Subby, the new plan is to become a 12 team conference by adding Boise, SMU, Houston, Air Force, Navy, and UCF.

/WVU fan
//Wish I was joking
///Looking for a second team to support when Big Least AQ status is yanked

$10 million won't be enough, not when you can earn more than that by simply being a member of an auto-qualifying conference, which the Big East won't be in a few years.

The fact that actual colleges have any real financial connection to these minor league football teams is a farce.

Scrap the whole system and start paying the players. Keep the team names if you like.

FTA; "TCU was slated to join the Big East in 2012, but the Horned Frogs reneged on that commitment and accepted an invitation to the Big 12. TCU is free to go immediately because it was never an official member, but the Big East is expecting to collect a $5 million exit fee."

Ha good luck with that Big East. I'm sure the check is in the mail

SigmaAlgebra: Subby, the new plan is to become a 12 team conference by adding Boise, SMU, Houston, Air Force, Navy, and UCF.

/WVU fan
//Wish I was joking
///Looking for a second team to support when Big Least AQ status is yanked

I'm a WVU fan, too, and for the life of me, I don't understand why this plan is being ridiculed. The exit fee is contingent on a service academy and Boise joining, which would, in turn, convince the other schools on the docket to join. So then you have an "east" division that will probably be: WVU, Cincy, Lousiville, UCONN, USF and Rutgers, and a "west" of UCF, Boise, Navy, Air Force, Houston and SMU.

Is this an elite power conference? Hell no. But it's much stronger than the current Big East--they lose NOTHING in football with the defection of Syracuse of Pitt, and they'll still be the best basketball conference in the country--and by widening their reach that far west, it opens the door for any expansion in the future to make sense.

And seriously, what conference takes the AQ from them? That monstrosity of the MWV-CUSA?

Wolf Cola: The fact that actual colleges have any real financial connection to these minor league football teams is a farce.

Scrap the whole system and start paying the players. Keep the team names if you like.

Student-Athletes!!!1!

Lol. How do you collect a $10m exit fee if there's no one left in the Big East?

There is no way this conference should keep its BCS bid even if they find replacements. It's crappy enough as it is. Adding Navy, Air Force and some C-USA castoffs isn't going to help from a competitive standpoint. Who the hell wants to see Virginia Tech v. Navy in the Orange Bowl? Another reason the BCS is bad for college football. Schools were much better pre-BCS at getting compelling match-ups in the major bowl games. Honestly, I've never understood why bowl organizers need to exist. If the top two teams want to play each other at the end of the year, they know how to schedule opponents. Why not rent an NFL stadium and have schools sell tickets on their own instead of working through a bowl organization? Such an insane system.

CalvinMorallis: And seriously, what conference takes the AQ from them? That monstrosity of the MWV-CUSA?

ACC, Big 10, SEC, PAC-10 abandon the BCS and form their own system with only 4 AQs

ThisIsntMe: BFD. You get a PATRON or BOOSTER to pony up a 10Mil donation, name some walkway or cupboard after the DONOR and move along.

Sheez, There is a reason the SEC laughs at the Big East.

10 million is approaching building naming money at a lot of schools, even the big ones.

/Still would stop somebody from jumping ship though.

Sorry about my rant about bowls. Didn't mean to threadjack.

But really, the Big East is shiat and shouldn't exist in football.

SigmaAlgebra: Subby, the new plan is to become a 12 team conference by adding Boise, SMU, Houston, Air Force, Navy, and UCF.

Yep. They're so twisted by phantom television numbers that they're bypassing their best choice, because the only thing Eastern NC doesn't offer is a major metro TV market.

xtalman: ThisIsntMe: BFD. You get a PATRON or BOOSTER to pony up a 10Mil donation, name some walkway or cupboard after the DONOR and move along.

Sheez, There is a reason the SEC laughs at the Big East.

10 million is approaching building naming money at a lot of schools, even the big ones.

/Still would stop somebody from jumping ship though.

Fark, I meant WOULDN'T.

Lost Thought 00: CalvinMorallis: And seriously, what conference takes the AQ from them? That monstrosity of the MWV-CUSA?

ACC, Big 10, SEC, PAC-10 abandon the BCS and form their own system with only 4 AQs

Well, yeah, that's the probable ultimate outcome, but that's a couple years down the road, at the earliest, and even when / if it does happen, the Big East teams of consequence--Houston, WVU, Boise, Navy, Air Force and USF, at the very least--will probably quite happily go into whichever of the 4 powers take them.

