If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Yahoo) Asinine Original Tappan Zee bridge...80.8 Million...New Tappan Zee bridge....5.2 billion Subby Figuring out the inflation rate/index thing....impossible   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 165
More: Asinine  
•       •       •

11508 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Oct 2011 at 7:06 PM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»   |    Get this fabulous T-Shirt and impress the methane out of your friends! shirt it!



165 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all
 
2011-10-12 03:56:24 PM
In 2008, several designs for a new bridge were unveiled, with costs estimated at the time at $9 billion to $16 billion depending on which mass transit options were included. The possibilities ranged from upgraded bus service to light rail to an east-west commuter rail line that would link several existing north-south routes.

Scope creep, the joy of every bureaucrat.
 
2011-10-12 04:01:44 PM
DarthBrooks: Scope creep, the joy of every bureaucrat.

Speak for yourself, m'laddo.
 
2011-10-12 04:02:09 PM
At least Chris Christie can't veto this farking thing.

/but who needs an upgraded infrastructure anyway?
 
2011-10-12 04:02:23 PM
$5 billion. For a bridge. Yeah, it's big and stuff, but damn that's a lot of graft.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2011-10-12 04:09:16 PM
I'm surprised the Obama administration permitted removing the transit component.

Deterioration has set in, and maintaining it has been costing the state up to $100 million a year.

That's a lot, but $100 million per year forever is cheaper than $5.2 billion now.
 
2011-10-12 04:19:00 PM
ZAZ: I'm surprised the Obama administration permitted removing the transit component.

Deterioration has set in, and maintaining it has been costing the state up to $100 million a year.

That's a lot, but $100 million per year forever is cheaper than $5.2 billion now.


It's 100 million this year. It's not like the price of maintaining a bridge is about to go down.
 
2011-10-12 04:19:22 PM
ZAZ: That's a lot, but $100 million per year forever is cheaper than $5.2 billion now.

NotSureIfSeriousAndIgnorantOfDiscountRatesOrJoking.jpg
 
2011-10-12 04:22:04 PM
Suddenly the toll doesn't seem so high.
 
2011-10-12 04:23:34 PM
The Tappan Zee scares the hell out of me every time I cross it. It's almost a decade past its expected lifespan and its foundation was made out of untreated, unpreserved wood(!) which is starting to break off and float to the surface every once in a while. That bridge is an accident waiting to happen, and when it goes, it could be catastrophic, considering the amount of traffic that goes over it between Rockland and Westchester daily.
 
2011-10-12 04:35:52 PM
ZAZ: That's a lot, but $100 million per year forever is cheaper than $5.2 billion now.

yes, the new bridge will probably require no maintenance at all
 
2011-10-12 04:48:12 PM
New York was jealous of the Big Dig, so..
 
2011-10-12 05:17:34 PM
The bridge is over 3 miles long, that's part of why replacing it is so high. Also unless they tear down the existing bridge before building the new one, which I don't think is an option, you're looking at a lot of work on existing infrastructure to link it to the new bridge and a lot of work getting things ready for the bridge to be built, like piers and stuff.
 
2011-10-12 05:26:07 PM
RexTalionis: The Tappan Zee scares the hell out of me every time I cross it. It's almost a decade past its expected lifespan and its foundation was made out of untreated, unpreserved wood(!) which is starting to break off and float to the surface every once in a while. That bridge is an accident waiting to happen, and when it goes, it could be catastrophic, considering the amount of traffic that goes over it between Rockland and Westchester daily.

You get a great view of the water through all the holes though.
 
2011-10-12 05:28:22 PM
Barbigazi: RexTalionis: The Tappan Zee scares the hell out of me every time I cross it. It's almost a decade past its expected lifespan and its foundation was made out of untreated, unpreserved wood(!) which is starting to break off and float to the surface every once in a while. That bridge is an accident waiting to happen, and when it goes, it could be catastrophic, considering the amount of traffic that goes over it between Rockland and Westchester daily.

You get a great view of the water through all the holes though.


If I keep driving on it, my chances of getting a great view of the water from underneath the surface increase.
 
2011-10-12 05:58:58 PM
I don't mind, so long as it still gives unfettered access to Rollen Zee hay.
 
2011-10-12 06:19:44 PM
So, Republican values would include letting bridges collapse instead of paying for a new one?

www.constructionlawtoday.com

Oh, right. I guess it is.

/hot
 
2011-10-12 06:45:25 PM
Tappan Zee Bridge? I've heard of people having sex with picnic tables, even cars; but an entire bridge??
 
2011-10-12 07:08:46 PM
Kind of a meaningless comparison unless they're making an exact replica.
 
2011-10-12 07:11:48 PM
Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: ZAZ: That's a lot, but $100 million per year forever is cheaper than $5.2 billion now.

