Ayup. Y'all figured Obama had this one and you could go back to sleep, and he did until you let the Tea Party get their guys in to rough the place up.

Don't let that happen again. Mid-term elections may not be all media sexy and stuff, but they're at least as important as Presidential elections.

no farking shiat.

A-f*cking-men.

make me some tea: Ayup. Y'all figured Obama had this one and you could go back to sleep, and he did until you let the Tea Party get their guys in to rough the place up.

Don't let that happen again. Mid-term elections may not be all media sexy and stuff, but they're at least as important as Presidential elections.

FlashHarry: no farking shiat.

Shostie: A-f*cking-men.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Who is running that will actually change any of this?

GAT_00: Who is running that will actually change any of this?

Do your homework and cast your vote in your local primary/caucus as the case may be.

bunner: Voting, not OWS, will change America

I strongly disagree.

Show me a candidate that won't give us more of the same pro-big business, pro foreign government, fark the average citizen, bullshiat that has people standing around on Wall Street?

The system is rigged, no matter which party you choose it's setup to give you the same result. Look at Obama, aside from health care, which is nearly dead, what has he done that Bush didn't do? What will Perry give you? The same that Bush gave you. What will Romney give you? The same policies Obama gave you. What will Ron Paul give you? The big business protectionism and at the same time tell the average citizen he/she is on their own.

We're getting the same meal no matter which restaurant we vote for.

Right now Political Action Committees (PACs) are set up to accept 100's of millions if not billions of dollars from America corporations, foreign corporations and foreign governments anonymously. These organizations are funneling vast amounts of money into the pockets our our elected officials who then OWE the corporations and governments. These corporations and governments are buying our government lock stock and barrel and Americans are standing around calling each other Nazi's, talking about the newest iPhone and the transgender contestant on a stupid talent show. .

Until we have viable political alternatives, VOTING WILL DO NOTHING.

make me some tea: Do your homework and cast your vote in your local primary/caucus as the case may be.

GAT_00 is right. Local primaries do nothing. Candidates don't make it until they are vetted by the political parties in control. In other words if they don't prove they can tow the party line they're destroyed.

You can elect the perfect outsider who has the interest of every many woman and child in mind and he/she will never achieve anything because everyone else in politics will be working against them.

But there's so many CHOICES. I can go R, or I can go D, or I can go R, or I can go D, or I can go R...

NFA: Look at Obama, aside from health care, which is nearly dead, what has he done that Bush didn't do

he killed Osama.

/it must be sad that the democrats only success in the area of foreign policy is killing a guy at his house instead of capturing him.

What we need is an Occupation Party.

NFA: make me some tea: Do your homework and cast your vote in your local primary/caucus as the case may be.

GAT_00 is right. Local primaries do nothing. Candidates don't make it until they are vetted by the political parties in control. In other words if they don't prove they can tow the party line they're destroyed.

You can elect the perfect outsider who has the interest of every many woman and child in mind and he/she will never achieve anything because everyone else in politics will be working against them.

Oh bull. We have proof positive that an active and involved electorate can change things right in front of our eyes: the Tea Party.

Sure, they are uninformed and ignorant, and proudly so. But they are a loud, active, in your face minority that has derailed the GOP and scared the old guard into either getting in line or getting out of office.

The sad state of American politics at the moment is due entirely to them. The reason Mitch McConnell keeps blathering on about the only agenda being ending Obama's presidency after a single term? Tea Party.

Boehner is unable to control dissidents in his party and bring a vote to the floor on the debt ceiling? Tea Party.

Not a single piece of reform legislation can get past a filibuster with a near dem supermajority in the senate? You guessed it.

For good or evil, vote. It works, biatches.

EnviroDude: /it must be sad that the democrats only success in the area of foreign policy is killing a guy at his house instead of capturing him.

Even sadder for the republicans that in 8 years, their last leader couldn't even do that.

GAT_00: Who is running that will actually change any of this?

Green party. Libertarians. there's a couple local democrats around the country who really want to reform our system. Most of the sane Republicans got kicked out a while back but you can still find a very few honorable ones in you do some digging around the edges of the GOP. And there's always the independent candidates to consider.

you have options, but the system we use to elect people to office is rigged to prevent the voters from hitting the Republicans OR Democrats with any massive backlash. you could try changing that too while you're at it, but that would probably lead to a civil war.

gilgigamesh: NFA: make me some tea: Do your homework and cast your vote in your local primary/caucus as the case may be.

GAT_00 is right. Local primaries do nothing. Candidates don't make it until they are vetted by the political parties in control. In other words if they don't prove they can tow the party line they're destroyed.

You can elect the perfect outsider who has the interest of every many woman and child in mind and he/she will never achieve anything because everyone else in politics will be working against them.

Oh bull. We have proof positive that an active and involved electorate can change things right in front of our eyes: the Tea Party.

Sure, they are uninformed and ignorant, and proudly so. But they are a loud, active, in your face minority that has derailed the GOP and scared the old guard into either getting in line or getting out of office.

