FARK.com: (6657314) Google: "Neither Apple, nor Microsoft have any idea how to make a good GUI"

(Some Guy)		Google: "Neither Apple, nor Microsoft have any idea how to make a good GUI" (electronista.com)		182
		More: Ironic, GUI, Microsoft, Google, iOS, ice cream sandwich, Honeycomb, quotient, kitsch

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182 Comments (+0 »)

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ThatGuyGreg

2011-10-19 10:58:43 AM

Design advice... from Google.

chanarchive.org

Theaetetus

2011-10-19 10:59:45 AM

Apple

Microsoft

Google

... So, Google is saying that they don't have any idea how to make a good GUI either?

downstairs

2011-10-19 11:44:05 AM

Theaetetus: [images.gizmag.com image 530x297]
Apple

[www.geeky-gadgets.com image 550x600]
Microsoft

[hitechdaily.com image 434x328]
Google

... So, Google is saying that they don't have any idea how to make a good GUI either?

Really? You're using the apps list section of Android to critique the entire GUI? The apps list section that I personally (and most other users) never use other than to pin a new app onto my homescreen?

I don't know much about WM7, but the live, working widgets in Android alone make it a better GUI than any other.

Babwa Wawa

2011-10-19 11:44:23 AM

Theaetetus: [images.gizmag.com image 530x297]
Apple

[www.geeky-gadgets.com image 550x600]
Microsoft

[hitechdaily.com image 434x328]
Google

... So, Google is saying that they don't have any idea how to make a good GUI either?

He makes good points, and admits that Honeycomb was released just so they could get a tablet OS and the upgrade was not about the UI.

However, it would seem that you should actually have a differentiated GUI before you start shiatting all over everybody else's.

Theaetetus

2011-10-19 11:47:07 AM

Babwa Wawa: Theaetetus: [images.gizmag.com image 530x297]
Apple

[www.geeky-gadgets.com image 550x600]
Microsoft

[hitechdaily.com image 434x328]
Google

... So, Google is saying that they don't have any idea how to make a good GUI either?

He makes good points, and admits that Honeycomb was released just so they could get a tablet OS and the upgrade was not about the UI.

However, it would seem that you should actually have a differentiated GUI before you start shiatting all over everybody else's.

That. I'd also note that Apple's iOS wasn't much of a huge change from Palm OS' GUI. The flipping between pages rather than clicking on a menu dragdown is probably the biggest change there.

Uncle Wiggly

2011-10-19 11:52:15 AM

We'll see. If you backtrack to the interview from which this is excerpted (click on the red underlined interview) he talks about this in more detail.

"Android is the new machine. It represents that new type of potential for computer / human interaction. Mobile is exciting because it breaks us out of this stodgy stuff that we've been looking at for two decades," he's worked up, "Two decades of windows, and cursors, and little folder icons!"

Our metaphor is windows, because that's what paper is, and we are are paper world. Microsoft talked about this for years with WinFS, but it was database-driven and DOA. The closest we've seen are Outlook Search Folders, the sluggish Windows Search 4.0 and the simple clear Libraries in Windows 7. Much of Microsoft's innovation--think the Active Desktop in Windows 98 and that little bar thing--was removed after its lawsuits. There's a reason both Windows Explorer and Internet Explorer share a name: the Windows desktop was designed to be a transparent portal (remember that word?)--a window into the Internet. With increased competition, Microsoft can revive much of the technology it could not bring to market before.

"I don't think anybody ever asked about the soul," he answers in a very matter-of-fact way, "This was my question, it was the question I challenged the team with. ... I think people had very clear and concrete visions about Android and its strategy, but from a holistic design perspective - not just the look and feel - what does it mean in your life? Why are we doing the things that we're trying to do. That was the question I wanted to ask."

From the beginning, Apple was about closing the distance between inspiration and production. This is not new. It's the point of all good design. Compare with Adobe's inept design for Acrobat and a general aesthetic that looks like bumper stickers slathered on the back of a Prius.

Matias says that the studies showed that users felt empowered by their devices, but often found Android phones overly complex. That they needed to invest more time in learning the phones, more time in becoming an expert. The phones also made users feel more aware of their limitations - they knew there was more they could do with the device, but couldn't figure out how to unlock that power.

