But why did he feel the need to address these concerns by moving into Chicago's gay village, with its sex shops, gay bars and saunas?

Because he's never had so much cock in his life as he's getting now.

slayer199: I never got the Christian homophobia. In the New Testament you're supposed to love everyone and God is the one to do the judging. This guy seems to get it.

That's what the United Methodists practice.... not to be confused with Evangelical Methodists (like Perry).

Immediately takes off his pants?

Cythraul: FTA: "That is no small achievement in a culture where openly gay people and evangelical Christians have long viewed each other with suspicion."

I have no problem with evangelicals. It's when they start telling me I'm going to burn in hell for all eternity and that I'm an abomination under God's eyes, that's when I start having a problem with them. And when they start to legislate on those beliefs, that's when I really start to have a problem with them.

Maybe he has a point, though. I'd definitely be suspicious of any evangelical trolling around my local gay bar. I'd find it hard to believe that his intentions are based in altruism, rather than a desire to proselytise or to 'witness,' as some call it now.

He is cute though. I bet he gets all the closet case chasers after him.

You'll notice there is no mention of a spouse or gf for him.
Look forward to his coming out party.
i don't believe his intentions are altruistic.

/gaydar activated

gilgigamesh: He gets nailed on a thick piece of wood?

Heh.
On, or by.

...convinces people to buy him drinks?

It's sad that Christians following the teachings of Jesus is so unusual

That is the hope of Andrew Marin - who has spent the last decade living in Boystown, Chicago's officially-designated neighbourhood for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender (GLBT) residents.

you know who else used "officially designated" neighborhoods??

seriously, if gays weren't so "open" with their sexuality, maybe they wouldn't need to be contained.

Take it down a notch Serge, your business should be kept to yourself.

FTA: "Sitting opposite him was Brian, who also says he's always known he was gay - but whose traditional theology meant he chose to marry a woman and has since fathered a child."

I just threw up in my mouth. living a lie because of a book based on a book, based on a book, based on even more versions of a book, based on a story, based on this thing that someone said they heard from some dude who wasn't there, but knew someone who was.

All christians are hatefull bigots...sky wizard...hypocrits...hate brown people...flying pasghetti monster!

it's close though...

I'm here for the gangbang.

Im more offend by my roomate getting banged out on the living room couch than I am by this

Dirtybird971: seriously, if gays weren't so "open" with their sexuality, maybe they wouldn't need to be contained.

Whoa, they live there by choice, not to be contained.
Gays have just as much right to be open about who they are as heteros.

claimed he could lick every man in the place?

slayer199: I never got the Christian homophobia. In the New Testament you're supposed to love everyone and God is the one to do the judging. This guy seems to get it.

See that's my problem with the more fundamentalist view. Even when I was a believer I thought as you described, but there were always those around me who were of the "if god hates it, I have to hate it too" mindset. The bigotry and hypocrisy of that thinking is part of what started me questioning the whole deal.

slayer199: I never got the Christian homophobia. In the New Testament you're supposed to love everyone and God is the one to do the judging. This guy seems to get it.

Eh, sort of. See, you've still got Paul....

"Claiming to be wise, they became fools,and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them." - Romans 1:22-32


This passage pretty clearly equates homosexuality as a shameful behavior that God gives people over to when they reject him, in the same breath as "envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness."

Now, people will say then that Paul was speaking from the perspective of his time, and that Jesus is not recorded as saying anything about homosexuality. This is technically correct, but not an easy perspective to take for evangelicals who consider the bible authoritative: Paul, in the book of Romans, lays out the very core of the Christian kerygma in more clarity and depth than anywhere else in the New Testament. The writings of Paul in all likelihood influenced the doctrinal content of the Gospels, and bluntly, without Paul, Christianity is not the same religion. You can't cast doubt out Paul's assertion that lesbianism is "contrary to nature" without also casting doubt on "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God," or claim that "I do not permit a woman to speak" was just Paul's opinion, but that "while we were still sinners, Christ died for us" isn't.

I understand that there are many Christians who accept homosexuals. I think that's great. I'm familiar with a lot of their reasoning, and I think that their exegeses do tend to be a little more nuanced and intelligent than those of fundamentalists. My point is that accommodating homosexuality tends to savage the "God/The bible said it, I believe it, that settles it" hermeneutic that fundamentalists and most evangelicals love, and as such it's unsurprising that many aren't willing to even consider the idea.

