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(Washington Post)   It's not that 99 percent of Americans want a revolution. It's that 99 percent of Americans sense that the fundamental bargain of our economy: work hard, play by the rules, get ahead--has been broken, and they want to see it restored   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 210
    More: Obvious, Americans, postgraduate education, revolutions, Americans sense  
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3137 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Oct 2011 at 2:34 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-10-04 02:05:48 PM
Some people *liked* the Gilded Age.

What's interesting to me is that the corporate-driven media (yes, Fox, but the other big channels as well) are really starting to lose control of this story. They managed to get three weeks of mockery-driven headlines (when there were headlines at all) basically dismissing these protests as laughable hippie fests. But something's changed, and it's changed really fast -- like a switch being flipped, a tide turning. I don't think there's been any sort of tipping point yet, and I think it's unlikely that there will be one barring some sort of unspeakable flashpoint (which is why I'm sure every police department in the country is getting very, very explicit "hands off" lectures on a daily basis). But the narrative has definitely shifted and there's going to be a lot of nervous scrambling in the next few days. Expect to start seeing "spontaneous" Tea Party counter-protests (although that message will be interesting to see put to voice) any day now.
 
2011-10-04 02:21:45 PM
The funny thing, is that these folks and the TEA Party's stated goals are shared.

But that's not going to keep the Crazy Train from mobilizing to defend their sponsors...
 
2011-10-04 02:30:23 PM
If I were an 18 year old kid, there is no way I would borrow money to go to college. I would find a job, one that pays well (like waitstaff or working offshore) and save as much as I could and then go to college. If I couldn't find a job, I would join the armed forces for their benefits and incentives.

The way things have been done for the past 30 years are over. The democrats and republicans have seen to that.

The key, now, is to graduate with zero debt and money in your pocket.

This is the way I had to make it through college after Reagan's reforms killed student loans. I made too much to qualify for them. The benefit was that I only had about $2K in debt when I graduated. After landing a job offshore working 14/14, I was able to find a better job and earn enough to pay off my loans and buy the essentials I needed.

I wish the new graduates well. It is a tough world out there. It is even tougher when you owe Bank of America $50K and you can only land a job working at a fast food restaurant.
 
2011-10-04 02:32:06 PM
Since the relevant thread was redlit (boo), here's a link to the Tumblr photo stream mentioned in TFA:

We Are The 99 (new window)
 
2011-10-04 02:32:37 PM
I love that this is going on, but I am not getting a sense of the magnitude of this movement. Can anyone in NYC describe what it's like right now?
 
2011-10-04 02:34:11 PM
"When avarice takes the lead in a state, it is commonly the forerunner of its fall." - Alexander Hamilton
 
2011-10-04 02:36:16 PM
Hint: it hasn't been broken. It was never working properly to be4gin with.
 
2011-10-04 02:37:59 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Since the relevant thread was redlit (boo), here's a link to the Tumblr photo stream mentioned in TFA:

We Are The 99 (new window)


Sounds like she picked a bad time to get knocked up...
 
wee [TotalFark]
2011-10-04 02:38:56 PM
After reading through a couple pages of the tumblr site, I'm sensing a theme:

"I went $75,000 in debt getting a completely worthless degree at a 'university' that advertises on TV."

"I had to sell the house I mistakenly bought at the top of the bubble, even though I never really could afford it to begin with."

"I got hurt and couldn't afford my medical bills, and we had to use credit cards to pay for everything."


People in one of those three broad categories has something to actually protest about.

How about instead of whine about rebalancing wealth (which isn't going to happen no matter how many people protest; one thing folks who make fark-you money are good at is holding on to that money) we talk about getting rid of this mentality that everyone needs to go to college in order to be successful? We're clearly putting a lot of kids into debt that they'll never be able to get out of in a reasonable time. So why aren't high schools and parents telling kids that being a carpenter or an electrician or a pipe fitter or whatever is a perfectly acceptable path? Sure, manufacturing in the US has largely gone out the window, but we have people in government talking about "shovel-ready jobs", and without enough people to know how to work the shovels those jobs are a polite but disingenuous fiction that is doing us no good at all.

The problem isn't Wall Street (though they do have some serious 'splaining to do, including why a lot of those farkers aren't behind bars), it's that we don't have enough welders, because we've been telling kids such jobs are menial and beneath them. We've been saying it's better for them to be $50,000 in debt getting a BFA in Literary Studies than to learn a skill. Sure, we need those lit folks, but only a few of them. What we need more is people who do actual skilled work for a living. But since they've been told they're worthless without that degree, they take the path to crushing debt. It's got to stop.

