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(Boing Boing) Stupid S#*@ scientists say   (boingboing.net) divider line 66
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7744 clicks; posted to Geek » on 19 Oct 2011 at 5:16 PM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»   |    Get this fabulous T-Shirt and impress the methane out of your friends! shirt it!



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2011-10-19 04:02:56 PM
Seems pretty nit-picky considering:

dtdstudios.com

dtdstudios.com

dtdstudios.com
 
2011-10-19 04:53:07 PM
Why is that stupid, subby? I can't tell you how many times I've had to explain the difference between a scientific theory and some random person's musings that they call a theory. Gravity is a theory, ferfuxake, but no one goes around saying that maybe it's actually Intelligent Attraction to the Earth.
 
2011-10-19 05:25:03 PM
img1.fark.net Benchmark SC.3.N.3.1: Recognize that words in science can have different or more specific meanings than their use in everyday language; for example, energy, cell, heat/cold, and evidence.
 
2011-10-19 05:31:58 PM
I had a hard time explaining "null hypothesis". I used the term, and the response I got was, "then why are we worrying about it?" After a long pause, I queried as to their meaning-- "uh.... wut?" They said, "If that hypothesis has been nullified, why are we worrying about it?" Ok, no problem... it was just an unfamiliar term. That led to an explanation, followed by proposal of different terms that "should" be used, followed by my explanation that there's not a chance in hell that I or the scientific community would change a perfectly good term because a couple of dumbfark project managers* couldn't wrap their heads around that simple idea.

This was the same meeting where I was told, "This sounds like a training and employee development problem. I see no reason why everyone can't be above average." Mind you, these were actual calculated values we were reviewing, not some criteria list on which "below", at, and "above" average were defined independent of observed values by some subjective grader.

* I in no way mean to indicate that all project managers are dumbfarks. A good project manager is worth twice their weight in gold. These two just happened to simultaneously possess the properties of being project managers and dumbfarks.
 
2011-10-19 05:33:40 PM
timujin: Why is that stupid, subby? I can't tell you how many times I've had to explain the difference between a scientific theory and some random person's musings that they call a theory. Gravity is a theory, ferfuxake, but no one goes around saying that maybe it's actually Intelligent Attraction to the Earth.

Perhaps subby thinks the stupid is calling on scientific types to consider common usage.

However, by doing so, it would make the technical world more accessible to laymen. Similar to how Brian Greene's books don't get into the math of quantum physics but they do explain the general principles.

Or subby doesn't like that scientists have a dialect of their own used for precision and expediency.

I give it 50/50 on either.
 
2011-10-19 05:33:59 PM
I'm not a scientist, but I still roll my eyes at 'organic' food.

Why yes, I do have well developed orbital muscles.
 
2011-10-19 05:39:39 PM
There's a new paper up in Physics Today, which argues that it's the responsibility of all scientists to think about the colloquial meanings of words and talk in a way the public can understand.

But here's the first step: Making it clear to scientists which words cause communication problems.



I nominate "magic." If a scientist happens to say something like "science = magic," who knows what some random moron on the Internet might do with that quote.

i224.photobucket.com
 
2011-10-19 05:45:18 PM
timujin: Why is that stupid, subby? I can't tell you how many times I've had to explain the difference between a scientific theory and some random person's musings that they call a theory. Gravity is a theory, ferfuxake, but no one goes around saying that maybe it's actually Intelligent Attraction to the Earth.

Gravity is not a theory, it is a force. There are theories of gravity that try to explain it. There are also laws of gravity that mathematically describe its action.
 
2011-10-19 05:48:26 PM
The funny thing is that all the "public" colloquial meanings are wrong and the "better choice"s are just the regular definitions of the terms.
 
2011-10-19 05:50:43 PM
Here's a suggestion for the list:

Scientific term: "Trick"
Public meaning: "Deceit, Fraud"
Better term: "Clever method"


=Smidge=
 
2011-10-19 05:54:57 PM
Pancoaifo: Or subby doesn't like that scientists have a dialect of their own used for precision accuracy and expediency.