Brandyelf: slayer199: I never got the Christian homophobia. In the New Testament you're supposed to love everyone and God is the one to do the judging. This guy seems to get it.

That's what the United Methodists practice.... not to be confused with Evangelical Methodists (like Perry).

Sadly not all United Methodist churches are there yet. I'm in the Baltimore-Washington Conference which is one of the more progressive in the nation and we're still struggling with it. The youth I work with want to see the change made, and whether people like it or not, young people tend to be the factor. I see a whole scale change taking place in the next 10years.

Reconciling congregations are the way to go.

Jesus didn't approve of sin. He didn't try to "sympathize" with it. He demanded repentance and died for our inability to live righteously.

I don't know evangelicals that condemn people to hell for all eternity as submitters suggest. If Jesus saved us from hell, why would any believer worry about it? My guess is those submitters are just lying, or their "evangelical Christians" were undercover atheists (we had one "fire and brimstone" preacher on campus admit to being a hired actor at one point).

Anyways, this guy FTA is gay. gay, gay, gay. He's obviously in crisis of faith because he KNOWS it's incompatible with the gospel (in the same way someone who compulsively steals or lies is incompatible with it) because the gospel says Jesus died for our sins, and it is belief in this which saves. To believe in this, it follows I need to believe I have sinned, at least according to the Bible. Ergo, I need to believe stealing, cheating, lying, gay sex, etc are all sins.

Seriously, I don't know why homosexuality gets such special treatment. Why is it the most popular sin to isolate from the Bible and say "But this sin, THIS SIN, does not matter, because it hurts people's feelings to call it a sin. No way Jesus died for THIS sin, because no way it's a sin!" It's ridiculous. Look, YOU already don't believe the Bible. Why so important to any of you to tell Christians what their Bible tells THEM to believe.

Someone pushed in his stool?

...turned the bar stools upside-down to seat more customers at the bar?

/I'm already going to Hell, so why not?

"To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some." - 1 Corinthians 9:20-22

/He gets it.
//If only the rest of us did too.
///Lutheran

Matthew 21:31(b): Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are going into the kingdom of God ahead of you."

These were just about the most maligned sinners of the time, but, sorry, they're the ones who are going to go to heaven first. I'm pretty sure if Jesus were here today, he would say to grandstanding Christians, "Truly I tell you, the gays and the weed-smokers are going into the kingdom of God ahead of you."

Irving Maimway: I can't find ANYTHING in the Gospels about being gay or having an abortion.

There's a lot about money and adultery, and not judging other people, but Christ didn't have shiat to say about the two prime movers of the "Christian" Right.

xanadian:
Here, lemme help: Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." (new window)

This is my Bullshiat Meter. Anything a "Christian" says is God's Word, I use this little reality check to see if it's true or Bullshiat.

THIS. Greg Boyd makes the comment (and I'm paraphrasing) that if you're doing something in Christ's name and it doesn't look like Him dying on the cross in an act of pure and total sacrifice for people he'd never even met, it's not what Christ would do.

And He also made a comment about not drawing attention to yourself, just go about your life, quietly doing good and the only person who really counts will know what you've done and acknowledge it. Sadly, the Right totally misses this point too. Most real Christ followers live lives just like this: quietly doing their best to make the world a better place and reflect Christ's love and forgiveness out to the rest of the world.

Well here are some sources for your research:

Link (new window)
Link (new window)
Link (new window)

Not saying I agree with it, just saying there's plenty to read on the subject.

...a woman who self-defines as "queer" and who left the church because of its attitude towards homosexuality.

It's good to know that other people are also confused about whether to address some folks as "he" or "she."

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

/Ow! Mom stop that!

Iniamyen1: ...a woman who self-defines as "queer" and who left the church because of its attitude towards homosexuality.

It's good to know that other people are also confused about whether to address some folks as "he" or "she."

Not sure if you're kidding or not....? But just in case, "it" is referring to the church.

"Why conservative Christians flock to a Chicago gay bar"


Easy answer. The blow job you get there are far superior to the ones you can get at home.

xkillyourfacex: Jesus didn't approve of sin. He didn't try to "sympathize" with it. He demanded repentance and died for our inability to live righteously.

