Bathia_Mapes: While I think the judge was wrong to deny an order of protection, even if he had, that wouldn't have stopped the guy's ex-wife from killing him.

I agree....the police and a piece of paper isn't going to stop a bullet. Need to defend yourself and hope for the best outcome. By the time the police show up..its all over. Sorry dude. You tried to do it right, but it didn't matter.

Bathia_Mapes: While I think the judge was wrong to deny an order of protection, even if he she had, that wouldn't have stopped the guy's ex-wife from killing him.

Even if the judge was a man I don't think the outcome would have been different.

However, if the roles were reversed I'd bet a lot of money the order would have been approved by the judge (male or female).

There is quite a double standard when it comes to things like divorces, domestic abuse, and similar situations.

Too bad the deceased guys family will be unable to sue the judge for gross incompetence and whatnot.

Uchiha_Cycliste: Bathia_Mapes: While I think the judge was wrong to deny an order of protection, even if he had, that wouldn't have stopped the guy's ex-wife from killing him.

Unless she violated the protection order before this and was jailed.

QFT

What? Women can be psychos too? Guess Montana is too old fashioned.

Depending on there she shot him..

Good job Your Honor! A Man can't possibly be threatened by a Woman!

Uchiha_Cycliste: Bathia_Mapes: While I think the judge was wrong to deny an order of protection, even if he had, that wouldn't have stopped the guy's ex-wife from killing him.

Unless she violated the protection order before this and was jailed.

Yeah, that's kinda the point of restraining orders - not only do you stop prevent abuse, you can jail an abuser on a minor crime and stop them from escalating to more serious ones. People usually don't just start murdering out of the blue; odds are, the ex-wife worked herself up to the ol' double-homicide with stalking, vandalism, threats and so on.

Similar thing happened to a friend of mine's sister, though it was with an ex-boyfriend. He threatened her on multiple occasions, but since he hadn't actually committed a violent act yet, the police refused to step in and do anything. She insisted that he was dangerous, but I guess there just wasn't anything that could be legally done (?).

Anyway, he finally got around to committing a violent act - he killed her and then himself.

Bathia_Mapes: While I think the judge was wrong to deny an order of protection, even if he had, that wouldn't have stopped the guy's ex-wife from killing him.

You know how I know you didn't read the article?

So, obviously the judge will lose her position due to this failure, correct? This is awful and I feel bad for this guy because I understand well what he was going through.

JonnyG: So, obviously the judge will lose her position due to this failure, correct?

Sure. Just like all those bankers lost their positions after they completely tanked the economy!

Meritocracy only really means anything if you're one of the proles.

jermadem: Similar thing happened to a friend of mine's sister, though it was with an ex-boyfriend. He threatened her on multiple occasions, but since he hadn't actually committed a violent act yet, the police refused to step in and do anything. She insisted that he was dangerous, but I guess there just wasn't anything that could be legally done (?).

Anyway, he finally got around to committing a violent act - he killed her and then himself.

That's really sad. I do not understand why the courts do not issue restraining/protection orders in situations such as these where there is a *potential* for escalation based on previous behaviors. We can argue all day about whether or not such orders would have actually prevented anything, but what is the harm?

What a psycho woman from Montana may look like:

Mattyb710: Bathia_Mapes: While I think the judge was wrong to deny an order of protection, even if he she had, that wouldn't have stopped the guy's ex-wife from killing him.

Even if the judge was a man I don't think the outcome would have been different.

However, if the roles were reversed I'd bet a lot of money the order would have been approved by the judge (male or female).

There is quite a double standard when it comes to things like divorces, domestic abuse, and similar situations.

If a man had thrown a woman's laptop down a set of stairs, he would be indefinitely restrained not just from stalking his wife, but from any contact with her or the kids whatsoever. He would be required to attend anger management classes, ordered to pay a punitive child support award designed to prevent him from getting legal help, and jailed at the slightest infraction.

Restraining order

The fact that the woman destroyed a laptop computer by throwing it down the stairs should have been a clue as to the insanity of the wife of the man that was murdered. The judge really needs to take a few days off and judge herself.

bugontherug: Mattyb710: Bathia_Mapes: While I think the judge was wrong to deny an order of protection, even if he she had, that wouldn't have stopped the guy's ex-wife from killing him.

Even if the judge was a man I don't think the outcome would have been different.

However, if the roles were reversed I'd bet a lot of money the order would have been approved by the judge (male or female).

There is quite a double standard when it comes to things like divorces, domestic abuse, and similar situations.

If a man had thrown a woman's laptop down a set of stairs, he would be indefinitely restrained not just from stalking his wife, but from any contact with her or the kids whatsoever. He would be required to attend anger management classes, ordered to pay a punitive child support award designed to prevent him from getting legal help, and jailed at the slightest infraction.

In a lot of states, yes.

Maybe not Montana.

sadly typical domestic violence. A male judge might've recognized the crazy in time to save this guy.

Not much to the story though; I was more interested in the sidebar stories like "Bowhunter dies after poking bear".

Applauds.

The hearings for protection orders should be conducted without any awareness of the gender of the involved parties.

As should the trial for murder when those orders are ignored.

Then we can all bask in the warm glow of gender equality (new window) together.

Consider this a divorce.....

