I once had a call come in to the 911 dispatch from a patient at the hospital because she could'nt get a nurse to answer the call button. Acutually had to call the hospital to have them send a nurse to her room.

I tried to get in before the "ZOMGSOCIALIZED MEDICINE" crowd but was very late.

fickle floridian: Canadian healthcare for the win!

Fail.

I know a woman here in South Carolina who works for a local hospital and broke her leg in the hospital parking lot. Yup, they called an ambulance for her. Isn't litigiousness wonderful?

I don't know what the case is in Canada, but don't they have any Good Samaritan Laws that allow people to help other people in need without the fear of getting their pants sued off? Cripes. Just...wow.

Drink your koolaid and follow me !!: I once had a call come in to the 911 dispatch from a patient at the hospital because she could'nt get a nurse to answer the call button. Acutually had to call the hospital to have them send a nurse to her room.

That's nothing my Dad once had to call his congressman from his hospital bed to see a doctor. He had hip surgery at a VA hospital. The doctor who did the surgery did fine. Apparently he wasn't the one who did rounds. The dude who was supposed to do rounds for the next few days apparently just decided to go on vacation. He was a month from retiring or something and just took a few days off. They never bother to call anyone else in. He was there for 4 days immobile in a bed before a doctor showed up to even see him. No therapy or anything since that has to be ordered by a doctor. The nurses just ignored him when he kept asking when he could see a doctor and get on with his recovery. Apparently there was an entire wing that was pretty much doctorless.

MANDELBAUM
MANDELBAUM
MANDELBAUM

Sounds like someone was following the old policies and procedures.

Gyrfalcon: So what if they weren't covered by insurance?
Apparently you missed some Rep debates (pops, it's not what Paul said, it's the crowd, THEY'RE the voters for this logic...)

whatever happened to well the best place to get injured is the hospital because its full of doctors! haha wait... apparently the best place is to already be in an ambulance...

Gyrfalcon: I'd like to see that go into court: Would you rather they let you lie around for an hour till the medics got there? Didn't think so! Case dismissed!

Hahahahaha, keep dreaming.

"I was floored," said Mike Wallace.

So was she, sounds like.

ObamaKare...here we come!!!!!

dinserdinser: I don't know what the case is in Canada, but don't they have any Good Samaritan Laws that allow people to help other people in need without the fear of getting their pants sued off? Cripes. Just...wow.

If you exercise reasonable care and only do things that you're qualified to do, common law generally protects you; yes.

fickle floridian: Of course it happens in the US. But Canadian health care is supposed to be better than US healthcare.

This is by no means typical of Canadian health care, and both the hospital administration and the health minister made it clear this isn't policy and shouldn't have happened.

My sister works in the ICU at a children's hospital in Quebec and a woman who was there for a meeting collapsed. They provided emergency care even though the staff are qualified in pediatrics, not adult medicine, until she could be transferred (I think she may have died anyway, though.) It didn't even occur to them not to help.

I'm glad nobody called her an ambulance. Why insult her when she's down?

inkling79: "I was floored," said Mike Wallace.

So was she, sounds like.

the_chief: I'm glad nobody called her an ambulance. Why insult her when she's down?

and again.

Warlordtrooper: Laws forcing somebody to do something would violate the 13th Amendment. There should never be a law that punishes you for not doing anything.

I don't think a law requiring on-duty medical workers to help injured people at a hospital is the same thing as slavery. If someone is injured on hospital property, whether it's in a hallway, a doorway or a parking lot, it should be a crime for an employee to walk by that person without doing something or getting help. It's farking negligence, at the very least.

dinserdinser: I don't know what the case is in Canada, but don't they have any Good Samaritan Laws that allow people to help other people in need without the fear of getting their pants sued off? Cripes. Just...wow.

It differs provincially, but yeah. In Quebec you're actually legally required to help when someone's in distress if there's anything you can do without putting yourself at risk.

actually what happens most often for elderly people is they break their hip, which is what causes the fall. fall and break your hip is most likely chronologically backwards.

So what is the difference between this and someone driving up to the ER? If you have problems getting out of the car and need medical attention, you're supposed to call an ambulance for that last 10 - 15 ft of assistance? What if someone wanders out of the hospital who shouldn't be? This whole thing makes no sense.

If you kill all the lawyers, who will be around to correct your false assertion that laws forcing someone to do something are unconstitutional?

It's true that there are no general "duty to rescue" laws in most common law jurisdictions, including the US (though some US states do impose relatively minimal requirements such as a duty to report a crime in progress if you can do so without risk to yourself). But there are specific circumstances where people are forced to act - for example, parents must provide necessaries of life to their children. In some cases, there are legal requirements that on-duty rescue or emergency personnel act, even where there is a risk to themselves.