FTFY
 
2011-10-19 05:57:45 PM
How about "obvious", as used in mathematics? To the layperson (and Google) it means, "easily perceived or understood; clear, self-evident, or apparent." To the mathematician, it may mean that, or "I don't feel like explaining this", or, "I leave this as an exercise to you", or, "there's not enough blackboard left to explain why this is true", or, "Oh, crap, I forgot to work this out before the lecture", or, "If you can't figure this out, perhaps you should consider another class?", or, "Oh, please, please, please let this be true...".

In fairness, though, the ones that vary from pretty strict rigor tend to be quite uncommon.
 
2011-10-19 05:58:12 PM
jigger: Gravity is not a theory, it is a force. There are theories of gravity that try to explain it. There are also laws of gravity that mathematically describe its action.

It's better to use "number theory" when making that point anyway. One can say things like "number theory proved that" and such as.
 
2011-10-19 06:03:58 PM
My brain needs re-wiring. I thought it was some some comical pick n mix chart where any word from each column could be used to make a stupid sentence to mock scientists. I spend a few seconds analysing "enhance spray can upward trend", before I realised I should read the title and column headers.

In my defence it's because the first thing my brain saw was "aerosol spray can intensify", which is why it thought it was the pick n mix chart.
 
2011-10-19 06:06:57 PM
jigger: timujin: Why is that stupid, subby? I can't tell you how many times I've had to explain the difference between a scientific theory and some random person's musings that they call a theory. Gravity is a theory, ferfuxake, but no one goes around saying that maybe it's actually Intelligent Attraction to the Earth.

Gravity is not a theory, it is a force. There are theories of gravity that try to explain it. There are also laws of gravity that mathematically describe its action.


And pedantry like that is what makes laymen shut their brains down.

Yes, you're right, but it's not helpful in opening the world of science to outsiders.

It may seem utterly clear cut to us but many people don't even stumble over an abstract concept until after highschool, if ever.

Science may progress without these laymen but imagine how much more if the laymen were excited about it? Rather than incomprehensible lab coats talking about that piece of grit named after a mate in the navy?
 
2011-10-19 06:09:45 PM
No, scientists don't need a Frank Luntz.
 
2011-10-19 06:15:40 PM
jigger: Gravity is not a theory, it is a force. There are theories of gravity that try to explain it. There are also laws of gravity that mathematically describe its action.

Whatever. When am I ever going to use this "gravity" in the real world?
 
2011-10-19 06:22:55 PM
There's a new paper up in Physics Today, which argues that it's the responsibility of all scientists to think about the colloquial meanings of words and talk in a way the public can understand.

I would argue that it's the responsibility of the general public to not be scientifically illiterate.
 
2011-10-19 06:23:26 PM
Smidge204: Here's a suggestion for the list:

Scientific term: "Trick"
Public meaning: "Thing whores do"
Better term: "ILLUSION!"


themagpieonline.com

/Couldn't resist
 
2011-10-19 06:24:22 PM
Pancoaifo: jigger: timujin: Why is that stupid, subby? I can't tell you how many times I've had to explain the difference between a scientific theory and some random person's musings that they call a theory. Gravity is a theory, ferfuxake, but no one goes around saying that maybe it's actually Intelligent Attraction to the Earth.

Gravity is not a theory, it is a force. There are theories of gravity that try to explain it. There are also laws of gravity that mathematically describe its action.

And pedantry like that is what makes laymen shut their brains down.

Yes, you're right, but it's not helpful in opening the world of science to outsiders.

It may seem utterly clear cut to us but many people don't even stumble over an abstract concept until after highschool, if ever.

Science may progress without these laymen but imagine how much more if the laymen were excited about it? Rather than incomprehensible lab coats talking about that piece of grit named after a mate in the navy?


At the same time words need precise meaning, the alternative to what you're opposed to (using existing words in precise manners) is to make up entirely new words in order to not be unclear, which results in at least as significant a gap of public/scientific terminology, and it makes scientific terminology even more painful when suddenly you can't say "theory" every again because some dickweasel decided everything they thought was a "theory."

And then dickweasels will start taking the new works and misuse them, and then we'll need new words...fark it, fark the layman. At some point you need words that work.
 
2011-10-19 06:30:14 PM
I like to convince random people that when the temperature is 0f it's called "Absolute Zero".

I hope some of them use that at dinner parties.
 
2011-10-19 06:34:39 PM
Words have meaning, and laymen are too ignorant to use words properly.
 
2011-10-19 06:35:30 PM
Eh, sometimes it doesn't matter how clear you are.

