Apparently, so is this:

being a "people pleaser"

Which is good news.

You are now responsible for your own happiness, biatch!

Given that "Logic" is in quotes, it may not refer to actually having a logical point, but asserting that you are right because it it is "logical" even if it isn't. Relying on the stereotype that women are emotional and men are logical to establish you as being correct rather than actually having a point, basically.

WTF is up with this link? MYSQLDB?

This topic considered political by some.

NkThrasher: Given that "Logic" is in quotes, it may not refer to actually having a logical point, but asserting that you are right because it it is "logical" even if it isn't. Relying on the stereotype that women are emotional and men are logical to establish you as being correct rather than actually having a point, basically.

Pretty much this.

But some women are whiny emotional nutters who need to realize they are such.

Lenny_da_Hog: This topic considered political by some.

I hear both sides are bad.

Wouldn't it be Spock who is pissed? McCoy was always pissed about using logic?

Asa Phelps: if i wanted to be fair i could imagine that they mean using tortured logic to be a dick about something.

But then i saw that using pornography and owning weapons made the list.

this

GAT_00: What the hell am I abusing besides my own dick when I watch porn?

My wife walking in to find me watching porn: "Are you watching porn?"
Me: "Yup."
Her: "Lemme see... hey, they all look like me. That's sweet."
Me: "Well, I keep asking you to pose for some more photos..."

Hot sex and home-made porn ensue.

I love my wife. :)

MaudlinMutantMollusk: DO NOT LOOK AT HER

Ignoring her is abuse.

Lenny_da_Hog: This topic considered political by some.

There you go again, claiming "the truth", like you know everything and are always right!

jm105: Lenny_da_Hog: This topic considered political by some.

There you go again, claiming "the truth", like you know everything and are always right!

Keep saying that and I'll withhold sex.

Nice headline subby, but everybody knows Chewbacca was the logical one.

Could've been better written but it was "using 'logic'", not "using logic." This is supposed to be a self-assessment and anyone being honest with himself will understand what's meant here.

Sadly, that doesn't include a lot of Farkers who I'm sure will continue to provide examples in this thread.

MFAWG: Wouldn't it be Spock who is pissed? McCoy was always pissed about using logic?




We always hurt the ones we love.

I wouldn't considering the first one abuse, per se, but a potential prelude to later psychological abuse. Sometimes people can be angry without being abusive. We all have bad days. The second one is only abuse if it's unwarranted. Some criticisms aren't abuse, they really are legitimate complaints (e.g. if you have proof your spouse is cheating, accusing him or her of cheating and/or blaming him or her for causing strain on the relationship isn't abuse, it's matter of fact). The third, fourth, and fifth ones are, if not abusive then very demeaning. The sixth one uses a lot of quotation marks, meaning that "truth" and "logic" aren't being used as actual truth or logic, but some command imperative that assumes I am always right and you are always wrong. I don't know if lying or cheating are abusive, but they are destructive to any relationship. Watching porn isn't abuse. Some couples watch porn together, some wives don't mind if the husband uses porn every once in a while instead of constantly bugging her for sex. Being a crappy husband (not helping with the kids or housework) can be abuse if you unequivocally demand she do everything, but it's really more being a complete jackass and an extra burden on your wife. Of all the things listed on the emotional withholding line, not respecting her feelings, rights, or opinions is the only one that's even close to emotionally abusive. Some people are mentally well adjusted and not abusive in spite of being reticent to share their own feelings or express their emotions. Not giving support is being a jackass, not necessarily being abusive. Not taking care of yourself is only abusive if you expressly demand your wife takes care of you.

The psychological abuse list is more of a retrospective thing than it is predictive. You can look at abusers and see they do/did these things with greater frequency than non-abusive husbands, but that list is absolutely not predictive. We've all had bad days and been angry and yelled. We've all watched porn even when we're in a relationship. A lot of us do not express our emotions often. Twisting words and declaring yourself to be more "logical" may be more indicative of being on the Fark politics tab than it is of being an abuser, although abusers often do that as well. Economic coercion and disrespecting her feelings, rights, and opinions may be the only ones on the psychological list that are predictive of abuse.

Of course, I have to admit I don't study domestic abuse all that much so my intuition may be very wrong.

Wait. I see it now.

This is a metaphor for the relationship between the GOP and the minimum-wage families who vote for them.

