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(Some Guy)   Fark goes to Occupy Wall Street. This is what we saw   (blog.joethepeacock.com) divider line 1100
    More: Interesting, waste collector, Guy Fawkes  
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35690 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Oct 2011 at 9:00 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-10-18 10:17:22 AM

topcon: Why are these guys so mad about the redistribution of wealth happening right at OWS itself?

Link (new window)


18.

With a '$5,500' Mac.

You can preach love and peace all you want, but sticky fingers don't care about your ideals and will prey on the sheeple.
 
2011-10-18 10:18:02 AM

tacks:
Of the 99% there is a portion that truly does envy people who make more and "want their stuff" - looking at the pictures I would guess that it's the younger folks in that crowd, and anyone north of 125th not in attendance. They just want that 1% to make less, even though they'll still be 1%, just closer to 2% than before.


So your saying the 99% are willing to be farked over by wall st, they just want a reach around?
 
2011-10-18 10:18:10 AM

WinoRhino: A Boston radio station interviewed a woman at occupy Boston. She doesn't have a job because her "family has plenty of money." She doesn't sleep at the protest site despite having a tent set up there. Instead she goes back to Wellesley (affluent suburb) each night to her parents' house. Ladies and gentlemen, your protesters!

No, I don't really think that comprises the entire group, but it does underscore the fact that majority of them do not know why they are there except that they have been meaning to, like, GET INVOLVED man... so this is as good as anything. You know, like, down with this sort of thing! Where's my slice of the American dream pie? Those bankers have all the blueberries and apples and shiat that go in my pie, and like, I want them for MY pie, man. And some whipped topping while you're at it, because getting things and money is the American dream. And by dream, I mean it should happen while I am laying down and resting!


How does one woman embody "the majority" of the protesters. Let's play the logical fallacy game. I'll start first with..."Confirmation Bias"
 
2011-10-18 10:18:17 AM

watson.t.hamster: Here's a tip: if you want government to stop doing something either mobilize a lot of votes against them or a lot of money for the opposition.


You don't think this is going to mobilize a lot of voters?
 
2011-10-18 10:18:40 AM
To subby: Thank you very much for doing this.

To the trolls, as well as those who are apparently serious about wanting to see skulls cracked, I offer you the following argument:[EOM]
 
2011-10-18 10:18:45 AM

liam76: archichris: Thats why it grates on us so much that we are expected to supply the taxes to solve the problem. The definition of "rich" has been dumbed down t the point that we are now in that classification despite the fact that we are the "middle" class. I fully expect that I will be among those singled out as the next problem after the left gets done with wall street. There simply isnt enough money around to keep the poor happy, but the left will keep trying until we are all poor.

Who is defining you as rich and how much did you pull down last year?


Have you examined your tax rates for what they are compared to 10, 20, 50 yrs ago?


Yes, it's called simplification of the Internal Revenue Code. There are now less brackets than there were in the 1950s and the 1960s.

For historical tax rates, both nominal and adjusted for inflation (new window)

Fifteen brackets was way too many. Do some research and figure out how much most people make when they make more than $379,150 and create another bracket or two. Cap it at 50%.
 
2011-10-18 10:19:02 AM

Chulainn: I saw a great TED video on this problem a while back, if you can find it I think you might like it.


Yeah sure, hook it up.
 
2011-10-18 10:19:21 AM

Gaseous Anomaly: Insufficient demand = businesses don't need to hire more because they wouldn't be able to sell more anyway = unemployment stays high = demand stays low.


The private sector could fix that without the government getting involved.
 
2011-10-18 10:19:37 AM

HeartBurnKid: archichris: HeartBurnKid: archichris: HeartBurnKid: archichris: ~wall o' derp~

The left is going to go after you next? My ass.

The right is going after you RIGHT NOW.


Isn't this the most infuriating thing? "My podunk business will do fine once the last regulation falls away! Boo lefties!"
And then you'll be wondering why you're having to slave your children to Walmart when they're 12 and where all that money in your bank account went. Because everyone benefits when the rich get richer, and that's why places like Norway and Denmark with the lowest gini coefficients have arguably the highest living standards in the world, right?
 