'More aware of their limitations'? Fark you, you elitist weasel. You sound like some Linux geek who misses the entire point. The point is ease-of-use and marketshare. It's just a farking phone, and you need to get over yourself by embracing the fundamental truth of all technology: good technology is transparent. I think therefore I create. That is the goal of all technology.

"We wanted to focus our effort on making people feel more amazing, like they're super-powered. You put on your suit of techno-magical armor and now you can fly and shoot the bad guys. We want our products to make them more empowered."

Don't condescend to me. Jobs never did. Don't ply me with fanboi metaphors or you'll never figure this out. I'm not 12, and I don't have little Star Wars dolls stuffed under my bed.

The company has created a new typeface for Ice Cream Sandwich dubbed Roboto, designed in-house at Google, something the company has never done before.

Can I read it without my reading glasses, or do I have to blow it up to some absurd size? Why not use Clearview, which replaced Highway Gothic in roadsigns. It's designed to be read at speed. Instead I get this spindly font which I guarantee will look bad in full sunlight.

"Instead, I offer the web. Here there's beautiful examples of very customized, very different feeling websites." Matias flips through slides in his deck, a variety of websites, some news-focused, others which are services or shopping sites. "These look completely unlike each other, but people understand how to use them because the right things are standard conventions, and other things are flexible."

OK. So, you've invented a template, or as I like to think of it: My Yahoo.

But there are deeper changes. Matias tells me that starting with Android 4.0, users can uninstall any application they like, such as the native browser or email client - and that seems to go for carrier software as well. In phone settings you can also control your data usage in a very specific manner. Google is providing tools to set data limits systemwide or for specific apps, then give you warnings when you're about to cross a threshold.

But Verizon will turn it off, so get ready to root your phone.

"I thought 'okay you know what, I've tried to win so many times before,' and it's been shown that it doesn't matter how great a product you have and how revolutionary the product is... distribution and marketshare are the things that matter." Matias smiles, "Now I'm going the other way around."

Have you seen an iPhone? You're targeting Windows and ignoring Apple. I get that. It's the logical move. The phone OS is the way to take desktop OS marketshare. And you'll seize Apple marketshare in the process--except for a core of black turtlenecked Apple cultists--but don't pretend that while you were at Palm the folks at Apple were waiting to see what you did next.

This OS shouldn't be called Ice Cream Sandwich.

It should be called Apple Cobbler.

FuturePastNow

2011-10-19 12:54:58 PM

I guess it depends on how you define a "good" UI. I'm sure all three companies have lots of research to back up the way they do things (I know Microsoft does, as they're using it now to try to defend the awful Windows 8 Metro).

I'd defend "good" as being what the user knows how to use and expects. Apple users are used to Apple's UI choices. Microsoft users are used to Microsoft's (which is why they shouldn't go around making radical changes).

And, computer or phone, they're all so similar that a non-tard can switch from one to the other.

Phil Moskowitz

2011-10-19 12:55:01 PM

Microsoft has become an abject disgrace with most of their desktop app designs. Windows 7 is tolerable, but it will be their last. The shiat they produce by committee right now is criminal. I dare you to use live messenger and retain your sanity. A myriad of useless pseudo facebook features no one uses with absolutely no configurability.

How long can a company remain rudderless, producing disappointing trash?

madgonad

2011-10-19 12:55:09 PM

Uncle Wiggly: This OS shouldn't be called Ice Cream Sandwich.

It should be called Apple Cobbler.

TL;DR

poot_rootbeer

2011-10-19 12:55:56 PM

I completely understand the need for Android to establish a design identity distinct from the conventions of Apple's Cocoa Touch or Microsoft's Metro UI languages.

But you don't have to be condescending dick about it.

Superjew

2011-10-19 12:57:17 PM

Given that Apple's GUI is basically responsible for the lion's share of their sales over the last twenty-five years, I'm going to call this one "Sour Grapes".

lordargent

2011-10-19 12:58:13 PM

Theaetetus: So, Google is saying that they don't have any idea how to make a good GUI either?

I have a background in UI Design (but never got as crazy as those human factors guys, though I did work with them in their lab where they would sit people down and have them play with a UI and record their reactions, crazy stuff).

