They played pretty good the first half. It's when Klinsmann decided to start experimenting in the second half when things seemed to fall apart.

That's okay, they're friendlies. Figure out the problems now, not when it counts.

Geez people. We did see some positives last night. If we're playing like this in WCQ (vs. Guatemala, Jamaica, and Haiti/Antigua & Barbuda), yes then there's every right to panic. His system is going to take some time to get used to. Donovan and Dempsey still havent been on the same field together under Klinsmann, plus we're having more chances than we used to (now if only we could finish, we'd be in business).

Two Dogs Farking: USA Soccer is totally overrated. There, I said it.

ftfy

well in addition to changing philosophy they are going to turn over a good portion of the roster, such growing pains are to be expected, yes we could have performed better in short term friendlies but getting past the 2nd round in world cup action would still be unlikely.

not that i think klinsmann will do better, i just dont think the highest percentile of athletes want to play soccer in this country.

18 shots for the US compared to 5 for Ecuador. Can't blame the coach when the players can't finish. Not to mention the best US players weren't playing.

But basically it comes down to the fact that the best US athletes aren't playing soccer.

Five games played and we haven't won the world cup yet? How is this possible! Fire Him!

Isn't 2 goals in 5 games normal for soccer.

/and ties, ties, TIES

2 goals in 5 games, why the scoring explosion? They must be juicing.

Gonz: I've actually got a bit of hope that Jozy will improve greatly, now that he's playing in Holland.

He's been doing pretty well for AZ, actually. Scored a few goals in the Europa League too.

Oh, the men's team, not the actual U.S. soccer team.

I thought the team looks much better under Klinsmann. We can actually string together some passes now, the players don't stand around as much doing nothing when we don't have the ball, etc. Our finishing is pretty dire currently, but these are friendlies and he's using the friendlies for what they are supposed to be used for. Trying new players and different things and learning new things about our side.

At least we aren't doing the Bob Bradley strategy of give up two (stupid) goals in the first half and then try to claw our way back to a decent result by punting the ball down the field as soon as we get it and praying for the best.



And honestly Ecuador are a bit underrated. The reason why you don't see them in a world cup is because to qualify they have to go through Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, etc. They have players who play in some of the top leagues in the world.

The US is a bit overrated since they gain their FIFA ranking by smashing little CONCACAF island countries that have less total population than most US cities. I don't think anyone outside of the US would claim we are better than some of the European/South American teams who rarely qualify for WCs because they have some actual competition to qualify against.


Anyway, I think people are overreacting to these losses. They are friendlies, not to mention just about everything from tactics and gameplans to players are changing since the last coach. It's something we have to transition into. We can already see some of the positives, and if you can do that, then that's more important than winning merely just winning a friendly without seeing anything positive or learning anything new.

USMNT looked good last night, despite the score (FFFUU TIM REAM). Not spectacular but they came out swinging. Ecuador has some speedy motherfarkers, but even then they needed a farking amateur mistake to score.

The Honduras match could have easily been 4-0, if not for Fernando Torres-esque shooting and CONCACAF refs being assholes yet again and denying Deuce's goal.

I was a Bradley apologist but I'm not writing Klinsmann off yet. He's trying out different formations... I like Edu but M Bradley is better in the DM role. And bring back Freddy Adu as long as you're experimenting, Herr Jurgen!

It is far too early to make any type of reasonable judgement of the Klinsmann era. The team looked better in the first half, but without someone who can finish on a constant basis, the results won't change much. IMO, Gooch looked strong in the back and it appears he has fully recovered from his knee injury which is good news.

Unfortunately, Klinsmann is going to have to work a miracle just for the USA to be competitive against Mexico. IMO, it will be many, many years before we are competitive with our neighbors to the south.....

Meanwhile, Canada could only manage a draw against freakin Puerto Rico last night.

Death to the CSA!!! A thousand monkeys on a thousand typewriters could do a better job of running soccer in Canada over those good ole boys

UncleStumpy

As a DC United fan, can I just say, Thank you for DeRo :)

jpo2269: IMO, it will be many, many years before we are competitive with our neighbors to the south.....

Unavailable for comment:

The US boys played a bit too spread out. Should have stayed a bit tighter. They lost the ball multiple times on bad long passes through traffic. too many long balls forward that were lost. Beckerman was guilty a few times on both counts...
Playing the ball back is fine and good but at some point you've got to attack a bit more.
Ecuador seemed quicker on their feet and playing forward.

