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(Salon) Followup Warren Buffet:"The rich want to pay more taxes". Reality: Not so much, and with conditions   (politics.salon.com) divider line 171
More: Followup, United States Public Debt  
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1826 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Oct 2011 at 12:56 PM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»   |    Get this fabulous T-Shirt and impress the methane out of your friends! shirt it!



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Headso
2011-10-12 09:50:33 AM
If you are rich and try to mitigate your tax burden you are following good business practices trying to lower your costs. If you are middle class and try to mitigate your tax burden you are committing class warfare.
 
HeadKase [TotalFark]
2011-10-12 10:28:01 AM
Finding a great CPA and ditching the cookie cutter tax houses was the best decision I made 20 years ago.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2011-10-12 10:31:23 AM
Even those eight don't really WANT to pay more taxes, they just realize that voodoo economics is going to be a disaster for everyone in the long run.
 
Sleeping Monkey [TotalFark]
2011-10-12 10:51:39 AM
Which is exactly why we need to shove these taxes down their gold-plated throats.
 
coco ebert [TotalFark]
2011-10-12 10:52:07 AM
The results are in. Of 400 billionaires, only eight (including Buffett) say they are willing to pay more. Three others indicated opposition; one said maybe.

But most declined to comment at all.

Take of that what you will.
 
Dusk-You-n-Me [TotalFark]
2011-10-12 11:30:39 AM
I have a distinct lack of interest what the rich want.
 
lennavan
2011-10-12 11:40:48 AM
The results are in. Of 400 billionaires, only eight (including Buffett) say they are willing to pay more. Three others indicated opposition; one said maybe. But most declined to comment at all. Oprah Winfrey, who endorsed Obama in 2008, did not respond.

Yes - 8
No - 3
Maybe - 1

Of people who answered, 2/3rds said yes. So I love that this guy and subby conclude:

We canvassed the 400 wealthiest people in America. How many said they would pay more taxes? That's right: 2 percent

I love that from your data you conclude only 2% want to pay more taxes. Not something more likely such as the vast majority of billionaires didn't want to waste their time replying to a stupid blogger.
 
wyltoknow [TotalFark]
2011-10-12 12:22:20 PM
lennavan: I love that from your data you conclude only 2% want to pay more taxes.

Well then I say we should eagerly follow and embrace their special brand of "logic".

We canvassed the 400 wealthiest people in America. How many said they were against paying more taxes? That's right: less than 1 percent.
 
lennavan
2011-10-12 12:32:57 PM
wyltoknow: lennavan: I love that from your data you conclude only 2% want to pay more taxes.

Well then I say we should eagerly follow and embrace their special brand of "logic".

We canvassed the 400 wealthiest people in America. How many said they were against paying more taxes? That's right: less than 1 percent.

Took me a second. You gotta highlight the other change too.
 
The Stealth Hippopotamus [TotalFark]
2011-10-12 12:41:26 PM
Sleeping Monkey: Which is exactly why we need to shove these taxes down their gold-plated throats.

Dusk-You-n-Me: I have a distinct lack of interest what the rich want.

I really want you to understand this.
Billions are smart enough and rich enough to move.
There are places out there that want their money moved to their shores.
Here are 10 examples if you don't believe me: Link (new window)
 
Sleeping Monkey [TotalFark]
2011-10-12 12:45:39 PM
The Stealth Hippopotamus: I really want you to understand this.
Billions are smart enough and rich enough to move.
There are places out there that want their money moved to their shores.
Here are 10 examples if you don't believe me: Link (new window)


That's fine. Let them go. The Free Market will resolve it.
 
Dusk-You-n-Me [TotalFark]
2011-10-12 12:51:40 PM
The Stealth Hippopotamus: Billions are smart enough and rich enough to move.

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Here are 10 examples if you don't believe me: Link (new window)

Wow. Celebrities move places. I'll sound the general alarm.
 
CorporatePerson
2011-10-12 12:59:48 PM
Democrats and Republicans will both raise taxes. Democrats just want to raise it on a small number of people who can most easily take the hit. Republicans want to raise taxes on half the country. The half that already makes less than $20,000 and will be much more adversely affected.