Article: "X raises incidence of cancer by 0.01% over 10 years"
Media: "X causes cancer"
 
2011-10-19 06:44:38 PM
Barakku: Pancoaifo: jigger: timujin: Why is that stupid, subby? I can't tell you how many times I've had to explain the difference between a scientific theory and some random person's musings that they call a theory. Gravity is a theory, ferfuxake, but no one goes around saying that maybe it's actually Intelligent Attraction to the Earth.

Gravity is not a theory, it is a force. There are theories of gravity that try to explain it. There are also laws of gravity that mathematically describe its action.

And pedantry like that is what makes laymen shut their brains down.

Yes, you're right, but it's not helpful in opening the world of science to outsiders.

It may seem utterly clear cut to us but many people don't even stumble over an abstract concept until after highschool, if ever.

Science may progress without these laymen but imagine how much more if the laymen were excited about it? Rather than incomprehensible lab coats talking about that piece of grit named after a mate in the navy?

At the same time words need precise meaning, the alternative to what you're opposed to (using existing words in precise manners) is to make up entirely new words in order to not be unclear, which results in at least as significant a gap of public/scientific terminology, and it makes scientific terminology even more painful when suddenly you can't say "theory" every again because some dickweasel decided everything they thought was a "theory."

And then dickweasels will start taking the new works and misuse them, and then we'll need new words...fark it, fark the layman. At some point you need words that work.


I'm not opposed to using words in a precise manner. I'm just suggesting that scientists find a way to explain themselves in plain language.

If you can get someone interested in the general concepts, then you can start nailing down details. (like how terms are specifically applied)

The point is not to dumb down science but to get more people into it.
 
2011-10-19 06:58:13 PM
 
2011-10-19 07:08:32 PM
Term: Anecdote
Public Meaning: Data
Better Choice: Fish Story, Fark Post
 
2011-10-19 07:14:54 PM
Smidge204: Here's a suggestion for the list:

Scientific term: "Trick"
Public meaning: "Deceit, Fraud"
Better term: "Clever method"


=Smidge=




Or

Scientific term: "Hide"
Public meaning: "Conceal, Keep out of view"
Better Term: "Manual data upgrade"
 
2011-10-19 07:15:20 PM
Smidge204: Here's a suggestion for the list:

Scientific term: "Trick"
Public meaning: "Deceit, Fraud"
Better term: "Clever method"


=Smidge=


I get what you're saying (and I certainly agree with the point your making) but it doesn't seem to fit this list as well as the others. "Trick" doesn't really have a precise, specific, well-defined, scientific meaning like the others have and it actually is used colloquially to mean a clever method/technique.

It just that, in one particular case, some people found it politically convenient to try and pretend that it always means something deceitful.

In short: I wouldn't bother adding it to the list, I'd just use a regular dictionary.
 
2011-10-19 07:16:52 PM
Kome: There's a new paper up in Physics Today, which argues that it's the responsibility of all scientists to think about the colloquial meanings of words and talk in a way the public can understand.

I would argue that it's the responsibility of the general public to not be scientifically illiterate.


While that is what we want, I don't think it's practical. It would be easier to have the smaller group (the scientists) simply recognize who their audience is, and speak to them in a language they can understand.

It's common in forensics (we have to speak to jury members, and explain complex topics to a group with an average education level of 5th grade). I've also seen it with public projects, particularly in the toxicology field. Toxicologists have to sooth public concerns, and explain the science behind what's going on.

We can't just assume our audience knows what we're talking about, especially when the majority in the audience doesn't have anywhere near our level of education. The point is to be clearly understood so that knowledge can be gained, and if our words are being confused then it's our fault for not speaking to our audience correctly.

Note: This only applies when we're directly addressing the public. When we're addressing other scientists, such as in journals, then we use scientific terms, and it's on the individual reading our paper to know the terminology.
 
2011-10-19 07:18:12 PM
Term: politics
Public meaning: collective decision
Better choice: posturing
 
2011-10-19 07:24:24 PM
DarnoKonrad: No, scientists don't need a Frank Luntz.

The earth doesn't need that cocksucker.
 
