Surprisingly few Europeans are complaining about having to sing Deutschland Uber Alles at soccer games.

ToxicMunkee: Because over here it's not about trying to do anything, it's about which side wins.

That, my friend, is the most lucid answer available.

I read that first as "white lawmakers," which would also be mostly accurate.

A measly two trillion?!?! Two trillion is like Obama's and Barney Frank's bar bill. Right before they whisper sweet nothings in each other's ears.

GAT_00: However, Moody's cut Spain's rating by two levels the same day.

STOP MAKING THE FARKING PROBLEM WORSE ASSHOLES.

So they shouldn't provide an honest assessment of the economic outlook? Are you still parroting the provably false assertion that the Greek collapse was caused by a ratings downgrade?

Well, it does make sense. If what you're worried about is sovereign default, what's the risk on borrowing €2T? Why not make it 3, or 6? You'll either solve the problem, or . . . not pay back €2T more than you didn't not start with.

(side note: the stability fund is not a pot of money that's being gathered together, it's the broke countries borrowing from normal sources, but on the guarantees of the not-broke)

...because if you're on the Titanic, and your options are "do something that might work" or "do nothing and drown," you choose the former.

You're the jerk... jerk: GAT_00: However, Moody's cut Spain's rating by two levels the same day.

STOP MAKING THE FARKING PROBLEM WORSE ASSHOLES.

So they shouldn't provide an honest assessment of the economic outlook? Are you still parroting the provably false assertion that the Greek collapse was caused by a ratings downgrade?

He just likes artificially inflated ratings. I think he's a bankster.

Sweet, another €2 trillion, free for the banks to sit on and either collect interest or gamble away. Giving banks free money worked so well last time, let's give them a nearly exhaustible supply for this go around!

FlashHarry: the GOP would never go for it, but what the US really needs is a $1.5T second stimulus. no tax cuts, just pure government spending on infrastructure and green tech.

Actually, I'd say raise taxes and pay off debt. Re-establish the US as the world's top creditor.

FlashHarry: the GOP would never go for it, but what the US really needs is a $1.5T second stimulus. no tax cuts, just pure government spending on infrastructure and green tech.

This isn't a $2,000,000,000 stimulus package, this is throwing $2,000,000,000 down the massive debt hole we have. Contrary to popular belief, no one is getting stimulated in Europe tonight.

CTaylor80: Well, it does make sense. If what you're worried about is sovereign default, what's the risk on borrowing €2T? Why not make it 3, or 6? You'll either solve the problem, or . . . not pay back €2T more than you didn't not start with.

(side note: the stability fund is not a pot of money that's being gathered together, it's the broke countries borrowing from normal sources, but on the guarantees of the not-broke)

Uh, the US does have a rescue fund too. Two of them, in fact: They're called the Federal Reserve, and China. I know it sounds crazy, but there is a limit to how much they can lend and buy before there are, you know, repercussions.

CTaylor80: Why not make it 3, or 6?

6 Trillion Euros? Great idea. Man they would all be rich! Nobody would have to worry about gas money or mortage payments ever again!

Grand_Moff_Joseph: FlashHarry: the GOP would never go for it, but what the US really needs is a $1.5T second stimulus. no tax cuts, just pure government spending on infrastructure and green tech.

That will go a long way for sure, but the other show that has to be dropped is the housing situation. Chatter has been increasing around ideas to force banks to take a loss on the homes and cram down the principal, forcing the owners into refis with payment stipulations, which according to some, was the only good way out of this mess from day one.

another is rampant speculation and bubble making on things like oil and food. these guys whenever they feel insecure about investing in anything else just drive the price of something necessary for national security and life in general up.

they should not be able to hold a world hostage for fuel and food. it wasn't OPEC driving the price of oil up. It was Goldman and the other banksters. Had OPEC tried it we would have went to war. Since it was Wall st we just pretend it's okay.

You're the jerk... jerk: GAT_00: However, Moody's cut Spain's rating by two levels the same day.

STOP MAKING THE FARKING PROBLEM WORSE ASSHOLES.

So they shouldn't provide an honest assessment of the economic outlook? Are you still parroting the provably false assertion that the Greek collapse was caused by a ratings downgrade?

The debt can't be paid. Lies are the only thing preventing the whole shiathouse from going up in flames.

Is this a bank bailout or a stimulus?

Wanna watch this play out.

The one think I have learned on Fark is that economies do not work like your household budget. It better to borrow lots and lots of beautiful money. wheeee.

That sound you hear is France's credit rating falling.

prepare for the great re-balancing, biatches

We had our massive stimulus already, Bush signed it before Obama took over, and gave the money to Goldman Sachs.

Europe has been around longer then the US, so their poticians have had more time to mature.

Yes because the first stimulus did the United States so much good - let's do another.

/Yikes

DavidVincent: The one think I have learned on Fark is that economies do not work like your household budget. It better to borrow lots and lots of beautiful money. wheeee.

Well, they don't.

Especially when the real asset in that world wide (macro) economy is the actual debt.

I'm serious. Fiat currency means debt is the currency of exchange. It's been that way since the original Bretton Woods treaty was killed in 71 by Nixon.

The Bretton Woods wiki (new window)

On August 15, 1971, the United States unilaterally terminated convertibility of the dollar to gold. As a result, "[t]he Bretton Woods system officially ended and the dollar became fully 'fiat currency,' backed by nothing but the promise of the federal government."[1] This action, referred to as the Nixon shock, created the situation in which the United States dollar became the sole backing of currencies and a reserve currency for the member states. (Of Bretton Woods....the world trades in US debt)

Brick-House: Europe has been around longer then the US, so their poticians have had more time to mature.

Poticians? Is like alchemists?

/I kid, I kid!

We just have to print a few more of these...

Overfiend: Yes because the first stimulus did the United States so much good - let's do another.

/Yikes

Son of Stimulus or SOS

Rescue fund? Sounds similar to the crash insurance fund for the US banks, where they have to pay in to insure themselves in case they end up becoming insolvent and having to be shut down. Funny enough, Republicans turned it around and called it a 'bailout bill' as if the taxpayer would be footing the cost.

What could possibly go wrong?

Besides, you know, the complete collapse of the European economy under toxic sovereign debt.

Greece is hopelessly broke and corrupt. No matter how much money they're given, they'll never pay it back.

Greece is the inevitable endpoint of the European welfare state.

You cannot spend your way to prosperity. You cannot borrow your way to prosperity. The longer you try, the worse the inevitable reckoning.

Ah-Mer-Ih-Kuh!



Farg yeah!

/Bailouts for some
//Inappropriately placed miniature American flags for others!

Hmmmmm. . . . . let's see:

Patient has cancer;

Put band-aid over cancer so you can't see it;

Change band-aid as needed.

That sure solves the problem.

Makh: However, this isn't exactly a stimulus per se. Also, I am amazed Germany agreed.

I live and work in Germany, and although I am a medium wage earner, (400-800 euros per month is classed as a midi-job here) I'm pretty sure that I won't see any of the taxes I pay come back to me when I need them.

On the other hand, automatic health insurance is worth way more than my pension that will probably be gone in a couple of decades, so who cares?

Brick-House: Europe has been around longer then the US, so their poticians have had more time to mature.

poppycock.

Isn't this kind of bailout pretty much exactly what OWS is protesting?

what "few billion" are we hemming and hawing over?

we throw half a billion to Solyndra without even blinking an eye.

olddinosaur: Hmmmmm. . . . . let's see:

Patient has cancer;

Put band-aid over cancer so you can't see it;

Change band-aid as needed.

That sure solves the problem.

The only thing that would solve the problem is completely forgiving that debt. Which, is stimulus by any other definition.

What WOULD you do? Prop up Spain, Portugal and ireland who all have heavy investment in Greece's debt? Or just write off that debt, consider Greece bankrupt and kick them to the Eurozone curb? It's still a big stimulus for Spain Ireland and Portugal...

Choices, choices....

We have the same damn problem here, 2 options, banks forgive the massive outstanding debt or keep pumping money into the economy...

Austerity doesn't work.

X-boxershorts: I'm serious. Fiat currency means debt is the currency of exchange. It's been that way since the original Bretton Woods treaty was killed in 71 by Nixon.

The Bretton Woods wiki (new window)

On August 15, 1971, the United States unilaterally terminated convertibility of the dollar to gold. As a result, "[t]he Bretton Woods system officially ended and the dollar became fully 'fiat currency,' backed by nothing but the promise of the federal government."[1] This action, referred to as the Nixon shock, created the situation in which the United States dollar became the sole backing of currencies and a reserve currency for the member states. (Of Bretton Woods....the world trades in US debt)

Yuck. I remember when I first found out about that. WTF, Dick? Of course, I also feel that Nixons detente with China is now responsible for the debt they hold over us. Mind you, that's only about 8 percent, but damn.

I also have a theory about the curent debt crisis: it was caused by 80s director John Hughes. Follow me, if you dare:

At the end of "Pretty In Pink", Molly Ringwald went to prom with the douchebag Blaine, althgouh poor Duckie had tried oh-so-very-hard to be her main squeeze. However, when the love of his life leaves him, he is presented by the director with a substitute blonde (corporate, normal blonde, even!), so the message is that if you allow the rich guy to take your girl, you'll still be presented with a girl, or steak knives, or a plaque, or something.

So now Blaine realizes that he can be an ass AND get whatever he wants! This influences a generation of human bulldozers to realize that they are never wrong, that the film "Wall Street" was in fact sophomore year, so let's get screwing people over!!!

Duckie should have shot the fu(king richie in the face. Or at least beat him up "Back TO the Future" style. But no, we were told to acquiesce to the human dildo, cuz' look! Here's a device for you to bang!

fireclown: Isn't this kind of bailout pretty much exactly what OWS is protesting?

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain...

LawrencePerson: You cannot spend your way to prosperity. You cannot borrow your way to prosperity.

saying this is saying "I don't know the basics of Keynesian economics, I don't know that stimulus spending is to prop up the economy temporarily during a recession"

Brick-House: Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain...

But he looks like a european banker! Or maybe even a plutocrat!

fireclown: Brick-House: Europe has been around longer then the US, so their poticians have had more time to mature.

poppycock.

Poppycock is right, as I recall, Europe had difficulties getting along a little bit later than the founding of the United States. I believe Europe had a few disagreements during the 1940s, you might have heard about them.

epoc_tnac: Poppycock is right, as I recall, Europe had difficulties getting along a little bit later than the founding of the United States. I believe Europe had a few disagreements during the 1940s, you might have heard about them.

I think so. I do know things get nasty quick if you happen to mention that Earl Gray tea tastes like water steeped in worn out athletic socks.

/ducks