Anyway, the problem with UI design is that you have different classes of users, and a single UI is not going to be able to accommodate all of the users. Therefore, you have to make it flexible/customizable enough so that advanced users can move past the simplicity when they're ready.

/My tablet has a lot of stabilizability, but I don't know how much of that is stock android and how much is Cyanogen.

lordargent

2011-10-19 01:03:46 PM

Also, Microsoft's biggest problem is not UI design, it's system design. I sit in my office for 8-12 hours per day, writing code for a large chunk of that, and I can't understand how you design a system that does stuff like this.

lordargent.com

You can't open two documents with the same name, even if they're in different folders? WTF?

/was doing a comparison of a file on production and a file on test, ended up having to copy one of them to my desktop and rename it just so I could open both side by side and do a visual comparison.

Marine1

2011-10-19 01:16:56 PM

lordargent: Also, Microsoft's biggest problem is not UI design, it's system design. I sit in my office for 8-12 hours per day, writing code for a large chunk of that, and I can't understand how you design a system that does stuff like this.

[lordargent.com image 640x77]

You can't open two documents with the same name, even if they're in different folders? WTF?

/was doing a comparison of a file on production and a file on test, ended up having to copy one of them to my desktop and rename it just so I could open both side by side and do a visual comparison.

Windows 7. That is all. I just opened a Word file that I copied and pasted into another folder. Right click, open. Snapped the Word windows to both sides of the desktop.

Also, the Roboto type face that Google is pushing now is more or less Segoe UI (the typeface used in Metro, including WP7) with a few changes here and there. You can tell from ICS that Metro really threw a monkey wrench in Google's bunghole when it came to UI/UX design.

Google, you used to be the cool company. You didn't make comparisons to other companies because your products spoke for themselves. Don't become douchey like Apple. Please?

redpanda2

2011-10-19 01:19:52 PM

So nobody read the farking article then?

ReverendJasen

2011-10-19 01:26:25 PM

lordargent: You can't open two documents with the same name, even if they're in different folders? WTF?

/was doing a comparison of a file on production and a file on test, ended up having to copy one of them to my desktop and rename it just so I could open both side by side and do a visual comparison.

Holy shiat, that's stupid.
Seriously MS, what the fark?

redpanda2

2011-10-19 01:26:38 PM

The manager provided a handful of revelations about policy changes. Google was moving back towards actual freedom in software and was making it a point that every app could be uninstalled, even default apps and carrier apps. Google has previously let carriers block uninstalling apps, even when they weren't exclusives. Apple and Microsoft don't allow deleting default apps but have either banned carrier apps or let users freely remove them.

Thank God. That was one of my biggest complaints about Android. Now if Google could just jigger it so we can get OS updates from them directly for all phones, we'd be in business.

the_sidewinder

2011-10-19 01:30:58 PM

ReverendJasen: Holy shiat, that's stupid.
Seriously MS, what the fark?

In a way it makes sense, if you are to consider that complete morons use this software. I'm sure they'd get confused as to which file was which after a bit

MusicMakeMyHeadPound

2011-10-19 01:31:23 PM

Phil Moskowitz: Microsoft has become an abject disgrace with most of their desktop app designs. Windows 7 is tolerable, but it will be their last. The shiat they produce by committee right now is criminal. I dare you to use live messenger and retain your sanity. A myriad of useless pseudo facebook features no one uses with absolutely no configurability.

How long can a company remain rudderless, producing disappointing trash?

Unfortunately Windows Live Messenger is the communication tool of choice in my office.

Can't say I was surprised at its design because I'm not their customer; the advertising companies are.

I wonder if I'd get in trouble for installing Pidgin...

MusicMakeMyHeadPound

2011-10-19 01:35:43 PM

the_sidewinder: ReverendJasen: Holy shiat, that's stupid.
Seriously MS, what the fark?

In a way it makes sense, if you are to consider that complete morons use this software. I'm sure they'd get confused as to which file was which after a bit

More like it gets copied to the same temp location in XP behind the scenes and the NTFS rules about two files with the same name in the same directory apply.

I think Win7 joined the smarter OSes by hashing the file name with path criteria.

