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(Salon)   How Conservatism conquered America   (salon.com) divider line 273
    More: Scary, American Conservatism, American Left, criminal justice system, Karl Marx  
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7091 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Oct 2011 at 12:24 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-10-02 10:23:47 AM
Idiocracy always triumphs.
 
2011-10-02 10:26:12 AM
It's always easier to win when you're the ones with suitcases full of bribe money.
 
2011-10-02 10:39:52 AM

Marcus Aurelius: It's always easier to win when you're the ones with suitcases full of bribe money.


With SuperPac's and electronic transfers, it makes you miss the good old days when they actually had to work with the suitcases full of cash.
 
2011-10-02 10:47:04 AM

mrshowrules: Marcus Aurelius: It's always easier to win when you're the ones with suitcases full of bribe money.

With SuperPac's and electronic transfers, it makes you miss the good old days when they actually had to work with the suitcases full of cash.


I miss the good old days when senators and congressmen went to jail for accepting bribes. Abscam is a big reason Congress voted to legalize it.

Bastards.
 
2011-10-02 10:51:13 AM
step 1: Claim government is ineffective
step 2: Hold up government
step 3: goto step 1
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2011-10-02 10:53:24 AM
The Stephen Colbert video linked below very clearly demonstrates how corporations can very easily and secretly donate $100's of millions of dollars to politicians and political agendas.

This year Karl Rove's political Pac has a goal of secretly collecting 1/4 of a billion dollars from US corporations and billionaires to fund the elimination of US environmental laws.

Expect to see a massive reduction in laws protecting the public from dangerous products, contaminated food, water and air, in the next couple years.


Link (Video Link)
 
2011-10-02 10:54:48 AM
How conservatism conquered America
The right-wing movement has won nearly every battle it has fought.


Really? Is that why we have out of control spending and massive growth of gov't in the US? Is that why tens of thousands of new lines of regulations are passed every year?

I would say that the Left is winning its battle for total gov't control over the people.
 
2011-10-02 10:59:48 AM

MeinRS6: How conservatism conquered America
The right-wing movement has won nearly every battle it has fought.

Really? Is that why we have out of control spending and massive growth of gov't in the US? Is that why tens of thousands of new lines of regulations are passed every year?

I would say that the Left is winning its battle for total gov't control over the people.


you must masturbate to Sinclair's The Jungle

//wants to open a The Jungle theme park for Tea Partiers
///will serve "thumb hot dogs" and "rat poop fries"
 
2011-10-02 11:08:46 AM
By telling everyone to be afraid of their neighbor and especially to be afraid of the scary black guy?
 
2011-10-02 11:11:03 AM
Never underestimate the power of idiots in large groups.

Are 2 morans and a dead man really the message they want to send when putting the pics with the article
 
2011-10-02 11:15:59 AM

NFA: The Stephen Colbert video linked below very clearly demonstrates how corporations can very easily and secretly donate $100's of millions of dollars to politicians and political agendas.

This year Karl Rove's political Pac has a goal of secretly collecting 1/4 of a billion dollars from US corporations and billionaires to fund the elimination of US environmental laws.

Expect to see a massive reduction in laws protecting the public from dangerous products, contaminated food, water and air, in the next couple years.


Link (Video Link)


Is Rove literally the most evil man in the world?
 
2011-10-02 11:37:35 AM

MeinRS6: How conservatism conquered America
The right-wing movement has won nearly every battle it has fought.

Really? Is that why we have out of control spending and massive growth of gov't in the US? Is that why tens of thousands of new lines of regulations are passed every year?

I would say that the Left is winning its battle for total gov't control over the people.


Not that you'd appreciate the distinction, but it's the government that's shooting for government domination. The Homeland Security department and the Patriot Act and the Medicare give-away were all passed by a 100% GOP controlled congress and White House.

Unless of course you consider them "liberals".
 
2011-10-02 11:52:09 AM

MeinRS6: Really? Is that why we have out of control spending and massive growth of gov't in the US?


somosrepublicans.com
 
2011-10-02 11:53:57 AM
I read enough of the article to call BS. Just because this country is not the liberal utopia the guy that was interviewed imagines certainly does not mean conservatism has "won". Abortion is still legal. Minorities and women have as much equality as any time in our country's history. SS and welfare are still very much alive despite the conservatives many attempts to kill them. A national health care law has been passed that certainly isn't perfect, but it is a definite step in the right direction. Gays can now serve openly in the military. Porn is freely available. Not too long ago a judge in York, Pa. threw the creationist out of our public schools.

These are just a few examples of how conservatives have actually lost. It goes a long way in explaining why they are so frightened and angry, longing for the good old days of the 50s with the back alley abortions and the minorities and gays knowing their place and women barefoot in the kitchen where they belonged.

We still have a long way to go, but claiming that conservatives have "won" anything is ignoring history.
 
2011-10-02 12:05:36 PM

MeinRS6: How conservatism conquered America
The right-wing movement has won nearly every battle it has fought.

Really? Is that why we have out of control spending and massive growth of gov't in the US? Is that why tens of thousands of new lines of regulations are passed every year?

I would say that the Left is winning its battle for total gov't control over the people.


Right, cause it's not like the Republics passed Medicare Part D and left it completely unfunded, started wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and left them completely unfunded, or increased spending on corporate welfare queens and left those programs completely unfunded.
 
2011-10-02 12:07:47 PM
Maybe you guys should stop believing the lie that conservatism is about small government and lowered spending and accept the fact that it's just as big government and just as big spending as the liberals.

The only difference is which aspects of the government are expanded and where that money is spent.
 
2011-10-02 12:10:47 PM

Serious Black: MeinRS6: How conservatism conquered America
The right-wing movement has won nearly every battle it has fought.

Really? Is that why we have out of control spending and massive growth of gov't in the US? Is that why tens of thousands of new lines of regulations are passed every year?

I would say that the Left is winning its battle for total gov't control over the people.

Right, cause it's not like the Republics passed Medicare Part D and left it completely unfunded, started wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and left them completely unfunded, or increased spending on corporate welfare queens and left those programs completely unfunded.


Don't forget the TSA.
 
2011-10-02 12:16:44 PM
Conservatism hasn't taken over America. Corporatism has.

Would that there were some honest to goodness real conservatives anywhere in our federal government. They would be welcome by this progressive if it meant we could banish the corporate fellators from both parties and have a meaningful debate over the legitimate role of government in society.

/not making a "both sides are bad so vote Republican" argument
//Republicans are mostly to blame by a WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIDE margin
 
2011-10-02 12:18:07 PM

GAT_00: Serious Black: MeinRS6: How conservatism conquered America
The right-wing movement has won nearly every battle it has fought.

Really? Is that why we have out of control spending and massive growth of gov't in the US? Is that why tens of thousands of new lines of regulations are passed every year?

I would say that the Left is winning its battle for total gov't control over the people.

Right, cause it's not like the Republics passed Medicare Part D and left it completely unfunded, started wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and left them completely unfunded, or increased spending on corporate welfare queens and left those programs completely unfunded.

Don't forget the TSA.


Of course! How could I forget the TSA and the PATRIOT Act? That was moronic of me. I guess we could also include No Child Left Behind (or as I like to call it, No Child Gets a Head).
 
2011-10-02 12:19:36 PM

MeinRS6: Really? Is that why we have out of control spending and massive growth of gov't in the US?


Because you totally cared about that stuff before January 2009.
 
2011-10-02 12:26:20 PM

Marcus Aurelius: MeinRS6: How conservatism conquered America
The right-wing movement has won nearly every battle it has fought.

Really? Is that why we have out of control spending and massive growth of gov't in the US? Is that why tens of thousands of new lines of regulations are passed every year?

I would say that the Left is winning its battle for total gov't control over the people.

Not that you'd appreciate the distinction, but it's the government that's shooting for government domination. The Homeland Security department and the Patriot Act and the Medicare give-away were all passed by a 100% GOP controlled congress and White House.

Unless of course you consider them "liberals".


The title of the article said "Conservatism" not Republicans. It is impossible to make the argument that the US gov't has been following a conservative path, as some others on the thread have already pointed out.
 
2011-10-02 12:27:28 PM
I love the implication that conservatism suddenly "took over" this country.

Like we were so liberal before....
 
2011-10-02 12:28:21 PM

Rev.K: MeinRS6: Really? Is that why we have out of control spending and massive growth of gov't in the US?

Because you totally cared about that stuff before January 2009.


Yes. I did. You put me in charge of the gov't and I would undo the last decade of gov't expansion and spending in the first week. And you know what - we'd be better off for it.
 
2011-10-02 12:30:40 PM

MeinRS6: Marcus Aurelius: MeinRS6: How conservatism conquered America
The right-wing movement has won nearly every battle it has fought.

Really? Is that why we have out of control spending and massive growth of gov't in the US? Is that why tens of thousands of new lines of regulations are passed every year?

I would say that the Left is winning its battle for total gov't control over the people.

Not that you'd appreciate the distinction, but it's the government that's shooting for government domination. The Homeland Security department and the Patriot Act and the Medicare give-away were all passed by a 100% GOP controlled congress and White House.

Unless of course you consider them "liberals".

The title of the article said "Conservatism" not Republicans. It is impossible to make the argument that the US gov't has been following a conservative path, as some others on the thread have already pointed out.


Is that why three out of every four self-identified conservatives still approve of the job George W. Bush did in office?
 
2011-10-02 12:31:49 PM

MeinRS6: How conservatism conquered America
The right-wing movement has won nearly every battle it has fought.

Really? Is that why we have out of control spending and massive growth of gov't in the US? Is that why tens of thousands of new lines of regulations are passed every year?

I would say that the Left is winning its battle for total gov't control over the people.


Actually, the right put most of that spending in place, via the GWoT. As for the regulations, guess who put most of them there. HINT "starboard". Just because their stated goals weren't fulfilled, doesn't mean that they lost or that their unstated goals didn't get fulfilled.
 
2011-10-02 12:31:56 PM
If you tell enough little folksy truths, you can get away with telling huge lies.
 
2011-10-02 12:33:51 PM
How conservatism has come to replace and subvert western democracy is detailed here .
 
2011-10-02 12:34:52 PM
its not a fair fight; conservatism is in the wrong weight class;

it shouldn't be allowed to beat up on weak, unsupportable ideologies like liberalism and Democrats who lack the moral courage to live within their means, go to church, serve in the military, and repeat the party line,

conservatism will be in trouble if a new party comes along with defensible ideas, and populated by people who dont ridicule and demonize the other side but rather engage is a dialogue of ideas about how to job.create and government.cut and stop shoveling borrowed money to to welfare queens and unsustainable solar companies with political connections.

also, kenya, black, muslim, socialism, saul alinsky, vacations, Target, 57 states and arugula
 
2011-10-02 12:35:43 PM

Tor_Eckman: I read enough of the article to call BS. Just because this country is not the liberal utopia the guy that was interviewed imagines certainly does not mean conservatism has "won". Abortion is still legal. Minorities and women have as much equality as any time in our country's history. SS and welfare are still very much alive despite the conservatives many attempts to kill them. A national health care law has been passed that certainly isn't perfect, but it is a definite step in the right direction. Gays can now serve openly in the military. Porn is freely available. Not too long ago a judge in York, Pa. threw the creationist out of our public schools.

These are just a few examples of how conservatives have actually lost. It goes a long way in explaining why they are so frightened and angry, longing for the good old days of the 50s with the back alley abortions and the minorities and gays knowing their place and women barefoot in the kitchen where they belonged.

We still have a long way to go, but claiming that conservatives have "won" anything is ignoring history.


Yeah, right, it was actually an Irishman in disguise...
 
2011-10-02 12:36:27 PM

soup sandwich: but rather engage is a dialogue of ideas about how to job.create and government.cut and stop shoveling borrowed money to to welfare queens and unsustainable solar companies with political connections.


I'm not sure I would want a dialogue with someone who has an attitude like this.

"Welfare queens?" "Unsustainable solar companies?"

What is this, the 1970s?
 
2011-10-02 12:36:48 PM

Tor_Eckman: I read enough of the article to call BS. Just because this country is not the liberal utopia the guy that was interviewed imagines certainly does not mean conservatism has "won". Abortion is still legal. Minorities and women have as much equality as any time in our country's history. SS and welfare are still very much alive despite the conservatives many attempts to kill them. A national health care law has been passed that certainly isn't perfect, but it is a definite step in the right direction. Gays can now serve openly in the military. Porn is freely available. Not too long ago a judge in York, Pa. threw the creationist out of our public schools.

These are just a few examples of how conservatives have actually lost. It goes a long way in explaining why they are so frightened and angry, longing for the good old days of the 50s with the back alley abortions and the minorities and gays knowing their place and women barefoot in the kitchen where they belonged.

We still have a long way to go, but claiming that conservatives have "won" anything is ignoring history.




None of that will matter if wealth disparity and the atrophy of social mobility continue as it has since 1980.
 
2011-10-02 12:36:55 PM
How Conservatism conquered destroyed America

Though, is the GOP really conservative? I see them more like (batshiat crazy and / or corrupt) reactionaries rather than conservatives. The democrats, those are the conservatives in the US. Not sure if there are any liberals in the US at all.
 
2011-10-02 12:38:51 PM

whidbey: I love the implication that conservatism suddenly "took over" this country.

Like we were so liberal before....


It had at least seemed in 2000 that liberalism was working. You know, 200 million had been paid down on the debt, the USA was prospering, people were employed and happy...
Then a group of Republicans decided this was a bad thing.
 
2011-10-02 12:39:31 PM

MeinRS6: How conservatism conquered America
The right-wing movement has won nearly every battle it has fought.

Really? Is that why we have out of control spending and massive growth of gov't in the US? Is that why tens of thousands of new lines of regulations are passed every year?

I would say that the Left is winning its battle for total gov't control over the people.

We're in this debt because of the right wing refusal to pay for the benefits of government, or as my mother said back under Regan their "borrow, borrow, spend spend" attitude. At least the left wing is patriotic enough to want to pay for the benefits of having a strong government.
 
2011-10-02 12:39:45 PM

Uncle Tractor: Not sure if there are any liberals in the US at all.


Hey!
 
2011-10-02 12:40:06 PM

soup sandwich: and stop shoveling borrowed money to to welfare queens


i269.photobucket.com

conservatives don't have a problem with welfare queens as long as they're the welfare queens.
 
2011-10-02 12:41:18 PM

I Like Bread: whidbey: I love the implication that conservatism suddenly "took over" this country.

Like we were so liberal before....

It had at least seemed in 2000 that liberalism was working. You know, 200 million had been paid down on the debt, the USA was prospering, people were employed and happy...


I agree, but Clinton wasn't a liberal.

Then a group of Republicans decided this was a bad thing.

Well, they do that...
 
2011-10-02 12:42:11 PM
salon.com - yeah, that's about what I expected.
 
2011-10-02 12:47:15 PM
1 word: Religion
 
hej
2011-10-02 12:51:04 PM
 
2011-10-02 12:51:13 PM

soup sandwich: its not a fair fight; conservatism is in the wrong weight class;

it shouldn't be allowed to beat up on weak, unsupportable ideologies like liberalism and Democrats who lack the moral courage to live within their means, go to church, serve in the military, and repeat the party line,

conservatism will be in trouble if a new party comes along with defensible ideas, and populated by people who dont ridicule and demonize the other side but rather engage is a dialogue of ideas about how to job.create and government.cut and stop shoveling borrowed money to to welfare queens and unsustainable solar companies with political connections.

also, kenya, black, muslim, socialism, saul alinsky, vacations, Target, 57 states and arugula


You forgot "Solyndra" and "$16 muffin."
 
2011-10-02 12:52:16 PM
1) corporate cronyism
2) media manipulation
3) voter suppression
 
2011-10-02 12:52:24 PM
rlv.zcache.com

The fact that just about all the "liberal drive-by" media outlets are now owned by a few multinational megacorps whose only reason for existence is to make ever larger profits is probably a very big factor.

The legalized bribing of politicians in the form of "campaign contributions" is no doubt another.

Also, there's the two-party duopololy, gerrymandering and a crappy, underfunded public school system that doesn't emphasize civics or critical thinking.

Don't forget the role of organized religion in all of this! If you can teach most of the population to believe a bunch of obvious nonsense in spite of all the evidence to the contrary then you can get away with A LOT.

Finally, there's the fact that most Americans are trapped in awful jobs that leave them overwhelmed, exhausted, sleep-deprived and often afraid of ending up homeless. Such people are easily manipulated.

Face it: in a sane, healthy society the sociopaths in power today wouldn't be holding office or running Wall street-- they would probably be institutionalized.

We are almost at a VERY dangerous crossroads in American history. One more bad hit to our economy (maybe from the fallout from the Euro's collapse) and/or bad terrorist attack and we just might end up an all-out facist state-- one with thousands of fusion bombs and the ability to deliver them anywhere on the planet in under half an hour.

=============

Remember, kids! According to most conservatives, the government is totally incompetent and can't be trusted to do ANYHING right...

...Except to fund and decide when to use the most powerful and expensive military in the history of the world.

...Except to decide what substances can or cannot be put in your body.

...Except to decide who it is OK to fall in love with and marry.

...Except to monitor and record all of our phone calls and Internet use.

...Except to decide who is an "enemy of the state" and can be locked up, tortured or killed without trial.

...Except to decide for you when or if you can have an abortion.

...Except to decide for you when it's time to let you or a loved one trapped in a coma or agonizing pain due to illness be allowed to die.

...Except to decide which God it's OK to worship to and how to do it.

...Except to maintain and decide when to use a nuclear arsenal that could wipe out all human life on the planet.

Just those and a few other minor things. And that's ALL we can trust that horribly incompetent government with.
 
2011-10-02 12:52:43 PM

Britney Spear's Speculum: 1 word: Religion


I think religion and using religion as a wedge are different things. At one time Christian socialism had a substantial following in this country.
 
2011-10-02 12:53:49 PM

Uncle Tractor: Not sure if there are any liberals in the US at all.


There are. And there are a lot of them. They just don't have a voice. Many think that the Democratic party still represents them.

They're not organized, and they don't have a vision for the country or how they want to achieve it.
 
2011-10-02 12:57:37 PM
That author is delusional.
 
2011-10-02 01:16:11 PM
The author is, ironically, demonstrating why liberals and democrats are unable to get things done: he just declares 'victory' for 'conservatism'.

Well then. I guess it's time to officially give up.
 
2011-10-02 01:18:14 PM

whidbey: I'm not sure I would want a dialogue with someone who has an attitude like this.

"Welfare queens?" "Unsustainable solar companies?"

What is this, the 1970s?


Poe's Law. He tipped his hand with his last line.

"Conservatism" (read: corporatist neo-feudalism and kleptocracy) frames the dialogue in America because it has all the money, and can buy all the legislators it needs. As of late, its only failing has been a greed-driven inability to throw enough meat to its lessers to keep them oblivious.

No war but class war, and no time like the present.
 
2011-10-02 01:23:26 PM
It's not so much "victory" as "scorched earth tactics". But the good guys can win, are winning and will win this; the right has innate advantages and is still overreaching far too much and, year-by-year, diminishing their voting base.

100 years from now the rightists will be trying to claim that victories on gay rights, public health care and renewable energy were theirs.
 
2011-10-02 01:24:04 PM

Occam's Chainsaw: whidbey: I'm not sure I would want a dialogue with someone who has an attitude like this.

"Welfare queens?" "Unsustainable solar companies?"

What is this, the 1970s?

Poe's Law. He tipped his hand with his last line.

"Conservatism" (read: corporatist neo-feudalism and kleptocracy) frames the dialogue in America because it has all the money, and can buy all the legislators it needs. As of late, its only failing has been a greed-driven inability to throw enough meat to its lessers to keep them oblivious.

No war but class war, and no time like the present.


the best/worst part is watching the Republicrats close ranks to keep third parties from mixing it up and maybe changing things for the better. sure, the Republcans hate the Democrats, but they BOTH hate to dilute their authority even more.
 
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