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(ABC) Interesting Japanese air force zeroes in on new fighter orders   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 91
More: Interesting, military operation plan, F-15, air forces, Japanese, Japan, F-22, Self-Defense Forces, military aircraft  
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10342 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Oct 2011 at 9:37 AM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»   |    Get this fabulous T-Shirt and impress the methane out of your friends! shirt it!



91 Comments   (+0 »)
   

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2011-10-16 09:27:20 AM
For self defense, of course. Having long-range stealth airplanes with unmatched first-strike capability is obviously a defensive weapon.

Why would anyone be worried about a Japan on the brink of economic ruin acquiring the best military toys America has to offer?
 
2011-10-16 09:40:58 AM
AverageAmericanGuy: For self defense, of course. Having long-range stealth airplanes with unmatched first-strike capability is obviously a defensive weapon.

Why would anyone be worried about a Japan on the brink of economic ruin acquiring the best military toys America has to offer?


When China attacks, you don't have to outrun the Chinese; you just have to outrun the Japanese.
 
2011-10-16 09:44:19 AM
Ahhh the F-22 raptor.....*swoon*
 
2011-10-16 09:44:33 AM
FTA:"Japan - with 362 fighter jets, mostly F-15s, F-4s and F-2s - is already one of the top air powers in the region."

Didn't anyone tell them the F4 doesn't have a cannon? I mean, they'd probably only be good for kamikaze run....

Oh, riiiiight
 
2011-10-16 09:44:36 AM
Made in Japan . . .

i1125.photobucket.com
 
2011-10-16 09:45:04 AM
fighter jet porn thread!

/awaiting the cries of "Russian jets are sooooo much better"
 
2011-10-16 09:46:45 AM
AverageAmericanGuy: For self defense, of course. Having long-range stealth airplanes with unmatched first-strike capability is obviously a defensive weapon.

Why would anyone be worried about a Japan on the brink of economic ruin acquiring the best military toys America has to offer?


Yeah they probably shouldnt worry about a country that views anything just short of Hawaii as within its "sphere of influence" and is making claims on every bit of ocean and land with that sphere as being a "historically Chinese" territory. I'm sure they'll all play nice.
 
2011-10-16 09:47:13 AM
tankjr: Didn't anyone tell them the F4 doesn't have a cannon?

notsureifserious.jpg
 
2011-10-16 09:47:22 AM
YouPeopleAreCrazy: fighter jet porn thread!

/awaiting the cries of "Russian jets are sooooo much better"


t0.gstatic.com
 
2011-10-16 09:49:45 AM
tankjr:

[t0.gstatic.com image 258x195]

And there are how many operational squadrons of those?
 
2011-10-16 09:49:50 AM
With the air force grounded, Godzilla launched his attack.
 
2011-10-16 09:52:43 AM
AverageAmericanGuy: Why would anyone be worried about a Japan on the brink of economic ruin acquiring the best military toys America has to offer?


The Imperial Japanese Army got TROUNCED by the end of World War II. By the time the bombs were dropped Japan's empire was beaten on all fronts and just circling the drain.

It's hard to bounce back from a beating like that. The Japanese still remember that defeat culturally and as such are some of the least likely to be warmongers of any culture I've met. They're slightly more pacifistic than sober Canadians.

But, their mortal enemy, if they have one, is China and their nearest insane neighbor is North Korea. Both nuclear powers. Both highly militarized.

Japan won't start any wars, but if one does start, they'll need the best stuff there is already in the chamber or it will go poorly for them.
 
2011-10-16 09:53:15 AM
YouPeopleAreCrazy: tankjr:

[t0.gstatic.com image 258x195]

And there are how many operational squadrons of those?


You are moving the goal posts.
 
2011-10-16 09:57:35 AM
ProudRedneck: With the air force grounded, Godzilla launched his attack.

Methinks it's Rodan they're worried about.
 
2011-10-16 09:58:44 AM
Harv72b: ProudRedneck: With the air force grounded, Godzilla launched his attack.

Methinks it's Rodan they're worried about.


That made me laugh more than it should have
 
2011-10-16 10:01:03 AM
tankjr: You are moving the goal posts.

A prototype may or may not be 'better'. But a single jet does not an air force make.

I'd argue that a single F-22 squadron, minus all the other stuff (sat comm/AWACS/JSTARS/next gen missiles/etc/etc) would lose to an F-15 squadron with all that stuff. If not lose, at least fight to a draw.

Jets do not fly actual combat 1 on 1. It's easy to say that a particular airframe has certain characteristics that another doesn't. But until there is a full on, balls out, flyoff, we may never know.
 