Also, this happened in Canada. Keep your 13th amendment to yourself - we have our own constitution. We have good samaritan laws protecting volunteer rescuers from liability, but they don't cover on-duty medical personnel.

/not a lawyer, not legal advice, blah blah.

dinserdinser: I don't know what the case is in Canada, but don't they have any Good Samaritan Laws that allow people to help other people in need without the fear of getting their pants sued off? Cripes. Just...wow.

Don't know about up there, but we sure as hell do here. Also, there are entire sections of tort law devoted to suing when proper care is not given, and this poor woman would have a HELLUVA case.


@thread: Oh, also, the healthcare crisis really is due to insurance companies - there are definitely people out there that game the system, you just hear about it more with hot-button issues like healthcare.

/Taking health law this semester, thanks.

I broke my pinky finger (stuck out 90 degrees) playing basketball about 15 years ago. I went to the local hospital. They made me sit in a wheelchair, took x-rays, had a doctor come over to tell me the obvious that it was broken.
Ok, now what...as my broken finger was pointing to the clock that said about 90 minutes had passed.
"Sorry, we can't fix that here...take these x-rays and drive to 123 somestreet in the next town and ask for Doctor X". WTF!!!. fine.. I can drive with one hand. Go to the doctor's place of work...a converted house. Good thing his son and himself just finished their smoke break. He looks at my finger and I explain to him the doc at the hospital said it was broken..here's the x-rays. He grabs my finger and *CRACK*..
"There, I fixed your dislocated finger". WTF!!! It wasn't dislocated you idiot! He put a splint on it and told me to come back tomorrow at the hospital where he worked. Needless to say, I didn't.
I went to another orthopedic surgeon near my house. "I haven't seen a split like that in 20 years..who did that?".
Anyway, we went to the hospital and he put two pins in my finger. Said it was a miracle the finger was set.
Just kills me about the hospital saying "We can't fix that here"...and it was a real hospital.

Bathia_Mapes: dukwbutter: ObamaKare...here we come!!!!!

It's not ideal in the U.S. because the socialsts passed a law that it's illegal to turn people away from the ER, regardless of their inability to pay and refusal to provide any identification. So, as a result, the hospitals started going broke, and many of them were forced to close.

So, yeah, you're right, we're not much better off than Canada, but last time I checked, people leave Canada in droves to come to the U.S. for surgeries they can't get in Canada.

http://www.redstate.com/racebannon/2010/02/23/canadian-premier-comes- t o-us-for-surgery-note-this-loudly-thurs/

Yeap that's the great Canadian health care system. Couple of weeks ago me and my brother were mugged while out for a walk. One of the guys hit me hard on the side of my head. We called 911 and the police and ambulance shows up. Right away the paramedics were treating it like it wasn't a big deal. They asked me if I want to go home or if I'd rather walk to the hospital. I told her that I was hit on the head and I feel like I have a head injury. She kept brushing it off saying "it's not so bad I think it's more of a facial injury". Eventually they took me to ER where I had to wait to see a doctor for two hours while in agonizing pain. They kept asking me to fill out forms even though one of my eyes had swollen completely shut. Finally the doctor saw me and they decided to do an xray. He looked at the xray for maybe 10 seconds and told me everything is fine. He said to take some tyelenol and put ice on it. I spent the next two days at home as what I can describe as the worst pain ever. The hospital eventually called me and asked me to come back immediately. Apparently another doctor had looked at the xray and was concerned. They rushed me to the CT scanner, which revealed that I had a skull fracture, a fractured eye bone, contusions and swelling in my brain. Eventually ended up spending 9 days in the hospital after that.

dukwbutter: Bathia_Mapes: dukwbutter: ObamaKare...here we come!!!!!

It's not ideal in the U.S. because the socialsts passed a law that it's illegal to turn people away from the ER, regardless of their inability to pay and refusal to provide any identification. So, as a result, the hospitals started going broke, and many of them were forced to close.

So, yeah, you're right, we're not much better off than Canada, but last time I checked, people leave Canada in droves to come to the U.S. for surgeries they can't get in Canada.

http://www.redstate.com/racebannon/2010/02/23/canadian-premier-comes- t o-us-for-surgery-note-this-loudly-thurs/

Uhh, last I checked, Reagan wasn't considered a socialist. Apparently they don't talk about EMTALA over at RedState. Who'd a thunk it?

FormulaJuan: actually what happens most often for elderly people is they break their hip, which is what causes the fall. fall and break your hip is most likely chronologically backwards.

it's not the pelvis, it's the femur

ragekage: dukwbutter: Bathia_Mapes: dukwbutter: ObamaKare...here we come!!!!!

