around their home field. A neutral site negates that advantage. What's more problematic is the DH rule. That's impossible to handle in an unbiased manner without going to the tennis-style formula.

Shrugging Atlas: Three straight home games is a massive advantage for any team. You just need to split one of those first two to make it possible the home team never returns home for another game.

And by the exact same logic the other team needs to take only 1 of 3 to bring things right back to where they started. Are you that stupid?

dragonchild: The team that bats last gets fewer chances, if they're ahead. The visiting team always gets 27 outs. If there's any advantage, it's purely psychological and impossible to decouple from overall home field psychological advantage. If the home team batted first you'd be calling that the advantage and never know any better.

Frankly, the biggest tangible advantage to a baseball home field is that fields are not standardized outside the diamond. So clubs tend to design their teams around their home field. A neutral site negates that advantage. What's more problematic is the DH rule. That's impossible to handle in an unbiased manner without going to the tennis-style formula.


Batting last is a huge advantage in close games. The losing team always gets 27 outs, so fact that the visiting team always gets it is not an advantage.

But by batting last you know how many runs you need to score. Say the home team is down by 2. The leadoff hitter knows that a walk is pretty much just as good as a homerun.

Batting last also makes managing your bullpen in a close game much simpler. You don't have to worry about holding a lead once you get it.

Batting last is an huge advantage.

bigpeeler: bacongood: Chastain86: Texas Rangers fans:

This World Series, can you do us all a favor and -- after you lose a game -- just admit you got outplayed by a better team? All I read last night was you guys got jobbed by the officials, or the Busch stadium turf, or the lights, or HFA, or any number of things. Seriously, your fans whine so much it's damn near its own language.

They learned from the Cardinals.

Snazzy comeback. One notch above neener-neener.

Do you know who the Cardinals' manager is and what he has complained about this year?

bigpeeler: bacongood: Chastain86: Texas Rangers fans:

This World Series, can you do us all a favor and -- after you lose a game -- just admit you got outplayed by a better team? All I read last night was you guys got jobbed by the officials, or the Busch stadium turf, or the lights, or HFA, or any number of things. Seriously, your fans whine so much it's damn near its own language.

They learned from the Cardinals.

Snazzy comeback. One notch above neener-neener.

That's giving neener-neener a bad rap. I'd put it just below "Oh yeah??!!??" in it's originality.

bacongood: Do you know who the Cardinals' manager is and what he has complained about this year?

Yes we do, and yes, we do. We(Cardinals fans) have been witnessing it since 1996, and many of us are desensitized to it.

bacongood: But by batting last you know how many runs you need to score.

Only if you're behind. Otherwise you score as many as you can, and data indicates that offenses are actually more efficient when they operate that way. Which makes sense; the team is playing to their strengths and not the situation.

Your argument is based on very selectively biased what-ifs.

coffee fiend:
Yes we do, and yes, we do. We(Cardinals fans) have been witnessing it since 1996, and many of us are desensitized to it.

Clearly not all of you are desensitized to the whining if you complain about the Ranger fans doing it...

dragonchild: bacongood: But by batting last you know how many runs you need to score.

Only if you're behind. Otherwise you score as many as you can, and data indicates that offenses are actually more efficient when they operate that way. Which makes sense; the team is playing to their strengths and not the situation.

Your argument is based on very selectively biased what-ifs.

Of course it is. Batting first/last is irrelevant in a 10-2 game. But in the games where it comes into play, it is important.

dragonchild: And by the exact same logic the other team needs to take only 1 of 3 to bring things right back to where they started. Are you that stupid?

Don't embark on questioning someone's intelligence if you're going to cherrypick individual statements to try and accomplish it.

The overall point of the discussion is the 2-3-2 format being less advantageous to the 'home' team than a 2-2-1-1-1 format.

In the current format, the home team must win on the road to ensure a return to their home field in the event of a split of the first two games. The current format presents the opportunity for the 'visiting' team to never play on the road again simply by winning one of of their first two games.

Your own comment describes the problem with that setup:

the other team needs to take only 1 of 3 to bring things right back to where they started

With a 2-2-1-1-1 format that need no longer exists. A split of the first two games does not automatically create a scenario where the team that starts with home field advantage can never return home. That's the bottom line and the point of discussing the difference between the two playoff formats.

go national league!

Chastain86: Trackball: Chastain86: Texas Rangers fans:

This World Series, can you do us all a favor and -- after you lose a game -- just admit you got outplayed by a better team? All I read last night was you guys got jobbed by the officials, or the Busch stadium turf, or the lights, or HFA, or any number of things. Seriously, your fans whine so much it's damn near its own language.

Yup, because every single fan of the Rangers in the World was posting in places that you read.

Uh...okay? I didn't imply that every single Rangers fan in the world was posting on ESPN and Reddit last night. Just that the ones that did were all biatching up a storm that they wouldn't have lost if it weren't for blah-blah-blah. I don't understand your argument.

All I said was maybe the fans could make a concerted effort to own up to losses. Lose gracefully, that kind of thing. The Cardinals didn't get jobbed in 2004 by the Red Sox -- they got curbstomped, and it wasn't anybody's fault but their damn own. I don't hear a lot of Tigers fans biatching. You lose, you move on. Maybe if you guys would stop buying into ESPN's "expert" predictions you wouldn't feel like the crown was already yours.

Just to let you know what the local media and everyone I talk with has to say about last night... Straight edge is a super douche, tier 2 pitcher. When he's at his best, he's above average. He doesn't have fantastic stuff, not over powering, and gets easily flustered. In short, he' the #2 on most teams and in some club houses he's a #4. But he's the horse that got us here in the regular season. Also, Wash got out managed last night. That's it. I guess I haven't been paying attention to the so called "whining" eveywhere that you claim.

And don't think for a second that the "butthurt bandwagon clan" of fans doesn't exist in every city. Hell, in this very forum yesterday... it was posted that the Detroit Tigers are the REAL champions of this year had it not been for injuries.

bacongood: Do you know who the Cardinals' manager is and what he has complained about this year?

I know that Tony La Russa does complain A LOT. But that's also gamesmanship, and it's also lobbying for his team. And every now and then, it helps his team

Shrugging Atlas: Don't embark on questioning someone's intelligence if you're going to cherrypick individual statements to try and accomplish it.

Cherry-pick? That was the opening statement of your post for crissakes. And I used your own logic no less.

Shrugging Atlas: the other team needs to take only 1 of 3 to bring things right back to where they started

With a 2-2-1-1-1 format that need no longer exists.

Pot, meet kettle. OK, change "needs to" to "can get away with". Yeesh.

dragonchild: Pot, meet kettle. OK, change "needs to" to "can get away with". Yeesh.

You took a single sentence out of the post. Yep, that's cherry-picking regardless of where it was in the post. But given this next comment of yours, it's clear you have no farking idea what the point of the conversation even is, though I can't say whether or not it's because you didn't read anything prior to or after that single sentence, or if you're just simply too obtuse to undestand it.

Pot, meet kettle. OK, change "needs to" to "can get away with". Yeesh.

Goddamn. Anyway, let's to break it down for you: The single point of the discussion when it was raised by someone else was the simple fact a split by the away team in the 2-3-2 format creates a scenario where the team with homefield advantage may not return home. A split in the first two of a 2-2-1-1-1 format does not.

That's it. That's the crux of the conversation. If you understand that, you're more than welcome to debate whether or not the resulting scenario in either of those situations truly creates a situation that's more or less advantageous to one team or another. I contend it does, as did the farker that brought it up in the first place. You're welcome to agree or disagree, but at least you'll be up to speed.