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(The Raw Story)   After 20 years, they've finally proven Gulf War Syndrome isn't all in the mind -- it's all in the brain instead   (rawstory.com) divider line 72
    More: Sad, Gulf War Syndrome, Persian Gulf War, Southwestern Medical Center, Department of Veterans Affairs, Dallas Observer, post-traumatic stress disorders  
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8840 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Sep 2011 at 3:07 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



72 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2011-09-17 12:06:23 AM  
farking nerve gas, how does it work?
 
2011-09-17 01:08:00 AM  
Another unfunded government entitlement program. Damned socialists.
 
2011-09-17 02:02:25 AM  
It's caused by UFO's, right?

/obscure?
//I'll be disappointed if it is
 
2011-09-17 03:11:42 AM  
Caused by... vaccines.

But let's all just laugh at the people who don't trust the official word on vaccines. It's much easier than confronting the fact that we are poisoning ourselves and our kids with vaccines.
 
2011-09-17 03:13:54 AM  
I'm so glad I never had polio or small pox..........
 
2011-09-17 03:14:24 AM  
Well as a Desert Storm vet I'm gett .... what was I saying?
 
2011-09-17 03:17:25 AM  
Oh bummer! The Army's "get sick while on duty and we cover the medical" only works for nineteen years from exposure. What a drag.

/all those troops today have undiagnosed mental issues and not PTSD... really
 
2011-09-17 03:21:33 AM  
My cousin is 39 and was in Desert Storm. He now has crippling multiple sclerosis...
 
2011-09-17 03:21:48 AM  
Veteran walks into an ice cream shop. Orders a hot fudge sundae.
The clerk asks: "crushed nuts?"
Veteran says: "Nah. Gulf War Syndrome."
 
2011-09-17 03:21:54 AM  
I met a guy with it. you would have thought he had MS or Parkinsons or something.
 
2011-09-17 03:23:42 AM  
maybe not park. maybe just really a bit slow and uncoordinated.

/spent the afternoon in a bar with him. was very sad. he was going to have to be on disability for the rest of his life.
 
2011-09-17 03:25:52 AM  
AverageAmericanGuy: Caused by... vaccines.

But let's all just laugh at the people who don't trust the official word on vaccines. It's much easier than confronting the fact that we are poisoning ourselves and our kids with vaccines.


Sure. I'll have a good laugh at you.

Also, , seeing as you both FAIL TOXICOLOGY FOREVER and DID NOT DO THE RESEARCH on the claim you just made.
 
2011-09-17 03:27:16 AM  
Last post should have read CITATION NEEDED.

Still, my typo is less stupid than making blatently false and harmful claims.
 
DVD
2011-09-17 03:28:20 AM  
Gonna have to invent the 'since Saddam never had any weapons of mass destruction it can't be because of nerve gas' reverse argument and bring it to this? (Just to be VERY petty)
 
2011-09-17 03:28:22 AM  
Was the both

hardinparamedic: AverageAmericanGuy: Caused by... vaccines.

But let's all just laugh at the people who don't trust the official word on vaccines. It's much easier than confronting the fact that we are poisoning ourselves and our kids with vaccines.

Sure. I'll have a good laugh at you.

Also, , seeing as you both FAIL TOXICOLOGY FOREVER and DID NOT DO THE RESEARCH on the claim you just made.


that directed at me, or sid?
 
2011-09-17 03:29:29 AM  
Damn it, bad quoting on my part.
 
2011-09-17 03:30:50 AM  

hardinparamedic: AverageAmericanGuy: Caused by... vaccines.

But let's all just laugh at the people who don't trust the official word on vaccines. It's much easier than confronting the fact that we are poisoning ourselves and our kids with vaccines.

Sure. I'll have a good laugh at you.

Also, , seeing as you both FAIL TOXICOLOGY FOREVER and DID NOT DO THE RESEARCH on the claim you just made.