Once in a while you'll see the US team playing S American ball... two touch, short passing... Rare though.

TheKnownUniverse [TotalFark] 2011-10-12 08:30:14 PM

I like Edu but M Bradley is better in the DM role.

No, M Bradley is pretty horrible at the DM role actually, and we conceded so many stupid goals when he was forced into that position. People seemed to forget his defensive errors because he'd go and do- something amazingly offensively.

M. Bradley is best in role where he can be just roam around freely and make those runs in behind our strikers. Edu doesn't offer as much going forward but he offers a bit more than M Bradley when we don't have the ball. Beckerman just isn't made for this level.



Our defensive problems are slowly being solved and tactically we have vastly improved since the Bob Bradley days. We still lack an out and out goalscorer. Someone with that killer instinct. It's pretty much "let's hope Altidore gets playing time and gains some confidence in himself" Altidore should be a little more selfish I think. Strikers are supposed to be selfish. He's too nice as well. Guy like that isn't going to bother the top defenders in the world. We need like the American version of Hulk.

Klinsmann can't create a striker who finishes (and is not going to be >35 years old at the next WC, either), in 5 games.

/always wondered what pseudonym he used at the pickup soccer games he played in CA
//pretend it was 'Hans Gruber'
///obligatory suck it, Mexico comment.

While I'm disappointed by the results, I'm not ready to give up on Klinsmann yet.

Have we ever had a pure goal scorer? I still have hopes for Jozy and Agudelo. Perhaps Brek Shea can make a name for himself too but he needs to be playing in Europe. Also, there is a 17 year old American kid in the Liverpool youth system that was loaned out this year to Fortuna Dusseldorf named Villyan Bijev. I don't know if he is getting play time though.

Lt. Col. Angus: jpo2269: IMO, it will be many, many years before we are competitive with our neighbors to the south.....

Unavailable for comment:

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The Hugo Sanchez era is over. ;)

That said, I have hopes for Klinsmann. We almost didn't make it to the last World Cup thanks to Hugo Sanchez/Sven Goran. These upcoming qualifiers should be the most electric we've seen in awhile. I can't wait!

/very scared of Brek Shea. Guy's a BEAST.

TWO MONTHS HAVE GONE BY AND WE AREN'T COMPLETELY DOMINANT YET?!?!?!?!

WHAARRBGLBGLGBLAGLWWARARH!

Lt. Col. Angus 2011-10-12 09:06:53 PM

jpo2269: IMO, it will be many, many years before we are competitive with our neighbors to the south.....

Unavailable for comment:

Obviously you didn't watch the Gold Cup final, the Mexicans are light years ahead of the USMNT at this point.

jpo2269: Obviously you didn't watch the Gold Cup final, the Mexicans are light years ahead of the USMNT at this point.

Except for the part where we were leading until Steve Cherundolo got hurt. And we played without our best forward. People overlook those two minor points.



I really hope Mexico fans aren't hanging their hats on beating Troy Perkins, Brian Ching and the C-team all stars. Most of those players haven't appeared for the US since. Our ACTUAL team was off finishing second in the Confederations Cup that summer.

The US and Mexico are 1a and 1b, depending on which way the wind is blowing and where the game is being played. It's been that way since the early 2000s. Mexico is probably 1a right now, but a top 11 vs. top 11 game at a neutral site favors neither team.

jjmartin: #2 on the right of the defense (Cherundelo?) was trying to push up into the attack, but didn't really have the skill to pull it off. The guy who let in the goal was an obv. mole who won't make the big boy team.

We really could use fullbacks with better ball skills, like converted midfielders or something. But, the group in the first half did defend well.

Cherundolo has been joining the attack from the RB spot since he locked it down before the 2006 WC. His ball skills are fine. My biggest issue was how poorly he dealt with speed of their guys on the outside. He's getting up their in age, so it's not exactly surprising.

We have a men's team too?





Blatant hijack attempt.

michaelgvh: Blatant hijack attempt.

I'll allow it.

Back to an argument I had on here a year or so ago.

They don't have the talent.. at all to compete with the top 10-15 teams in the world. Their top players probably wouldn't even be selected, yet alone start, yet alone star for any serious world cup team.


You'll see somebody make a nice move and get some space in the offensive end (I refuse to say "final third") and they look to make a pass and there's nobody making a run, nobody in the box. It's like they don't know how to make themselves available for a pass.