There's a reason "logic" is in quotes. Rationalizing behaviour is common to abusive relationships.

Actual logic is acceptable. Ie: Facts dictate feelings. "Logic" is what abusers claim they're using, but aren't. They let feelings dictate fact. That is to say, "I did something bad, therefore you must have deserved it." Twisted logic.

It's also a dictatorial method of controlling what other people have the right to think and feel. Rather than attempting to empathize with the partner, refusing to see it from their perspective or refusing to understand the occasionally limited information they may be acting on, they claim that they have no right to feel that way and their reactions weren't logical.

For example, if you haul off and slap your partner 25 times, and then go to give them a high five, they may flinch. An abusive person -- the kind of person that would slap their partner 25 times -- will attempt to "explain" to the other party that they had no "right" to flinch because they weren't going to hit them that time.

And yes, people think like that. Most of us are normal and do not.

In spite of the fact that this list uses the female pronoun, this is also a big-time checklist for female abusers of men.

Of course, the reality is not whether or not a person is engaging in any of these types of behaviours, but whether or not the behaviours are appropriate for a situation.

A man may, for example, smash things because the woman is going out with friends. A man may also smash things because the woman is bullying and threatening him and his frustration and anxiety levels are rising to the point where he cannot express himself in any meaningful way to her.

The why these things happen is actually far more important than what is happening. The what may be appropriate if the why is an acceptable provocation.

/Has loved a Cluster B
//Was raised by a Cluster B
///Had a normal step-father (thank God)

fta: "Lying, withholding information, infidelity (having sex with others)."

Funny infidelity needed to be defined.

Dr. Mojo PhD: In spite of the fact that this list uses the female pronoun, this is also a big-time checklist for female abusers of men.

It's certainly mine, except that no. 1 on the list is to agree on a safe word.

LargeCanine: fta: "Lying, withholding information, infidelity (having sex with others)."

Funny infidelity needed to be defined.

Nah, the funny thing is that a genuinely abusive person might easily define infidelity as "having any contact of any sort at any time with any member of the opposite sex."

Thankfully using logic is still legal in Topeka, since they legalized domestic violence.

\ Games of bureaucratic chicken, played for the benefit of wife beaters everywhere.

aagrajag: LargeCanine: fta: "Lying, withholding information, infidelity (having sex with others)."

Funny infidelity needed to be defined.

Nah, the funny thing is that a genuinely abusive person might easily define infidelity as "having any contact of any sort at any time with any member of the opposite sex."

Mine flipped into a rage on me because she went to Hooters (without me) with some friends and went on a ten minute tangent about how all the women working there were sluts and biatches and I could never ever go there without her supervision. I didn't even need to have contact with them. She just had to know they existed on the same planet as I did.

LargeCanine: fta: "Lying, withholding information, infidelity (having sex with others)."

Funny infidelity needed to be defined.

That's true. They painstakingly define an obvious term, yet put 'logic' in quotes and leave it up to the reader to 'totally get what we mean.'

Dr. Mojo PhD: aagrajag: LargeCanine: fta: "Lying, withholding information, infidelity (having sex with others)."

Funny infidelity needed to be defined.

Nah, the funny thing is that a genuinely abusive person might easily define infidelity as "having any contact of any sort at any time with any member of the opposite sex."

Mine flipped into a rage on me because she went to Hooters (without me) with some friends and went on a ten minute tangent about how all the women working there were sluts and biatches and I could never ever go there without her supervision. I didn't even need to have contact with them. She just had to know they existed on the same planet as I did.

Ah, you've been there too. My ex twice tried to strangle me in fits of jealous rage. It became so I didn't even speak over the phone to my best (female) friend for over a year.

Now happily married to said friend. Ex got her head together; friends with her too now.

aagrajag: Dr. Mojo PhD: aagrajag: LargeCanine: fta: "Lying, withholding information, infidelity (having sex with others)."

Funny infidelity needed to be defined.

Nah, the funny thing is that a genuinely abusive person might easily define infidelity as "having any contact of any sort at any time with any member of the opposite sex."

Mine flipped into a rage on me because she went to Hooters (without me) with some friends and went on a ten minute tangent about how all the women working there were sluts and biatches and I could never ever go there without her supervision. I didn't even need to have contact with them. She just had to know they existed on the same planet as I did.

Ah, you've been there too. My ex twice tried to strangle me in fits of jealous rage. It became so I didn't even speak over the phone to my best (female) friend for over a year.

