Nice try guys. I always wondered what it would be like if they picked up the story after Neo awakens humanity to the tune of Rage Against the Machine and flies off.

What Matrix sequels?

I liked them.

I thought Reloaded had the possibility of setting up a great conclusion to the trilogy. Then Revolutions came out and crapped all over it.

The sequels weren't awful as much as they where uneven and often incomprehensible messes. Which, of course, allows the shiathead shallow contrarian AV Club to swoop in with their attention-whoring headlines.

I liked Reloaded, it set up some very interesting questions, which they then failed to address in Revolutions. They just gave up and made Neo the ultimate Anti-Virus program. Big whoop.

When Neo killed the Sentinals at the end of Reloaded, I said, "Wow, they're actually inside a second layer Matrix!" They proceeded to ignore that story path and instead gave Neo magical powers. I was dissapoint.

/liked the music, got the CD

Oh, this I gotta read.

The article and the resulting comments.

I liked all three films. But I think too many people, including the creators, became too obsessed with symbolism and allegory and metaphors and blah blah blah. Just let the story speak for itself. It's a good story; it would have been better if we didn't have every half-wit comparing screen shots to Jesus or Superman, or the directors for putting them in there.

Burninate: I'm obviously in the vast majority here, but I agree with the gist of the article. I'm in no way trying to say the sequels are as good as the original, but I honestly don't think they're anywhere near as bad as people make them out to be. But then again I'm easily amused.

The second one wasn't bad and I thought was fairly tolerable. It was I think in line with the general degredation one sees in most sequels, particularly when the bar is set fairly high by the original.

The third was just horrible though.

Reloaded was fun.

Revolutions was stupid. However, I did like how no one except the machines know that Neo sacrificed himself to save humanity, so it means that humanity has no proof that Neo in fact stopped the war, unless they want to believe the machines, and even if the machines want to spill that information, so they'll just have to listen to Morpheus and his ramblings.

mark12A: When Neo killed the Sentinals at the end of Reloaded, I said, "Wow, they're actually inside a second layer Matrix!" They proceeded to ignore that story path and instead gave Neo magical powers. I was dissapoint.

Very much this. I walked out of the theater after Reloaded super hyped about seeing the third. And then it just completely failed to deliver.

I liked Reloaded... not as much as the original... but it was fun...

Revolutions... eh... the last fight was cool...

The franchise peaked pretty much with the Animatrix anthology in my opinion.

Actually I would love to see the concept expanded with another collection of short stories in the same universe.

mark12A: I liked Reloaded, it set up some very interesting questions, which they then failed to address in Revolutions. They just gave up and made Neo the ultimate Anti-Virus program. Big whoop.

When Neo killed the Sentinals at the end of Reloaded, I said, "Wow, they're actually inside a second layer Matrix!" They proceeded to ignore that story path and instead gave Neo magical powers. I was dissapoint.

From my understanding, that IS still part of the debate... that they are in a secondary layer Matrix which is part of the fail-safe / restore system.

So that in fact, they don't even know how far they are in... could be even more layers (redundant safeties) and humans might not even exist anymore and are simply ghosts in the machine.

Or it could be that there's only a few actual humans (minds) left and the rest of the population are "bots" and the matrix is something that they entered voluntarily to continue to exist after their bodies died. This would explain the fact that there's multiple generations of Neo (and the rest of the jolly gang) that look the exact same generation after generation of the matrix.

Everything was in a matrix. The humans and machines. I know this by using a special program to look in my CPU biorhythms. Even our world is in a matrix. Tinfoil shorts out the matrix and allows people to see the truth. But it is special tinfoil. Crafted from the essence of micrometeorites.

/Machines were dumb and instead of killing the anomalies, they kept them in another matrix to avoid loss of all those copper tops.
//The dead were liquefied and fed to the living, so why not kill someone with a bus and then liquefy.....
///Eror...Error... Erorrr.rrorworeore.reroeoere.re.reoreree.re.r.er.e.oroeoreo.ro.eewreoe rowe.refa.fadvdsav.

There were sequels to the Matrix? Why wasn't I told about this? Who's in charge?