I also like when they try to pass it around, keep posession, and within 5 passes, they've passed themselves backwards into a spot where a defender is stuck with the ball in a tight spot and needs to just boot the ball upfield.

MugzyBrown: They don't have the talent.. at all to compete with the top 10-15 teams in the world. Their top players probably wouldn't even be selected, yet alone start, yet alone star for any serious world cup team.

Welcome to being teams 10-60(ish) in the FIFA rankings. People were all up in arms when we lost to Panama..... but there's a substantial gap between #1 (Spain) and #11 Greece or #3 (Germany) and #13 (Russia.)

Between #15 (Japan) and #55 (Bulgaria)? #31 (USA) and #60 (Ukraine)? Notsomuch.

This was my biggest complaint with the FIRE BRADLEY!!!!1!!ONE!!! crowd. He did pretty well with what talent he had. As time passes, I think people will see that.

I think the jury is DEFINITELY still out with Klinsmann. For the US' sake, I hope he can get it right. We don't have the talent to survive a SGE episode, like Mexico did.

That fact that he can't tell that Bradley is light years better than Beckerman alarms me.

I'm reserving judgement until we reach the qualifiers next year. If his teams look like they do now in that initial round of qualifiers, and we drop points to ANY of those teams (looking like Jamaica, Haiti and Guatemala), I'm getting the torch and pitchfork.

Lt. Col. Angus: That fact that he can't tell that Bradley is light years better than Beckerman alarms me.

I don't see that at all.

They're both equally stinky in their own ways.

Their midfield play is awful all around.. like most of their back line play.

Lt. Col. Angus: MugzyBrown: Welcome to being teams 10-60(ish) in the FIFA rankings. People were all up in arms when we lost to Panama..... but there's a substantial gap between #1 (Spain) and #11 Greece or #3 (Germany) and #13 (Russia.)

Between #15 (Japan) and #55 (Bulgaria)? #31 (USA) and #60 (Ukraine)? Notsomuch.

This is a huge point, and is something that Klinnsman has said he would love to address, and one of the reasons that US soccer has more or less given him the keys to everything, not just the team but the youth programs as well.

Since the true top level athletes in the US gravitate to other sports like football, basketball, baseball, track etc. it means that the group we pull from is dimiished not only athletically but also as competition, a great athlete on the USMNT may never have faced a top caliber athlete/player on his way up the ranks so they spend their time like a man among boys, don't need to get strong on fundamentals or understanding of the game because they have always been able to run circles around the people they have played, then they hit national team and need to learn those things because playing Spain is alot different than playing North Carolina traveling soccer all-stars.

I am actually interested in seeing what Klinnsman does to the whole framework of the USMNT youth system, he brought up the fact that top athletes go to the other sports, that we need to turn soccer from a white middle/upper class sport to a national sport by getting more presence in the inner cities and rural areas, that the USMNT need to help sponsor true academies and that they need even more visibility. All of them are true statements. If he has actually been given the full riegn i would like to see what efforts he makes to lay a foundation in what would at a minimum be a 10 year project.

The one thing that is becoming clear for the USMNT is we desperately need a striker, Agudelo shows some promise but i think he can really use some time in Europe being developed. Jozy looks like he is on the verge of being a solid striker, not a star but certainly one that can produce. That said thru 5 games it looks like the USMNT would benefit from having the 7th or 8th english striker. Jay Boythroyd, Jermaine Beckford, Carlton Cole, Kevin Davies all could have helped us a great deal converting on some of the chances.

Baron Underbite: that we need to turn soccer from a white middle/upper class sport to a national sport by getting more presence in the inner cities and rural areas

My wife from Argentina finds this to be hillarious. In every other country soccer is more of the working man's sport, where as in the US it's the preppy douche sport.

Baron Underbite: Agudelo shows some promise but i think he can really use some time in Europe being developed. Jozy looks like he is on the verge of being a solid striker, not a star but certainly one that can produce.

All of the US strikers suffer from the same problem: They lack the ability to really make their own opportunities. Couple that with the fact the midfield sucks and can't put them in good positions, the result is 2 goals in 5 games.

I'm not too worried at this point. It's not necessarily his fault that he's still trying to find an actual scoring threat. He's still trying to get a feel for all the players available to him. The problem the other night was a couple of midfielders were giving the ball away too easily with errant passes. When that happens, it's pretty hard to get anything going near the other team's box.