Y'all person replyin' to a troll account
 
2011-09-17 03:39:27 AM  
battery1979: Was the bothhardinparamedic: AverageAmericanGuy: Caused by... vaccines.

But let's all just laugh at the people who don't trust the official word on vaccines. It's much easier than confronting the fact that we are poisoning ourselves and our kids with vaccines.

Sure. I'll have a good laugh at you.

Also, , seeing as you both FAIL TOXICOLOGY FOREVER and DID NOT DO THE RESEARCH on the claim you just made.

that directed at me, or sid?


No, it was exclusively directed to AllAmericanGuy.

It was ment to say that he both failed toxicology and did not do the research at the same time.

Sorry, didn't mean to confuse you.

tankjr - The problem is that people will read that and take it as truth. Regardless of a troll or not, Doctor Google and consulting Doctor Jenny McCarthy, Ph.DoubleD have done more damage to the health of the United States than Vaccine Preventable Disease could have ever hoped to do.
 
2011-09-17 03:40:49 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Caused by... vaccines.

But let's all just laugh at the people who don't trust the official word on vaccines. It's much easier than confronting the fact that we are poisoning ourselves and our kids with vaccines.


Yeah, it's easier because you don't have to make up a bunch of crap and try to make it sound reasonable when it's contrary to the evidence.

You see how it's easier.
 
2011-09-17 03:44:00 AM  

tankjr: hardinparamedic: AverageAmericanGuy: Caused by... vaccines.

But let's all just laugh at the people who don't trust the official word on vaccines. It's much easier than confronting the fact that we are poisoning ourselves and our kids with vaccines.

Sure. I'll have a good laugh at you.

Also, , seeing as you both FAIL TOXICOLOGY FOREVER and DID NOT DO THE RESEARCH on the claim you just made.

Y'all person replyin' to a troll account


Everyone needs a hobby.
thefilmstage.com
 
2011-09-17 03:47:10 AM  
Low level doses of sarin gas. Lovely. I was 11 at the time so I don't recall well, but was Iraq using old weapons or something? Or was this accidental while destroying captured weapons? Do they know?
 
2011-09-17 03:49:38 AM  

platedlizard: Low level doses of sarin gas. Lovely. I was 11 at the time so I don't recall well, but was Iraq using old weapons or something? Or was this accidental while destroying captured weapons? Do they know?


Probably while we were doing search and destroy of chemical weapons stores.
 
2011-09-17 03:53:48 AM  
Soldiers were in a country where gassing the populous was normal, and they got exposed?

Whodathunkit??
 
2011-09-17 03:54:52 AM  

TedNigma: Soldiers were in a country where gassing the populous was normal, and they got exposed?

Whodathunkit??


Also true.
 
2011-09-17 04:05:49 AM  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wg_L0wGTyA
 
2011-09-17 05:11:01 AM  

platedlizard: Low level doses of sarin gas. Lovely. I was 11 at the time so I don't recall well, but was Iraq using old weapons or something? Or was this accidental while destroying captured weapons? Do they know?


No, we systematically destroyed Saddam's chemical stockpiles...in open burn pits and in some cases by simply dumping them on the ground.
All done without even respirators, never mind full hazmat gear..
 
2011-09-17 05:12:17 AM  
Persian Gulf War vet here- 82d Airborne Division, first 600 in country. Landed August 9, 1990, left right after the ground war ended in 1991.

They fed us pyrodostigimine bromide and told us it was to make our nerve agent antidote injectors more effective. They told us that when the chemical detection alarms went off that it was because they were placed too close to HMMWV exhaust.

I will never, as long as I live, forget that sound of hearing people shout "GAS GAS GAS".

I'm 41 years old. I can't sleep more than 4 hours a night- for the last 15 years, at least. I've suffered from severe depression, insomnia, muscle issues- I've been diagnosed with not one, not two, but THREE diseases classified as "rare diseases"- not counting the false diagnoses for shiat like tic doloreux (go Google it, I dare you- they call it "suicide disease") and pancreatitis.