The sad state of American politics at the moment is due entirely to them. The reason Mitch McConnell keeps blathering on about the only agenda being ending Obama's presidency after a single term? Tea Party.

Boehner is unable to control dissidents in his party and bring a vote to the floor on the debt ceiling? Tea Party.

Not a single piece of reform legislation can get past a filibuster with a near dem supermajority in the senate? You guessed it.

For good or evil, vote. It works, biatches.

That sounds like a lot of work. I think I'd rather just hang out in a park somewhere for a couple months.

Weaver95: GAT_00: Who is running that will actually change any of this?

Green party. Libertarians. there's a couple local democrats around the country who really want to reform our system. Most of the sane Republicans got kicked out a while back but you can still find a very few honorable ones in you do some digging around the edges of the GOP. And there's always the independent candidates to consider.

you have options, but the system we use to elect people to office is rigged to prevent the voters from hitting the Republicans OR Democrats with any massive backlash. you could try changing that too while you're at it, but that would probably lead to a civil war.

The trick is going to be building up validity in a third party on the local level, raising it to the senate level, taking it up incrementally, a bit at a time. We're not going to see a libertarian president till we see a whole bunch of libertarian senators.

unlikely: The trick is going to be building up validity in a third party on the local level, raising it to the senate level, taking it up incrementally, a bit at a time. We're not going to see a libertarian president till we see a whole bunch of libertarian senators.

yeah, but I don't want to see just the libertarians in the mix. I want to see the green party and the pirate party and the beer party and anyone else who wants to form a party get their shot at putting a candidate into office. One of our big problems is that right now we've only got TWO parties. that's it. just two options. That's fine for binary calculations but not so great for a country that's supposedly a democracy.

it pisses me off that i've got a greater selection of coffee than I do when I go into that voting booth.

NFA: bunner: Voting, not OWS, will change America

I strongly disagree.

Show me a candidate that won't give us more of the same pro-big business, pro foreign government, fark the average citizen, bullshiat that has people standing around on Wall Street?

The system is rigged, no matter which party you choose it's setup to give you the same result. Look at Obama, aside from health care, which is nearly dead, what has he done that Bush didn't do? What will Perry give you? The same that Bush gave you. What will Romney give you? The same policies Obama gave you. What will Ron Paul give you? The big business protectionism and at the same time tell the average citizen he/she is on their own.

We're getting the same meal no matter which restaurant we vote for.

Right now Political Action Committees (PACs) are set up to accept 100's of millions if not billions of dollars from America corporations, foreign corporations and foreign governments anonymously. These organizations are funneling vast amounts of money into the pockets our our elected officials who then OWE the corporations and governments. These corporations and governments are buying our government lock stock and barrel and Americans are standing around calling each other Nazi's, talking about the newest iPhone and the transgender contestant on a stupid talent show. .

Until we have viable political alternatives, VOTING WILL DO NOTHING.

This.

Weaver95: unlikely: The trick is going to be building up validity in a third party on the local level, raising it to the senate level, taking it up incrementally, a bit at a time. We're not going to see a libertarian president till we see a whole bunch of libertarian senators.

yeah, but I don't want to see just the libertarians in the mix. I want to see the green party and the pirate party and the beer party and anyone else who wants to form a party get their shot at putting a candidate into office. One of our big problems is that right now we've only got TWO parties. that's it. just two options. That's fine for binary calculations but not so great for a country that's supposedly a democracy.

it pisses me off that i've got a greater selection of coffee than I do when I go into that voting booth.

Link (new window)

NFA: The system is rigged, no matter which party you choose it's setup to give you the same result.

So - you say that it's the institution?

Weaver95: Libertarians.

I said fix the system, not make the problem worse.

GAT_00: Weaver95: Libertarians.

I said fix the system, not make the problem worse.

so balance the libertarians with someone else - that's the point of a parlementary system. coaltions of parties rather than elite groups of insiders calling all the shots.

incidentially, i'm fascinated by this concept but I don't think we'll ever be permitted to even discuss it in any sort of practical terms.

Voting isn't going to change sh*t until money gets the f*ck out of politics.

violentsalvation: Voting isn't going to change sh*t until money gets the f*ck out of politics.

And the only way we can get money out of politics is to spend enough money in politics to get rid of all the money in politics.

ever get the feeling we're kinda f*cked?

Weaver95: violentsalvation: Voting isn't going to change sh*t until money gets the f*ck out of politics.

And the only way we can get money out of politics is to spend enough money in politics to get rid of all the money in politics.

ever get the feeling we're kinda f*cked?

It is an infinite loop.

Weaver95: so balance the libertarians with someone else - that's the point of a parlementary system. coaltions of parties rather than elite groups of insiders calling all the shots.

Yes, and we're really going to fix things with one side of the spectrum wanting to make thing worse than they already are. Fark no. That's like saying "You know what would fix this fire? Gasoline. That way the whole thing finishes burning to the ground quicker."

EnviroDude: NFA: Look at Obama, aside from health care, which is nearly dead, what has he done that Bush didn't do

he killed Osama.