NotSureIfSeriousAndIgnorantOfDiscountRatesOrJoking.jpg


Yeah I'm not sure either - I suspect "IgnorantOfDiscountRates"
 
2011-10-12 07:12:33 PM
fusillade762: Tappan Zee Bridge? I've heard of people having sex with picnic tables, even cars; but an entire bridge??

Vell zee Germans are veird people.
 
2011-10-12 07:14:09 PM
GAT_00: So, Republican values would include letting bridges collapse instead of paying for a new one?

[www.constructionlawtoday.com image 299x450]

Oh, right. I guess it is.

/hot


Pretty sure most of the political establishment in MN is democrats, it being a blue state and all.
 
2011-10-12 07:14:14 PM
The general rule of thumb I was given in the insurance world is assume that prices double every 10 years over one's lifetime, which would mean expected price after 50 years would be about 1.2 billion IF the bridge was built to be an exact replica, built to the same standards and of the same materials.

According to that rule of thumb, we might project that this bridge is costing twice as much as the original ($162 million).
 
2011-10-12 07:14:18 PM
Years ago the man who bought my father's company rented a window that overlooked the bridge. He had a remote hookup to a telescope mounted there and would check out the traffic to see if he should drive or work from home. Apparently he didn't like the radio reports. This day and age I'm sure a simple webcam would be better.
 
2011-10-12 07:14:29 PM
cf.mp-cdn.net
 
2011-10-12 07:15:58 PM
RexTalionis: The Tappan Zee scares the hell out of me every time I cross it. .

Try the Chesapeake Bridge Tunnel sometime.
 
2011-10-12 07:16:51 PM
And this is what is known as tappan zee ass.
images5.cpcache.com
 
2011-10-12 07:17:04 PM
RexTalionis: The Tappan Zee scares the hell out of me every time I cross it. It's almost a decade past its expected lifespan and its foundation was made out of untreated, unpreserved wood(!) which is starting to break off and float to the surface every once in a while. That bridge is an accident waiting to happen, and when it goes, it could be catastrophic, considering the amount of traffic that goes over it between Rockland and Westchester daily.

Remember Mianus!
 
2011-10-12 07:17:44 PM
exvaxman: Years ago the man who bought my father's company rented a window that overlooked the bridge

You can rent a window?
 
2011-10-12 07:17:47 PM
These people are all northerners, who the fark cares if they die?
 
2011-10-12 07:17:53 PM
Not just inflation. New requirements for labor, safety, environment, permits, greater traffic flow, materials, monitoring systems, more confined working areas, utility relocations, more concern to the traveling public (detours, traffic control, public announcements, public relations) and quite a few other things that they did not have to worry about 60 years ago.
 
2011-10-12 07:19:11 PM
FTFA Comments

"to maihtain the old bridge cost 100 million a year? thats 273,972 just under a quarter million a day to maintain?"

273,972 just under a quarter million...

/Basic math
 
2011-10-12 07:21:15 PM
Bgman123: FTFA Comments

"to maihtain the old bridge cost 100 million a year? thats 273,972 just under a quarter million a day to maintain?"

273,972 just under a quarter million...

/Basic math


Hey there Mr. Elitist, not everyone on the internet has access to Google Calculator.
 
2011-10-12 07:22:02 PM
RexTalionis: The Tappan Zee scares the hell out of me every time I cross it. .....

Try it on a motorcycle.
 
2011-10-12 07:23:01 PM
A nice discussion here about replacement cost compared to original construction $$$$$ (by folks who appear to know something about making these comparisons):

Link (new window)
 
2011-10-12 07:23:36 PM
BenJammin: RexTalionis: The Tappan Zee scares the hell out of me every time I cross it. .....

Try it on a motorcycle.


Careful you could eject.
 
2011-10-12 07:24:10 PM
i56.tinypic.com

Solved.
 
2011-10-12 07:26:15 PM
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2009-09-26/local/17930843_1_tappan-zee -bridge-anne-scripps-douglas-james-scripps

Daughter of murdered newspaper heiress Anne Douglas Scripps jumps from Tappan Zee Bridge
BY LEO STANDORA AND JOE KEMP
DAILY NEWS WRITERS
Saturday, September 26, 2009

The daughter of a newspaper heiress jumped off the Tappan Zee Bridge nearly 16 years after her stepfather leaped from the span after beating her mother to death at their Bronxville estate, sources said.

Witnesses saw Anne Petrillo, 38, abandon her car on the Rockland County-bound side of the bridge, remove her clothes and jump into the Hudson River around 8 p.m. Thursday, sources said.

State police led the search for the woman, but the effort was called off Friday when conditions became too dangerous.
 
