This is a collective issue. This talking point is fundamentally flawed.
The aggregate benefit of taxes is felt collectively. This concept works if that collective tax bracket, collectively, all lift their burden. That won't happen.

I wish we had better words in english to define collective vs individual, as this meaning is often lost.

Party Boy: This is a collective issue. This talking point is fundamentally flawed.
The aggregate benefit of taxes is felt collectively. This concept works if that collective tax bracket, collectively, all lift their burden. That won't happen.

I wish we had better words in english to define collective vs individual, as this meaning is often lost.

how about $thousands vs $billions

links136: how about $thousands vs $billions

regarding what exactly.

*sigh*

/welcome to the new gilded age, same as the old gilded age

ZAZ: We have this law in Massachusetts. You can choose to be taxed at 5.3% or 5.85%. A few poor people choose the higher rate. The people who complained loudest that taxes should be higher choose the lower rate.

I'm okay with this, provided there is a second check box for people who think we're overspending to forgo their government benefits.

Do this for everyone. Hell, make taxes optional. Let's see how far that gets us in reducing the deficit.

It's been a few years since I've done my own taxes (I highly recommend marrying an accountant) but hasn't the 1040 had a "I'd like to send some money to pay down the debt" checkbox for a couple decades now?

Party Boy: This is a collective issue. This talking point is fundamentally flawed.
The aggregate benefit of taxes is felt collectively. This concept works if that collective tax bracket, collectively, all lift their burden. That won't happen.

I wish we had better words in english to define collective vs individual, as this meaning is often lost.

See we have this tin by the coffee pot. We each put in 25 cents a day for unlimited coffee. It doesn't collect enough and the fund is going broke and we end up buying cheap ass coffee. I voluntarily put in extra money and encourage others to do the same, but its still broke. Everytime I bring up charging the frequent drinkers extra so they pay for what they use, I get accused of being a socialist and laughed at.

ZAZ: We have this law in Massachusetts. You can choose to be taxed at 5.3% or 5.85%. A few poor people choose the higher rate. The people who complained loudest that taxes should be higher choose the lower rate.

If there were a checkbox for people who think we're overspending to forfeit their government benefits, I guarantee that the people who b*tch the loudest about spending wouldn't check it.

Taxes schmaxes

Are your taxes too low? Send a check to:

Attn Dept G
Bureau of the Public Debt
P. O. Box 2188
Parkersburg, WV 26106-2188

They'll take the money you don't want and flush it down the toilet.

loser0: It's been a few years since I've done my own taxes (I highly recommend marrying an accountant) but hasn't the 1040 had a "I'd like to send some money to pay down the debt" checkbox for a couple decades now?

I don't recall that box, but I'm fairly sure there is the "Check this box to give $3 to politicians to spend on their campaigns" box.

loser0: It's been a few years since I've done my own taxes (I highly recommend marrying an accountant) but hasn't the 1040 had a "I'd like to send some money to pay down the debt" checkbox for a couple decades now?

No, but you can elect to send $3 to the presidential campaign.

/I'm an accountant
//no, I'm not your wife

It's a good start, but I also need the option of being fondled more at the airport.

MindStalker: See we have this tin by the coffee pot. We each put in 25 cents a day for unlimited coffee. It doesn't collect enough and the fund is going broke and we end up buying cheap ass coffee. I voluntarily put in extra money and encourage others to do the same, but its still broke. Everytime I bring up charging the frequent drinkers extra so they pay for what they use, I get accused of being a socialist and laughed at.

Heh.

Then desocialize the model and go for the gusto.

1) Bring your own grinder, good beans, and french press.
2) Produce a proper cup of coffee
3) Receive envy.

Maybe the message would set in. If there's butthurt, point out the obvious. It should be beating them over the head at that point.

libranoelrose: If I hear or read 'job creators' again I'm going to lose it.

More people need to know who Frank Luntz is.

Less Democrats should employ these words, as it already puts you on a losing argument. The media should really control their use of words crafted for propagandistic purposes. Its disgusting when they're used on media programs.

ensjoeski: Are your taxes too low? Send a check to:

Attn Dept G
Bureau of the Public Debt
P. O. Box 2188
Parkersburg, WV 26106-2188

They'll take the money you don't want and flush it down the toilet.

I got an uncle that works there. You can put his name on the envelope and my name on the check, we'll see how quick this debt goes down.

ZAZ: I get no cash equivalent or convertible government benefits

At this moment--maybe. But if you become unemployed, you'll get unemployment benefits. If you become disabled, you'll get disability benefits. If you want to go to college, you'll get subsidized federal loans. If you think we're overspending--that Social Security is out of control, or that Medicare is socialist tyranny, just forfeit your right to receive them. It makes as much moral sense as people who want higher taxes voluntarily paying higher taxes.

The old ad hominem circumstantial works just as effectively against thee, you see. Something you might have learned had you taken out some federal loans to go to college.