Now happily married to said friend. Ex got her head together; friends with her too now.


It's none of my business, and no one deserves to be strangled, but I do perceive a certain irony in your situation.

Monty Python's perspective on logic and relationships (new window, NSFW audio).

KWess: aagrajag: Dr. Mojo PhD: aagrajag: LargeCanine: fta: "Lying, withholding information, infidelity (having sex with others)."

Funny infidelity needed to be defined.

Nah, the funny thing is that a genuinely abusive person might easily define infidelity as "having any contact of any sort at any time with any member of the opposite sex."

Mine flipped into a rage on me because she went to Hooters (without me) with some friends and went on a ten minute tangent about how all the women working there were sluts and biatches and I could never ever go there without her supervision. I didn't even need to have contact with them. She just had to know they existed on the same planet as I did.

Ah, you've been there too. My ex twice tried to strangle me in fits of jealous rage. It became so I didn't even speak over the phone to my best (female) friend for over a year.

Now happily married to said friend. Ex got her head together; friends with her too now.


It's none of my business, and no one deserves to be strangled, but I do perceive a certain irony in your situation.

Yes, I see it too, but that relationship didn't begin until years after I finally broke up with crazy ex.

So now we're greenlighting PDF links?

My girlfriend hates that I correct her all the time; I say "Hey, how do you you think I feel dating someone who's always wrong?"

aagrajag: KWess: aagrajag: Dr. Mojo PhD: aagrajag: LargeCanine: fta: "Lying, withholding information, infidelity (having sex with others)."

Funny infidelity needed to be defined.

Nah, the funny thing is that a genuinely abusive person might easily define infidelity as "having any contact of any sort at any time with any member of the opposite sex."

Mine flipped into a rage on me because she went to Hooters (without me) with some friends and went on a ten minute tangent about how all the women working there were sluts and biatches and I could never ever go there without her supervision. I didn't even need to have contact with them. She just had to know they existed on the same planet as I did.

Ah, you've been there too. My ex twice tried to strangle me in fits of jealous rage. It became so I didn't even speak over the phone to my best (female) friend for over a year.

Now happily married to said friend. Ex got her head together; friends with her too now.


It's none of my business, and no one deserves to be strangled, but I do perceive a certain irony in your situation.

Yes, I see it too, but that relationship didn't begin until years after I finally broke up with crazy ex.

Felicitations.

The list specifies not being sufficiently complimentary as abuse.

"Wow Dear, this meatloaf is exceptionally salty tonight!"

A couple of years ago I took my daughter out to Hampshire College in Amherst MA for an interview. While she was talking to a 20-something woman in an assymetrical haircut and a nosering about her college aspirations, I sat in the waiting room and read a student publication. It started with a history of the College, which was founded in 1965, and went something like this:

1965: College founded
1970: Black students take over administration building and demand special treatment. Administration caves in to their demands.
1972: Female students take over administration building and demand special treatment. Administration caves in to their demands.
1974: Gay students take over administration building and demand special treatment. Administration caves in to their demands.

The second half of the book was essentially a manual on how terrible it is to be a white heterosexual male, how to apologize for being a white heterosexual male, how to show the proper contrition for being a white heterosexual male, and how to show your solidarity with you moral superiors, the non-white and/or non-heterosexual and/or non-male. Afterwards we drove home and I told her about what I'd read. I said "What white, heterosexual male in his right mind would attend this school?" and she said "Not many." I said "So I'm guessing the dating pool is not very deep at Hampshire College" and she answered "Oh Daddy, that's what UMass is for."

Why is this in the politics tab?

aagrajag: Dr. Mojo PhD: aagrajag: LargeCanine: fta: "Lying, withholding information, infidelity (having sex with others)."

Funny infidelity needed to be defined.

Nah, the funny thing is that a genuinely abusive person might easily define infidelity as "having any contact of any sort at any time with any member of the opposite sex."

Mine flipped into a rage on me because she went to Hooters (without me) with some friends and went on a ten minute tangent about how all the women working there were sluts and biatches and I could never ever go there without her supervision. I didn't even need to have contact with them. She just had to know they existed on the same planet as I did.

Ah, you've been there too. My ex twice tried to strangle me in fits of jealous rage. It became so I didn't even speak over the phone to my best (female) friend for over a year.