The ironic thing is I think the conference improves with the addition of the military schools, Boise, Houston and UCF.

redmid17: FTA; "TCU was slated to join the Big East in 2012, but the Horned Frogs reneged on that commitment and accepted an invitation to the Big 12. TCU is free to go immediately because it was never an official member, but the Big East is expecting to collect a $5 million exit fee."

Ha good luck with that Big East. I'm sure the check is in the mail

The Big East sounds like a scorned desperate teenager around prom:

Big East: "I'll buy the tickets and everything if you go to prom with me."
TCU: "Ummmm...Let me think about it."

*** Two Weeks go by ***

Big East: "Hey, TCU, you ready for prom. I rented a limo, and have already paid for pictures"
TCU: "Oh, sorry, someone else asked me, and I've kind of had a crush on them for years"
Big East: (alone in a basement) "farking biatch, she's gonna pay. No one crosses...*** Mom interrupts: "Hey honey, why don't you come upstairs and watch Wheel of Fortune with your Father and I."

velvet_fog: Lol. How do you collect a $10m exit fee if there's no one left in the Big East?

There is no way this conference should keep its BCS bid even if they find replacements. It's crappy enough as it is. Adding Navy, Air Force and some C-USA castoffs isn't going to help from a competitive standpoint. Who the hell wants to see Virginia Tech v. Navy in the Orange Bowl? Another reason the BCS is bad for college football. Schools were much better pre-BCS at getting compelling match-ups in the major bowl games. Honestly, I've never understood why bowl organizers need to exist. If the top two teams want to play each other at the end of the year, they know how to schedule opponents. Why not rent an NFL stadium and have schools sell tickets on their own instead of working through a bowl organization? Such an insane system.

The Service Academy schools, for some reason I don't understand, have big national followings--ditto for Boise State. And Houston, SMU and CFU aren't castoffs. Houston's been on a major upswing the last 5 years, and the added recruting potential of being in the B.E. will help them tremendously; SMU and CFU are in the same boat, if a few years behind.

But disregarding that, let's assume Pitt and Syracuse didn't decide to leave, and none of this was happening--the Big East would still, according to the numbers, not lose their AQ in 2013. Losing Pitt and Syracuse does NOTHING negative to the conference, and EVERY team they are (probably) adding are stronger programs than what's being lost.

I no longer care. Let the Big Least have Boise and Air Force. Ultimately, the Mountain West is going to get raided of the couple of good remaining football schools, leaving the rest of us to merge back into the WAC and live through thrilling matchups like Wyoming vs. San Jose State and Colorado State vs. Utah State every year with the right to go to the WhoGivesAfark Bowl.

Just pisses me off. The MWC could have been in a great position, but Texas went and screwed that up by not imploding the Big XII last year when they should have.

/go CSU

Yeah... Houston, UCF, and SMU > Syracuse, Pitt, and TCU
Nothing to see here BCS overlords. The Big East is just reloading.

hawtsautz: Yeah... Houston, UCF, and SMU > Syracuse, Pitt, and TCU
Nothing to see here BCS overlords. The Big East is just reloading.

You should compare the Boise part to the TCU part and it suddenly becomes more even.

tnpir: I no longer care. Let the Big Least have Boise and Air Force. Ultimately, the Mountain West is going to get raided of the couple of good remaining football schools, leaving the rest of us to merge back into the WAC and live through thrilling matchups like Wyoming vs. San Jose State and Colorado State vs. Utah State every year with the right to go to the WhoGivesAfark Bowl.

Just pisses me off. The MWC could have been in a great position, but Texas went and screwed that up by not imploding the Big XII last year when they should have.

/go CSU

Yeah...BYU, Boise, TCU and Utah could of taken the AQ in the MWC.

I'm not so sure Boise St will come just yet. We'll have to see.
Also, with Missouri supposedly a done deal to the SEC there is talk that the Big 12 will take WVU and Louisville.
If the ACC gets bored of waiting around on ND and decides to take UConn and Rutgers, the Big East will be dead in football.

boise state will not make the jump to the big east precisely because da da duh DUH!!! the big east won't have an AQ status for long. that's the only incentive for boise to jump ship and if they do they could very likely find themselves into a situation where they spend more monies on travelling and all that jazz and still don't get a AQ bid. pac-16 will happen eventually, and that will be where boise lands.

also...smu? really? because a team was good 30 years ago people still talk about them? >.

Krymson Tyde: Pratty: The ironic thing is I think the conference improves with the addition of the military schools, Boise, Houston and UCF.

That, in a nutshell, is why they shouldn't be an AQ.