2011-10-16 10:01:57 AM
I Zeke what you did there, subby
 
2011-10-16 10:02:24 AM
doglover:

They're slightly more pacifistic than sober Canadians.

This has WIN written all over it...
 
2011-10-16 10:03:54 AM
YouPeopleAreCrazy: tankjr:

[t0.gstatic.com image 258x195]

And there are how many operational squadrons of those?


No fewer than operational squadrons of F35s.

Japan will probably buy American for political reasons. Personally I think Typhoon deserves a shot, it's a much better fighter than the F18 and the F35 project is an ongoing mess.
 
2011-10-16 10:03:54 AM
Plant Rights Activist: I Zeke what you did there, subby

rob.nu
 
2011-10-16 10:13:53 AM
cbunny: YouPeopleAreCrazy: tankjr:

[t0.gstatic.com image 258x195]

And there are how many operational squadrons of those?

No fewer than operational squadrons of F35s.

Japan will probably buy American for political reasons. Personally I think Typhoon deserves a shot, it's a much better fighter than the F18 and the F35 project is an ongoing mess.


Personally, I think we're overlooking zeppelins as a potential military vehicle.

With modern technology, you could simply make a zeppelin with so many anti-weapon weapons on it, it would be night invulnerable. Too guarded to missile, too big for small arms, too high to climb to, and able to be remotely controlled from a safe location. It would be like a very slow missile that also shoots back. Like a modern day siege tower.
 
2011-10-16 10:15:04 AM
AverageAmericanGuy: For self defense, of course. Having long-range stealth airplanes with unmatched first-strike capability is obviously a defensive weapon.


The best defense is a good offense.

The ideal time to engage hostile forces is when they are in range of your weapons but you are not in range of theirs.
 
2011-10-16 10:21:04 AM
AverageAmericanGuy [TotalFark] Quote 2011-10-16 09:27:20 AM
For self defense, of course. Having long-range stealth airplanes with unmatched first-strike capability is obviously a defensive weapon.

Why would anyone be worried about a Japan on the brink of economic ruin acquiring the best military toys America has to offer?


Uh, last time I checked, Japan is our good friend in the region. As in an industrialized 1st world country whose society, politics, etc. have little in common with its admittedly nasty WWII fascist past, and is a good counterbalance to China which is unpredictable and North Korea. We have a base or bases on their territory, and they are friends with our East Asian friends - South Korea, Taiwan, etc.

So, tell me what is the problem with selling Japan fighters?
 
2011-10-16 10:23:49 AM
AverageAmericanGuy: For self defense, of course. Having long-range stealth airplanes with unmatched first-strike capability is obviously a defensive weapon.

Why would anyone be worried about a Japan on the brink of economic ruin acquiring the best military toys America has to offer?


Japan is constitutionally forbidden from having an "army". After WWII, we made sure that they had enough equipment to defend their islands and not do a whole lot more.

Besides, this isn't some third-world hell hole. It's Japan.
 
2011-10-16 10:24:49 AM
What happened to "The Japanese military forces shall be completely disarmed" in the Potsdam Declaration?
 
2011-10-16 10:26:42 AM
And all of our elite soldiers could wear a tuxedo, top hat, and monocle during every engagement.
 
2011-10-16 10:26:59 AM
Japan will go with the F-35. They need something to go on their "helicopter destroyers"

www.marinebuzz.com
 
2011-10-16 10:27:10 AM
schema-root.org
 
2011-10-16 10:29:10 AM
YouPeopleAreCrazy: A prototype may or may not be 'better'. But a single jet does not an air force make.

I'd argue that a single F-22 squadron, minus all the other stuff (sat comm/AWACS/JSTARS/next gen missiles/etc/etc) would lose to an F-15 squadron with all that stuff. If not lose, at least fight to a draw.

Jets do not fly actual combat 1 on 1. It's easy to say that a particular airframe has certain characteristics that another doesn't. But until there is a full on, balls out, flyoff, we may never know.


This.

As it is, the F-15 is still undefeated in Air-to-Air combat after 38 years of operational history. The only reason they need to be replaced is the sheer age of the airframes. A new production run of updated F-15 airframes (like the F-15SE Silent Eagle proposal) would still be better than anything the USAF or JASDF would go up against, at a fraction of the cost of a 5th gen warbird. No need for a revolutionary improvement when an incremental improvement is adequate.
 
2011-10-16 10:31:50 AM
YouPeopleAreCrazy: tankjr: You are moving the goal posts.

A prototype may or may not be 'better'. But a single jet does not an air force make.

I'd argue that a single F-22 squadron, minus all the other stuff (sat comm/AWACS/JSTARS/next gen missiles/etc/etc) would lose to an F-15 squadron with all that stuff. If not lose, at least fight to a draw.