There are damned good reasons the nerds rage against Windows

the_sidewinder

2011-10-19 01:41:37 PM

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: There are damned good reasons the nerds rage against Windows

Because they are nerds and will always find something to rage about?

dustlesswalnut

2011-10-19 01:43:09 PM

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: I wonder if I'd get in trouble for installing Pidgin...

No installation needed:

Link (new window)

Dr Dreidel

2011-10-19 01:47:39 PM

Win7 Ultimate (desktop version) is awesomeness in binary. It's not the steak-covered blowjobs that Apple users dream SnowLeopard is, or the I'm-so-outside-the-box-I'm-building-a-new-box fun that Linux can be, but it's a damn sight better than XP.

Having just upgraded from a dumbphone + iPod touch to a Samsung Galaxy, Google has gotten so much right about UI that Apple got wrong, I could cry. There's things about it I don't like (selecting text is awful, and why can't I select text from an e-mail?! That's so stupid a limitation it makes me reconsider the beginning of this paragraph), sure, but in the first week, I'm overjoyed with my decision.

// didn't help that my iPod crashed + burned (no data recovery) the day after Jobs died
// also, Sprint's unlimited plan is the tits

poot_rootbeer

2011-10-19 01:48:04 PM

lordargent: You can't open two documents with the same name, even if they're in different folders? WTF?

Historical cruft.

There's a lot of Excel formulas in use out there that depend on the ability to uniquely identify open files by filename only. If two files with identical names were open at the same time, the behavior of those formulas would be undefined and unpredictable.

Thus, in order to support workflows that some idiot business analyst hacked together twenty years ago in Excel 3.0 for Windows, you are forced to do retarded workarounds like renaming files before and after working with them.

LesserEvil

2011-10-19 01:57:23 PM

Yes, because when I exit an application, I want to:

"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"

Particularly fun in a Browser or a file explorer.

::rolls eyes::

webOS >>>> Android
(Shame HP Pissed it away)

moothemagiccow

2011-10-19 01:57:50 PM

Textures and patterns are the trend now because we have the bandwidth to support them.

It's subjective, but if you look at the linked article, you'll find it's a bit sterile and lifeless, same as, say, reddit or digg, or even this site. Photos and photo simulations really liven shiat up.

dustlesswalnut

2011-10-19 01:59:52 PM

LesserEvil: Yes, because when I exit an application, I want to:

"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"

Particularly fun in a Browser or a file explorer.

::rolls eyes::

webOS >>>> Android
(Shame HP Pissed it away)

How about the home button? One-press exit.

meatofmystery

2011-10-19 02:01:01 PM

dustlesswalnut

2011-10-19 02:03:17 PM

moothemagiccow: Textures and patterns are the trend now because we have the bandwidth to support them.

It's subjective, but if you look at the linked article, you'll find it's a bit sterile and lifeless, same as, say, reddit or digg, or even this site. Photos and photo simulations really liven shiat up.

Photos yes, faux-textures, no. I hate the bubbly-ness of iOS and several of the Android skins like Sense, which is why I've got an AOSP Cyanogenmod ROM running on it. Bold full-color photos are great (Bing is actually pretty nice to look at), but I prefer clean and crisp to bubbly and textured any day.

All of that being said, he's a farking designer-- you expect him to not be a pompous ass-hat?

lilbjorn

2011-10-19 02:03:57 PM

Google: "Neither Apple, nor Microsoft have any idea how to ~~make a good GUI~~ be smug"

lordargent

2011-10-19 02:06:20 PM

Marine1: Windows 7. That is all. I just opened a Word file that I copied and pasted into another folder. Right click, open. Snapped the Word windows to both sides of the desktop.

I'm on Windows 7, but it has nothing to do with the OS, it's a limitation in office. I didn't test to see if word did the same thing, but Excel does.

I thought it had something to do with the temp files that they create, but if word doesn't do it, maybe not.

/was comparing on two separate SCREENS, not just two halves of the desktop :D

CitizenjaQ

2011-10-19 02:08:12 PM

Marine1

2011-10-19 02:09:51 PM

lordargent: Marine1: Windows 7. That is all. I just opened a Word file that I copied and pasted into another folder. Right click, open. Snapped the Word windows to both sides of the desktop.