The Republican plan is to raise taxes on the poor. They just use euphemisms like "broaden the base" because the media and Democrats won't call them out on it. But they are 100% for tax increases, regardless of what they say in their talking points.
 
Scerpes
2011-10-12 01:00:20 PM
Headso: If you are rich and try to mitigate your tax burden you are following good business practices trying to lower your costs. If you are middle class and try to mitigate your tax burden you are committing class warfare.

Mitigating your tax burden = good tax planning. The class warfare you're describing involves pushing for someone else to pay your share.
 
WizardofToast
2011-10-12 01:00:34 PM
Correction: A majority of Americans, Warren Buffet and a few billionaires want the rich to pay more taxes.

If we can get rid of the loopholes that allow people to plug money into offshore accounts and bring it back to the American circuit as well then I'm all for it.
 
Corvus
2011-10-12 01:01:08 PM
Sorry when did Warren Buffet say the rich WANT to pay more taxes subtard?

He said they SHOULD pay more taxes.
 
Scerpes
2011-10-12 01:01:13 PM
CorporatePerson: Democrats and Republicans will both raise taxes. Democrats just want to raise it on a small number of people who can most easily take the hit. Republicans want to raise taxes on half the country. The half that already makes less than $20,000 and will be much more adversely affected.

I see nothing wrong with asking those who pay nothing in income taxes to kick in a couple of bucks.
 
CorporatePerson
2011-10-12 01:02:09 PM
Scerpes: CorporatePerson: Democrats and Republicans will both raise taxes. Democrats just want to raise it on a small number of people who can most easily take the hit. Republicans want to raise taxes on half the country. The half that already makes less than $20,000 and will be much more adversely affected.

I see nothing wrong with asking those who pay nothing in income taxes to kick in a couple of bucks.

What if they're Taxed Enough Already?
 
Corvus
2011-10-12 01:02:24 PM
WizardofToast: Correction: A majority of Americans, Warren Buffet and a few billionaires want the rich to pay more taxes.

It's what they do. They lie about what people are actually saying.
 
whidbey
2011-10-12 01:05:58 PM
Reality:

But most declined to comment at all.

Nice going, subby. You thought ya had something.
 
WizardofToast
2011-10-12 01:06:37 PM
Scerpes: CorporatePerson: Democrats and Republicans will both raise taxes. Democrats just want to raise it on a small number of people who can most easily take the hit. Republicans want to raise taxes on half the country. The half that already makes less than $20,000 and will be much more adversely affected.

I see nothing wrong with asking those who pay nothing in income taxes to kick in a couple of bucks.

Do payroll taxes count? Or should they be taxed more?
 
Philip Francis Queeg
2011-10-12 01:07:51 PM
Scerpes: CorporatePerson: Democrats and Republicans will both raise taxes. Democrats just want to raise it on a small number of people who can most easily take the hit. Republicans want to raise taxes on half the country. The half that already makes less than $20,000 and will be much more adversely affected.

I see nothing wrong with asking those who pay nothing in income taxes to kick in a couple of bucks.

By your own definition that is class warfare.
 
Car_Ramrod
2011-10-12 01:08:11 PM
Can we change the George Soros conspiracy theories to Mark Cuban conspiracy theories? That would make them much more awesome. Thank you.
 
bulldg4life
2011-10-12 01:13:39 PM
In a shocking turn of events, moving the tax brackets 3% back to the rates of the 90s is not class warfare.

Now shutup.
 
Asa Phelps [TotalFark]
2011-10-12 01:14:39 PM
Scerpes: CorporatePerson: Democrats and Republicans will both raise taxes. Democrats just want to raise it on a small number of people who can most easily take the hit. Republicans want to raise taxes on half the country. The half that already makes less than $20,000 and will be much more adversely affected.

I see nothing wrong with asking those who pay nothing in income taxes to kick in a couple of bucks.

how much revenue to you figure that will bring in?
 