Anyway, that's my opinion. Likely not a popular one here, but whatever.
 
2011-10-04 02:39:07 PM

hubiestubert: The funny thing, is that these folks and the TEA Party's stated goals are shared.


There are some mental gymnastics that only a right winger can achieve, they are cheering unionized police paid by the government in busting up protests about special interests getting a big bailout on the tax payer dime.
 
2011-10-04 02:39:11 PM
I'm getting more and more tempted to take a couple days personal time and head down there with my camera. Pocket Ninja is right, something changed in the past couple days.
 
2011-10-04 02:39:13 PM
This is it - this is the message. Stick with this and you'll start seeing a lot more momentum. This is exactly what I'm pissed about and want to see changed.

And I'd bet there would be a lot more people occupying Wall Street (or wherever local protests are) if a lot of us could take the time off and/or weren't afraid that we'd lose whatever jobs we had by simply being seen there.

Hell, I'd love to post more about this stuff on Facebook, but I risk losing business and getting in a lot of hot water at work if I did so.

fark.
 
2011-10-04 02:39:27 PM
work hard, play by the rules, get ahead

Class warfare.
 
2011-10-04 02:42:15 PM
wee: I don't think so - lots of those jobs have been outsourced. Make your corporate reputation here, live high on the hog, receive the benefits of the infrastructure and middle-class of the good ol' USA. Then run into trouble, get bailed out by socializing your losses, and eventually move most of your operations overseas for cheap labor.

Don't forget your tax shelter in the Caribbean.

Pricks.
 
2011-10-04 02:42:24 PM
If 99% of people think this way, how do Republicans win approximately 50% of the vote each election? Maybe because the non-religious right, non-bigoted working poor (like those in the article) usually don't vote.
 
2011-10-04 02:42:25 PM

HotWingConspiracy: work hard, play by the rules, get ahead

.


That last step was NEVER a guarantee.
It was a hoped outcome of the first two steps.

The me generation and the current generation and the helicopter parents and entitled kids reset the bar that they were entitled to get ahead.

Seriously, you can work hard hard as a bricklayer all your life, it doesn't mean that you will ever get more ahead than where you started.
 
2011-10-04 02:43:06 PM
This country was founded upon putting musket balls through the faces of an aristocracy that had proclaimed itself special and rigged the system for itself. Unfortunately, the only thing that such people understand is power, it is all they will respond to. Time to start tarring and feathering our Tories again.
 
2011-10-04 02:43:51 PM

Captain_Ballbeard: This country was founded upon putting musket balls through the faces of an aristocracy that had proclaimed itself special and rigged the system for itself.


Are you thinking of France? Because this is decidedly NOT how America was founded.
 
2011-10-04 02:44:34 PM
Oh, goody. The mainstream Left is going to adopt these loons as spokespeople? This'll be AWESOME.
 
2011-10-04 02:45:58 PM
It's not a fundamental "bargain", it's a fundamental myth that many are just becoming cognizant of, as frightening as that is.
 
2011-10-04 02:46:35 PM
TFA: "College debt shows up a lot in these stories, actually."

We bullshiatted these kids into believing a line that no matter what you majored at in college, you'd be Job-Ready and successful ... and then we gave them the government-backed credit "rope" with which to hang themselves. The Academic Left seduced our poorest-decision-making class, those who we do not even trust with alcohol, and we sunk them with tens in thousands of dollars in debt to buy a piece of paper that the marketplace sees as an unhelpful waste of time.

And now they're directing their anger at people who had nothing to do with that decision-making process.

Good work.
 
2011-10-04 02:47:58 PM
work hard, play by the rules, get ahead

don't work, live off of entitlements, get an Escalade (or Hoveround)
 
2011-10-04 02:48:38 PM

Pocket Ninja: Some people *liked* the Gilded Age.

What's interesting to me is that the corporate-driven media (yes, Fox, but the other big channels as well) are really starting to lose control of this story. They managed to get three weeks of mockery-driven headlines (when there were headlines at all) basically dismissing these protests as laughable hippie fests. But something's changed, and it's changed really fast -- like a switch being flipped, a tide turning. I don't think there's been any sort of tipping point yet, and I think it's unlikely that there will be one barring some sort of unspeakable flashpoint (which is why I'm sure every police department in the country is getting very, very explicit "hands off" lectures on a daily basis). But the narrative has definitely shifted and there's going to be a lot of nervous scrambling in the next few days. Expect to start seeing "spontaneous" Tea Party counter-protests (although that message will be interesting to see put to voice) any day now.


So you're saying a light will go on?
 
2011-10-04 02:49:04 PM

wee: After reading through a couple pages of the tumblr site, I'm sensing a theme:

"I went $75,000 in debt getting a completely worthless degree at a 'university' that advertises on TV."

"I had to sell the house I mistakenly bought at the top of the bubble, even though I never really could afford it to begin with."

"I got hurt and couldn't afford my medical bills, and we had to use credit cards to pay for everything."

People in one of those three broad categories has something to actually protest about.

How about instead of whine about rebalancing wealth (which isn't going to happen no matter how many people protest; one thing folks who make fark-you money are good at is holding on to that money) we talk about getting rid of this mentality that everyone needs to go to college in order to be successful? We're clearly putting a lot of kids into debt that they'll never be able to get out of in a reasonable time. So why aren't high schools and parents telling kids that being a carpenter or an electrician or a pipe fitter or whatever is a perfectly acceptable path? Sure, manufacturing in the US has largely gone out the window, but we have people in government talking about "shovel-ready jobs", and without enough people to know how to work the shovels those jobs are a polite but disingenuous fiction that is doing us no good at all.

The problem isn't Wall Street (though they do have some serious 'splaining to do, including why a lot of those farkers aren't behind bars), it's that we don't have enough welders, because we've been telling kids such jobs are menial and beneath them. We've been saying it's better for them to be $50,000 in debt getting a BFA in Literary Studies than to learn a skill. Sure, we need those lit folks, but only a few of them. What we need more is people who do actual skilled work for a living. But since they've been told they're worthless without that degree, they take the path to crushing debt. It's got to stop.

Anyway, that's my opinion. Likely not a popular one here, but whatever.


The problem is that college placement is not reflective of industry demand. That's it in a nutshell. If in 2010 there were 100,000 jobs in African-American studies, and the average percentage of people retiring in that field is 3%/year, there should only be 3,000 placements in colleges per year for that course of study.

Boom. Now fix it, Bureau of Labor Statistics and Universities.
 
2011-10-04 02:49:28 PM

Garet Garrett: Oh, goody. The mainstream Left is going to adopt these loons as spokespeople? This'll be AWESOME.


And the right will suddenly be for the bailouts.
 
2011-10-04 02:51:01 PM

Garet Garrett: Oh, goody. The mainstream Left is going to adopt these loons as spokespeople? This'll be AWESOME.


Yeah they've got a 60 member "Occupy Wall Street" caucus in Congress.
 
2011-10-04 02:51:17 PM
Remember when descent was the highest form of patriotic? I know it was way back in the dark ages of just a few months ago, so it's understandable if you don't remember. Good times.
 
2011-10-04 02:51:35 PM

vaderstg: TFA: "College debt shows up a lot in these stories, actually."

We bullshiatted these kids into believing a line that no matter what you majored at in college, you'd be Job-Ready and successful ... and then we gave them the government-backed credit "rope" with which to hang themselves. The Academic Left seduced our poorest-decision-making class, those who we do not even trust with alcohol, and we sunk them with tens in thousands of dollars in debt to buy a piece of paper that the marketplace sees as an unhelpful waste of time.

And now they're directing their anger at people who had nothing to do with that decision-making process.

Good work.


In fairness, could you really expect any better analysis from people who have spent four years being educated in the finer points of diversity?
 
2011-10-04 02:51:50 PM

vaderstg: TFA: "College debt shows up a lot in these stories, actually."

We bullshiatted these kids into believing a line that no matter what you majored at in college, you'd be Job-Ready and successful ... and then we gave them the government-backed credit "rope" with which to hang themselves. The Academic Left seduced our poorest-decision-making class, those who we do not even trust with alcohol, and we sunk them with tens in thousands of dollars in debt to buy a piece of paper that the marketplace sees as an unhelpful waste of time.

And now they're directing their anger at people who had nothing to do with that decision-making process.

Good work.


Either you're joking/trolling, or completely delusional.


/I'm going to hope for the former and bet on the latter
 
2011-10-04 02:52:17 PM
Ya think?

We're not a meritocracy, and we're getting farther from it all the time.
 
2011-10-04 02:52:49 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: HotWingConspiracy: work hard, play by the rules, get ahead

.

That last step was NEVER a guarantee.
It was a hoped outcome of the first two steps.