Trinity's death scene in Revolutions was the worst ever in the history of cinema.

mattharvest: Some ready examples:
1. No good explanation for how Neo can interact with machines while outside the network. It would have been trivial, e.g., to explain that somehow he had a nano-tech wireless rig (him having an independent ability to jack into the matrix, giving himself a sort of double-login, could have been tied to the nature of his power in the Matrix).

He's never outside a "network"... the "outside" is just another matrix that's made to look like they aren't in the Matrix anymore.


2. No explanation whatsoever for why the sentinels - each a living, conscious killer - would fly in a swarm formation instead of dodging incoming fire during their attack on Zion. If this is really so many iterations in, their Sentinels should have been (as the Agents described) very, very good at it.

The actual intelligence isn't within each sentinel, but controls one at a time or multiple wave. The higher the number controlled, the less detailed control occurs.


3. No explanation for why the machines didn't just use a neutron bomb or other biological weapon.
It's part of the "restore program" to have the human minds fight.... keeps them busy doing something instead of figuring things out (as the fact that they are still in a matrix)

4. No explanation for most of the "cool" ideas (e.g. what the Merovingian was, really).
Look it up (new window)

5. No explanation for why the mechs the humans use have basically no armor, and instead put their driver in the bullseye, unprotected center.
The mechs are moving pew-pew-pew platforms, armor would be too heavy/bulky to permit the movement that they have. I'd say that any armor would be useless as the sentinels would simply rip right through anything.

6. No explanation for why the machines don't use any weapons, e.g. projectiles.
The sentinels have lasers that slice through the ships, so they have weapons... but it's about limiting the damage as once it's over (the war), they have to rebuild everything for the next generation.

7. No 'rogue' character (this is much the same Han Solo problem the prequels had), i.e. we just have the perfectly good, and the perfectly bad. There is no normal person for the viewer to relate to (in the first Matrix, we still relate to Neo).
It's about good and evil... principle human feelings. Most believe themselves to be good, while the machine is "bad".

The machine doesn't care, it just wants to keep things working.

Why?

1) humans = power ? that's actually not much of a true possibility
2) humans = processing units for the machine consciousness (possible)
3) humans = did it to themselves to keep themselves "alive" (another possibility)
4) ??

At this point, the possibilities goes beyond what the writers started with, so it's hard to define anything as it's now goes with whoever's imagination can think of./

imfallen_angel: mark12A: I liked Reloaded, it set up some very interesting questions, which they then failed to address in Revolutions. They just gave up and made Neo the ultimate Anti-Virus program. Big whoop.

When Neo killed the Sentinals at the end of Reloaded, I said, "Wow, they're actually inside a second layer Matrix!" They proceeded to ignore that story path and instead gave Neo magical powers. I was dissapoint.

From my understanding, that IS still part of the debate... that they are in a secondary layer Matrix which is part of the fail-safe / restore system.

So that in fact, they don't even know how far they are in... could be even more layers (redundant safeties) and humans might not even exist anymore and are simply ghosts in the machine.

Or it could be that there's only a few actual humans (minds) left and the rest of the population are "bots" and the matrix is something that they entered voluntarily to continue to exist after their bodies died. This would explain the fact that there's multiple generations of Neo (and the rest of the jolly gang) that look the exact same generation after generation of the matrix.

My little sister who is a film buff and went to school to be a director or writer told me there were shorts she read that explained it this way. That the elders in the temple were really part of the Matrix, like watchers. I don't recall the whole deal but it had to do with different Marix levels if I remember correctly. It was a while back.

mattharvest: 2. No explanation whatsoever for why the sentinels - each a living, conscious killer - would fly in a swarm formation instead of dodging incoming fire during their attack on Zion. If this is really so many iterations in, their Sentinels should have been (as the Agents described) very, very good at it.

1)They were flying through little holes in what appeared to be a dome-like area.
2) Swarms are farking efficient, as demonstrated by the movie.

I loved the sequel.

imfallen_angel: but it's about limiting the damage as once it's over (the war), they have to rebuild everything for the next generation.

Rebuild what? If they're still inside a matrix then it's all just code and they can do whatever they want.