/hot

Relatively Obscure
Bathia_Mapes: While I think the judge was wrong to deny an order of protection, even if he had, that wouldn't have stopped the guy's ex-wife from killing him.

Yeah, it's not exactly a bulletproof force field

True, an order of protection is not a bulletproof force field, so why not do away with them entirely? Because they are proven to have a deterrent effect. Even if granted maybe the guy would still be dead, but we'll never know, will we? I hope someone will post the follow-up stories about the Judge's clear defeat in the next election and the deceased's family's lawsuit against the state/municipality.

McCarter revised the ruling, writing: "Little personal danger or threat involved."

kronicfeld: ....odds are the original ruling would have gone exactly the same way if the genders had been reversed

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Nice one, I needed a laugh today.

What about the woman she shot? No sympathy?

zzrhardy: kronicfeld: ....odds are the original ruling would have gone exactly the same way if the genders had been reversed

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Nice one, I needed a laugh today.

Don't let anything interfere with your victimization orgy.

So will the judge be indicted as an accessory to the murder?

Oh, wait, Judicial Immunity, government has no duty to protect you, etc., and all that

Pic of the wife (new window)

I'd like to see the percentages protection orders granted by the judge in the instances of men seeking the protection versus versus women seeking the protection.

If indeed the judge has granted a higher percentage of protection orders to women than men then my sincere hope is District Judge Dorothy McCarter is diagnosed with the most painful, most severe form of cancer and lives a long a life as possible.

/fark judges like this

Why is that my state--you know, the one where we're all supposed to be backwards gun nuts--seems to be light years ahead in some matters? Dads routinely get custody of the kids. restraining orders are routinely granted--in fact, it's figured that divorcing couples are just as well kept apart, unless it's to interfere with visitation, and then rules are put in place to make visitation happen anyway (you have to exchange the kids at the police station, stuff like that.)

I know this because my lawyers told me this, and because I had two restraining orders on my ex, both of which were granted with no problem (even after the police did their neighborly duty and covered up a serious domestic abuse incident right next door to their station.) Why should two exes have to get together at all, if they've both hired lawyers and the divorce is underway?

I was pretty pissed off when I read this story---it is EASY to get a restraining order in this state. There's no reason why a divorcing couple or two people who have broken up should need to contact each other. If it's already so ugly that one of them is asking for one, they can communicate through lawyers

Not that this probably would have stopped the lady anyway. My ex violated the order with impunity. it just makes the penalties harsher if you get beat up again after one has been granted......

I saw more farked-up than this stuff in family court, maybe that's why this pisses me off so much. And you can't do a thing about it.

The legal system isn't there to protect you, it's there to sort things out after the bodies are cold.

gothelder: Too bad the deceased guys family will be unable to sue the judge for gross incompetence and whatnot.

Wrongful death lawsuit maybe? Only possible angle I really see...

/judge should be disbarred
//dude should of had a gun himself if she was stalking him...

muzzrphochr: bugontherug: Mattyb710: Bathia_Mapes: While I think the judge was wrong to deny an order of protection, even if he she had, that wouldn't have stopped the guy's ex-wife from killing him.

Even if the judge was a man I don't think the outcome would have been different.

However, if the roles were reversed I'd bet a lot of money the order would have been approved by the judge (male or female).

There is quite a double standard when it comes to things like divorces, domestic abuse, and similar situations.

If a man had thrown a woman's laptop down a set of stairs, he would be indefinitely restrained not just from stalking his wife, but from any contact with her or the kids whatsoever. He would be required to attend anger management classes, ordered to pay a punitive child support award designed to prevent him from getting legal help, and jailed at the slightest infraction.

Agreed! About a year ago, during an argument, a buddy of mine smashed his own computer which was in his own home that she moved into with him and was charged with mischief, some sort of domestic violence and ordered to attend anger management classes. She ended up with the home and everything else.

Sounds like your buddy was from Michigan...

Chalk one up for freedom-loving Montana. When my ex filed for divorce in Kansas, a restraining order against me was part of the package deal. And I wasn't the crazy one.

Bit'O'Gristle Bathia_Mapes: While I think the judge was wrong to deny an order of protection, even if he had, that wouldn't have stopped the guy's ex-wife from killing him.

I agree....the police and a piece of paper isn't going to stop a bullet. Need to defend yourself and hope for the best outcome. By the time the police show up..its all over. Sorry dude. You tried to do it right, but it didn't matter.

Unfortunately, our system doesn't prosecute people for crimes until after they commit them. If id did, we would all have to start pulling our pants up in front of the racist police.

At a minimum, a protection/restraining order plays an important role in creating a paper trail should the violence escalate and/or the victim have to defend themselves or battle for custody of children.

The article said he was seeking a protection order as opposed to a restraining order. (There is a difference in most states.) I wouldn't have granted a protection order either based on the somebody throwing a laptop down the stairs. A restraining order perhaps, because those require less burden of proof as it is a civil order and isn't immediately enforceable (no arrest) in the case of a violation. The party has to go back to court after a violation to ask the judge for greater protection. If the laws are similar to most places, a protection order is more serious and therefore requires greater burden of proof. Judges have to be careful about granting them erroneously because they do go on a person's record and will impact future job opportunities and the accused usually has to surrender firearms while the protection order is in effect. Their future ability to get a permit to carry a concealed firearm can be revoked forever. Consider the consequences if the accused was actually the victim.