Karma Curmudgeon
2011-10-12 01:18:37 PM
The Stealth Hippopotamus: There are places out there that want their money moved to their shores
Here are 10 examples if you don't believe me: Link (new window)

Sounds like a Real AmericanTM solution. Maybe we should ask if they're for us or against us.
 
Corvus
2011-10-12 01:18:40 PM
Scerpes: CorporatePerson: Democrats and Republicans will both raise taxes. Democrats just want to raise it on a small number of people who can most easily take the hit. Republicans want to raise taxes on half the country. The half that already makes less than $20,000 and will be much more adversely affected.

I see nothing wrong with asking those who pay nothing in income taxes to kick in a couple of bucks.

Many rich people pay zero because their income tax is taxed in foreign countries. So you support them being taxed a minimum of 15% percent or you only want poor people to pay?
 
Corvus
2011-10-12 01:21:16 PM
Scerpes: I see nothing wrong with asking those who pay nothing in income taxes to kick in a couple of bucks.

income tax is not even 50% of the revenue that the federal government receives. What is so special about income tax that it's some sort of "magic tax" that should be the only tax ever counted?

How about if we have rich people pay more payroll taxes that they pay none if the just make money from investments or remove the cap on payroll taxes?
 
cgraves67
2011-10-12 01:21:29 PM
It looks like the answer is: OK, but not if the money is spent on people we don't like.
 
The_Six_Fingered_Man
2011-10-12 01:23:08 PM
Asa Phelps: Scerpes: CorporatePerson: Democrats and Republicans will both raise taxes. Democrats just want to raise it on a small number of people who can most easily take the hit. Republicans want to raise taxes on half the country. The half that already makes less than $20,000 and will be much more adversely affected.

I see nothing wrong with asking those who pay nothing in income taxes to kick in a couple of bucks.

how much revenue to you figure that will bring in?

If every single return that reported less than $50,000 in taxable income paid a modest 5%, you would have generated $54,316,846,400.00 in revenue.

If you asked them just to kick in $100 each, you could raise $3,717,540,400.00 of revenue.
 
bulldg4life
2011-10-12 01:29:36 PM
The_Six_Fingered_Man: If every single return that reported less than $50,000 in taxable income paid a modest 5%, you would have generated $54,316,846,400.00 in revenue.

If you asked them just to kick in $100 each, you could raise $3,717,540,400.00 of revenue.

And how much would we bring in if we raised the top two marginal tax brackets by 3%?

I mean, I only took a few math classes in college, but something about asking the poorest among us to kick in extra doesn't seem to make sense.
 
Car_Ramrod
2011-10-12 01:31:13 PM
bulldg4life: The_Six_Fingered_Man: If every single return that reported less than $50,000 in taxable income paid a modest 5%, you would have generated $54,316,846,400.00 in revenue.

If you asked them just to kick in $100 each, you could raise $3,717,540,400.00 of revenue.

And how much would we bring in if we raised the top two marginal tax brackets by 3%?

I mean, I only took a few math classes in college, but something about asking the poorest among us to kick in extra doesn't seem to make sense.

You're missing the point: it would take away the perks of being poor.
 
Headso
2011-10-12 01:32:04 PM
Scerpes: Headso: If you are rich and try to mitigate your tax burden you are following good business practices trying to lower your costs. If you are middle class and try to mitigate your tax burden you are committing class warfare.

Mitigating your tax burden = good tax planning. The class warfare you're describing involves pushing for someone else to pay your share.

And of course fox news is the decider on what "your share" is.
 
Philip Francis Queeg
2011-10-12 01:32:16 PM
bulldg4life: The_Six_Fingered_Man: If every single return that reported less than $50,000 in taxable income paid a modest 5%, you would have generated $54,316,846,400.00 in revenue.

If you asked them just to kick in $100 each, you could raise $3,717,540,400.00 of revenue.

And how much would we bring in if we raised the top two marginal tax brackets by 3%?

I mean, I only took a few math classes in college, but something about asking the poorest among us to kick in extra doesn't seem to make sense.