/it must be sad that the democrats only success in the area of foreign policy is killing a guy at his house instead of capturing him.

It must be sad that the greatest right wing foreign policy success of the Bush era was managing to resist the urge to not start a 3rd unfunded war

Peter von Nostrand: EnviroDude: NFA: Look at Obama, aside from health care, which is nearly dead, what has he done that Bush didn't do

he killed Osama.

/it must be sad that the democrats only success in the area of foreign policy is killing a guy at his house instead of capturing him.

It must be sad that the greatest right wing foreign policy success of the Bush era was managing to resist the urge to not start a 3rd unfunded war

meh

GAT_00: Weaver95: so balance the libertarians with someone else - that's the point of a parlementary system. coaltions of parties rather than elite groups of insiders calling all the shots.

Yes, and we're really going to fix things with one side of the spectrum wanting to make thing worse than they already are. Fark no. That's like saying "You know what would fix this fire? Gasoline. That way the whole thing finishes burning to the ground quicker."

don't confuse the libertarians with the GOP. they're entirely seperate philosophies. that aside, you can't tell me that what we currently (and laughingly) call our democracy couldn't use a shake up. adding 4 or 5 parties to the mix would thin out the Republican/Democrat sillyness and make difficult and expensive for corporations and special interest to simply purchase the legislation they want. And that's the goal, right?

violentsalvation: Voting isn't going to change sh*t until money gets the f*ck out of politics.

How do we get money out of politics? It's not going to just go away because of people protesting. It's got to be done legislatively and judicially.

violentsalvation: Weaver95: violentsalvation: Voting isn't going to change sh*t until money gets the f*ck out of politics.

And the only way we can get money out of politics is to spend enough money in politics to get rid of all the money in politics.

ever get the feeling we're kinda f*cked?

It is an infinite loop.

It's going to take a shiatstorm that none of us can possibly imagine that forces the majority to rethink how Washington does business. To me, that's about as difficult to imagine as is contemplating the size of the universe.

Dnrtfa but why are we assuming that people who are attending OWS don't vote?

Weaver95: GAT_00: Weaver95: so balance the libertarians with someone else - that's the point of a parlementary system. coaltions of parties rather than elite groups of insiders calling all the shots.

Yes, and we're really going to fix things with one side of the spectrum wanting to make thing worse than they already are. Fark no. That's like saying "You know what would fix this fire? Gasoline. That way the whole thing finishes burning to the ground quicker."

don't confuse the libertarians with the GOP.

I'm not. The only way this shiat would get any worse is with even less regulations and moar free market.

coco ebert: Dnrtfa but why are we assuming that people who are attending OWS don't vote?

They obviously didn't in 2012.

make me some tea: coco ebert: Dnrtfa but why are we assuming that people who are attending OWS don't vote?

They obviously didn't in 2012.

Dammit, 2010. I meant 2010.

GAT_00: Weaver95: GAT_00: Weaver95: so balance the libertarians with someone else - that's the point of a parlementary system. coaltions of parties rather than elite groups of insiders calling all the shots.

Yes, and we're really going to fix things with one side of the spectrum wanting to make thing worse than they already are. Fark no. That's like saying "You know what would fix this fire? Gasoline. That way the whole thing finishes burning to the ground quicker."

don't confuse the libertarians with the GOP.

I'm not. The only way this shiat would get any worse is with even less regulations and moar free market.

Agreed about splitting Dems and Repubs into many different parties. It's beyond due.

GAT_00: I'm not. The only way this shiat would get any worse is with even less regulations and moar free market.

you really need to get rid of your irrational fear of the libertarian party. they're your friends in this fight.

make me some tea: GAT_00: Weaver95: GAT_00: Weaver95: so balance the libertarians with someone else - that's the point of a parlementary system. coaltions of parties rather than elite groups of insiders calling all the shots.

Yes, and we're really going to fix things with one side of the spectrum wanting to make thing worse than they already are. Fark no. That's like saying "You know what would fix this fire? Gasoline. That way the whole thing finishes burning to the ground quicker."

don't confuse the libertarians with the GOP.

I'm not. The only way this shiat would get any worse is with even less regulations and moar free market.

Agreed about splitting Dems and Repubs into many different parties. It's beyond due.

I could do with an actual liberal party. You can split the Dems just in two, left and center. The GOP needs at least three parties, the 10 moderates left get their own, the Talibangicals get their own, and then the MOAR TAX CUT party can be formed.

Weaver95: GAT_00: I'm not. The only way this shiat would get any worse is with even less regulations and moar free market.

you really need to get rid of your irrational fear of the libertarian party. they're your friends in this fight.

Listen, we had free markets once. We got the Pullman strike, we got Haymarket Square, we got the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire. All because we didn't have regulations on companies and we didn't have worker protections. Libertarians are NOT the friends of anyone but corporations.

Aarontology: [i258.photobucket.com image 350x350]

They'll never get the Evangelical vote, what with Kirk's philandering and Spock's homosexuality.