Unless they want to contract an AQ, there isn't a conference that is better than the Big East for the last AQ.

CalvinMorallis: So then you have an "east" division that will probably be: WVU, Cincy, Lousiville, UCONN, USF and Rutgers, and a "west" of UCF, Boise, Navy, Air Force, Houston and SMU.

If you clearly don't care about rivalries, at least try to make geography and traveling a priority.

Why would Boise State want to join the BE?Pratty: Unless they want to contract an AQ, there isn't a conference that is better than the Big East for the last AQ.

The BE already lost their tie-in,why wouldn't the BCS want to contract their AQ? Getting the BE monkey off their backs would be nothing but a financial boon for the BCS.

Almost any possible At-Large Team in any given year would be better for a BCS bowl than any BE team not named WVU.

Krymson Tyde: Pratty: Krymson Tyde: Pratty: The ironic thing is I think the conference improves with the addition of the military schools, Boise, Houston and UCF.

That, in a nutshell, is why they shouldn't be an AQ.

Unless they want to contract an AQ, there isn't a conference that is better than the Big East for the last AQ.

True, but why couldn't the remaining BCS spot go to an at large?

Wouldn't a non-AQ Big East still count for that?

CalvinMorallis: velvet_fog: Lol. How do you collect a $10m exit fee if there's no one left in the Big East?

There is no way this conference should keep its BCS bid even if they find replacements. It's crappy enough as it is. Adding Navy, Air Force and some C-USA castoffs isn't going to help from a competitive standpoint. Who the hell wants to see Virginia Tech v. Navy in the Orange Bowl? Another reason the BCS is bad for college football. Schools were much better pre-BCS at getting compelling match-ups in the major bowl games. Honestly, I've never understood why bowl organizers need to exist. If the top two teams want to play each other at the end of the year, they know how to schedule opponents. Why not rent an NFL stadium and have schools sell tickets on their own instead of working through a bowl organization? Such an insane system.

The Service Academy schools, for some reason I don't understand, have big national followings--ditto for Boise State. And Houston, SMU and CFU aren't castoffs. Houston's been on a major upswing the last 5 years, and the added recruting potential of being in the B.E. will help them tremendously; SMU and CFU are in the same boat, if a few years behind.

But disregarding that, let's assume Pitt and Syracuse didn't decide to leave, and none of this was happening--the Big East would still, according to the numbers, not lose their AQ in 2013. Losing Pitt and Syracuse does NOTHING negative to the conference, and EVERY team they are (probably) adding are stronger programs than what's being lost.

Jim Brown, Tony Dorsett, Dan Marino, Curtis Martin,Larry Fitzgerald,Dwight Freeney and Darelle Revis all say 'have fun in irrelevancy'.

Pratty: hawtsautz: Yeah... Houston, UCF, and SMU > Syracuse, Pitt, and TCU
Nothing to see here BCS overlords. The Big East is just reloading.

You should compare the Boise part to the TCU part and it suddenly becomes more even.

tnpir: I no longer care. Let the Big Least have Boise and Air Force. Ultimately, the Mountain West is going to get raided of the couple of good remaining football schools, leaving the rest of us to merge back into the WAC and live through thrilling matchups like Wyoming vs. San Jose State and Colorado State vs. Utah State every year with the right to go to the WhoGivesAfark Bowl.

Just pisses me off. The MWC could have been in a great position, but Texas went and screwed that up by not imploding the Big XII last year when they should have.

/go CSU

Yeah...BYU, Boise, TCU and Utah could of taken the AQ in the MWC.

EXACTLY right. Assume BYU and Utah and TCU stayed, with Boise State joining this year. If the Big XII blows up, the Kansas schools have nowhere to go, so the MWC could make a play for them, making a 14 team conference that would HAVE to have AQ status, especially if you then bring on Nevada and Hawaii.

But NOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Texas had to go and blue ball everyone by teasing the Pac-16 last year, only to slap your hand away as you go for the third button on their shirt...

...wait, where was I going with this?

bubbaprog: Wolf Cola: The fact that actual colleges have any real financial connection to these minor league football teams is a farce.

Scrap the whole system and start paying the players. Keep the team names if you like.

You realize that only about ten teams actually profit, right? Even major conference teams use academic funding to operate the football teams.