It's not ideal in the U.S. because the socialsts passed a law that it's illegal to turn people away from the ER, regardless of their inability to pay and refusal to provide any identification. So, as a result, the hospitals started going broke, and many of them were forced to close.

So, yeah, you're right, we're not much better off than Canada, but last time I checked, people leave Canada in droves to come to the U.S. for surgeries they can't get in Canada.

http://www.redstate.com/racebannon/2010/02/23/canadian-premier-comes- t o-us-for-surgery-note-this-loudly-thurs/

Uhh, last I checked, Reagan wasn't considered a socialist. Apparently they don't talk about EMTALA over at RedState. Who'd a thunk it?

Oh, yeah, and the law doesn't even require hospitals to even do that. If they really want, they can deny anyone they please.

But tell me more about emergency medicine. Please. I've only worked in a Level One Trauma ED or Pediatric ICU before. You, on the other hand, have the raving opinions of Erick Erickson. Thus, your information is probably far more accurate.

Wouldn't you say?

fickle floridian: Of course it happens in the US. But Canadian health care is supposed to be better than US healthcare.

A couple more posts from you and you're going to start attracting short buses. I know you're from florida, but suck it up.

Russ1642:
fickle floridian: Of course it happens in the US. But Canadian health care is supposed to be better than US healthcare.

It is far, far from perfect. Nobody's going to claim that our medicine is any different, but our access to it is. In the end an average Canadian gets better health care than an average American, a rich Canadian gets terrible treatment in comparison to a rich American unless they use that money to access private health care in the US, and a poor Canadian gets far better treatment than a poor American.

The rich always have options. The "poor" (ie almost everyone, who can't afford to pay for medical procedures with cash) get a huge boost. No lose.

spiro: Yeap that's the great Canadian health care system. Couple of weeks ago me and my brother were mugged while out for a walk. One of the guys hit me hard on the side of my head. We called 911 and the police and ambulance shows up. Right away the paramedics were treating it like it wasn't a big deal. They asked me if I want to go home or if I'd rather walk to the hospital. I told her that I was hit on the head and I feel like I have a head injury. She kept brushing it off saying "it's not so bad I think it's more of a facial injury". Eventually they took me to ER where I had to wait to see a doctor for two hours while in agonizing pain. They kept asking me to fill out forms even though one of my eyes had swollen completely shut. Finally the doctor saw me and they decided to do an xray. He looked at the xray for maybe 10 seconds and told me everything is fine. He said to take some tyelenol and put ice on it. I spent the next two days at home as what I can describe as the worst pain ever. The hospital eventually called me and asked me to come back immediately. Apparently another doctor had looked at the xray and was concerned. They rushed me to the CT scanner, which revealed that I had a skull fracture, a fractured eye bone, contusions and swelling in my brain. Eventually ended up spending 9 days in the hospital after that.

Because your one example proves the entire system is broken.

spiro: Yeap that's the great Canadian health care system. Couple of weeks ago me and my brother were mugged while out for a walk. One of the guys hit me hard on the side of my head. We called 911 and the police and ambulance shows up. Right away the paramedics were treating it like it wasn't a big deal. They asked me if I want to go home or if I'd rather walk to the hospital. I told her that I was hit on the head and I feel like I have a head injury. She kept brushing it off saying "it's not so bad I think it's more of a facial injury". Eventually they took me to ER where I had to wait to see a doctor for two hours while in agonizing pain. They kept asking me to fill out forms even though one of my eyes had swollen completely shut. Finally the doctor saw me and they decided to do an xray. He looked at the xray for maybe 10 seconds and told me everything is fine. He said to take some tyelenol and put ice on it. I spent the next two days at home as what I can describe as the worst pain ever. The hospital eventually called me and asked me to come back immediately. Apparently another doctor had looked at the xray and was concerned. They rushed me to the CT scanner, which revealed that I had a skull fracture, a fractured eye bone, contusions and swelling in my brain. Eventually ended up spending 9 days in the hospital after that.

I haven't had much luck with Canadian doctors either, thankfully nothing that serious has happened to me yet in the 5 years I've been living in Ontario. But the 3 times I had to go to the hospital (accompanying my dear accident prone husband) or the times I've been to clinics, the doctors usually barely look at you and do not ask more than a couple of questions. If you try to tell them what's going on, they've been generally dismissive. I mean, yes, most times your patient's problems will be trivial and you will feel like you're wasting your time checking all the boxes and making sure that the person is OK when you could be moving on to the next patient, but as a doctor you sort of still have to check! No wonder something as serious as your injury can get overlooked... Good thing someone caught the mistake later!

I still hope that my experience here hasn't been terribly good due to bad luck and not representative of the whole health system.