Jets do not fly actual combat 1 on 1. It's easy to say that a particular airframe has certain characteristics that another doesn't. But until there is a full on, balls out, flyoff, we may never know.


I'm guessing you aren't quite familiar with the capabilities of the F-22 systems. Between the radar and network/infosharing, part of the huge value of the F-22 is it largely replaces the need for AWACS and JSTARS
 
2011-10-16 10:35:26 AM
Bigjohn3592: 'm guessing you aren't quite familiar with the capabilities of the F-22 systems. Between the radar and network/infosharing, part of the huge value of the F-22 is it largely replaces the need for AWACS and JSTARS

I just figured out the very first thing the Chinese will do to make the F-22 a very expensive paperweight.
 
2011-10-16 10:36:01 AM
cbunny: YouPeopleAreCrazy: tankjr:

[t0.gstatic.com image 258x195]

And there are how many operational squadrons of those?

No fewer than operational squadrons of F35s.


The Berkut is a technology demonstrator, a comparison to the F-22/F-35 would be a plane such as the PAK FA considering that has actual plans to go onto the production line.
 
2011-10-16 10:36:34 AM
Leave Japan alone! For great justice, they're taking off every zig.

/This long, Fark?
//Seriously?
///I am disappoint
 
2011-10-16 10:37:36 AM
cbunny: YouPeopleAreCrazy: tankjr:

[t0.gstatic.com image 258x195]

And there are how many operational squadrons of those?

No fewer than operational squadrons of F35s.

Japan will probably buy American for political reasons. Personally I think Typhoon deserves a shot, it's a much better fighter than the F18 and the F35 project is an ongoing mess.


Of the three, the Typhoon will look best in JASDF paint. Plus it's a better point-defense fighter for an island nation, particularly if they buy the MBDA Meteor.

F-35 is....really heavy. Its flight profile is nearly identical to a cold war bomber, the F-105 Thunderchief.

The Superbug is a stopgap airplane to bridge the loss of the A-6/A-7/original Hornet and the arrival of the F-35C, I can't believe it's being seriously considered. They just put the Mitsubishi F-2 into service, why not build more of those and help spread out the massive development costs it incurred? It's hardly outclassed by the Superbug.
 
2011-10-16 10:37:48 AM
clyph: No need for a revolutionary improvement when an incremental improvement is adequate.

liberal!
 
2011-10-16 10:38:27 AM
I, too, see what you did there, subby!

/Kinda liked the F-2 a bit.
 
2011-10-16 10:39:06 AM
clyph: YouPeopleAreCrazy: A prototype may or may not be 'better'. But a single jet does not an air force make.

I'd argue that a single F-22 squadron, minus all the other stuff (sat comm/AWACS/JSTARS/next gen missiles/etc/etc) would lose to an F-15 squadron with all that stuff. If not lose, at least fight to a draw.

Jets do not fly actual combat 1 on 1. It's easy to say that a particular airframe has certain characteristics that another doesn't. But until there is a full on, balls out, flyoff, we may never know.

This.

As it is, the F-15 is still undefeated in Air-to-Air combat after 38 years of operational history. The only reason they need to be replaced is the sheer age of the airframes. A new production run of updated F-15 airframes (like the F-15SE Silent Eagle proposal) would still be better than anything the USAF or JASDF would go up against, at a fraction of the cost of a 5th gen warbird. No need for a revolutionary improvement when an incremental improvement is adequate.


With the rediculous costs of the F-35, combined with the national financial situation, I'm starting to favor new runs of -15s, -16s, and -18s. And I think the F-35 is a helluva plane. Got to see one of the prototypes up close at Pax River. But unaffordable is unaffordable.

They aren't overpriced by a little bit, but are looking like they will cost 2x of a reasonable price for a light fighter.
 
2011-10-16 10:39:13 AM
Calvin Butterball: Leave Japan alone! For great justice, they're taking off every zig.

/This long, Fark?
//Seriously?
///I am disappoint


I live in Japan.

That old school Engrish isn't only unknown, it's been overridden in my head by a sea of far more coma inducing non-sequiters. For example:

i161.photobucket.com
 
2011-10-16 10:40:19 AM
doglover: Calvin Butterball: Leave Japan alone! For great justice, they're taking off every zig.

/This long, Fark?
//Seriously?
///I am disappoint

I live in Japan.

That old school Engrish isn't only unknown, it's been overridden in my head by a sea of far more coma inducing non-sequiters. For example:

[i161.photobucket.com image 601x488]


Eraser-sized. QE farking D
 
2011-10-16 10:42:41 AM
doglover: Calvin Butterball: Leave Japan alone! For great justice, they're taking off every zig.

