WHAR IS FAIL TAG, WHAR!?!

You can still be a crack whore without a degree. But I think you need certification to be a pimp

I don't understand this "career transition" concept. I've never run across a job that didn't require significant prior experience in the exact same job.

/e.g. 5 years each Java, C#, and JCL

You may be able to get a job teaching without a bachelors degree in education if the state you live in has lax standards or you have an existing degree and experience in the subject you would be teaching.

Annual Average Earning Potential: $29,760*

Wow! Sign me up!

You don't need a degree to be a Network admin, you need experience. The degree might get you your first entry level phone job but I know a lot of people who got their foot in the door without one.

The trick is you have to be good.

Option #3 here... And most of what I do all day is fix the errors of the 'non-degree' staff, so NO.

sammyk: Please don't say IT! Please don't say IT!

FARK! Stop trying to unload failures from the rest of the business world on us. You have to study harder than what's required for a BS and guess what it never ever ends. If you are too lazy to get a degree you will fail in IT!

This.

That said, I've managed 13 years in IT without a degree. Mostly because I'm an autodidact.

sammyk: Please don't say ITteacher! Please don't say ITteacher!

FARK! Stop trying to unload failures from the rest of the business world on us.

I suspect most of the others on this list are also not too fond of having their ranks swelled by people who only thought of them as "fall-back careers."

Evil Twin Skippy: I'm an autodidact.

Did you have to take yoga to learn to do that?

I'm fine with a degree being useful to get your foot in the door. What pisses me off far more are companies that insist on degrees no matter the qualifications and experience. One company in town requires a four year degree for all IT staff, all the way down to the cable monkeys.

Even if you have a degree, if you see a company that has a hard line requiring a degree then I take that a sign to run away. That is a company letting HR do all their hiring and not the department staff that really knows what they are doing and what they need. You're bound to end up working in a college dorm environment with people who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

Computer Support Specialist - Annual Average Earning Potential: $49,930*

#1. The article isn't an article, it's a commercial ad for certificate mills.
#2. The one fact above tells me the rest is suspect. I'm in IT, and while it may be plausible for somebody dropping workstations on desks to be making that salary in a high cost of living area, it definately ain't going to be the average.

sammyk: Please don't say IT! Please don't say IT!

FARK! Stop trying to unload failures from the rest of the business world on us. You have to study harder than what's required for a BS and guess what it never ever ends. If you are too lazy to get a degree you will fail in IT!

I know of no one from the "business world" that goes into IT. Its usually the other way around. And most careers in IT don't require a 4 year degree. Technical college or mentor-ships do nicely.

/Security Architect - no degree
//the real problem is experience and leadership skills

All of those professions require a degree, unless you want to be a dumbass in your field.

With a degree versus without:

1) Medical Administrator vs secretary
2) Paralegal vs coffee and file fetcher
3) Accountant vs excel spreadsheet guy
4) IT Professional vs you'll be working with a lot of high schoolers
5) Classroom Teacher vs baby sitter
6) Net Admin vs you assist the guy who pulls cable

Did you have to take yoga to learn to do that?

He's probably just double jointed.

FTFA: "There are many career opportunities open to applicants with only an associate's degree...."

Oh. Ah.

Nevermind

\degreeless mechanical designer who spends most of time fixing degreed engineers' mistakes

Evil Twin Skippy: sammyk: Please don't say IT! Please don't say IT!

FARK! Stop trying to unload failures from the rest of the business world on us. You have to study harder than what's required for a BS and guess what it never ever ends. If you are too lazy to get a degree you will fail in IT!

This.

That said, I've managed 13 years in IT without a degree. Mostly because I'm an autodidact.

I can't disagree with anything either of you said (especially as I've never met Evil Twin Skippy IRL and have no reason to doubt his self-description as an autodidact) but technically, the article is correct. My BA is not at all tech related and I work in IT too; a Bachelor's strictly isn't necessary for this job.

What they don't tell you is you shouldn't get into IT if you aren't the rare person who works as well with people as they do with computers. Otherwise if you're considering IT it's because you're good with computers (like I was, and still am), maybe so-so with people but are stumped at finding something else that will pay while not doing something more annoying; I personally consider this how I pay the bills until I write the Minecraft Killer game.

Question are jobs with degrees harder to find or is it just everyone is getting a diploma now and those who can't actually do the job are the ones that can't be hired, or had degrees from the 70's and aren't relevent today.

WHAR JOURNALISM YAHOO WHAR

karmaceutical:

Win

Fubini:
With a degree versus without:

4) IT Professional vs you'll be working with a lot of high schoolers
6) Net Admin vs you assist the guy who pulls cable

I really have to disagree with those. I've experienced exactly the opposite. The college grads come out with no real world experience, a head full of theory and no practice, and a piece of paper and loan bills that make them feel entitled.

I'd take the person who spent their time with computing as a hobby over someone who just got a degree in it as a career choice any day.

I've met plenty of the latter. They are the ones debugging code but don't know how to turn their PC on. The former are the ones stuck teaching them how and trying to do their own real work (usually at a higher quality as well).

Always wanted to try to become a para-eagles. I just don't have the genes for it.

In theory, you could become a foreign service officer with the Department of State with no more than a high school diploma. There's no education requirement.

In practice, you'd stand a better chance getting elected to Congress and it'd probably be cheaper than the educations of most people who generally come to that table.

#7) Yahoo! columnist.

Evil Twin Skippy: sammyk: Please don't say IT! Please don't say IT!

FARK! Stop trying to unload failures from the rest of the business world on us. You have to study harder than what's required for a BS and guess what it never ever ends. If you are too lazy to get a degree you will fail in IT!

This.

That said, I've managed 13 years in IT without a degree. Mostly because I'm an autodidact.

Autodidacts for the win. I manage a bunch of writers and the best ones are the ones who simply come by it naturally and are addicted to teaching themselves.

Having said that, if you want a high-paying job right now in the ad industry, become a social media expert. We are hurting for people. Anyone who's smart can teach themselves. If you're better than I am at it (I'm pretty good but I don't have time to specialize in that sort of thing), I will hire you.

Gaseous Anomaly:
I don't understand this "career transition" concept. I've never run across a job that didn't require significant prior experience in the exact same job.

/e.g. 5 years each Java, C#, and JCL

IT manager required. Must have 10 years' experience with Web 2.0 apps and Firefox 4.

Ah screw it, eventually everyone will be classified as "indentured laborer" and our kids' only hope for upward mobility will be service in the police or armed forces, or for the prettier ones, becoming a concubine to the elite.

Also, I'm highly skeptical of this $50k/year "earning potential" for doing PC tech support.

Crotchrocket Slim: Evil Twin Skippy: sammyk: Please don't say IT! Please don't say IT!

FARK! Stop trying to unload failures from the rest of the business world on us. You have to study harder than what's required for a BS and guess what it never ever ends. If you are too lazy to get a degree you will fail in IT!

This.

That said, I've managed 13 years in IT without a degree. Mostly because I'm an autodidact.

I can't disagree with anything either of you said (especially as I've never met Evil Twin Skippy IRL and have no reason to doubt his self-description as an autodidact) but technically, the article is correct. My BA is not at all tech related and I work in IT too; a Bachelor's strictly isn't necessary for this job.

What they don't tell you is you shouldn't get into IT if you aren't the rare person who works as well with people as they do with computers. Otherwise if you're considering IT it's because you're good with computers (like I was, and still am), maybe so-so with people but are stumped at finding something else that will pay while not doing something more annoying; I personally consider this how I pay the bills until I write the Minecraft Killer game.

One of the problems with what "they" tell you is that "they" usually don't know what they're talking about.

There are lots of IT jobs that don't require interaction with customers if you know where to look and you want to specialize into that role. Similarly, there are lots of IT jobs that are almost entirely customer-oriented and require very little technical expertise, comparatively. Of those jobs that require a lot of expertise there are still yet jobs that don't require and do require lots of customer interaction.

In my brief stint in IT (about 5 years at the lower-levels) this is roughly how it shook out in my institution. Your mileage my vary.

Low skill, low interaction: hardware support tech, cable puller
Low skill, high interaction: basic help-desk, printer tech, web programmers
High skill, low interaction: network engineer, database admin, web admin
High skill, high interaction: technical director, system admin, network admin

sammyk: EZ1923: sammyk: Please don't say ITteacher! Please don't say ITteacher!

FARK! Stop trying to unload failures from the rest of the business world on us.

I suspect most of the others on this list are also not too fond of having their ranks swelled by people who only thought of them as "fall-back careers."

Agreed! Respect the profession or stay the dark out of it.

Did you mean to say "duck"?

sammyk: Please don't say IT! Please don't say IT!

FARK! Stop trying to unload failures from the rest of the business world on us. You have to study harder than what's required for a BS and guess what it never ever ends. If you are too lazy to get a degree you will fail in IT!

My six figure income and no degree frowns at you. However, when I got started in the field there wasn't much in the way of degrees in IT.

/and get off my farkin' lawn

Medical Assistant:
Ready to be treated like dirt by everyone above you? Ready to earn a tenth or less of the money the doctor's earn? Do you like taking people's temperature...rectally? This job is for you!

Paralegal:
Do you want to work long hours researching arcane legal precedents without that cumbersome money? Are you ready to "take one for the team" and accept blame when the lawyer fails? Do you like watching everyone else get a bonus while you go home and eat tuna from a can? This job is for you!

Accountant:
I'm sorry you uneducated piece of filth. You need a degree.

Computer Support Specialist:
Do you like people screaming at you to "fix my gotdam computer, you farging scumbag geek"? Do you like explaining to teenagers and old people that downloading that much porn from filesharing sites is bound to infect you with every virus and malware known to man? Do you enjoy reading from a script without having to know how to fix a thing? Can you say, "Please hold and I'll escalate you to level 2"? Then this job is for you!

Teacher:
I'm sorry you uneducated piece of filth. You need a degree. And certifications. And you won't be able to teach in California unless you get your degree and certifications from California, but then you won't be able to teach in the other 57 49 states.

Network Administrators:
Can you afford to pay $200+ to take standardized tests? Can you pass standardized tests with knowledge you get by reading a book? Can you lie through your teeth about your previous experience? Do you like spitting on those lowly tech support dweebs? Then this job is for you!

where is Yahoo employee on that list?

Evil Twin Skippy: sammyk: Please don't say IT! Please don't say IT!

FARK! Stop trying to unload failures from the rest of the business world on us. You have to study harder than what's required for a BS and guess what it never ever ends. If you are too lazy to get a degree you will fail in IT!

This.

That said, I've managed 13 years in IT without a degree. Mostly because I'm an autodidact.

The better IT guys are autodidacts. They want to learn how to make their jobs easier and more efficient (but mostly just easier). Spending a week or two learning PHP-SOAP and some Windows DCOM as well as reverse engineering a IP protocol meant I could shove provisioning VSAT satellite packs off onto other people and get back to doing nothing.

All with an A.S. in Electronics Engineering from ITT.

sammyk: Please don't say IT! Please don't say IT!

FARK! Stop trying to unload failures from the rest of the business world on us. You have to study harder than what's required for a BS and guess what it never ever ends. If you are too lazy to get a degree you will MIGHT fail in IT!

No bachelors and >100k architect position. You're right about the studying, though. I probably put in 20 hours a week at home just reading up and toying with new technologies... it's hardly noticeable since I enjoy the time spent, though.

It's those with bachelors that come into the field as a 2nd career (usually post-military) that seem to cap out at mid-level IT positions. Most are already established with families, though, so I imagine it's hard for them to form good workshop habits.

groppet: You can still be a crack whore without a degree. But I think you need certification to be a pimp



Worst job in America? That's right... Assistant crack whore.

Crotchrocket Slim: Evil Twin Skippy: sammyk: Please don't say IT! Please don't say IT!

FARK! Stop trying to unload failures from the rest of the business world on us. You have to study harder than what's required for a BS and guess what it never ever ends. If you are too lazy to get a degree you will fail in IT!

This.

That said, I've managed 13 years in IT without a degree. Mostly because I'm an autodidact.

I can't disagree with anything either of you said (especially as I've never met Evil Twin Skippy IRL and have no reason to doubt his self-description as an autodidact) but technically, the article is correct. My BA is not at all tech related and I work in IT too; a Bachelor's strictly isn't necessary for this job.

What they don't tell you is you shouldn't get into IT if you aren't the rare person who works as well with people as they do with computers. Otherwise if you're considering IT it's because you're good with computers (like I was, and still am), maybe so-so with people but are stumped at finding something else that will pay while not doing something more annoying; I personally consider this how I pay the bills until I write the Minecraft Killer game.

You need more exposure. More cynicism. More BOFH thinking. Like, "works as well with people as they do computers" = smacking the side of the case to get the fan to stop grinding. Abuse. It works. It works well.

Gaseous Anomaly: I don't understand this "career transition" concept. I've never run across a job that didn't require significant prior experience in the exact same job.

/e.g. 5 years each Java, C#, and JCL

If you're good at memorizing keywords and high level examples of how stuff works, you could probably lie your way through an interview that only required a year or two of experience. If you have zero mores or principles, you can then do like the guy who did that to us, and try to get somebody else to spend all of their time doing your job for you vicariously through them by asking them to show you the most ridiculously fundamental aspects of your job imaginable. After you've done this a few times (most places will take a little while to fire you if you're billing yourself as entry level), you'll eventually be legitimately competent to do entry level work.

sammyk: If you are too lazy to get a degree you will fail in IT!

You do realize that almost all of the technology you use in IT was invented by people who did not have a degree in IT, right?

hej: Also, I'm highly skeptical of this $50k/year "earning potential" for doing PC tech support.

Perhaps embezzlement is included.

College is for suckers.

hej: Gaseous Anomaly: I don't understand this "career transition" concept. I've never run across a job that didn't require significant prior experience in the exact same job.

/e.g. 5 years each Java, C#, and JCL

If you're good at memorizing keywords and high level examples of how stuff works, you could probably lie your way through an interview that only required a year or two of experience. If you have zero mores or principles, you can then do like the guy who did that to us, and try to get somebody else to spend all of their time doing your job for you vicariously through them by asking them to show you the most ridiculously fundamental aspects of your job imaginable. After you've done this a few times (most places will take a little while to fire you if you're billing yourself as entry level), you'll eventually be legitimately competent to do entry level work.

I assumed this was how all entry level programming positions worked and the requirements on Dice were just sudoku puzzles to demonstrate your attention span is long enough to sit at the desk and read the for dummies book.

sammyk: Please don't say IT! Please don't say IT!

FARK! Stop trying to unload failures from the rest of the business world on us. You have to study harder than what's required for a BS and guess what it never ever ends. If you are too lazy to get a degree you will fail in IT!

I've been in IT for 8 years now and don't have a bachelor's. Pretty much at this point I've nailed every interview because I am personable and have way more experience than the kid fresh out of college. With this job I was actually interviewed against two candidates with bachelors and still got the job.

I still worry what would happen if I ever needed to change jobs, but in the end I don't feel like dropping $50k on a piece of paper.

Evil Twin Skippy: sammyk: Please don't say IT! Please don't say IT!

FARK! Stop trying to unload failures from the rest of the business world on us. You have to study harder than what's required for a BS and guess what it never ever ends. If you are too lazy to get a degree you will fail in IT!

This.

That said, I've managed 13 years in IT without a degree. Mostly because I'm an autodidact.

And you still haven't accidentally hung yourself? Good for you, safety first. Always use a spotter.

Don't bother with paralegal certification. The market is saturated with people who got paralegal certification because it's super easy to get. You won't be able to find a job as a paralegal. Also, it doesn't really pay that much unless you have a lot of experience. You may as well go to law school.