2011-10-19 07:29:31 PM
treesloth: I had a hard time explaining "null hypothesis". I used the term, and the response I got was, "then why are we worrying about it?" After a long pause, I queried as to their meaning-- "uh.... wut?" They said, "If that hypothesis has been nullified, why are we worrying about it?" Ok, no problem... it was just an unfamiliar term. That led to an explanation, followed by proposal of different terms that "should" be used, followed by my explanation that there's not a chance in hell that I or the scientific community would change a perfectly good term because a couple of dumbfark project managers* couldn't wrap their heads around that simple idea.

This was the same meeting where I was told, "This sounds like a training and employee development problem. I see no reason why everyone can't be above average." Mind you, these were actual calculated values we were reviewing, not some criteria list on which "below", at, and "above" average were defined independent of observed values by some subjective grader.

* I in no way mean to indicate that all project managers are dumbfarks. A good project manager is worth twice their weight in gold. These two just happened to simultaneously possess the properties of being project managers and dumbfarks.


This is why MBAs have no business running a lab or engineering firm (unless they have an undergraduate in engineering or science). I get so tired of their ignorance. This is also why most companies that once were considered to be "cutting edge" are not what they used to be. They've replaced their senior engineers with "managers" that specialized in bean counting and not anything relevant to their chosen industry.
 
2011-10-19 07:34:25 PM
mgshamster: Kome: There's a new paper up in Physics Today, which argues that it's the responsibility of all scientists to think about the colloquial meanings of words and talk in a way the public can understand.

I would argue that it's the responsibility of the general public to not be scientifically illiterate.

While that is what we want, I don't think it's practical. It would be easier to have the smaller group (the scientists) simply recognize who their audience is, and speak to them in a language they can understand.

It's common in forensics (we have to speak to jury members, and explain complex topics to a group with an average education level of 5th grade). I've also seen it with public projects, particularly in the toxicology field. Toxicologists have to sooth public concerns, and explain the science behind what's going on.

We can't just assume our audience knows what we're talking about, especially when the majority in the audience doesn't have anywhere near our level of education. The point is to be clearly understood so that knowledge can be gained, and if our words are being confused then it's our fault for not speaking to our audience correctly.

Note: This only applies when we're directly addressing the public. When we're addressing other scientists, such as in journals, then we use scientific terms, and it's on the individual reading our paper to know the terminology.


I know. I'm just bitter that, at least in the US, scientific literacy in particular (and education in general) is so undervalued that simple words and phrases like "theory" or "positive feedback" are misunderstood by such a large portion of the population. Science is fun. It's interesting. And, frankly, knowing some of it is getting more and more important.
 
2011-10-19 07:35:32 PM
nicoffeine: I'm not a scientist, but I still roll my eyes at 'organic' food.

Even within the scientific community, chemists and biologists have different meanings for organic. But hey, that's language for you, context matters.

/A mole is

1) 6.022×10^23
2) An animal that burrows through the ground
3) An embedded spy
4) A Mexican sauce
5) A type of lesion that grows on your skin
6) A type of pier
 
2011-10-19 07:41:02 PM
They always be lyin' and makin' me pissed!
 
2011-10-19 07:43:26 PM
Kome: I know. I'm just bitter that, at least in the US, scientific literacy in particular (and education in general) is so undervalued that simple words and phrases like "theory" or "positive feedback" are misunderstood by such a large portion of the population. Science is fun. It's interesting. And, frankly, knowing some of it is getting more and more important.

I figured. I wrote it primarily for lurkers, and not so much to argue against you.

/There's a reason your posts show up in green.
 
2011-10-19 07:49:55 PM
lordargent: nicoffeine: I'm not a scientist, but I still roll my eyes at 'organic' food.

Even within the scientific community, chemists and biologists have different meanings for organic. But hey, that's language for you, context matters.

/A mole is

1) 6.022×10^23
2) An animal that burrows through the ground
3) An embedded spy
4) A Mexican sauce
5) A type of lesion that grows on your skin
6) A type of pier


images.wikia.com
 
2011-10-19 07:55:49 PM
timujin: Gravity is a theory, ferfuxake, but no one goes around saying that maybe it's actually Intelligent Attraction to the Earth.

Ha! Common misconception of the Layman. I feel the need to point out that We prefer the term "Intelligent Falling".

Please, don't oppress Us further than Reverse Intelligent "norms" already do in society, because it actually is proscribed for Us to utilize the inherent ineptitude of the Layman to our own advantage, almost like you might scoff and use your Science at xtians - LOL!! ;-)

Hope We're on the same page, brothel - Peace!!
 