2011-10-18 10:19:38 AM

Santa's Knee: SilentStrider: EWreckedSean: And people wonder why the right doesn't support OWS.

because they're idiots?
Because Fox News told them not to?
Because socialism?
Because Blood for the Blood God?

Because it has yet to accomplish anything?



Because it won't get republicans elected? That does seem to be all the Tea party types care about.
 
2011-10-18 10:19:53 AM

sweetmelissa31: tacks: Yes, there are a number of individuals working in finance that get multiples more than what they're worth, and a handful more that take excessive risk with other people's money. But - everyone is guilty. Shoplifters, healthcare and welfare fraud, gate jumpers on subways, delinquint payers of credit, race card players vandals, bloated unions, tax cheats, career criminals, frivelous lawsuits, corrupt politicians, baby mommas and deadbeat dads, the whore on the street corner, your mom, are all guilty of abusing the system and raising the cost of living for all of us.

By "everyone" being guilty, you mean "poor people."


Nope, a significant portion of both natural persons and corporations / organizations. And however you want to define poor, yes it would include the poor as well.
 
2011-10-18 10:20:00 AM
MOAR BAGDOG! MOAR!
 
2011-10-18 10:20:13 AM

WhyteRaven74: Shaggy_C: even though it's the primary cause of this nation's ills.

No it's not.


upload.wikimedia.org

recession.org

Send the jobs away and employers can increase their standards for hiring here. Suddenly, a Bachelors degree becomes the only way to get your foot in the door. Increased numbers of young people are forced t go to college to even stand a chance in the labor market. They have to take out huge loans to do so. They graduate to find that they are competing against people with decades of experience for the same meager wages. All the while, India and China grow at a rapid pace.

But we're mad because of tax rates on people who wear suits.
 
2011-10-18 10:20:13 AM

Did you get a picture of my sign?

i.i.com.com
\O/
l
/ \
 
2011-10-18 10:20:16 AM

I_C_Weener: by being in the Obama Admin to do all the bailouts that put Goldman Sachs at the top of the pyramid.


I'm sure this is just an honest mistake and you meant to say "Bush Admin".
 
2011-10-18 10:20:29 AM
link to your blog is farked.
 
2011-10-18 10:20:33 AM

LOGINGOESHERE: Fifteen brackets was way too many. Do some research and figure out how much most people make when they make more than $379,150 and create another bracket or two. Cap it at 50%.


I'm good with this, although I still would like to see loopholes closed and cap gains increased to encourage re-investment. But adding 2 more brackets at the top would be a VERY solid first step.
 
2011-10-18 10:20:50 AM
Your blog sucks.
Well, it might be wonderful but when the linky don't work, it sucks.
 
2011-10-18 10:21:40 AM

WhyteRaven74: Gaseous Anomaly: Insufficient demand = businesses don't need to hire more because they wouldn't be able to sell more anyway = unemployment stays high = demand stays low.

The private sector could fix that without the government getting involved.


Well... we're waiting.
 
2011-10-18 10:21:45 AM

topcon: mbillips: I don't really see this as "doing something." It's more like "hanging out." When your message seems to be "I don't have enough money because bankers," without any clear proposed solutions, people are going to sneer at you and call you childish. This is more active than putting a green banner on your Facebook page, but it's still slacktivism.

Judging from most of those "99 percent" signs I've read, it's more " because I made stupid decisions and now I'm in huge debt."

Most non-Gen-Y'ers see this for what it is.


Funny, public opinion polls seem to say most of the US supports the 99%

The basic idea of OWS/99% is that 1% of the U.S. population has 35% of the total wealth, and that they have continued to get richer and richer over the last 30 years while the rest of the US has gotten relatively poorer and poorer, and this is a bad thing and should be changed.

The only way you can genuinely oppose the 99% in ideology if you think that everybody who is not wealthy is that way because they are poor/dumb/bad people and if they were just harder working and better they'd be richer, and that the rich are that way because they are supposed to be because they are superior in hard work/skill/effort ect. If you aren't making ~$280,000+ per year (roughly the 1% top income threshold). . .they are out there marching for you and standing up for you. It is about economic equality and social justice.