I don't know evangelicals that condemn people to hell for all eternity as submitters suggest. If Jesus saved us from hell, why would any believer worry about it? My guess is those submitters are just lying, or their "evangelical Christians" were undercover atheists (we had one "fire and brimstone" preacher on campus admit to being a hired actor at one point).

Anyways, this guy FTA is gay. gay, gay, gay. He's obviously in crisis of faith because he KNOWS it's incompatible with the gospel (in the same way someone who compulsively steals or lies is incompatible with it) because the gospel says Jesus died for our sins, and it is belief in this which saves. To believe in this, it follows I need to believe I have sinned, at least according to the Bible. Ergo, I need to believe stealing, cheating, lying, gay sex, etc are all sins.

Seriously, I don't know why homosexuality gets such special treatment. Why is it the most popular sin to isolate from the Bible and say "But this sin, THIS SIN, does not matter, because it hurts people's feelings to call it a sin. No way Jesus died for THIS sin, because no way it's a sin!" It's ridiculous. Look, YOU already don't believe the Bible. Why so important to any of you to tell Christians what their Bible tells THEM to believe.



But really, want to know why some of us get irritated by the fundamentalist view?

This comic sums it up:

Dr. Moonlight: Matthew 21:31(b): Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are going into the kingdom of God ahead of you."

These were just about the most maligned sinners of the time, but, sorry, they're the ones who are going to go to heaven first. I'm pretty sure if Jesus were here today, he would say to grandstanding Christians, "Truly I tell you, the gays and the weed-smokers are going into the kingdom of God ahead of you."


Let me play devil's advocate for a minute here, and ask that you consider this passage in the context of the other verse that abb3w quoted:

On hearing this, Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Jesus hung around with the undesirables, but still called them sinners, or "sick" and "need[ing]" a doctor. Would it be reasonable to interpret the Matthew 21:31 passage as saying that the tax collector and prostitutes would make it to heaven before the Pharisees not because tax collecting and prostitution were acceptable, but because unlike the Pharisees they recognized how depraved they were and how much they needed to change?

Hugs and kisses for everybody!

/skimpy tighty whities

I've been to Roscoe's. Their pink lemonades will put you in a coma. But oh, what a ride!

Sofa King Smart: claimed he could lick every man in the place?



/lol

GooberMcFly: JESUS WOULD NEVER DO THIS.

/oh wait

No but he would do that boy who ran naked with only a light cloth over him in the garden.

Righteous butt sinners
heh heh

verily merily I say

But why did he feel the need to address these concerns by moving into Chicago's gay village, with its sex shops, gay bars and saunas?

Well, obviously...



... because he's gay. Gay as a three dollar bill.

Iniamyen1: ...a woman who self-defines as "queer" and who left the church because of its attitude towards homosexuality.

It's good to know that other people are also confused about whether to address some folks as "he" or "she."

LOL okay here's the deal, when there's a dress, net lace nylons and an awesom wig involved you say "HER or SHE. or HOT MAMA.

Geeze

xkillyourfacex: Jesus didn't approve of sin. He didn't try to "sympathize" with it. He demanded repentance and died for our inability to live righteously.

I don't know evangelicals that condemn people to hell for all eternity as submitters suggest. If Jesus saved us from hell, why would any believer worry about it? My guess is those submitters are just lying, or their "evangelical Christians" were undercover atheists (we had one "fire and brimstone" preacher on campus admit to being a hired actor at one point).

Anyways, this guy FTA is gay. gay, gay, gay. He's obviously in crisis of faith because he KNOWS it's incompatible with the gospel (in the same way someone who compulsively steals or lies is incompatible with it) because the gospel says Jesus died for our sins, and it is belief in this which saves. To believe in this, it follows I need to believe I have sinned, at least according to the Bible. Ergo, I need to believe stealing, cheating, lying, gay sex, etc are all sins.

Seriously, I don't know why homosexuality gets such special treatment. Why is it the most popular sin to isolate from the Bible and say "But this sin, THIS SIN, does not matter, because it hurts people's feelings to call it a sin. No way Jesus died for THIS sin, because no way it's a sin!" It's ridiculous. Look, YOU already don't believe the Bible. Why so important to any of you to tell Christians what their Bible tells THEM to believe.

Okay first off Jesus was never really real, so you're whole point is entirely invalid. But let's continue to pretend that he is, so I can argue a bit more.

You say the people saying others are going to go to hell are atheist, but there is no denial in the fact that hate groups like the Westboro Baptist are Christian, and they sure like to throw around the "fire and brimstone".

Also why does being gay receive such special treatment. I mean it's still against your god to shave sideburns, eat shellfish, work on Sunday, eat pork, wear clothes with cotton/wool blend, touch menstruating women, tell a dirty joke, and a list of hundreds of other sins, a lot of which are mention more times then homosexuality. Yet there are no bans on Red Lobsters, barber shops, or cheap sweaters!

teflon: "To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some." - 1 Corinthians 9:20-22

/He gets it.


I get that he's two faced

/and wishy washy
//and a flip flopper

Fark you, you little self-righteous pilgrim. For myself, I don't want any "bridged built" between me and the evangelicals. I want you to go away and leave me alone.

What makes these asshole religionists think any and all human interaction needs a side order of their foolishness?

gshepnyc: Fark you, you little self-righteous pilgrim. For myself, I don't want any "bridged built" between me and the evangelicals. I want you to go away and leave me alone.

What makes these asshole religionists think any and all human interaction needs a side order of their foolishness?

This. Keep your bridges to yourselves, fundies. I promise not to bother you if you don't bother me. Not that that will ever happen, it's right there in the title: "Evangelical."

Irving Maimway: I can't find ANYTHING in the Gospels about being gay or having an abortion.

I'll help with the abortion thing. I'm a Christian who opposes abortion. However, I don't argue that belief with people because it's not really a religious argument. It's a scientific one or one of definitions.

There is no hard definition of when life begins. It can be breath, heart beat, or a number of other things. There are non-religious scientists who believe "life" starts before birth, and religious people who believe it starts at birth. Most people use the moment of birth as the time a baby has rights, which allows them to not be against abortion. Most conservative people believe otherwise. My personal belief is that life beginning at birth goes against other legal findings (such as when a person is found guilty of murdering an unborn child [link (new window)]).

The reason many people are anti-abortion is because they feel it is murder of a living thing, even if that thing has not been born yet.

I don't attend anti-abortion events, vote based on my stance of abortion, or believe it should be outlawed, but I am anti-abortion.

So Chicago has Gheytto?

asks if there is a boy he can hire to help him lift his luggage on long luxurious vacations?

Osomatic: gshepnyc: Fark you, you little self-righteous pilgrim. For myself, I don't want any "bridged built" between me and the evangelicals. I want you to go away and leave me alone.

What makes these asshole religionists think any and all human interaction needs a side order of their foolishness?

This. Keep your bridges to yourselves, fundies. I promise not to bother you if you don't bother me. Not that that will ever happen, it's right there in the title: "Evangelical."

You guys are wrong-headed about this. What if, just if, this man and other like him could open a dialog between gays and evangelicals and foster understanding and acceptance? It that not at least worth a try? A lot of evangelicals hod the beliefs they do because it is all they've ever been taught. Everyone going off into their separate corners and saying "I won't bug you if you don't bug me" only perpetuates intolerance.

Cythraul [TotalFark] and smeegle


got two today.

Oh! smeegle I know it is, and cythraul 'thank you' but I am not God.

Cythraul: JackieRabbit: Osomatic: gshepnyc: Fark you, you little self-righteous pilgrim. For myself, I don't want any "bridged built" between me and the evangelicals. I want you to go away and leave me alone.

What makes these asshole religionists think any and all human interaction needs a side order of their foolishness?

This. Keep your bridges to yourselves, fundies. I promise not to bother you if you don't bother me. Not that that will ever happen, it's right there in the title: "Evangelical."

You guys are wrong-headed about this. What if, just if, this man and other like him could open a dialog between gays and evangelicals and foster understanding and acceptance? It that not at least worth a try? A lot of evangelicals hod the beliefs they do because it is all they've ever been taught. Everyone going off into their separate corners and saying "I won't bug you if you don't bug me" only perpetuates intolerance.

It would be kinda hard for them to build bridges with me since I'm a borderline Atheist, homosexuality not being considered. A man like this were to approach me talking about God's love and all that tripe, I'd flat out tell him that I do not believe in his magical sky fairy and about how much harm organized religion has caused to this world, and that'd probably be the end of the conversation.

But if this cat really wants to show understanding and 'build bridges', he can tell his fellow religious zealots to stop calling for gay marriage bans. Then we'll talk.

I'm not trying to beat you up, but please read what you just wrote and honestly ask yourself if this approach is ever going to get you anywhere. I know Christian evangelicals can be a royal pain in the butt, especially the ones who have been politicized. But most are just ordinary people trying to find a spiritual path through life. Calling the god in which they believe a "magical sky fairy" is at best inflammatory and at worst makes you seem as close-minded as you claim them to be. It immediately shuts them down to you. What good is a monologue? I don't debate religion or spirituality with a born-again. It's a waste of time. But that doesn't mean that I shouldn't proceed by treating them with kindness, understanding and respect in my daily dealing with them. Civility is becoming so rare. We all have to live here together and without civility, it's not very pleasant.

penthesilea: Paul was a dick very likely mistranslated.

FTFY

If you look at the original translation of what he wrote, the word used that was translated into "homosexuality" was rather odd. First, because there was already a different word that was used to describe it, and second because the exact same word that he used that was translated into "homosexuality" is also used to describe other sexual sin-- particularly temple prostitution.

There is a very small possibility that Paul was in fact talking about homosexuals, but it's highly unlikely and would require him to completely change his speaking style for that one thing. Kind of like if I asked for french fries all the time and then suddenly asked for chips-- at which point you assumed I wanted more french fries. Yeah, I could have suddenly switched my vernacular to the British term for french fries. But the most likely possibility is that I want what most Americans would identify as potato chips.

penthesilea: Paul was a dick.

On the other hand, Paul was in fact a dick, particularly during his early years. But then again he never claimed to be a deity or without flaw-- which is an important distinction that many fundamentalist Christians seem to overlook. And as Jesus pointed out, the last guy who wrote scripture for God (Moses) managed to foul it up royally.

I think people would be shocked at the numbers of Evangelical Christians who can be found in gay bars. Usually in the bathrooms.

No Sean Astin references? really?

Cythraul: Plenty of evidence out there to prove that their magical sky fairy is just that. Two thousand years of human misery performed in the name of God should be enough, in my opinion. In short, I'll give you a House quote, "If you could reason with religious people there would be no religious people."

Again, I'm not the one out there trying to pass laws forbidding state(s) from recognizing 'Christian Marriage.' They started this fight, they're the ones being irrational about it, and I'm the one who's supposed to keep and open mind, about them? I don't think so.

So what? You're good at missing the point. And what if YOU are wrong? I'm not suggesting that you take Pascal's Wager, just let them believe what they want. And stop blaming Christians for 2000 years of misery. You do know that most of the misery was caused by people who committed their crimes in the name of god because it was politically expedient to do so? None of that has anything to do with what a true Christian believes. I'm not saying they are right, but I am saying that they have the right to believe whatever they please. That's what America is all about. Now, when what they believe impinges on the rights of others, I will be the first to call them down on it. As for gay marriage, there are a lot of Christians who support it. There are also a lot of non-Christians who oppose it. I know more than a few gays who oppose it. And, you know what? Even if gay marriage were to be legalized in all 50 states tomorrow, a minister or a rabbi can refuse to marry anyone who doesn't accept his religion's concept of what marriage is. A Church wedding is not a right.

Cythraul:
Again, I'm not the one out there trying to pass laws forbidding state(s) from recognizing 'Christian Marriage.' They started this fight, they're the ones being irrational about it, and I'm the one who's supposed to keep and open mind, about them? I don't think so.

My favorite argument is that allowing gay marriage is taking away their religious freedoms.

Parthenogenetic: Notice how Jesus specifically mentioned Sodom and Gomorrah, which were destroyed because of teh ghey.

why were they destroyed? please cite scripture and indicate which translation you are using because...

Ezekiel 16:48-50

Contemporary English Version (CEV)

48As surely as I am the living LORD God, the people of Sodom and its nearby villages were never as sinful as you. 49They were arrogant and spoiled; they had everything they needed and still refused to help the poor and needy. 50They thought they were better than everyone else, and they did things I hate. And so I destroyed them.