2011-10-12 07:27:42 PM
Oldiron_79: GAT_00: So, Republican values would include letting bridges collapse instead of paying for a new one?

[www.constructionlawtoday.com image 299x450]

Oh, right. I guess it is.

/hot

Pretty sure most of the political establishment in MN is democrats, it being a blue state and all.


Like Tim Pawlenty and Michelle Bachman?

Minnesota isn't as blue as you think.
 
2011-10-12 07:28:37 PM
Inflated union labor costs for NY is the reason.
 
2011-10-12 07:29:00 PM
Don't forget the additional 2.8 billion for the mob...err union bosses.
 
2011-10-12 07:30:03 PM
GAT_00: So, Republican values would include letting bridges collapse instead of paying for a new one?

[www.constructionlawtoday.com image 299x450]

Oh, right. I guess it is.

/hot


That bridge had design flaws dummy.
 
2011-10-12 07:33:12 PM
I tried to walk across that thing when I was a kid to visit friends in Terrytown.
The cops don't like people doing that.
 
2011-10-12 07:35:38 PM
bmr68: GAT_00: So, Republican values would include letting bridges collapse instead of paying for a new one?

[www.constructionlawtoday.com image 299x450]

Oh, right. I guess it is.

/hot

That bridge had design flaws dummy.


Shhh. He doesn't want facts. He wants to make the case fit the narrative in his head.
 
2011-10-12 07:37:35 PM
$42000 or so per inch if I pressed the keys on windows calculator properly. Criminal.

There are many reasons why America is failing, but the insane costs of getting relatively simple things done (bridges, while requiring expert engineers and designers of course, are still basically 1930s technology) is certainly near the top of the list.
 
2011-10-12 07:42:01 PM
5.2 billion? Yes, but, what is that in terms of meddling in other peoples civil wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen, all over the goddamned world .... one, two months, at best?
 
2011-10-12 07:42:18 PM
Dear moron subby:
Vehicles and trucks are a LOT bigger now.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2011-10-12 07:43:35 PM
Bomb Head Mohammed

A more useful figure is cost per lane mile. $5.2 billion divided by 8 lanes and 5 miles gives $130 million per lane-mile. That is close to the inflation-adjusted cost of the Big Dig.

5 miles = 3.5 miles of bridge plus 1.5 miles of new approaches. Season to taste.
 
2011-10-12 07:44:14 PM
HeadLever: Not just inflation. New requirements for labor, corruption, safety, union beak-wetting, environment, buying off the hardcore greens so they'll go biatch about Indian Point some more, permits, bribes for officials issuing the permits, greater traffic flow anywhere long as it leads out of New York, materials, materials for contractors' new driveways, monitoring systems, monitoring systems for the malfunctioning monitoring systems, more confined working areas, free food for the press so they don't start in with the Big Dig comparisons until there's too much money sunk into the project to stop, utility relocations, whistleblower relocations, more concern press releases to the traveling public (detours, traffic control, public announcements, public relations) (why are we paying that assistant press secretary $150,000 a year? Because she's banging a state senator whose vote we need) and quite a few other things that they did not have to worry about 60 years ago like Sharpton showing up to biatch that the inevitable $10 tolls are racist.

FTFY.
 
2011-10-12 07:47:29 PM
JohnAnnArbor: bmr68: GAT_00: So, Republican values would include letting bridges collapse instead of paying for a new one?

[www.constructionlawtoday.com image 299x450]

Oh, right. I guess it is.

/hot

That bridge had design flaws dummy.

Shhh. He doesn't want facts. He wants to make the case fit the narrative in his head.


So a bridge designed to handle traffic in 1950, while there was a material shortage due to the Korean War over the second widest point of the Hudson and 10 years past its expected life might not have integrity issues now?

I do think they would have at least considered moving the bridge to a slightly narrower point of the river within a reasonable distance to help reduce the cost. I would expect the costs of extra roads to get there to be less than the cost of the extra bridge length.
 
2011-10-12 07:49:13 PM
Wasn't that bridge built where it was, instead of further down river where it's narrower, to keep it out of the Port Authority and thus Robert Moses?

Ah yes. Here we go. (new window)

The Port Authority - the body that proposed putting the bridge further south - had a monopoly over all bridges built in a 25-mile radius around the Statue of Liberty.

If the bridge had been built just a bit south of its current location - that is, if it had been built across a narrower stretch of the river - it would have been in the territory that belonged to the Port Authority.

As a result, the Port Authority - not the State of New York - would have gotten the revenue from tolls on the bridge. And Dewey needed that toll revenue to fund the rest of the Thruway.

So Dewey was stuck with a three-mile-long bridge.
 
Displayed 50 of 165 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »