Took them long enough.

Doesn't matter now, though... FOSS's big encharito (Android) is currently a lawsuit magnet, and the parties suing the OEMs don't use a lot of Android devices to begin with.

There's a good argument to be made (not on Fark - the signal-to-noise ratio is far too low for it to be of any use here) that software patents are shoehorning in a 16th-century "fix" for a 20th-century problem.

Copyright the final code base (so no one can directly rip off your code), slap ^TM symbols on every single graphic you use, patent the design of the chips you use to move that data around, but patenting (for example) the use of mini-games on loading screens should not be allowed.

If the code library permits it, there are likely several different ways of achieving the goal (and developers may actually try and use one of the well-formed solutions). Process Patenting software is taking tools out of that box.

// that example is 100% real

U MAD

Do away with patents altogether?

Do patent trolls even use other people's patents?

One possible anti-troll protection measure would be to change the agreement so that if someone sues an OpenSim developer for a patent violation, they will lose the right to use the OpenSim code.

I would think that if they are suing for patent violation, then they already have the code. That's why they're suing. Because you copied their code.

Dr Dreidel: but patenting (for example) the use of mini-games on loading screens should not be allowed.

The patent has to very specifically describe the process. While the USPTO is not above granting the occasional overly broad patent, a patent like you describe doesn't patent any use of mini-games on loading screens. Other people can do it- they just have to do it in a way that doesn't run afoul of the patent. All that requires is that they don't infringe too many of the specific claims.

Honest Bender: That's why they're suing. Because you copied their code.

Code is not protected by patent. A process for doing something is protected by patents. Two people could easily have the same idea, write code to do it, and never talk to each other or know the other exists- but the guy who has a patent on the idea is at a market advantage.

Long story short: patents aren't the problem. The civil court system is structured in a way that someone with deep pockets can run someone without deep pockets out of business without ever getting to a trial. That's the problem.

Would it be possible to prevent dedicated patent troll law firms from using a patent in a product they otherwise own?

For instance:

No Apache web servers for your law firm if you sue anyone alleging that any part of Apache infringes.

No Black Berries if your law firm sues RIM for anything.

t3knomanser: Code is not protected by patent. A process for doing something is protected by patents.

Gotcha. I thought code could be patented/trademarked/copyrighted/whatevered.

Just in case someone doesn't know what a hypergrid is, here's a brief definition:

"The hypergrid is an extension to opensim that allows you to link your opensim to other opensims on the internet, and that supports seamless agent transfers among those opensims. It can be used both in standalone mode and in grid mode. "

Glad I could clear that up for you all.

t3knomanser: Code is not protected by patent. A process for doing something is protected by patents. Two people could easily have the same idea, write code to do it, and never talk to each other or know the other exists- but the guy who has a patent on the idea is at a market advantage.

Long story short: patents aren't the problem. The civil court system is structured in a way that someone with deep pockets can run someone without deep pockets out of business without ever getting to a trial. That's the problem.

Where do you draw the line between "patents aren't the problem" and "the civil court system" is the problem? The patents themselves, in all their detailed glory, may be specific enough, but that doesn't stop the patent holders from suing people over the broad strokes and not the details. Like, a lot. Sure, I guess you could approach it by fixing the court system, but it seems the problem is partly in the patent system itself.

Honest Bender: patented/trademarked/copyrighted/whatevered

patents, trademarks, copyright, and whatever are 4 different things with very different purposes. Of course code can be copyrighted. Code can't be trademarked... that doesn't really make sense.

t3knomanser: Other people can do it- they just have to do it in a way that doesn't run afoul of the patent.

Here's the thing: That is a subjective standard, not a bright line one. And the simple threat of litigation (however malicious and ill researched) has a proven chilling effect on innovation.

Somebody doesn't understand what a "patent troll" is.

Nice story.

Tell it to Reader's Digest.

TsukasaK: t3knomanser: Other people can do it- they just have to do it in a way that doesn't run afoul of the patent.

Here's the thing: That is a subjective standard, not a bright line one. And the simple threat of litigation (however malicious and ill researched) has a proven chilling effect on innovation.

Lawyers give you lawsuits, IT people give you Firefox, Linux and Android for free. How about we kill everyone involved with the patent process and replace them with the open source licensing guys?

Barakku: How about we kill everyone involved with the patent process and replace them with the open source licensing guys?

I agree completely. The problem is with any defense of patents. They're so damned vague that "well don't infringe the patent then asshole" is pretty much not possible, because somewhere, some patent troll will hold some patent related to some part of some widget you make, and they'll beat you about the head with it. Just *defending* against it can kill your company.

jonny_q: . Sure, I guess you could approach it by fixing the court system, but it seems the problem is partly in the patent system itself.

The patent system being broken would matter a lot less if it wasn't practically legalized extortion to get sued for patent infringement. Who cares if you're right or wrong, just the threat of lawsuit gets many to pay up. Even if you win, the legal fees are astronomical.

Fix this and a lot of problems minimize greatly, the patent system being one of the larger ones.

TsukasaK: And the simple threat of litigation (however malicious and ill researched) has a proven chilling effect on innovation.

Which is why defending oneself in court needs to be subsidized or reduced in some fashion. There are strong values to a patent system, and while I'm all in favor of patent reform, chucking patents is not a solution.

t3knomanser: There are strong values to a patent system

Such as? IMNSHO, the pendulum has swung far too in one direction and now needs to be swung back for a couple of decades.

In this example, would a patent troll company even use OpenSIM? Would they even care if they then couldn't use it?

i.e. I do not use OpenSIM for anything but I discover that OpenSIM is using one of my patented ideas. I sue OpenSIM. I then cannot use OpenSIM.

I can see this being a bit more of an issue for Apache (Oh bollocks, I now have to move my website to some other server) but not for a small outfit where the product has nothing to do with my daily business. This seems to leave power in the hands of the big players again (unless I am misunderstanding something somewhere)

Stephenson's SnowCrash on the US's economic future: There's only four things we do better than anyone else: Music (now routinely pirated), Movies (now routinely pirated), Microcode (increasingly open sourced so anyone can have it and almost no one can make a buck off it (someone can always provide better support than you do for less money)) and high-speed pizza delivery.

narkor: (now routinely pirated), Movies (now routinely pirated),

Despite what the MafiAA orgs would have you believe, the "routine" piracy equates to a tiny minority.. sales are still brisk (actually increasing!)

Though I would take great issue with saying the lowest-common-denominator slop we produce could be considered "the best"...