Ezekiel 16:48-50

New King James Version (NKJV)

48 "As I live," says the Lord GOD, "neither your sister Sodom nor her daughters have done as you and your daughters have done. 49 Look, this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: She and her daughter had pride, fullness of food, and abundance of idleness; neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. 50 And they were haughty and committed abomination before Me; therefore I took them away as I saw fit

kinda looks like in Ezekiel (and they are quoting GOD here)... the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and the other 3 or 4 depending on your understanding of the actual locations of the cities and who they were ruled by, were destroyed because of pride, greed, sloth and indifference towards the poor and needy... hmmmm who would those words best describe in today's political spectrum?

cynicalbastard: I think people would be shocked at the numbers of Evangelical Christians who can be found in gay bars. Usually in the bathrooms.

You can find them in airport bathrooms too. Pretty much any bathrooms that have portholes in the walls.

I honestly do not think I would let a gay child under eighteen near this man until I'd personally heard him debating a few times. On the other hand, that's exactly why I respect him. He will face a lot of wariness, and maybe even outright hatred. Being gay means being ready to defend yourself from his ilk, after all. But he's still going to try.

/And honestly, once I knew firsthand he wasn't just a fire-and-brimstone asshole, I'd bring every single kid I knew to those debates, gay or straight, and tell them, "Take a good look right there, my friends. That's what we should be doing. That."

slayer199: Besides, I thought that was part of Jesus' message...to be more inclusive, loving, yadda yadda. Judge not lest ye be judged?

"Oh please, stick your half-baked, feel-good theology back up your arse."

ringersol: No Sean Astin references? really?

Do you remember the Shire, Mr. Frodo? It'll be spring soon. And the orchards will be in blossom. And the birds will be nesting in the hazel thicket. And they'll be sowing the summer barley in the lower fields... and eating the first of the strawberries with cream. Do you remember the taste of strawberries?

That is a pink tie, and he's totally rocking it.

He's as gay as can be. His friends were probably coming *onto* him, rather than "out to" him. And, well, you know what? Good for him.

Reconcile your structured, highly-politicized religion with the way that you know, in your heart, you should live, or drop your religion.

tjsands1118:
Okay first off Jesus was never really real, so you're whole point is entirely invalid. But let's continue to pretend that he is, so I can argue a bit more.

You say the people saying others are going to go to hell are atheist, but there is no denial in the fact that hate groups like the Westboro Baptist are Christian, and they sure like to throw around the "fire and brimstone".

Also why does being gay receive such special treatment. I mean it's still against your god to shave sideburns, eat shellfish, work on Sunday, eat pork, wear clothes with cotton/wool blend, touch menstruating women, tell a dirty joke, and a list of hundreds of other sins, a lot of which are mention more times then homosexuality. Yet there are no bans on Red Lobsters, barber shops, or cheap sweaters!

They'll reply that they're "not under the law" (while using Leviticus to condemn homosexuals and ignoring Romans 7:7, but I digress).

So, limiting it strictly to what Jesus is quoted as saying, why aren't they protesting in front of divorce courts (Matt. 5:32) or condemning people who call their brothers fools (Matt. 5:22) or tax cheats (Mark 12:17) or those who swear (Matt. 5:34) or those who don't invite the poor, crippled, lame and blind when having a dinner party (Luke 14:13) or those who demand loans be repaid (Luke 6:35) or fight back against criminals (Matt. 5:39)?

penthesilea: Yeah, I know about the translation problems. I'd love for the actual translation to be about temple boys/alter boys and warning the priests to keep their hands to themselves.

I lol'd.

bibli0phile: So, limiting it strictly to what Jesus is quoted as saying, why aren't they protesting in front of divorce courts (Matt. 5:32) or condemning people who call their brothers fools (Matt. 5:22) or tax cheats (Mark 12:17) or those who swear (Matt. 5:34) or those who don't invite the poor, crippled, lame and blind when having a dinner party (Luke 14:13) or those who demand loans be repaid (Luke 6:35) or fight back against criminals (Matt. 5:39)?

You just described the Republican base, mah friend.

Unfortunately, a lot of churches have become less like followers of Christ and more like followers of the GOP agenda. And the GOP talking heads have been telling them for years not to worry about those silly little contradictions between the two-- because if your church teaches something that contradicts the GOP agenda, then it's obviously the church that is in the wrong. It's quite scary how easy it was for them to do this.