Seems like the teabaggers, randroids and other conservatives have latched onto the idea that "if you are in student loan debt you are a fool" is their mantra for trying to discredit the 99%
 
2011-10-18 10:22:10 AM
Brought 6 cans of spray paints, a bunch of exacto knives, and some markers to help out at the OWS in my city yesterday.

Met a couple veterans, a bunch of homeless people, and also a lot of people who are tired of getting screwed over. This family even brought their 8 year old over to make signs. OWS is only growing.
 
2011-10-18 10:22:10 AM

ProudRedneck: Not a lot of black faces in the mob. Using lib guidelines that label Tea Party rally's, ows is full of racism and hatred.
Should've taken some photos of a thermometer and the exits. When the temp drops the children will start heading home to the caregivers. Having accomplished nothing.


Your soul died inside of you years ago. Your mentality followed shortly after your soul's demise.

Now do us all a favor and put a shotgun to your face, pull the trigger and complete the job.
 
2011-10-18 10:22:23 AM

spman: I just love how no one points out the fact that the entire Tea Party movement was framed as being racist just because of a few guys down south passing out KKK literature that went ignored, but no one is pointing out the blantent racism going on by a handful of people at OWS Link


The bullshiat in your post and in Rush's insanity is delicious. No more (burp) I'm full.
 
2011-10-18 10:22:31 AM
Bag Dog is the hot new mascot of the OWS movement!

/1% of dogs control 50% of the steak!
 
2011-10-18 10:22:47 AM

HeartBurnKid: watson.t.hamster: Here's a tip: if you want government to stop doing something either mobilize a lot of votes against them or a lot of money for the opposition.

You don't think this is going to mobilize a lot of voters?


I would guess there's plenty of voter registration and education at these things, stunned if there's not. Seems obvious, for Democrats anyway.
 
2011-10-18 10:23:20 AM

Wendy's Chili: I_C_Weener: by being in the Obama Admin to do all the bailouts that put Goldman Sachs at the top of the pyramid.

I'm sure this is just an honest mistake and you meant to say "Bush Admin".


Maybe so on the Bush Admin. But "Google Jews"...um..."Google Goldman Sachs connections to Obama Admin" (new window).

Pretty close ties. And who benefits most from the policies that led to the OWS protests? GS is pretty high on that list. Convenient coincidence or "vast left wing conspiracy"?
 
2011-10-18 10:23:28 AM
Your blog sucks....


awesomeness from thin air so hard I bet you fart to the tune of Take the Power Back.

/nice job subby, thank you!
 
2011-10-18 10:23:48 AM

EWreckedSean: We are no where near the limit though. It isn't going to change soon. Trust me, as a libertarian, I'd like to think the same things about government that you think about Wall Street, But the truth is we'll be lucky to see it change in our lives. We are still dealing with the fall out of the housing/credit bubble. In a year or two, things will start picking up again, and we'll stumble along until the next down turn, and so on. Hell the biggest economic boom in the history of this country was still going on 12 years ago. The breaking point has not remotely been reached.


Well see that's where you and I disconnect, you're still wanting to push the limits of nature, and I'm saying we're there right now. Either we choose to self-limit in a manner that's as comfortable as possible, or it will be imposed upon us through many decades/centuries of famine, war, economic collapse, disease, whatever else. Not that these things haven't happened already, but they will be worse than any of us can possibly imagine right now in our nice climate-controlled buildings.

And as nekom said, I don't think we'll choose to self-limit. I'm pretty sure we'll just keep pushing ourselves right over the cliff. We're not that collectively smart I suppose. Don't say I never told you so, though.
 
2011-10-18 10:24:05 AM

Shaggy_C: But we're mad because of tax rates on people who wear suits.


Your throwing your blame in the wrong places. No one had to send jobs anywhere. The college degree thing has nothing to do with that, indeed it's patently stupid the way it's become required for so many jobs. We have a culture where people, a lot of them anyways, think that if you want an education you should pay a lot of money because anything good must be pricey.

halfof33: Did you get a picture of my sign?