I've never even bothered going to the VA or filing for any kind of disability because I've seen how badly this country farks everyone who tries. It simply isn't worth the effort it would take. We cost too much money and we don't look good on TV.

In the end, nobody will give a rat's ass because the vets of Desert Shield and Desert Storm aren't as visible, numerous or important to the media or the narrative as the more recent ones. So we'll be shuffled aside while the country ignores us. I've seen it coming for 20 years, and while I'm saddened to see my predictions come true, I'm not surprised in the least to see this country take another giant shiat on its veterans.
 
2011-09-17 05:19:33 AM  
Never underestimate the power of people to imagine themselves sick.
 
2011-09-17 05:23:14 AM  

Unda: Never underestimate the power of people to imagine themselves sick.


Go sort shotguns by barrel flavor.
 
2011-09-17 05:32:38 AM  

Unda: Never underestimate the power of people to imagine themselves sick.


i36.photobucket.com
 
2011-09-17 05:41:43 AM  

cretinbob: platedlizard: Low level doses of sarin gas. Lovely. I was 11 at the time so I don't recall well, but was Iraq using old weapons or something? Or was this accidental while destroying captured weapons? Do they know?

No, we systematically destroyed Saddam's chemical stockpiles...in open burn pits and in some cases by simply dumping them on the ground.
All done without even respirators, never mind full hazmat gear..


Sounds like we could've used an Area Medical Lab in theater.

*walks away, whistling nonchalantly*
 
2011-09-17 06:24:59 AM  

Cyclometh: Persian Gulf War vet here- 82d Airborne Division, first 600 in country. Landed August 9, 1990, left right after the ground war ended in 1991.

They fed us pyrodostigimine bromide and told us it was to make our nerve agent antidote injectors more effective. They told us that when the chemical detection alarms went off that it was because they were placed too close to HMMWV exhaust.

I will never, as long as I live, forget that sound of hearing people shout "GAS GAS GAS".

I'm 41 years old. I can't sleep more than 4 hours a night- for the last 15 years, at least. I've suffered from severe depression, insomnia, muscle issues- I've been diagnosed with not one, not two, but THREE diseases classified as "rare diseases"- not counting the false diagnoses for shiat like tic doloreux (go Google it, I dare you- they call it "suicide disease") and pancreatitis.

I've never even bothered going to the VA or filing for any kind of disability because I've seen how badly this country farks everyone who tries. It simply isn't worth the effort it would take. We cost too much money and we don't look good on TV.

In the end, nobody will give a rat's ass because the vets of Desert Shield and Desert Storm aren't as visible, numerous or important to the media or the narrative as the more recent ones. So we'll be shuffled aside while the country ignores us. I've seen it coming for 20 years, and while I'm saddened to see my predictions come true, I'm not surprised in the least to see this country take another giant shiat on its veterans.


My brother served as a Marine during Desert Storm but he's still active duty now in the Army. Is there a narrative website for DS vets? Because that would be a start. Also, submitting this story to more news outlets. Who's the major DS vet advocacy group ?
 
2011-09-17 06:59:29 AM  

Cyclometh: Unda: Never underestimate the power of people to imagine themselves sick.

Go sort shotguns by barrel flavor.


I had a friend who was fond of the the phrase "Why don't you go wash your mouth out with a revolver". Totally agree with you man.
 
2011-09-17 07:16:08 AM  
It took doctors 20 years to figure this out? With all the advances and all of the soldiers available to study?

"Dr. Robert Haley, chief epidemiologist at UT Southwestern, and a cadre of clinicians and researchers, have struggled with the government for some 18 years for research funding and to have the syndrome recognized as a legitimate war injury," the paper notes.

Heley's team has not yet pinpointed the nature of the brain damage, which is estimated to affect 25% of the 700,000 Gulf War veterans, or worked out an effective treatment. He is confident, however, that "the research is really going to come to a head in the next six to 12 months."