Baron Underbite: Since the true top level athletes in the US gravitate to other sports like football, basketball, baseball, track etc., etc., etc.

This will change with time. Just like the best athletes all played baseball in the 30s and 40s, as playing pro football and baseball became a viable way to make money as an athlete, more athletes gravitated toward it. This will happen with soccer here, it just takes time. We've barely had twenty years as an ACTUAL soccer nation (assuming the late 80s as the "birth" of US Soccer as we know it.) As salaries and endorsements increase, the athletes will follow. There's so much more exposure to soccer in general, and American soccer players now. My teacher friends tell me that every school has Landon Donovan, Tim Howard, Jozy Altidore posters on the wall like we had Michael Jordan posters when I was in school. There sure as hell was no Paul Caliguiri poster when I was growing up.

Baron Underbite: I am actually interested in seeing what Klinnsman does to the whole framework of the USMNT youth system, etc. etc.

I have no issue with Klinsmann as an administrator, building the whole of US Soccer. It's something that's sorely needed, and I hope he can succeed. I have very sincere reservations about his actual game managing ability (which primarily comes from his extremely limited success record as an actual manager, as well as the lineup decisions and in-game "adjustments" that I've seen so far.) I don't really care if the Senior National Team manager is "soccer Jesus." That's not his role, IMO. It's taking the talent at his disposal, and getting it to win games.

While he may be able to make HUGE strides forward as far as youth and overall program development, if he Svens us out of qualifying for the World Cup with poor game management, he'll erase YEARS of progress. We saw in the Gold Cup that the talent gap in CONCACAF is closing. I hope that it doesn't become an issue, and I hope that the senior leadership on the team doesn't allow it, but it concerns me.

This quote from Philipp Lahm's book (which must be taken with a grain of salt, of course) gives me the heebee jeebees.

"We practiced little more than fitness. Tactical things were neglected. The players had to get together before [the games] to discuss how we wanted to play. After six or eight weeks, all players knew it wouldn't work with Klinsmann. The rest of the season was damage limitation."

Lt. Col. Angus 2011-10-13 09:11:53 AM

jpo2269: Obviously you didn't watch the Gold Cup final, the Mexicans are light years ahead of the USMNT at this point.

Except for the part where we were leading until Steve Cherundolo got hurt. And we played without our best forward. People overlook those two minor points.



I really hope Mexico fans aren't hanging their hats on beating Troy Perkins, Brian Ching and the C-team all stars. Most of those players haven't appeared for the US since. Our ACTUAL team was off finishing second in the Confederations Cup that summer.

The US and Mexico are 1a and 1b, depending on which way the wind is blowing and where the game is being played. It's been that way since the early 2000s. Mexico is probably 1a right now, but a top 11 vs. top 11 game at a neutral site favors neither team.

You are cetainly entitled to your opinions. The US going up 2-0 was completely against the form of play and I for one did not feel comfortable even with a 2 goal lead. This year, Mexico has won the U-17 WC and finished third in the U-20 WC, which will certainly lay a strong foundation for future years. Like I said, you are entitled to your opinion, but as I see it, we are no where even close to being competitive with the Mexicans, not now and it doesn't look good moving forward.

but as I see it, we are no where even close to being competitive with the Mexicans, not now and it doesn't look good moving forward.

The US can't compete with Mexico right now, nor can they compete with most of Europe and most of S. America.

Honestly a ranking of 25-35 is about right for them.

jpo2269: Lt. Col. Angus 2011-10-13 09:11:53 AM

jpo2269: Obviously you didn't watch the Gold Cup final, the Mexicans are light years ahead of the USMNT at this point.

Except for the part where we were leading until Steve Cherundolo got hurt. And we played without our best forward. People overlook those two minor points.



I really hope Mexico fans aren't hanging their hats on beating Troy Perkins, Brian Ching and the C-team all stars. Most of those players haven't appeared for the US since. Our ACTUAL team was off finishing second in the Confederations Cup that summer.

The US and Mexico are 1a and 1b, depending on which way the wind is blowing and where the game is being played. It's been that way since the early 2000s. Mexico is probably 1a right now, but a top 11 vs. top 11 game at a neutral site favors neither team.