That coward David Lopan: There were sequels to the Matrix? Why wasn't I told about this? Who's in charge?

I couldn't figure out what the fark was going on in either sequel and that was a major reason why they sucked.

CitizenTed: I hated the sequels.

The Matrix was a brilliant and interesting sci-fi "down the rabbit hole" story. It wasn't a wholly original story, but down-the-rabbit-hole stories are compelling fantasy and this one had tantalizing plausibility. The subsequent action sequences were fantastical outcomes of the primary plot, not just a reason to have big action sequences.

The sequels sucked and were ghey. They were a carefully choreographed series of fight scenes with just enough backstory injected to have them hang together in a "Matrixy" way. The literary sci-fi aspect of the first film was submerged in favor of glossy dross.

The Matrix was a film worthy of historical note. The sequels were popcorn fun for dumbasses.

Because the Wachowski brothers stole the script for the first one from someone (who later settled with them out of court) but had to write the sequels themselves.

Hyperbolic Hyperbole: Mouse was a terrible character.

And the underage gunner who lets the Hammer back into port is Mouse 2.0

Also Jada Pinkett's character was unnecessary

And the Neo vs. 100 or so Smiths fight is one of the worst f*cking CGI shiatfests ever committed to screen.

But

I liked the sequels.

But you know what? I also liked the Pirates of the Caribbean sequels.

Soooo



Sooo, cause and effect. I drank too much wine, I have to take a piss.

SuperChuck: imfallen_angel: but it's about limiting the damage as once it's over (the war), they have to rebuild everything for the next generation.

Rebuild what? If they're still inside a matrix then it's all just code and they can do whatever they want.

I'd think that it would be similar to a hard drive defrag... a very large hard drive that would take a crapload of time to defrag to restore things back to original (or a full reboot/restore)...

So the least files to move or restore, the less waste in cycles.

And going with that in mind, to wipe and restart things might equal a loss in knowledge, experience, etc. and the sentience doesn't want to lost "brain cells".

Just one way to look at it.

The problem with the sequels is quite simple: it's bad story-telling.

Everything that happens in Reloaded is essentially pointless. It's all meant to set-up Revolutions, but you can't have a 2.5 hour set-up movie. In any sequel, the second movie must be able to stand on it's own without the bookmarks of the first and third. Granted, you can skip a lot of the exposition and character introductions, but it needs to tell it's own story. Finally, the hero still needs to take a journey of self-discovery throughout the story. But since there was really no plot to Reloaded, there was also no character arc. Neo wasn't really all that different at the beginning of the movie as he was at the end.

The pace of Reloaded was horrible. The movie came to a screeching halt anytime the focus went to Zion. Unlike in the original Matrix, the scenes of the Neb existed only to break-up the action within the Matrix. They were typically short and - when tons of exposition was needed - they SHOWED instead of TOLD. When the movie climaxes with the Architect, yeesh.... All momentum is gone. The conversation is LITERALLY seven minutes long and is just two people talking in place.

Finally, the scenes in Reloaded, while often times very exciting and visually stunning, carried no weight. A hundred Agent Smiths fight Neo; Neo runs. The Merovingian's crew fights Neo, Neo runs.

The major issue with Revolutions is that it takes the best part of the Matrix movies (being inside the Matrix) and removes it. Other than the final fight between Neo and Smith, very few interesting scenes happen within the confines of the Matrix. The leaves all of the major action occurring within the confines of the real world; and as we discovered in the past two movies, the real world isn't all that interesting.

We have the same problem with Revolutions as we do with Reloaded in that the movie does not stand on it's own. If someone watched ROTJ first - having not seen the other two movies - could still very much enjoy it. There is a cohesive beginning, middle, end and the characters make a journey of self-discovery during the course of the film. This does not happen in Revolutions.

Even if you combine both films into one long film, it still lacks any cohesiveness or character arc. It is like a slow train going down a boring track to it's inevitable destination; it's neither memorable nor interesting, and when we reach the end, we just shrug our shoulders and say, "Well, that's over with..."