Oh, so it was an actual conspiracy to keep it off the public radar for almost two decades. But that's impossible! Too many people would have to be involved. How could they pull something like that off right in plain site?
 
2011-09-17 07:56:42 AM  

Cyclometh: Persian Gulf War vet here- 82d Airborne Division, first 600 in country. Landed August 9, 1990, left right after the ground war ended in 1991.

They fed us pyrodostigimine bromide and told us it was to make our nerve agent antidote injectors more effective. They told us that when the chemical detection alarms went off that it was because they were placed too close to HMMWV exhaust.

I will never, as long as I live, forget that sound of hearing people shout "GAS GAS GAS".

I'm 41 years old. I can't sleep more than 4 hours a night- for the last 15 years, at least. I've suffered from severe depression, insomnia, muscle issues- I've been diagnosed with not one, not two, but THREE diseases classified as "rare diseases"- not counting the false diagnoses for shiat like tic doloreux (go Google it, I dare you- they call it "suicide disease") and pancreatitis.

I've never even bothered going to the VA or filing for any kind of disability because I've seen how badly this country farks everyone who tries. It simply isn't worth the effort it would take. We cost too much money and we don't look good on TV.

In the end, nobody will give a rat's ass because the vets of Desert Shield and Desert Storm aren't as visible, numerous or important to the media or the narrative as the more recent ones. So we'll be shuffled aside while the country ignores us. I've seen it coming for 20 years, and while I'm saddened to see my predictions come true, I'm not surprised in the least to see this country take another giant shiat on its veterans.


Damn straight. I was in Grenada and I only got fifteen medals and a beej from a student who couldn't get into a US med school.
 
2011-09-17 07:59:56 AM  

Cyclometh: I'm 41 years old. I can't sleep more than 4 hours a night- for the last 15 years, at least. I've suffered from severe depression, insomnia, muscle issues- I've been diagnosed with not one, not two, but THREE diseases classified as "rare diseases"- not counting the false diagnoses for shiat like tic doloreux (go Google it, I dare you- they call it "suicide disease") and pancreatitis.


They just tagged clusters of symptoms like that as being part of celiac disease last year.

Have you tried a gluten free diet or been tested for celiac?
 
2011-09-17 08:18:21 AM  

Cyclometh: Persian Gulf War vet here- 82d Airborne Division, first 600 in country. Landed August 9, 1990, left right after the ground war ended in 1991.

They fed us pyrodostigimine bromide and told us it was to make our nerve agent antidote injectors more effective. They told us that when the chemical detection alarms went off that it was because they were placed too close to HMMWV exhaust.

I will never, as long as I live, forget that sound of hearing people shout "GAS GAS GAS".

I'm 41 years old. I can't sleep more than 4 hours a night- for the last 15 years, at least. I've suffered from severe depression, insomnia, muscle issues- I've been diagnosed with not one, not two, but THREE diseases classified as "rare diseases"- not counting the false diagnoses for shiat like tic doloreux (go Google it, I dare you- they call it "suicide disease") and pancreatitis.

I've never even bothered going to the VA or filing for any kind of disability because I've seen how badly this country farks everyone who tries. It simply isn't worth the effort it would take. We cost too much money and we don't look good on TV.

In the end, nobody will give a rat's ass because the vets of Desert Shield and Desert Storm aren't as visible, numerous or important to the media or the narrative as the more recent ones. So we'll be shuffled aside while the country ignores us. I've seen it coming for 20 years, and while I'm saddened to see my predictions come true, I'm not surprised in the least to see this country take another giant shiat on its veterans.


The problem is, the media and government and everyone else is there for you to throw you your welcome home parades, etc; but they aren't with you for the long haul. Just like everything else in this country, once they're done with you, you're yesterday's trash.