I'm on Windows 7, but it has nothing to do with the OS, it's a limitation in office. I didn't test to see if word did the same thing, but Excel does.

I thought it had something to do with the temp files that they create, but if word doesn't do it, maybe not.

/was comparing on two separate SCREENS, not just two halves of the desktop :D

Hmmmm... what version of Office?

/doesn't do any Excel work, so no files to test.

Sasquach

2011-10-19 02:11:02 PM

redpanda2: The manager provided a handful of revelations about policy changes. Google was moving back towards actual freedom in software and was making it a point that every app could be uninstalled, even default apps and carrier apps. Google has previously let carriers block uninstalling apps, even when they weren't exclusives. Apple and Microsoft don't allow deleting default apps but have either banned carrier apps or let users freely remove them.

Thank God. That was one of my biggest complaints about Android. Now if Google could just jigger it so we can get OS updates from them directly for all phones, we'd be in business.

Unfortunately, each and every hardware configuration from each and every manufacturer must be debugged separately. Apple gets around this by having a very small number of hardware configurations (each iPhone), MS makes everyone who uses WP7 to use the same chips and prohibits skinning of the OS....

With Android....it's all wide open. A cool prospect, but also potentially very problematic....

Enomai

2011-10-19 02:12:47 PM

CitizenjaQ: dustlesswalnut: LesserEvil: Yes, because when I exit an application, I want to:

"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"

Particularly fun in a Browser or a file explorer.

::rolls eyes::

webOS >>>> Android
(Shame HP Pissed it away)

How about the home button? One-press exit.

That leaves the application running, you just don't see it.

Then hit the menu button and press exit.

LesserEvil

2011-10-19 02:13:05 PM

dustlesswalnut: LesserEvil: Yes, because when I exit an application, I want to:

"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"

Particularly fun in a Browser or a file explorer.

::rolls eyes::

webOS >>>> Android
(Shame HP Pissed it away)

How about the home button? One-press exit.

So no multitasking.

One of Google's "golden rules" for developers is that there be no "exit" function (though a few apps break that rule).

The Home button should (as in, should if Android was well designed, but doesn't) take you to the GUI to launch another app, leaving the original one running, and there should be a means to switch between those apps. Exiting the application should be handled completely different than it is in Android.

Yes, I know about the Home key, but it's dumb. The way Android does things is completely contrary to the way people want to use a computer.

MusicMakeMyHeadPound

2011-10-19 02:13:34 PM

Turns out poot_rootbeer was closest :

http://blogs.office.com/b/microsoft-excel/archive/2009/01/07/why-can-t -i-open-two-files-with-the-same-name.aspx

LesserEvil

2011-10-19 02:15:55 PM

Enomai: CitizenjaQ: dustlesswalnut: LesserEvil: Yes, because when I exit an application, I want to:

"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"

Particularly fun in a Browser or a file explorer.

::rolls eyes::

webOS >>>> Android
(Shame HP Pissed it away)

How about the home button? One-press exit.

That leaves the application running, you just don't see it.

Then hit the menu button and press exit.

If the application HAS an exit function, which is something Google EXPRESSLY states you should NOT have in your apps.

So short of tapping the icon (and digging it up from the menu to do that), how does one switch between active apps?

...assuming you aren't using a third-party app killer or switcher, that is.

As I stated, Android is a bad GUI.

Marine1

2011-10-19 02:16:21 PM

Sasquach: redpanda2: The manager provided a handful of revelations about policy changes. Google was moving back towards actual freedom in software and was making it a point that every app could be uninstalled, even default apps and carrier apps. Google has previously let carriers block uninstalling apps, even when they weren't exclusives. Apple and Microsoft don't allow deleting default apps but have either banned carrier apps or let users freely remove them.

Thank God. That was one of my biggest complaints about Android. Now if Google could just jigger it so we can get OS updates from them directly for all phones, we'd be in business.

Unfortunately, each and every hardware configuration from each and every manufacturer must be debugged separately. Apple gets around this by having a very small number of hardware configurations (each iPhone), MS makes everyone who uses WP7 to use the same chips and prohibits skinning of the OS....

With Android....it's all wide open. A cool prospect, but also potentially very problematic....