It's funny how you just can't blame the private sector for anything they've done wrong. it's always someone else's fault. How's that personal responsibility thing working for you?
 
2011-10-18 10:24:05 AM

WhyteRaven74: Gaseous Anomaly: Insufficient demand = businesses don't need to hire more because they wouldn't be able to sell more anyway = unemployment stays high = demand stays low.

The private sector could fix that without the government getting involved.


WR... people don't hire if there's no demand for what they sell. This is why supply side doesn't make sense to bolster an economy with flagging aggregate demand. The private sector will NOT fix this.
 
2011-10-18 10:24:11 AM
choosepp.net
 
2011-10-18 10:24:40 AM

skullkrusher: WhyteRaven74: Gaseous Anomaly: Insufficient demand = businesses don't need to hire more because they wouldn't be able to sell more anyway = unemployment stays high = demand stays low.

The private sector could fix that without the government getting involved.

WR... people don't hire if there's no demand for what they sell. This is why supply side doesn't make sense to bolster an economy with flagging aggregate demand. The private sector will NOT fix this.


well in this regard at least
 
2011-10-18 10:24:50 AM

tommyl66: starsrift: So why occupy wall street and not Washington, DC, or their congresspeople's offices?

I wonder this myself sometimes. I fully support OWS and what they stand for, but I wonder how much more effective they'd be if they focused their numbers where it counts. What if the protesters took some of that money that they've raised and used it to buy train/bus tickets to Washington? I realize a great number of them couldn't make that trip, but for the hardcore 24/7 protesters, why not?


Well, they are getting plenty of attention doing it the way they are doing, so... maybe you didn't think this through?

If your kid is watching TV all day, and you are trying to get him to focus on schoolwork do you:
A) Sit at the kitchen table, patiently waiting for him to show up.
B) Turn off the TV.
C) Turn off the TV, stand between him and the tube, hand him his homework and pencil and have him go to.

Wall Street is the primary focus of our politicians? That's where you need to put your signs. That's where you need to stand. Want to look at the shiny things over here? Stare through the rabble and look at what you're doing.

It's pretty powerful stuff, really. I've thought this was super-smart from the outset.
 
2011-10-18 10:25:15 AM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: I would guess there's plenty of voter registration and education at these things, stunned if there's not. Seems obvious, for Democrats anyway.


Until OWS folks find out that Obama's Last Two (official) Chiefs of Staf are millionaire Wall Street Bankers.

Get the Wall Street Bankers out of Obama's White House.
 
2011-10-18 10:25:25 AM

Wendy's Chili: I_C_Weener: by being in the Obama Admin to do all the bailouts that put Goldman Sachs at the top of the pyramid.

I'm sure this is just an honest mistake and you meant to say "Bush Admin".


Good catch.
 
2011-10-18 10:25:35 AM
End the illegal occupation of Wall Street!

Bring our hippies home!
 
2011-10-18 10:25:36 AM
While I don't always agree with OWP (and they stand for a mix of things, even though they don't exactly state them), they are exceedingly necessary today as the "middle class" salary shrinks and the CEO and upper 1% climbs. Our government is just giving money away to those who squander it in the form of bailouts and subsidies.

This does NOT mean you should go to an expensive private school, get a worthless degree, live in down town New York and act "shocked" when you are defaulting on your loans. There is no reason to put yourself in debt like that.
 
2011-10-18 10:26:06 AM

WhyteRaven74: It's funny how you just can't blame the private sector for anything they've done wrong. it's always someone else's fault. How's that personal responsibility thing working for you?


Government should stay the fark out of my life. Unless I screwed up, then that's exactly where the government SHOULD have been and shame on them for not being there.
 
2011-10-18 10:26:07 AM

fracto73: Santa's Knee: SilentStrider: EWreckedSean: And people wonder why the right doesn't support OWS.

because they're idiots?
Because Fox News told them not to?
Because socialism?
Because Blood for the Blood God?

Because it has yet to accomplish anything?


Because it won't get republicans elected? That does seem to be all the Tea party types care about.


True - the spice must flow.
 
2011-10-18 10:26:23 AM

Wendy's Chili: Well... we're waiting.