For what it's worth, thank you for your service. When reports of this condition first came out, I had no doubt, and have never had any doubt that it was a genuine medical condition resulting from something the soldiers were exposed to during the war. Whether it was vaccinations, medication, or nerve gas, I wouldn't guess.

My best friend from high school who served showed symptoms of the disorder, but he committed suicide in 1994, so I guess I'll never know for sure if he had it.
 
2011-09-17 08:20:43 AM  
DEPLETED URANIUM.

Talk by Dr. Doug Rokke, former head of the Pentagon's Depleted Uranium Project speaking about depleted uranium and the Gulf War.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-VkpR-wka8 (new window)

It's very clear, just ask Doug.
Must blame the gas, because we still spill DU all over the planet.

In just three weeks of one war...
"In a three week period of conflict in Iraq during 2003 it was estimated over 1000 tons of depleted uranium munitions were used."- Paul Brown, Gulf troops face tests for cancer guardian.co.uk 25 April 2003

DU has a halflife of 4.5 billion years. Do the math.

Then Google Depleted Uranium Babies.
Or click This (new window) or This (new window)
 
2011-09-17 08:39:26 AM  
Oh man, this is really going to conflict with all the people still insisting Saddam didn't have any WMDs . . . how will they perpetually attempt to persecute W without that ammo?
 
2011-09-17 08:53:01 AM  

LeglessDog: Oh man, this is really going to conflict with all the people still insisting Saddam didn't have any WMDs . . . how will they perpetually attempt to persecute W without that ammo?


It's from gas, not nukes. Chem war isn't WMD.
 
2011-09-17 08:59:05 AM  
Gulf War vet here - 501st Signal Battallion, 101st Airborn Division.

I recall that they issued us generic looking blister packs of pills that were supposed to build up a tolerance for certain chemical weapons. We were told they contained low levels of an agent, and would make you feel like you had the flu or something. We were ORDERED to take them daily. They would get us in formation and visually verify we took our pill.

Those pills gave you the worst headaches imaginable - along the same lines as a Budweiser hangover. Everyone despised talking them. Fortunately for us, our command must have hated them as much as we did, and after a week or so they stopped verifying that we were taking the pills. Therefore, most of us lowly enlisted personnel simply stopped.

Years later I found that those pills were "experimental", right around the time that all these vets started complaining about Gulf War Syndrome. I was in a Signal unit, and our command is quite a bit more relaxed than, say, an Infantry battallion. I can only imagine those hard-core grunts taking those pills every day for a couple of months.

I would have to believe that those pills would have a lot more to so with it than some phantom release of an actual chemical weapon that no one ever detected, or the idea that it may be related to exposure to depleted uranium.
 
2011-09-17 09:03:25 AM  
Knew a guy who served in Vietnam. His exposure to agent orange was visible every day I worked with him. I asked him why he even worked and he told me that the VA treated him like shiat, and refused to diagnose him as ever having been exposed. The government treats our troops like this because if they didn't they would have to pay tons for damages. So they deny everything and in the end it quietly goes away.

His words not mine.
 
2011-09-17 09:08:34 AM  

skantea: LeglessDog: Oh man, this is really going to conflict with all the people still insisting Saddam didn't have any WMDs . . . how will they perpetually attempt to persecute W without that ammo?

It's from gas, not nukes. Chem war isn't WMD.


WRONG!
 
2011-09-17 09:09:11 AM  

skantea: LeglessDog: Oh man, this is really going to conflict with all the people still insisting Saddam didn't have any WMDs . . . how will they perpetually attempt to persecute W without that ammo?

It's from gas, not nukes. Chem war isn't WMD.



While Wiki isn't omniscient--you, sir, are incorrect: Link (new window)
 
2011-09-17 09:47:45 AM  

LeglessDog: skantea: LeglessDog: Oh man, this is really going to conflict with all the people still insisting Saddam didn't have any WMDs . . . how will they perpetually attempt to persecute W without that ammo?