You are cetainly entitled to your opinions. The US going up 2-0 was completely against the form of play and I for one did not feel comfortable even with a 2 goal lead. This year, Mexico has won the U-17 WC and finished third in the U-20 WC, which will certainly lay a strong foundation for future years. Like I said, you are entitled to your opinion, but as I see it, we are no where even close to being competitive with the Mexicans, not now and it doesn't look good moving forward.

True, but then again, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, and Switzerland all have won U17 World Cups, nobody is going to mistake them for future powers anytime soon.

jpo2269: The US going up 2-0 was completely against the form of play and I for one did not feel comfortable even with a 2 goal lead.

It's called the RUN of play, not the FORM of play. But please, enlighten me a little more.

MugzyBrown: The US can't compete with Mexico right now, nor can they compete with most of Europe and most of S. America.

Honestly a ranking of 25-35 is about right for them.

These two things don't match up. We can't compete with the TOP teams in Europe or South America. But other than Brazil, Italy, Spain, Holland, etc.... who EXPECTS to beat those type of teams when they play them? Sweden? Japan? Egypt? Of course not.

But do I expect the US to win (or at least be damned competitive) against Paraguay? Ecuador? Peru? Denmark? Ireland? Norway? Slovakia?

Certainly, and we have been competitive with and beaten (and moreso each year) those teams for the last 10 years.

I think a lot of what guides the US fanbase's group-think (apart from utter stupidity) is the growth that we HAVE seen in ten years. We went from last place in the 1998 World Cup and Cobi Jones saving our ass from not even qualifying in a driving rainstorm back in 2000-01ish (in Grenada? Jamaica? where the hell was that?...) to beating Spain and trading punches with Brazil in 2009, winning CONCACAF qualifying AND our World Cup group and everyone EXPECTING that we beat (arguably) the best African team in 2010, and wanting to fire the coach when we didn't. (run-on sentence..... sue me....)

Of course that kind of growth is unsustainable.

Look at the US rosters from the 1994-1998-2002 World Cups, and the level those players were playing at, and then look at the 2010 roster. The difference in the clubs our players play it is quite remarkable. Now that we're placing more and more players at higher levels, we have to wait for them to become "seasoned."

I firmly believe that when we've been playing higher level soccer for 100 years like Holland, England and Brazil have, we'll be as dominant as they are. Or in England's case, as dominant as they feel they should be.

We are actually VERY good for the infant soccer nation we are. We'll get to where people "expect" us to be. But there is no "magic formula" other than patience. I've been here since the early 90s. Pull up a chair and wait. The view is great.

Right now... our defense is good enough for our side. No we don't have a Ramos/Pique/Puyol in our defense, but compared to- some of the back fours we have put out, what we can potentially have is pretty much gold by comparison. We have good fullbacks, potentially one great center back if he stays fit, and really, it's just a matter of finding someone for that other center back spot.

Our midfield is TOO competitive. Edu, Williams Torres, Bradley, Holden, and Shea will probably be our best options for midfielders. Torres and Bradley are probably the two that should absolutely be starters. Torres has great passing, great vision, he can tackle, and he's got a rocket of a shot. Probably hands down our best passer. Shea has been hit or miss for me. Williams was quite impressive but made a few mistakes. Edu is decent, nothing really stands out to me, but he plays a position where players normally don't stand out. Either way we have a defensive midfielder, we really need a true midfield destroyer. Most of our players are too nice. Where's the American version of Pepe/Van Bommel/De Jong/Diarra etc?

I think Dempsey and Donovan will be way past it by 2014. It's time to give the new generation a shot.

As for strikers, our two best guys do everything except score.

Another thing I'd like to point out, our corners and free kicks were farking awful against Ecuador.

As for Bob Bradley, people didn't like him because of a couple things. He was pretty stubborn in his player selections, and it almost seemed like he'd purposely put out horrible positions when everyone was like "omg u need to play this guy" just as a way of giving us all the middle finger. His best moves tactically were usually just fixing mistakes he made. He relied too much on the team pulling miracle goals out of their asses. And the team under him basically couldn't even complete four passes before just punting the ball down the field from the back.

Under Jurgen, you already see us keeping possession more. We are avoiding giving away really cheap goals constantly, and we are trying out tons of new potential great players (actually giving them serious chances) and we have been learning plenty about the team, what we have that works, what we still need, etc. The only thing lacking is finishing, and as I said before, at this point we haven't had to play a serious game yet with out best possible lineup and all our key starters, and we are pretty much going to see if Altidore gains confidence to be that go to go for goals for us.