The me generation and the current generation and the helicopter parents and entitled kids reset the bar that they were entitled to get ahead.

Seriously, you can work hard hard as a bricklayer all your life, it doesn't mean that you will ever get more ahead than where you started.


If you save you'll be able to retire. Duh.
 
2011-10-04 02:52:49 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Remember when descent was the highest form of patriotic? I know it was way back in the dark ages of just a few months ago, so it's understandable if you don't remember. Good times.


"Patriotism, the virtue of the vicious." ~Oscar Wilde

This might be the only time the GOP ever uses this quote.
 
2011-10-04 02:53:09 PM

EnviroDude: If I were an 18 year old kid, there is no way I would borrow money to go to college.


I think you're exactly wrong. if shiat is as bad as all that - either double digit inflation or the outright collapse of the dollar would take care of any outstanding debts you might have. education is worth far more than paper money -- and you don't have your whole life just to start your life.
 
2011-10-04 02:53:14 PM

Headso: Garet Garrett: Oh, goody. The mainstream Left is going to adopt these loons as spokespeople? This'll be AWESOME.

And the right will suddenly be for the bailouts.


Watch the teabagger heads asplode!
 
2011-10-04 02:53:53 PM
Y'know, I think a lot of people would be satisfied if we could get the contract back to "work hard, play by the rules, not fall behind"
 
2011-10-04 02:54:35 PM
wee:

I also meant to address some of your other points, but got caught up.

I don't disagree that we're putting too many people through college and raising their expectations of a white-collar lifestyle. But to change that requires a fundamental change in our education system and a fundamental change in what we, as parents, want to see our kids excel at.

My nerdiness rubs off a lot on my kids - my wife and I simply don't have the background to raise them any other way (we're professionals, not manual laborers). That said, I wouldn't be unhappy if my kids went that way, hell, I'll be ecstatic if they're employed by the time they graduate high school. But I'm willing to wager the tools and the mindset required to bring kids up that way just don't exist in my nor many other middle-class families.
 
2011-10-04 02:54:48 PM
I doubt that 99% of the current generation has any idea of what hard work is really like.

But I digress... the current laws have been skewed so far in favor of business and government that I can see them having a very hard time finding the motivation to even try and work hard.. its kind of hopeless.
 
2011-10-04 02:55:11 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: /I'm going to hope for the former and bet on the latter


These people are primarily relating stories about poor decisions they've made and how its dug them a hole they can't get out of.

You don't think the people who handed them the shovel and encouraged them to keep digging are somehow responsible? And I'm the delusional one?
 
2011-10-04 02:55:33 PM

dwrash: I doubt that 99% of the current generation has any idea of what hard work is really like.


Yes, because the generations above us are some all-hallowed holy thing that we dare never hope to reach!

Please.
 
2011-10-04 02:55:37 PM

FishyFred: I love that this is going on, but I am not getting a sense of the magnitude of this movement. Can anyone in NYC describe what it's like right now?


If you love that its going on, don't sit back waiting for it to get bigger without you. Become part of it.

The key thing that enables these corrupt asshats is APATHY.

... well, that and ignorant old white people who think republicans are endorsed by jesus.
 
2011-10-04 02:55:41 PM

DarwiOdrade: Headso: Garet Garrett: Oh, goody. The mainstream Left is going to adopt these loons as spokespeople? This'll be AWESOME.

And the right will suddenly be for the bailouts.

Watch the teabagger heads asplode!


If you folks think this group is going to stay on message as long as they stay on the ground, you're nuts. N-V-T-S nuts.
 
2011-10-04 02:56:23 PM

wee: How about instead of whine about rebalancing wealth (which isn't going to happen no matter how many people protest; one thing folks who make fark-you money are good at is holding on to that money) we talk about getting rid of this mentality that everyone needs to go to college in order to be successful?


THIS THIS and soooooo THIS.

The inconsequential people should know their place in life. They should give up on trying to get ahead, and just reduce their expectations. Is the only thing you're good at scholarly exegesis of English literature? There is no non-forced market for that at all. So unless you come from a family that can pay for that degree out of pocket, just don't GO to college. Get a job, and be happy with your station.

The Prime Movers shouldn't be forced into slavery to increase life quality for people too lazy or stupid to make it for themselves. And my Starbucks isn't gonna serve itself anyway, little lady.
 