Now happily married to said friend. Ex got her head together; friends with her too now.

Oh yeah. Nothing quite like it. I don't want to fly off on a tangent about what she'd do, but let's say little non-things would infuriate her. She would stab and burn objects when she was angry. She would ignore me -- or worse, ignore me and give me the death stare -- for hours or days when she was mad at me. Would deliberately break promises to me, and would tell me I was controlling for being upset about it. Actually once straight-up told me that when she was mad at me, she'd do the meanest thing possible to me, and if I couldn't accept that I couldn't accept her. Eight years later I can still remember her exact words. shiat like that.

Oddly, the less I fought back, the more I tried to show her I wasn't interested in fighting (she would escalate issues into full-blown fights, often changing the topic when she was "losing") the angrier she got. Because, as I later learned in abnormal psych, these people will cause issues to detonate to validate their belief that you will hurt them and abandon them, therefore justifying their anger. Crazy, crazy shiat.

Of course, when she'd love me, she'd love me like nobody in the world ever has. I'd be perfect. High highs and low lows. Just had to flip a coin in her head to see which side of her she'd show.

Had to go on Paxil when I was with her. When I finally realized that I was going insane because of her (they have a way of convincing you it's all your fault, especially if you're a problem-fixing perfectionist), I never needed that again.

That was... interesting.

Dr. Mojo PhD: aagrajag: Dr. Mojo PhD: aagrajag: LargeCanine: fta: "Lying, withholding information, infidelity (having sex with others)."

Funny infidelity needed to be defined.

Nah, the funny thing is that a genuinely abusive person might easily define infidelity as "having any contact of any sort at any time with any member of the opposite sex."

Mine flipped into a rage on me because she went to Hooters (without me) with some friends and went on a ten minute tangent about how all the women working there were sluts and biatches and I could never ever go there without her supervision. I didn't even need to have contact with them. She just had to know they existed on the same planet as I did.

Ah, you've been there too. My ex twice tried to strangle me in fits of jealous rage. It became so I didn't even speak over the phone to my best (female) friend for over a year.

Now happily married to said friend. Ex got her head together; friends with her too now.

Oh yeah. Nothing quite like it. I don't want to fly off on a tangent about what she'd do, but let's say little non-things would infuriate her. She would stab and burn objects when she was angry. She would ignore me -- or worse, ignore me and give me the death stare -- for hours or days when she was mad at me. Would deliberately break promises to me, and would tell me I was controlling for being upset about it. Actually once straight-up told me that when she was mad at me, she'd do the meanest thing possible to me, and if I couldn't accept that I couldn't accept her. Eight years later I can still remember her exact words. shiat like that.

Oddly, the less I fought back, the more I tried to show her I wasn't interested in fighting (she would escalate issues into full-blown fights, often changing the topic when she was "losing") the angrier she got. Because, as I later learned in abnormal psych, these people will cause issues to detonate to validate their belief that you will hurt them and abandon them, therefore justifying their anger. Crazy, crazy shiat.

Of course, when she'd love me, she'd love me like nobody in the world ever has. I'd be perfect. High highs and low lows. Just had to flip a coin in her head to see which side of her she'd show.

Had to go on Paxil when I was with her. When I finally realized that I was going insane because of her (they have a way of convincing you it's all your fault, especially if you're a problem-fixing perfectionist), I never needed that again.

That was... interesting.

Wow. Bipolar? Is there a name for what she has?

No news to me, as somebody accused of "verbal abuse" by my ex during our divorce proceedings. Verbal Abuse means anything they don't want to hear or admit, including completely logical and rational statements of fact. Her lawyer even called her out on it during settlement negotiations. "Well, that's your credit card bill, full of charges to travel to see your boyfriend, no way I should have to pay for that.", is a good example of using logic to verbally abuse someone. "I don't have to sit here and listen to him belittle me.", was her standard line. "Um, yes you do, unless you want to explain this boyfriend to the judge.", he lawyer said.

lol

aagrajag: GAT_00: What the hell am I abusing besides my own dick when I watch porn?

My wife walking in to find me watching porn: "Are you watching porn?"
Me: "Yup."
Her: "Lemme see... hey, they all look like me. That's sweet."
Me: "Well, I keep asking you to pose for some more photos..."

Hot sex and home-made porn ensue.

I love my wife. :)

You can't actually post that if you don't include a link to said homemade porn.

/reported