It makes perfect sense if you aren't really concerned about tax revenues, but are only interested in punishing those that you think must be bad people based on the fact that God hasn't blessed them with great wealth.
 
gretzkyscores
2011-10-12 01:32:32 PM
Why are these rich people who apparently want to pay more waiting for a law to compel them to do so? Just get out your goddam checkbook and write a fat check payable to the US Treasury.

Absolutely nothing is stopping them from doing so. No need for a law.
 
bulldg4life
2011-10-12 01:34:25 PM
Also, I would assume that it would be safe to estimate that those making $50,000 or less are, essentially, living paycheck to paycheck.

And, that paycheck would be, roughly, $950 a week.

So, the brilliant plan is to ask that the poorest among us kick in half a paycheck. You know, so they have skin in the game. Because, apparently, living paycheck to paycheck isn't hard enough with the other taxes taken out...you need to kick in some income tax too.

Meanwhile, there are people that put forth this option as reasonable when defending tax rate hikes on people that make in a day or week what the poor make in a year.

Brilliant.
 
s2s2s2
2011-10-12 01:34:43 PM
John Catsimatidis, CEO of the Gristedes supermarket chain ($2B), offered a different version of "shared sacrifice."

"All Americans should feel the pain equally; not be prejudiced only against a certain group. If that is allowed, it opens doors to other prejudices to other groups."

Right, so squeeze the rich until they finally start feeling some pain, and we should be all evened up.
 
bulldg4life
2011-10-12 01:37:36 PM
I think here is where someone posts the Daily Show clip where Jon Stewart points out that taking every earthly possession of the bottom 90% of the population would equal the amount of money asked for by the GOP as a reasonable amount needed to solve our debt crisis. The same amount that the GOP claims would ruin America and is class warfare when discussing the idea of raising the two top marginal tax brackets by 3%.
 
oldass31
2011-10-12 01:37:56 PM
I actually wrote to my Congresswoman, Michele Bachmann, telling her that I support increasing my class's income tax rates. And to stop calling for immediate austerity measures.
 
Philip Francis Queeg
2011-10-12 01:38:56 PM
bulldg4life: Also, I would assume that it would be safe to estimate that those making $50,000 or less are, essentially, living paycheck to paycheck.

And, that paycheck would be, roughly, $950 a week.

So, the brilliant plan is to ask that the poorest among us kick in half a paycheck. You know, so they have skin in the game. Because, apparently, living paycheck to paycheck isn't hard enough with the other taxes taken out...you need to kick in some income tax too.

Meanwhile, there are people that put forth this option as reasonable when defending tax rate hikes on people that make in a day or week what the poor make in a year.

Brilliant.

No, no it would not. It would be substantially less than that. Those making under $50,000 still pay other payroll taxes like FICA, and may have other deductions from their paycheck if, for example, they have health insurance.
 
Lord Dimwit [TotalFark]
2011-10-12 01:39:37 PM
Personal wealth does not create jobs. Whether Bill Gates has $1 billion in the bank or $10 billion does not create or destroy one job. The tax rates on the Microsoft Corporation may or may not impact job creation, but that's not what we're talking about here.

The ultra-rich receive far more benefit from society than anyone else. They require regulated and stable markets for their investments. They require a strong military to protect their wealth. They require the FDIC to insure their liquid assets. They require stable transportation infrastructure to transport their goods. They require a stable telecommunications system to run their companies .They require a stable and regulated banking environment to avoid losing everything.

The rich have benefited so much more from government regulation, and have so much more to lose if those regulations fail, and, proportionally, use so many more services of the government...why shouldn't they pay more?
 
madgonad
2011-10-12 01:40:10 PM
gretzkyscores: Why are these rich people who apparently want to pay more waiting for a law to compel them to do so? Just get out your goddam checkbook and write a fat check payable to the US Treasury.

Absolutely nothing is stopping them from doing so. No need for a law.

Exactly.

So when you decide that it is a good idea to go to war with Iran you should just pack your guns up and charter a flight to the Middle East and fight that war yourself.