2011-10-19 07:57:10 PM
*brother, not brothel - sorry, wrong end of the keyboard!

Mods, where is the edit post thing?
 
2011-10-19 08:34:20 PM
jigger: timujin: Why is that stupid, subby? I can't tell you how many times I've had to explain the difference between a scientific theory and some random person's musings that they call a theory. Gravity is a theory, ferfuxake, but no one goes around saying that maybe it's actually Intelligent Attraction to the Earth.

Gravity is not a theory, it is a force. There are theories of gravity that try to explain it. There are also laws of gravity that mathematically describe its action.


A random musing is called a hypothesis. I carry a mini Michio Kaku around to explain all that crap to me. Every one should have one.
 
2011-10-19 08:46:39 PM
satanorsanta: Words have meaning, and laymen are too ignorant to use words properly.

Other fields call laymen "the public."
 
2011-10-19 10:21:54 PM
impaler: Pancoaifo: Or subby doesn't like that scientists have a dialect of their own used for precision accuracy and expediency.

FTFY


In certain circles, accuracy and precision mean completely different things. I can be accurate (I hit the target nine times with this gun) but being precise (I hit the target nine times with this gun, 7 of which hit the bullseye) may not be the case.
 
2011-10-19 10:33:08 PM
th0th: In certain circles, accuracy and precision mean completely different things. I can be accurate (I hit the target nine times with this gun) but being precise (I hit the target nine times with this gun, 7 of which hit the bullseye) may not be the case.

I think you need a quick refresher yourself

www.fas.org
 
2011-10-19 10:35:06 PM
mgshamster: Kome: I know. I'm just bitter that, at least in the US, scientific literacy in particular (and education in general) is so undervalued that simple words and phrases like "theory" or "positive feedback" are misunderstood by such a large portion of the population. Science is fun. It's interesting. And, frankly, knowing some of it is getting more and more important.

I figured. I wrote it primarily for lurkers, and not so much to argue against you.

/There's a reason your posts show up in green.


Fair enough. I'm still bitter, though. =(

/no one appreciates my work...
 
2011-10-19 10:50:20 PM
the_sidewinder: th0th: In certain circles, accuracy and precision mean completely different things. I can be accurate (I hit the target nine times with this gun) but being precise (I hit the target nine times with this gun, 7 of which hit the bullseye) may not be the case.

I think you need a quick refresher yourself

[www.fas.org image 510x443]


I think you need a quick refresher in reading comprehension. What part of In certain circles, accuracy and precision mean completely different things wasn't clear?
 
2011-10-19 10:53:32 PM
th0th: I think you need a quick refresher in reading comprehension

That I do, the first few times I read it, I did not realize that you were including accuracy with precision in your second example
 
2011-10-19 10:56:30 PM
Scientists should not dumb-down literature for laypeople. It's the responsibility of the media to present the story in a way their audience can understand. Scientists have reasons for choosing the words they do in their technical writing and it isn't wise to throw that library of agreed-upon terminology away just because somebody outside of the field is unable to correctly understand it.
 
2011-10-19 10:58:50 PM
Kome: Science is fun.

This is one you have to be careful with. I gave a tour to some mucky-mucks some years ago and sprinkled basic descriptions of what they were seeing with rambling about "this is a fun experiment that.... " Later I was told they thought we weren't working hard because everything was described as "fun". D'oh. When a scientist says something is "fun" they mean they are excited enough by it to bust their ass week after week getting it to work, collecting the data, and writing it up for publication.

So I mostly replaced fun with "interesting" and "exciting".
 
2011-10-19 11:05:18 PM
the_sidewinder: th0th: I think you need a quick refresher in reading comprehension

That I do, the first few times I read it, I did not realize that you were including accuracy with precision in your second example


The graph you mentioned was what I was looking for initially, but I was Google-lazy. I've had to train scientists about these very topics and it gets confusing to them as well. And they're the ones collecting the data about those parameters.

I won't go into experimental design robustness...that's an entirely different type of topic, altogether.
 
2011-10-20 12:11:47 AM
the_sidewinder: I think you need a quick refresher yourself

Dude, I'm accurate and precise, I totally meant to make a pentagram.
 
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