At least in VA, the state colleges (UVA, VT, JMU, W&M, etc,) are forbidden from mixing academic and athletic funding streams. UVA clearly isn't a big dog on the national scene, but they somehow manage:

"The Virginia Athletics Foundation (VAF) is the fund-raising organization of Virginia Athletics and provides financial support for all athletic scholarships, academic affairs, summer school, facilities, and operational needs of the athletics department. The University of Virginia Athletics Department does not receive any money from the state and relies on ticket sales and private support each year to provide student-athletes the opportunity to achieve academic and athletic excellence."

Link (new window)

WVU and Louisville bouncing to the B12 would likely force ND to get off the fence, in which case UConn would be the likely 16th in the ACC.

Why wouldn't ND go Big 10 instead?

The Big East is already dead in football, nobody has turned the life support off, though.

Mizzou to the SEC will force the Big12 to go after Cincy, or L'ville or WVU, or all three. These folks are scrambling, and it aint over yet.

drkats: CalvinMorallis: velvet_fog: Lol. How do you collect a $10m exit fee if there's no one left in the Big East?

There is no way this conference should keep its BCS bid even if they find replacements. It's crappy enough as it is. Adding Navy, Air Force and some C-USA castoffs isn't going to help from a competitive standpoint. Who the hell wants to see Virginia Tech v. Navy in the Orange Bowl? Another reason the BCS is bad for college football. Schools were much better pre-BCS at getting compelling match-ups in the major bowl games. Honestly, I've never understood why bowl organizers need to exist. If the top two teams want to play each other at the end of the year, they know how to schedule opponents. Why not rent an NFL stadium and have schools sell tickets on their own instead of working through a bowl organization? Such an insane system.

The Service Academy schools, for some reason I don't understand, have big national followings--ditto for Boise State. And Houston, SMU and CFU aren't castoffs. Houston's been on a major upswing the last 5 years, and the added recruting potential of being in the B.E. will help them tremendously; SMU and CFU are in the same boat, if a few years behind.

But disregarding that, let's assume Pitt and Syracuse didn't decide to leave, and none of this was happening--the Big East would still, according to the numbers, not lose their AQ in 2013. Losing Pitt and Syracuse does NOTHING negative to the conference, and EVERY team they are (probably) adding are stronger programs than what's being lost.

Jim Brown, Tony Dorsett, Dan Marino, Curtis Martin,Larry Fitzgerald,Dwight Freeney and Darelle Revis all say 'have fun in irrelevancy'.

Only three of those played college football in the last 15 years. You don't see teams in a rush to get Princeton, the team with more national championships than any one else in college football, do you?

Lost Thought 00: CalvinMorallis: And seriously, what conference takes the AQ from them? That monstrosity of the MWV-CUSA?

ACC, Big 10, SEC, PAC-10 abandon the BCS and form their own system with only 4 AQs

Only three things stand in the way: the Big 10, the Pac 12, and the Rose Bowl

llortcM_yllort: Only three of those played college football in the last 15 years. You don't see teams in a rush to get Princeton, the team with more national championships than any one else in college football, do you?

5 of them have played in the last 15 years. Princeton does not currently play in a BCS conference and they don't even play in division one.

drkats: llortcM_yllort: Only three of those played college football in the last 15 years. You don't see teams in a rush to get Princeton, the team with more national championships than any one else in college football, do you?

5 of them have played in the last 15 years. Princeton does not currently play in a BCS conference and they don't even play in division one.

I'm referring to playing in COLLEGE, as this is a discussion of college football. My point about Princeton is that what you do recently is a lot more important than history, and recently, Pitt and Syracuse (especially Syracuse) have not had a lot of success.

Sorry, you said COLLEGE football. I misread that as football, which meant to me the NFL. You're right.

llortcM_yllort: drkats: llortcM_yllort: Only three of those played college football in the last 15 years. You don't see teams in a rush to get Princeton, the team with more national championships than any one else in college football, do you?

5 of them have played in the last 15 years. Princeton does not currently play in a BCS conference and they don't even play in division one.

I'm referring to playing in COLLEGE, as this is a discussion of college football. My point about Princeton is that what you do recently is a lot more important than history, and recently, Pitt and Syracuse (especially Syracuse) have not had a lot of success.

Success doesn't have anything to do with it (ask Boise and TCU). As we've learned in the past few years, it's about media market and a large/active alumni base. History has a lot to do with all of this. Notre Dame is a perfect example.

bubbaprog: They use very clever accounting. William & Mary's athletic revenues were identical to their expenses, something only possible when revenues include academic fund bolstering.

It's against the law in Virginia to use public funds for athletics.

If you have evidence that William and Mary is breaking the law, you should turn it over to authorities. Considering all of the financial documentation for these public universities are available to anyone, it shouldn't be hard for you to point out where they are using "clever accounting" to embezzle money from the academic institution to the athletic fund. I'll wait.