It's from gas, not nukes. Chem war isn't WMD.

While Wiki isn't omniscient--you, sir, are incorrect: Link (new window)



Assumed wmd meant radiologic (diry bomb). Comment infraction. -1.
 
2011-09-17 10:08:09 AM  

skantea: LeglessDog: skantea: LeglessDog: Oh man, this is really going to conflict with all the people still insisting Saddam didn't have any WMDs . . . how will they perpetually attempt to persecute W without that ammo?

It's from gas, not nukes. Chem war isn't WMD.

While Wiki isn't omniscient--you, sir, are incorrect: Link (new window)

Assumed wmd meant radiologic (diry bomb). Comment infraction. -1.


. . . .well, you know what they say about assuming things . . .
 
2011-09-17 10:15:07 AM  
I work for VA and we service connect veterans for Gulf War Syndrome symptoms daily. If you need some information concerning a claim for Gulf War syndrome or any other service connection (Agent Orange, environmental hazards, noise exposure) then I'll be happy to help you in the ways that I can. My e-mail is in profile.
 
2011-09-17 10:23:25 AM  

newton: DU has a halflife of 4.5 billion years. Do the math.


Which means it's perfectly fine radiation wise you moron, in fact you've got a decent bunch of the plain radioactive uranium in you right now. We all do.

DU isn't nasty because it's radioactive, it's nasty because it's a heavy metal and a rather unpleasant one at that. Pure old fashion chemistry nasty. Of course, you're too stupid to comprehend that statement so you just run around screaming "radioactive, evil, radioactive, evil" like a modern day version of a tribal witch burner.
 
2011-09-17 10:26:10 AM  

jafiwam: Cyclometh: I'm 41 years old. I can't sleep more than 4 hours a night- for the last 15 years, at least. I've suffered from severe depression, insomnia, muscle issues- I've been diagnosed with not one, not two, but THREE diseases classified as "rare diseases"- not counting the false diagnoses for shiat like tic doloreux (go Google it, I dare you- they call it "suicide disease") and pancreatitis.

They just tagged clusters of symptoms like that as being part of celiac disease last year.

Have you tried a gluten free diet or been tested for celiac?


jafiwam has a point. A gluten-free diet helps some people who have those symptoms. It might not solve your underlying gulf-war medical issues but it's worth a try. I had ALL those symptoms you mentioned plus what others might call Chronic Fatigue syndrome where even trying to clean my house for 1/2 hour meant I would be exhausted for the rest of the day and end up getting a cold or infection to boot. I was a mess and it ended up in my marriage ending. A gluten free diet immediately began to show slow improvements of all those things you mentioned so been on that diet for years. I didn't really get my full energy back until I began massive vitamin supplementation along with the GF diet. Moved a ton of furniture and cleaned the other day and not the least bit sore or tired the next day.

/Yes, blah, blah, blah there is nobody as annoying as someone who swears by a new diet or medical treatment.
//Don't listen to me, my ex never did. Now excuse me, I've got to get back to my happy personal life, good night's sleep, new job promotion, and of course sexy hot young boyfriend.
/// I iz HAPPY! :)
 
2011-09-17 11:21:58 AM  
http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/medsearch/FocusAreas/pb.shtml
 
2011-09-17 11:42:22 AM  
 
2011-09-17 11:49:07 AM  

Cyclometh: Persian Gulf War vet here- 82d Airborne Division, first 600 in country. Landed August 9, 1990, left right after the ground war ended in 1991.

They fed us pyrodostigimine bromide and told us it was to make our nerve agent antidote injectors more effective. They told us that when the chemical detection alarms went off that it was because they were placed too close to HMMWV exhaust.

I will never, as long as I live, forget that sound of hearing people shout "GAS GAS GAS".