Parthenogenetic: I left the Baptist church a long time ago. I was taught that only Baptists were going to Heaven, and that Catholics, Episcopalians, Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, etc. were followers of false religions, and collectively constituted the "Whore of Babylon".

Doesn't every sect say that?

he also thinks that gay people are often too quick to dismiss Christianity.

I don't dismiss Christianity because I'm gay or because it has anything particularly profound to say -- at all -- on the subject. I dismiss it because it is so demonstrably rubbish. If I appear to dismiss it quickly, it's because I spent the better part of twenty years studying it before dismissing it, so your additional 20 minutes of evangelism is completely is highly unlikely to generate an epiphanous conversion.

If it gets you off, great, but overwrought S&M fan fiction just isn't really my bag, okay?

Two things that a lot of Christians don't realize is one, every time the subject of same sex relations comes up in the Bible, it is sex acts that are condemned, there is nothing suggesting that two people of the same gender having an emotional attachment is sinful. And two, you can't just pick a specific passage of scripture and say "This says that I'm right," you have to also consider the context and the reason that passage was written. More info on that here (new window)

And even if same sex sex-acts were specifically forbidden, there still is where Matthew 7:1 says "Judge not, that ye be not judged" and Romans 12:19 says "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15034651
Several have already exposed this guy's true colors
http://www.signorile.com/2010/07/more-of-that-false-prophet.html

apparently the BBC has yet to catch on

Jesus was gay, y'all

This "build a bridge" strategy
http://www.internetevangelismday.com/bridge-strategy.php
seems to be a common technique. It's yet another in the bag of tricks that stealth evangelism uses. The link above is just one example, but it's pretty exemplary. They base this whole technique on what they call "felt needs," i.e. providing a secular service with the purpose of evangelizing during, or immediately after, providing the service. Rick Warren, one of the modern gurus of dominionism, explains here how one church used a "potty training" seminar as a front for their evangelism. It looks like this Marin guy is up to the same sort of antics.

FTA:

"That is no small achievement in a culture where openly gay people and evangelical Christians have long viewed each other with suspicion".

Long viewed each other with suspicion? Really?

I think it's safe to say that Christians have a good idea as to how gays live their lives, and I think the gays know the general, M.O. of the religious community.

Obvious conflict of interest is obvious. These two groups will never be 100% cohesive. So long as people can just be civil and stay out of one another's business, and respect one another rights, there should be nothing more to do or say.

McNignog: FTA:

"That is no small achievement in a culture where openly gay people and evangelical Christians have long viewed each other with suspicion".

Long viewed each other with suspicion? Really?

I think it's safe to say that Christians have a good idea as to how gays live their lives, and I think the gays know the general, M.O. of the religious community.

Obvious conflict of interest is obvious. These two groups will never be 100% cohesive. So long as people can just be civil and stay out of one another's business, and respect one another rights, there should be nothing more to do or say.

Religious people need to be in EVERYONE'S business. I went to a funeral of a friend who specified in his will that there be no prayers or religious observance of any kind. His family and friends obeyed his wishes but someone must have mentioned that fact to someone and a local church - one my friend never attended - heard and they came to the funeral to pay their "respects." This was a small rural town in PA, if it matters.

When the funeral director opened the floor to anyone who wanted to say something about the deceased, these people got up I SWEAR TO GOD and preached little mini-sermons that had NOTHING to do with my dead friend. It was all about the "word of Jesus."

Yeah, I detest religious people more after that than I ever did before it.

suggiethames: This "build a bridge" strategy
http://www.internetevangelismday.com/bridge-strategy.php
seems to be a common technique. It's yet another in the bag of tricks that stealth evangelism uses. The link above is just one example, but it's pretty exemplary. They base this whole technique on what they call "felt needs," i.e. providing a secular service with the purpose of evangelizing during, or immediately after, providing the service. Rick Warren, one of the modern gurus of dominionism, explains here how one church used a "potty training" seminar as a front for their evangelism. It looks like this Marin guy is up to the same sort of antics.

Exactomundo.

It's exactly the same as various Church "Dialogues with the Jews". What they amounted to was various Popes saying "Look, you guys, your Messiah already showed up, and he was our main man, Jesus, so why don't you stop being so wrong and Jewish and all and convert to the True Faith? We cool with that?"