Oh, and also, you're wrong.

The Tribe Club ran a profit for the 2010-2011 year.

Revenue: ~$3.4m
Expenses: ~$2.6m

Has anyone written an authoritative piece, say in The Atlantic or The New Yorker, explaining WHY all these weeks of conference-shifting, and potential outcomes, should be any concern of anyone outside the athletic offices of the schools involved - and only then just so they can update their email / phone list??
Because I, as only the most casual of a sports fan, don't get it. I really need to start from the foundation on this issue.

OK, so:

A) Guys in college like to play sports.
B) Guys outside college especially like to watch guys in college play football.
C) When they like it A LOT, they're more amenable to giving money to the college in question, especially if they ever attended / graduated from there.
D People who own TV networks have discovered they can make money airing these games on their networks.
D.2) That's because people who manufacture shaving cream, beer and trucks are willing to give networks money in exchange for placing messages at the ceaseless number of breaks that are built into the aforementioned games.

And now, where does the conference crap come in?

drkats: llortcM_yllort: drkats: llortcM_yllort: Only three of those played college football in the last 15 years. You don't see teams in a rush to get Princeton, the team with more national championships than any one else in college football, do you?

5 of them have played in the last 15 years. Princeton does not currently play in a BCS conference and they don't even play in division one.

I'm referring to playing in COLLEGE, as this is a discussion of college football. My point about Princeton is that what you do recently is a lot more important than history, and recently, Pitt and Syracuse (especially Syracuse) have not had a lot of success.

Success doesn't have anything to do with it (ask Boise and TCU). As we've learned in the past few years, it's about media market and a large/active alumni base. History has a lot to do with all of this. Notre Dame is a perfect example.

TCU is now part of the Big 12 despite being an afterthought in its market and having an alumni base that could probably fit into several college stadiums. Also, the original post you quoted discussed AQ status which is currently decided only on football success according to BCS rules. Since you posted famous football alumni, you too were focusing on football success, and to disregard completely clashes with your earlier post.

My prediction:

Big 12 adds WVU, Louisville and Boise State, SMU and Houston, and Cincy. Kicks out Iowa St to the MAC or somesuch.

Big 10 poaches Kansas, K-State, Notre Dame and Rice. For the lulz. (Maybe Houston?)

ACC adds Rutgers and UConn.

SEC adds probably Missou - but I don't know why.

Mountain West poaches what's left of the decent schools that are in the WAC.

MAC and C-USA continue doing what they're doing. Sun Belt gives up and goes back to FBS, where every school in it belongs to begin with (and I went to a Sun Belt school, thanks).

Big East folds as a football conference.

The ACC, Big Twen, Big Sixteen, Pac-12 (maybe Pac-16 if they can add four teams worth adding from the wreckage of the WAC) and SEC form their own successor to the BCS. The Mountain West complains a lot but isn't included. FBS turns into a two-tiered system, where you're either in one of the big conferences, or you're completely ignored.

They invent their own playoff system. Billions of dollars are made. It's integrated with the current bowl system as such:

If you had an 8 team playoff, that means seven bowl games.. make the first round the Cotton, Liberty, Gator and Sugar bowls. Make the next round be the Fiesta and Orange, and then have the championship game be the Rose Bowl. Rotate the bowl games around so that every seven years, one of those bowls hosts the NC game. Wash hands. So the bowls might move their date from their historically set-up date. Could be worse - could be cancelled completely, which is the other direction this might go.

/too much sense

I'm just going to point out that under the current rules if the Big East manages to get Boise St. to join then they won't lose their AQ status. Boise State's rankings over the last few years would count towards the Big East's status.

The Homer Tax: bubbaprog: They use very clever accounting. William & Mary's athletic revenues were identical to their expenses, something only possible when revenues include academic fund bolstering.

It's against the law in Virginia to use public funds for athletics.

If you have evidence that William and Mary is breaking the law, you should turn it over to authorities. Considering all of the financial documentation for these public universities are available to anyone, it shouldn't be hard for you to point out where they are using "clever accounting" to embezzle money from the academic institution to the athletic fund. I'll wait.

William and Mary doesn't have to use clever accounting. Like many schools in VA, there is a fee on the semester's tuition bill for the Athletic Department. It was something close to 900 dollars last year. While they don't break the law because no funding for general education can be used for sports, they do get money from the student body as a whole for athletics. They are just much more upfront about fleecing the student body to have a football team be able to operate.