I'm 41 years old. I can't sleep more than 4 hours a night- for the last 15 years, at least. I've suffered from severe depression, insomnia, muscle issues- I've been diagnosed with not one, not two, but THREE diseases classified as "rare diseases"- not counting the false diagnoses for shiat like tic doloreux (go Google it, I dare you- they call it "suicide disease") and pancreatitis.

I've never even bothered going to the VA or filing for any kind of disability because I've seen how badly this country farks everyone who tries. It simply isn't worth the effort it would take. We cost too much money and we don't look good on TV.

In the end, nobody will give a rat's ass because the vets of Desert Shield and Desert Storm aren't as visible, numerous or important to the media or the narrative as the more recent ones. So we'll be shuffled aside while the country ignores us. I've seen it coming for 20 years, and while I'm saddened to see my predictions come true, I'm not surprised in the least to see this country take another giant shiat on its veterans.


It makes me sick hearing how they've treated you and makes me question my own future after the military. Thanks for your service.
 
2011-09-17 11:49:21 AM  
I guess it's all in my head and not related to the treatments that the soldiers were forced to take.

Wow. You needle-happy pill pushers sure schooled me!
 
2011-09-17 11:52:08 AM  

newton: DU has a halflife of 4.5 billion years. Do the math.


Hmm...carry the one...that means it's not very radioactive.
 
2011-09-17 11:52:46 AM  
So this is the Depleted Uranium of the 90s?

My cousin is dying from Agent Orange. Line ship in Vietnam. No one realized much the Agent Orange sprayed in country eventually made it out to the ocean where the sea water was filtered and used aboard ship.

Yeah, they told him it was all in his head too.

19 year countdown on DU commencing in 5 4 3 2 1.
 
2011-09-17 11:58:44 AM  

TheShavingofOccam123: So this is the Depleted Uranium of the 90s?

My cousin is dying from Agent Orange. Line ship in Vietnam. No one realized much the Agent Orange sprayed in country eventually made it out to the ocean where the sea water was filtered and used aboard ship.

Yeah, they told him it was all in his head too.

19 year countdown on DU commencing in 5 4 3 2 1.



wow. sad to hear. how do they prove that it was AO related and not something else 25 years later? is it like asbestos, it has it's own rare disease?

/if you live long enough, you'll eventually die of cancer.
 
2011-09-17 12:00:50 PM  

ausfahrk: newton: DU has a halflife of 4.5 billion years. Do the math.

Hmm...carry the one...that means it's not very radioactive.


Yeah, depleted uranium is only 40 percent less radioactive than natural uranium.

I put it on my cereal.
 
2011-09-17 12:02:12 PM  

relcec: TheShavingofOccam123: So this is the Depleted Uranium of the 90s?

My cousin is dying from Agent Orange. Line ship in Vietnam. No one realized much the Agent Orange sprayed in country eventually made it out to the ocean where the sea water was filtered and used aboard ship.

Yeah, they told him it was all in his head too.

19 year countdown on DU commencing in 5 4 3 2 1.


wow. sad to hear. how do they prove that it was AO related and not something else 25 years later? is it like asbestos, it has it's own rare disease?

/if you live long enough, you'll eventually die of cancer.


multiple tumors and other health issues. the VA has treated him well these last few years but it was terrible going for a long time.
 
2011-09-17 12:15:59 PM  

Rakishi: newton: DU has a halflife of 4.5 billion years. Do the math.

Which means it's perfectly fine radiation wise you moron, in fact you've got a decent bunch of the plain radioactive uranium in you right now. We all do.

DU isn't nasty because it's radioactive, it's nasty because it's a heavy metal and a rather unpleasant one at that. Pure old fashion chemistry nasty. Of course, you're too stupid to comprehend that statement so you just run around screaming "radioactive, evil, radioactive, evil" like a modern day version of a tribal witch burner.


You know better than the former head of the Pentagon's Depleted Uranium Project?
I highly doubt that. Why don't you listen to him speak about it for 20 minutes of that hour-long video?