It's evolved past "potentially", especially on lower-end Android phones. Don't get me wrong, Android is good on higher-end handset, but the lower-end devices tend to have more problems.

bighairyguy

2011-10-19 02:18:57 PM

Right or wrong, can we all agree he's got a face you just want to punch?

CitizenjaQ

2011-10-19 02:23:00 PM

LesserEvil: If the application HAS an exit function, which is something Google EXPRESSLY states you should NOT have in your apps.

I'm sure there's some obvious reason why they would do that but I can't for the life of me think of one. Help?

clovis69

2011-10-19 02:23:50 PM

Uncle Wiggly: -but don't pretend that while you were at Palm the folks at Apple were waiting to see what you did next.

Or at Apple with the Newton Message Pad and eMates before you bailed and when to Palm.

MusicMakeMyHeadPound

2011-10-19 02:24:39 PM

LesserEvil: Enomai: CitizenjaQ: dustlesswalnut: LesserEvil: Yes, because when I exit an application, I want to:

"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"

Particularly fun in a Browser or a file explorer.

::rolls eyes::

webOS >>>> Android
(Shame HP Pissed it away)

How about the home button? One-press exit.

That leaves the application running, you just don't see it.

Then hit the menu button and press exit.

If the application HAS an exit function, which is something Google EXPRESSLY states you should NOT have in your apps.

So short of tapping the icon (and digging it up from the menu to do that), how does one switch between active apps?

...assuming you aren't using a third-party app killer or switcher, that is.

As I stated, Android is a bad GUI.

Its a "bad GUI" because Windows OS has you trained to do its memory management for it.

Android OS is designed so that you, the user, don't have to worry about memory management. Hit the home button to exit. Its okay, your stuff will still be there when you load the app again.

It's actually quite clever.

And get used to it. Guess what Windows 8 features...

bhcompy

2011-10-19 02:25:32 PM

I happen to like WP7's interface. The Live tile functionality is probably the best feature of any smartphone OS. But I don't like how closed the platform is.

MrEricSir

2011-10-19 02:28:53 PM

Speaking of weird UI choices, has anyone here tried Gnome 3?

poot_rootbeer

2011-10-19 02:30:46 PM

Sasquach: Unfortunately, each and every hardware configuration from each and every manufacturer must be debugged separately.

Google expects the Android handset OEMs to take care of this work. They're getting a free OS and the ability to leverage some of the most popular brands in the mobile market, doing some software QA work is the least they could do in return.

Problem is that most OEMs don't bother. Because who would upgrade to a new phone every year if it was guaranteed that last year's model will still run the latest OS flawlessly?

redpanda2

2011-10-19 02:35:07 PM

Enomai

2011-10-19 02:35:08 PM

LesserEvil: Enomai: CitizenjaQ: dustlesswalnut: LesserEvil: Yes, because when I exit an application, I want to:

"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"
"BACK"

Particularly fun in a Browser or a file explorer.

::rolls eyes::

webOS >>>> Android
(Shame HP Pissed it away)

How about the home button? One-press exit.

That leaves the application running, you just don't see it.

Then hit the menu button and press exit.

If the application HAS an exit function, which is something Google EXPRESSLY states you should NOT have in your apps.

So short of tapping the icon (and digging it up from the menu to do that), how does one switch between active apps?

...assuming you aren't using a third-party app killer or switcher, that is.

As I stated, Android is a bad GUI.

I think I lost the plot on this. I don't see any real difference between a native app switcher which would take one press to bring up and another to choose a running app and pressing a home button and launching it from menu or homescreen (which is easier for me as the app switcher would only include running apps). The other point about whether or not an app really exits isn't really a GUI issue. /:-|

MusicMakeMyHeadPound

2011-10-19 02:43:15 PM

MrEricSir: Speaking of weird UI choices, has anyone here tried Gnome 3?

Not yet. I've finally gotten around to trying Unity (I was a Gnome 2 holdout) and I don't hate it.

The girlfriend's out of town on Thursday so I'm planning to load it then to try it out.

digistil

2011-10-19 02:51:28 PM

lordargent: Anyway, the problem with UI design is that you have different classes of users, and a single UI is not going to be able to accommodate all of the users. Therefore, you have to make it flexible/customizable enough so that advanced users can move past the simplicity when they're ready.

Advanced users use the command line.

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