The original Matrix was like the original Star Wars - it created an amazing playground-of-a-world for interesting characters to play in. The sequels we like the Transformer movie sequels - load, visually stunning, but lacking any depth or purpose.

The Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions - simply put - had no reason to even be made other than to cash in on it's remarkable predecessor.

Pants_Optional: CitizenTed: I hated the sequels.

The Matrix was a brilliant and interesting sci-fi "down the rabbit hole" story. It wasn't a wholly original story, but down-the-rabbit-hole stories are compelling fantasy and this one had tantalizing plausibility. The subsequent action sequences were fantastical outcomes of the primary plot, not just a reason to have big action sequences.

The sequels sucked and were ghey. They were a carefully choreographed series of fight scenes with just enough backstory injected to have them hang together in a "Matrixy" way. The literary sci-fi aspect of the first film was submerged in favor of glossy dross.

The Matrix was a film worthy of historical note. The sequels were popcorn fun for dumbasses.

Because the Wachowski brothers stole the script for the first one from someone (who later settled with them out of court) but had to write the sequels themselves.

Wasn't it a total rip off of some comic from the 90's?

mark12A: When Neo killed the Sentinals at the end of Reloaded, I said, "Wow, they're actually inside a second layer Matrix!" They proceeded to ignore that story path and instead gave Neo magical powers. I was dissapoint.

Suddenly, Neo's a Jedi! *facepalm*

"Nice try".

I'll take a shot at the sentinel-related questions.

mattharvest:
2. No explanation whatsoever for why the sentinels - each a living, conscious killer - would fly in a swarm formation instead of dodging incoming fire during their attack on Zion. If this is really so many iterations in, their Sentinels should have been (as the Agents described) very, very good at it.

I never got that the sentinels were individually conscious (or, indeed, that any machine was.. they're all remote-controlled software, right?) They seem designed to be used as a liquid destruction device, poured into whatever crevice the humans are inhabiting. I did watch the animatrix too, and I don't recall anything describing any machine as individually sentient.


6. No explanation for why the machines don't use any weapons, e.g. projectiles.

See above, I think the sentinels *are* a sort of projectile.

I have a question for the first "Matrix". What was Morpheus' IRL name ? He wasn't born in Zion he had plugs. Neo is repeatedly called Mr Anderson by agent Smith and it's a running gag. Cypher is called Mr Reagan when he sells out to the agents but Morpheus is only known by his hacker alias to the agents and not Mr Fishburne or Mr anything else.

This made me think of the sequels going in a completely different direction than I thought they would when they talked about the previous attempts at creating the perfect world.

Everybody knows that The Matrix died in a plane crash in the autumn of 2001. There were so sequels or survivors.

TimeWaste: I liked all three films. But I think too many people, including the creators, became too obsessed with symbolism and allegory and metaphors and blah blah blah. Just let the story speak for itself. It's a good story; it would have been better if we didn't have every half-wit comparing screen shots to Jesus or Superman, or the directors for putting them in there.

The problem, as mentioned, is that the first film is good. Start, middle, climax, ending. a great stand-alone movie.

But the next two are one giant, long drawn out....how will neo solve this puzzle? Written after the fact, to cash in on first movie's success...if you know they are already releasing a third movie...you're fairly confident he's not going to die in the second. Plus, you know the movie is just going to end at some random point after 2 hours.

The plot isn't moving toward a conclusion...it's just moving for the sake of getting you to the next movie.

I have a valid defense for the sequels.



Skip everything else.

I much preferred Reloaded to Revolutions. However, unfortunately, they just never really explained some of the characters. The Merovingian could have been interesting, but they never really explain who he is and why he's important. To that end, the Twins, also potentially interesting, are actually fairly irrelevant - they do nothing but help drive that chase scene, and then all of a sudden they're gone. There was no investment in the characters, and it just made it boring.

Gunny Highway: I liked them.

Remember that time in Revolutions when Neo went into that closet and had an incomprehensible conversation with the Architect for five minutes? That was awesome.

ftfa:

The second reason The Matrix did so well is that it's very, very good. Even now, after two decades of other films aping its visual style and special effects, the original remains instantly hooky, with one grabby scene after another.