2011-10-04 02:56:51 PM
The American Dream has been dead for quite some time... A few folks recognized it as far back as the 70s and 80s, but now, after the recent collapse, the average American has seen the bastards who caused it all raking in record profits while politicians bend over backwards to protect their record low tax rates and putting the burden on the recovery on the backs of the poor and working classes. They also see their prospects for upward mobility further limited year after year.

We're a plutocracy with a thin facade of democracy and there's a small group of very wealthy people who want to not only keep it that way, but concentrate even more wealth and power in their hands...

It's about time the grapes of wrath started growing heavy for the vintage, I suppose.
 
2011-10-04 02:58:44 PM

hubiestubert: The funny thing, is that these folks and the TEA Party's stated goals are shared.


Yep, they are. But the focus is different. The Tea Party thinks they are helpless in the face of the 1%, so they are focusing on the crumbs of the remaining pie. That's why there is such anger about programs to help the poor - because
people see that as taking from their already strained resources. And that
takes away focus from the people who are really responsible for their
strained resources. That is why people are upset about public unions. Many
companies have either lost their unions or the unions have been made
toothless (see: UAW). There was a deal that if one worked for companies
instead of for the government, one would make more money. But the fact that
the average private sector employee is going to be laid off every ten years
or so means that public sector employees end up making better wages simply
because they do not have to start over every ten years. The fact that the
private sector has eliminated retirement funds (and successfully stolen
existing retirement funds) makes people jealous of public sector retirement
programs. Since most people cannot do a damned thing about their lost
retirement money, they are resentful about their taxes being used to pay for
someone else's fund.

I think Occupy needs to make a real effort to reach out to Tea Party people.
One of the worst things I am seeing is the contempt I hear for the Tea
Party. I think they need to be viewed with compassion. We need to focus on
points of agreement - and they really do exist. After all, we're all a part
of the ninety-nine percenters. And the best tool the one percenters have is
turning the ninety-nine against itself.
 
2011-10-04 02:58:51 PM

Garet Garrett: DarwiOdrade: Headso: Garet Garrett: Oh, goody. The mainstream Left is going to adopt these loons as spokespeople? This'll be AWESOME.

And the right will suddenly be for the bailouts.

Watch the teabagger heads asplode!

If you folks think this group is going to stay on message as long as they stay on the ground, you're nuts. N-V-T-S nuts.


I don't mean the talking heads, I mean these people. (new window)
 
2011-10-04 02:58:52 PM

aselene: wee: How about instead of whine about rebalancing wealth (which isn't going to happen no matter how many people protest; one thing folks who make fark-you money are good at is holding on to that money) we talk about getting rid of this mentality that everyone needs to go to college in order to be successful?

THIS THIS and soooooo THIS.

The inconsequential people should know their place in life. They should give up on trying to get ahead, and just reduce their expectations. Is the only thing you're good at scholarly exegesis of English literature? There is no non-forced market for that at all. So unless you come from a family that can pay for that degree out of pocket, just don't GO to college. Get a job, and be happy with your station.

The Prime Movers shouldn't be forced into slavery to increase life quality for people too lazy or stupid to make it for themselves. And my Starbucks isn't gonna serve itself anyway, little lady.


img.photobucket.com
 
2011-10-04 02:59:57 PM

hubiestubert: The funny thing, is that these folks and the TEA Party's stated goals are shared.

But that's not going to keep the Crazy Train from mobilizing to defend their sponsors...


Except that these people blame Wall St. for the recession (Derivatives, CDS, Liars Loans, Too Big to Fail, Goldman Sachs in the Treasury, Lobbyists, etc.) and the Tea Party blames Democrats (Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac, Poor people buying homes they couldn't afford, Obama being elected, too much taxation, too much regulation, etc.) So while they both experienced the same crash due to wealth concentration and the uncontrollable power that comes with it, they want very different solutions.

One wants to reign in that wealth, the other wants to expand that wealth and just make sure the GOP is in charge from now on.

One is fighting for the top 1% the other is fighting for the bottom 99%.
 
2011-10-04 03:00:07 PM

aselene: The inconsequential people should know their place in life.


cache.ohinternet.com
 
2011-10-04 03:00:26 PM
I am curious to see how long into the cold weather this lasts. Winters here are furious, and the park they are camped in is like a wind tunnel. It's already getting a bit nippy out there.
 
2011-10-04 03:01:49 PM
It's funny that some of you thin that taxes on the very wealthy won't be increasing. The GOP will get on board and sell your assess right out the second the polls indicate that it's the politically savvy thing to do.

They'll run Romney in the general and let the Tea Party make assholes out of themselves with some sort of bastard independent ticket.
 
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