I think that's part of why a lot of people are ticked off. You have high unemployment and many corporations reporting growing profits and even record profits at the same time.

skullkrusher: eople don't hire if there's no demand for what they sell.


The private sector can create demand. The lack of demand is basically the result of 30 years of stagnant wages. Fix that and the demand thing takes care of itself quite quickly.
 
2011-10-18 10:27:25 AM
I think Bag Dog is going to need an agent.
 
2011-10-18 10:27:32 AM

enforcerpsu: While I don't always agree with OWP (and they stand for a mix of things, even though they don't exactly state them), they are exceedingly necessary today as the "middle class" salary shrinks and the CEO and upper 1% climbs. Our government is just giving money away to those who squander it in the form of bailouts and subsidies.

This does NOT mean you should go to an expensive private school, get a worthless degree, live in down town New York and act "shocked" when you are defaulting on your loans. There is no reason to put yourself in debt like that.


CFOs, COOs, CIOs and CTOs must be loving life. They're not after us, boys :)
 
2011-10-18 10:27:34 AM

ronaprhys: That being said, limiting our nature to nomadism/environmental equilibrium is patently false. That's one point along our evolution. You cannot compare our species development and evolution to others at this point due to the ability to communicate and pass on learnings.


A textbook example of anthropocentrism - crows and ravens communicate and pass knowledge and learned behaviors to their offspring. Undoubtedly other animals do so as well. Humans are not unique in this regard. It's interesting that the list of creatures with high intelligence continues to grow as humans get around to studying other creatures in depth, and let go of their paleolithic assumptions about the superiority and uniqueness of themselves. Ultimately survival is the test of adaptation, and by that standard the birds are superior to any hominid.
 
2011-10-18 10:27:35 AM

make me some tea: EWreckedSean: We are no where near the limit though. It isn't going to change soon. Trust me, as a libertarian, I'd like to think the same things about government that you think about Wall Street, But the truth is we'll be lucky to see it change in our lives. We are still dealing with the fall out of the housing/credit bubble. In a year or two, things will start picking up again, and we'll stumble along until the next down turn, and so on. Hell the biggest economic boom in the history of this country was still going on 12 years ago. The breaking point has not remotely been reached.

Well see that's where you and I disconnect, you're still wanting to push the limits of nature, and I'm saying we're there right now. Either we choose to self-limit in a manner that's as comfortable as possible, or it will be imposed upon us through many decades/centuries of famine, war, economic collapse, disease, whatever else. Not that these things haven't happened already, but they will be worse than any of us can possibly imagine right now in our nice climate-controlled buildings.

And as nekom said, I don't think we'll choose to self-limit. I'm pretty sure we'll just keep pushing ourselves right over the cliff. We're not that collectively smart I suppose. Don't say I never told you so, though.


Wanting to push the limits and saying we are going to are two completely different things altogether...
 
2011-10-18 10:27:38 AM

seadoo2006: topcon: mbillips: I don't really see this as "doing something." It's more like "hanging out." When your message seems to be "I don't have enough money because bankers," without any clear proposed solutions, people are going to sneer at you and call you childish. This is more active than putting a green banner on your Facebook page, but it's still slacktivism.

Judging from most of those "99 percent" signs I've read, it's more " because I made stupid decisions and now I'm in huge debt."

Most non-Gen-Y'ers see this for what it is.

The real question is then, why do the millionaires on Wall Street get bonuses and a farking trillion dollar plus bailout from the government while the rest of us suffer? Seems to me what's good for the goose is good for the gander ... The doublespeak is astounding!


Why? Because life isn't fair. Here's where the problem is. Starting in the (early 90's?) kids were beginning to be taught that everyone is equal. At my mother's school, for instance, she was, as of around 1994 or 1995, no longer allowed to have in-class games where the game had a clearly defined winner. No matter how poorly you played, or didn't know the answers to anything, you got a star, or sticker, or whatever. No matter how good you were, and actually studied to win, you also got a sticker. This is no troll...this was a rule passed down by the then-new principal of the school. This is the same elementary school I had went to myself in the 80's where no such rules existed.

At any one point in history, of any major civilization, or, hell, even minor ones, or even TRIBES...someone has more money than everyone else and calls the shots. This is not going to change. Ever. It's part of the fabric of humanity. Humans are, by nature, greedy. It's a survival instinct. Even if you think you aren't greedy, deep down inside, you really are. You could be swayed by money a lot easier than you think you would be. If a corporation man walked up to any one of the people at OWS, and said "I'll give you a million dollars a year for life if you walk away from this protest, and I have a contract right here stating so, all you need to do is sign," 9999 out of 10000 of them would sign it and walk away.

I don't agree with the bailouts, nor do I see why CEOs of failing businesses get bonuses (I really don't care about that, though,) but this is not going to change. Repeat this to yourself: This...situation...has always existed.

Can things be better? Sure...but we're always going to have depressions and recessions, no matter what financial system we're using. Everything fails at some point. That's also historically accurate. NO ONE actually knows how to fix the economy. Legions of economists can't even come up with a conclusive answer in solidarity.

This isn't even a solely American problem, the same thing is happening everywhere. This whole recent financial collapse is only partly an American problem...therefore, simply changing some American tax code or American law isn't going to magically fix it. It isn't on the American president to fix this, nor is it Obama's fault, et al.
 
2011-10-18 10:28:11 AM

canyoneer: Take 7 billion people (about 5 billion too many), add an energy crunch and "free trade," and voila: Falling standard of living.


As a programmer, believe me I give free trade a lot of thought.

I used to take as an article of faith that the US was headed for a big fall in living standards. Evidence: (2008 numbers) US GDP per capita $40K, world average $10K, (China/India dragging down the average with $2K and $6K but I forget which was which).

Therefore, as world gets flatter, everyone converges on that average of $10K, therefore US standards of living fall to 25% of today (plus gains from globalization, which sure as hell wouldn't quadruple the world economy).

Holy shiat that was depressing. I stagnated my career for YEARS on that logic.

Then I started learning macroeconomics by following some econ-bloggers. Brad DeLong changed my mind with a midterm question (which used real numbers for everything):

China's forecasted long-run GDP-per-capita growth rate is 6%. Ours is 2%. Where do they intersect?

If you do the math you find they intersect in 80-odd years, at $140K.

So, basically, economic growth will indeed save us from that fate. Way before the world gets totally flat the "giant sucking sound" of jobs to the Third World is going to slow and/or stop. And everyone gets a better standard of living.

It comes about because the wealth of a nation is in its people's production of goods and services. Getting people the hell out of subsistence farming is only going to grow the pie for everyone. We could run into fundamental limits of some kind but that sure seems a long way off; picture New York City densities all over the USA (and that wouldn't even be that hard).

That said, I gotta figure out how to survive the next decade or so of governments and businesses actively trying to screw everything up.
 
2011-10-18 10:28:15 AM
Protip for Fark Independents(tm): using the term "hippie", "socialist", "commie", "marxist", "nazi", "stalin", "mao", or "pinko" in an unironic way automatically discredits anything you say. If you want to have a serious conversation about socioeconomics, try speaking like a big boy. Remember, those "dirty commies" helped us win WW2, and don't try to deny it.
 
2011-10-18 10:28:40 AM

WhyteRaven74: It's funny how you just can't blame the private sector for anything they've done wrong. it's always someone else's fault. How's that personal responsibility thing working for you?


I am PREPARED to Blame at Least Two Wall Street Bankers for the Mess we are in.

The one who pulled in $20 million, and the One who was a major executive at JP MOrgan Chase during the Bubble and Bail Out.

GET WALL STREET OUT OF OBAMA'S WHITE HOUSE.
 
2011-10-18 10:28:48 AM
i56.tinypic.com

Bag bear prepares to strike. Pity the fool who brings brocollis to OWS protests.

www.sammiller.org
 
2011-10-18 10:28:51 AM

halfof33: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: I would guess there's plenty of voter registration and education at these things, stunned if there's not. Seems obvious, for Democrats anyway.

Until OWS folks find out that Obama's Last Two (official) Chiefs of Staf are millionaire Wall Street Bankers.


Yeah, they'll vote for Romney fer sure.
 
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