Just need an option that says:

0 taxes (but I promise to create a job)

That'll fix everything, right?

How about just closing tax loops and going to a flat tax? That will screw everyone at the same rate. Rich people will always have lawyers to create tax loops. I bet Warren has a ton of tax lawyers working for him.

The flat tax fixes the problem.

thetheologian: The flat tax fixes the problem.

Quick summary: Flat tax taxes work, it has problems taxing wealth. Its heavily tilted towards the non rich.

People with a great deal of wealth and resources have much more weapons in their arsenal to dodge payments.

FTA:

Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis., said Obama's Buffett Rule would "simply divide this country more."

"It will attack job creators, divide people and it doesn't grow the economy," Ryan said on "Fox News Sunday" shortly after the president announced his rule. "Class warfare may make for really good politics, but it makes for rotten economics."

Words fail me.

There is already a section in the tax forms where you can send in additional cash as a donation or whatever therm they use.

Instead of paying it we see "I feel your pain" liberals writing off used underwear donations so they can keep more of their millions.

thetheologian: How about just closing tax loops and going to a flat tax? That will screw everyone at the same rate. Rich people will always have lawyers to create tax loops. I bet Warren has a ton of tax lawyers working for him.

The flat tax fixes the problem.

Because society doesn't scale that way.

Let's say the tax is set at 10%. You make a million bucks, you pay $100,000, you've still got $900K and can live rather comfortably.
You make $10,000, you pay $1,000, that's going to hurt you a hell of a lot more because now you're probably choosing between food and electricity.

ensjoeski: Are your taxes too low? Send a check to:

Attn Dept G
Bureau of the Public Debt
P. O. Box 2188
Parkersburg, WV 26106-2188

They'll take the money you don't want and flush it down the toilet.

Hell, it's even easier than that. Just don't take all your deductions.

I have no problem with the idea the wealthy may need to pay more. I have a huge problem when the people saying it are doing everything they can to minimize their tax liabilities. Do't claim the moral high ground if you have to be forced to do what you are claiming is "right".

OnlyM3: There is already a section in the tax forms where you can send in additional cash as a donation or whatever therm they use.

Instead of paying it we see "I feel your pain" liberals writing off used underwear donations so they can keep more of their millions.

And we'll see antigovernment types carrying racist signs at protests as they ride around on their Medicare provided hoverrounds

They will only do that after someone holds their head down in a flushing toilet for a couple minutes.

Don't think of it as paying an extra tax. Think of it as opting to bribe the IRS so they won't audit the rest of your return.

Gosling: Let's say the tax is set at 10%. You make a million bucks, you pay $100,000, you've still got $900K and can live rather comfortably.
You make $10,000, you pay $1,000, that's going to hurt you a hell of a lot more because now you're probably choosing between food and electricity.

Make everyone pay the same dollar amount.

Corvus: Al Republicans just forfeit your social security and medicare, then you have nothing to complain about. Right?

As long as I can have my contributions-to-date back, you've got a deal.

It's not a matter of people who 'want' to pay more paying more.

it's a question of fairness.

Listen to president Regan (new window)

Everyone should chip in responsibly, and pay a fair amount.

People who are broke don't pay.

People who are profiting massively off our nation should pay more.

People who are making in-between money should pay an in-between rate, not a rate higher than the people who are extracting a fortune from our nation.

loser0: It's been a few years since I've done my own taxes (I highly recommend marrying an accountant) but hasn't the 1040 had a "I'd like to send some money to pay down the debt" checkbox for a couple decades now?

There is actually a form; google "Gifts to Reduce the Public Debt" and you'll find it.

The New York Times ran an article (new window) on it last year, and on a per-year basis, that form brings in only about $3 million a year. The Department of the Treasury doesn't like to advertise it because... well, they're afraid that it'll get politicized. They would greatly prefer people not use the idea as a foil to rewrite the whole damn tax code into "if you like taxes so much, you can pay mine too".

Gosling: thetheologian: How about just closing tax loops and going to a flat tax? That will screw everyone at the same rate. Rich people will always have lawyers to create tax loops. I bet Warren has a ton of tax lawyers working for him.

The flat tax fixes the problem.

Because society doesn't scale that way.

Let's say the tax is set at 10%. You make a million bucks, you pay $100,000, you've still got $900K and can live rather comfortably.
You make $10,000, you pay $1,000, that's going to hurt you a hell of a lot more because now you're probably choosing between food and electricity.

Or they could sell off that refrigerator they have and live within their means.

pedrop357: Corvus: Al Republicans just forfeit your social security and medicare, then you have nothing to complain about. Right?

As long as I can have my contributions-to-date back, you've got a deal.

Nope. Sorry. If you think the problem is overspending, you need to forgo your government benefits, and pay the taxes for them. Just like you're asking people who think undertaxing is the problem to pay higher taxes.