/This long, Fark?
//Seriously?
///I am disappoint

I live in Japan.

That old school Engrish isn't only unknown, it's been overridden in my head by a sea of far more coma inducing non-sequiters. For example:

[i161.photobucket.com image 601x488]


Those are clearly not F cups
 
2011-10-16 10:43:42 AM
Japanese *what* ?!
 
2011-10-16 10:44:22 AM
Living in Japan has shown me that 99% of the people here are completely against armed conflict of any kind short of defending their own soil. There is no way modern Japan would ever instigate any sort of hostile action simply because the government would have absolutely no support whatsoever.

It's good to know there are plentiful US bases around these islands, but unfortunately the Americans can't be everywhere at once. If Japan needs to upgrade its planes to do its part in keeping this region safe, then the only people who suffer as a result are the potential opponents.

As for which kind of plane to select, I say they contract out the highest bidder to create a Super Zero.
 
2011-10-16 10:45:13 AM
zato_ichi: [schema-root.org image 450x310]

The JASDF already flies the F-2 (new window), which is essentially an upgraded and upscaled F-16. Other than the looks, there isn't much commonality between the two, though.
 
2011-10-16 10:45:54 AM
doglover: Calvin Butterball: Leave Japan alone! For great justice, they're taking off every zig.

/This long, Fark?
//Seriously?
///I am disappoint

I live in Japan.

That old school Engrish isn't only unknown, it's been overridden in my head by a sea of far more coma inducing non-sequiters. For example:

[i161.photobucket.com image 601x488]


Poor little Japanese titties. Placing their hopes and dreams in magic candy.
 
2011-10-16 10:46:16 AM
tankjr: doglover: Calvin Butterball: Leave Japan alone! For great justice, they're taking off every zig.

/This long, Fark?
//Seriously?
///I am disappoint

I live in Japan.

That old school Engrish isn't only unknown, it's been overridden in my head by a sea of far more coma inducing non-sequiters. For example:

[i161.photobucket.com image 601x488]

Those are clearly not F cups


That is clearly a F*ck*p.
 
2011-10-16 10:46:46 AM
tankjr: doglover: Calvin Butterball: Leave Japan alone! For great justice, they're taking off every zig.

/This long, Fark?
//Seriously?
///I am disappoint

I live in Japan.

That old school Engrish isn't only unknown, it's been overridden in my head by a sea of far more coma inducing non-sequiters. For example:

[i161.photobucket.com image 601x488]

Those are clearly not F cups


That's the joke. It contains some substance that is supposed to enlarge breasts.
 
2011-10-16 10:46:56 AM
Bigjohn3592: With the rediculous costs of the F-35, combined with the national financial situation, I'm starting to favor new runs of -15s, -16s, and -18s. And I think the F-35 is a helluva plane. Got to see one of the prototypes up close at Pax River. But unaffordable is unaffordable.

They aren't overpriced by a little bit, but are looking like they will cost 2x of a reasonable price for a light fighter.


The F-15 could be a modern equivalent of the Brown Bess musket (and by comparison, the B-52 is the modern equivalent of the wooden club). You could keep building more of them for hundreds of years and it wouldn't be properly obsolete because your enemies would just go bankrupt trying to put a weapon that tops it into service.

/turns out, nobody can afford more than a handful of 5th-gen fighters anyway
 
2011-10-16 10:49:39 AM
Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Bigjohn3592: With the rediculous costs of the F-35, combined with the national financial situation, I'm starting to favor new runs of -15s, -16s, and -18s. And I think the F-35 is a helluva plane. Got to see one of the prototypes up close at Pax River. But unaffordable is unaffordable.

They aren't overpriced by a little bit, but are looking like they will cost 2x of a reasonable price for a light fighter.

The F-15 could be a modern equivalent of the Brown Bess musket (and by comparison, the B-52 is the modern equivalent of the wooden club). You could keep building more of them for hundreds of years and it wouldn't be properly obsolete because your enemies would just go bankrupt trying to put a weapon that tops it into service.

/turns out, nobody can afford more than a handful of 5th-gen fighters anyway


We'll see if you still think so after Germany bombs Pearl Harbor again.
 
2011-10-16 10:49:44 AM
What a new Japanese Air Force fighter may look like:

ghostlightning.files.wordpress.com
 
2011-10-16 10:53:38 AM
aagrajag: It contains some substance that is supposed to enlarge breasts.

The mystical substance known as "caloric value" has been cynically proven to enlarge your fatty tissues.

But you're a Japanese girl so your bra size starts at B, and with the padding that bra size in actually convex. You can achieve the legendary F-cup by simply breathing in before eating the cookie.
 
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