Why should the rest of us die or pay for something that is only important to some of us?
 
bulldg4life
2011-10-12 01:43:07 PM
Philip Francis Queeg: No, no it would not. It would be substantially less than that. Those making under $50,000 still pay other payroll taxes like FICA, and may have other deductions from their paycheck if, for example, they have health insurance.

I was just using that because the math was easier. I mean, the guy said $50,000 or less.

I figured it was ridiculous enough if I used the most optimistic part. I don't even want to think about the argument needed to go after a few hundred from the family of 4 with a single breadwinner making $42,500.
 
Philip Francis Queeg
2011-10-12 01:43:44 PM
gretzkyscores: Why are these rich people who apparently want to pay more waiting for a law to compel them to do so? Just get out your goddam checkbook and write a fat check payable to the US Treasury.

Absolutely nothing is stopping them from doing so. No need for a law.

And if you think the rich are taxed too much, there is nothing stopping you from writing a check to them.
 
Dr Dreidel
2011-10-12 01:44:00 PM
gretzkyscores: Why are these rich people who apparently want to pay more waiting for a law to compel them to do so? Just get out your goddam checkbook and write a fat check payable to the US Treasury.

Absolutely nothing is stopping them from doing so. No need for a law.

Because the National Debt is $14,000,000,000,000 and counting (so I hear).

A billionaire paying an extra $50,000 to the government won't change that.

400 billionaires paying $50,000 more - each - in taxes brings in $20 million. Not really enough for a sea change, but enough to fund NPR for a year or two. If that's the best we can do, I'll take it, but...

If we added a 15% tax on billionaires, those 400 billionaires (assuming they paid 15% of $1bn each) would contribute $60 BILLION dollars. Per year. Hardly chump change (8 years of that could fund the AJA).

The free rider problem exists at the very tippy-top of the income ladder, just as it does at the bottom.
 
s2s2s2
2011-10-12 01:44:00 PM
madgonad: Exactly

How much extra is Buffet paying in, currently? Does anyone have that figure?
Does he know that you can actually right off a gift to the Treasury?
 
Dusk-You-n-Me [TotalFark]
2011-10-12 01:44:30 PM
Another day, another poll showing Americans support raising taxes on the top incomes.


NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll:

What's more, 64 percent of respondents agree with the statement that it is a "good idea" to raise taxes on the wealthy and corporations, because they should pay their fair share and can afford to pay more to help fund programs and government operations.

Link (new window)
 
Dwight_Yeast
2011-10-12 01:44:46 PM
The Stealth Hippopotamus: Here are 10 examples if you don't believe me: Link (new window)

Don't know who put that list together, but it's badly out-dated. Jagger, Bowie and Michael Caine all returned to the UK after they dropped the 90% tax rate at the end of the 70s. Teacy Emin hasn't actually left the country, and most Formula ! drivers reside in Monaco, no matter what their country of origin.
 
bulldg4life
2011-10-12 01:45:22 PM
Whoops...sorry...I tried to make the math easier and I still screwed it up.

We're asking someone making $50,000 to throw in an extra $2500. It isn't hard enough to live paycheck to paycheck, but they need to chip in nearly a month's worth of checks to make it fair.

We should consider that before raising top marginal tax rates.

Sorry, my iPhone started updating to iOS5 and I got a stiffy and lost all ability to do math.
 
The_Six_Fingered_Man
2011-10-12 01:47:24 PM
bulldg4life: The_Six_Fingered_Man: If every single return that reported less than $50,000 in taxable income paid a modest 5%, you would have generated $54,316,846,400.00 in revenue.

If you asked them just to kick in $100 each, you could raise $3,717,540,400.00 of revenue.

And how much would we bring in if we raised the top two marginal tax brackets by 3%?

I mean, I only took a few math classes in college, but something about asking the poorest among us to kick in extra doesn't seem to make sense.

If you took all returns in the 33 and 35% brackets, you only generate an additional $17,097,752,000.00 in income. Or $37,219,094,400.00 less than what you generate by requiring a 5% minimum tax.
 
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