Yes, it is a nasty heavy metal. I'm aware of that. However-
Your insinuation that radioactivity issues posed by DU are not an issue/ "perfectly fine", is insane
 
2011-09-17 12:38:51 PM  

Rakishi: newton: DU has a halflife of 4.5 billion years. Do the math.

Which means it's perfectly fine radiation wise you moron, in fact you've got a decent bunch of the plain radioactive uranium in you right now. We all do.

DU isn't nasty because it's radioactive, it's nasty because it's a heavy metal and a rather unpleasant one at that. Pure old fashion chemistry nasty. Of course, you're too stupid to comprehend that statement so you just run around screaming "radioactive, evil, radioactive, evil" like a modern day version of a tribal witch burner.


A material can be toxic either chemically or radiologically. According to the US Army, DU happens to be both.

The toxicity is not debatable as the Director of the U.S. Army Environmental Policy Institute stated in a congressionally mandated report that "No available technology can significantly change the inherent chemical and radiological toxicity of DU. These are intrinsic properties of uranium " (Health and Environmental Consequences of Depleted Uranium Use in the U.S. Army: Technical Report, AEPI, June 1995).
 
2011-09-17 01:14:44 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: relcec: TheShavingofOccam123: So this is the Depleted Uranium of the 90s?

My cousin is dying from Agent Orange. Line ship in Vietnam. No one realized much the Agent Orange sprayed in country eventually made it out to the ocean where the sea water was filtered and used aboard ship.

Yeah, they told him it was all in his head too.

19 year countdown on DU commencing in 5 4 3 2 1.


wow. sad to hear. how do they prove that it was AO related and not something else 25 years later? is it like asbestos, it has it's own rare disease?

/if you live long enough, you'll eventually die of cancer.

multiple tumors and other health issues. the VA has treated him well these last few years but it was terrible going for a long time.


ahh.
 
2011-09-17 01:35:45 PM  

rfeick0: For what it's worth, thank you for your service. When reports of this condition first came out, I had no doubt, and have never had any doubt that it was a genuine medical condition resulting from something the soldiers were exposed to during the war. Whether it was vaccinations, medication, or nerve gas, I wouldn't guess.


Dad's USAF retired, and retired VA pathologist who finished his career as a VA chief of staff. He worked on a lot of GWS related stuff. The problem was, and is, that symptoms were all over the map and GWS is sort of a catch all. Regardless of what vets believe, a LOT of people in the VA system DO care, same in military medicine. Administrative level of the VA has a decent amount of deadwood scum, but the actual physicians and a lot of the administrators care.

I watched my dad put in LONG hours fixing a hospital as chief of staff while the Hospital director (army officer with management training, not medical training) steered contracts to his friends and abused discretionary accounts. My dad and the assistant director had to fight the regional director (*also only management, no medical) to shut him down. Got easier when the regional director VA got stopped for DUI in DC while there for meetings and told a DC cop "you don't know who I am! I'll have you fired." They cleaned up a lot of stuff after that guy got replaced.

It's not an ideal system but a significant number of people in mil and veteran's med really DO care and try. I see a lot of people that are friends of mine screw themselves because they've heard so many bad things. Lots of people are entitled to compensatory monthly payments and never even file when they EARNED it.

Just keep some perspective, OK. It's kinda like LEOs, there's a lot of asshole LEOs but there are a lot that aren't, too. The entire VA system isn't out to screw vets. That's more a capitol hill/white house thing than on the regional and local level but REMEMBER: Your personal congress critter will do his best to help. Congress critters do a lot of that sort of lobbying for consitutents. My dad spent many an hour of his own time personally steering people through the system because they needed help. All it takes is asking. If you give up, you may be bitter forever but you didn't try. There are people that will work for the vets. All systems are imperfect but don't deny yourself the benefits you earned.
 
2011-09-17 01:44:35 PM  

Cyclometh: I've never even bothered going to the VA or filing for any kind of disability because I've seen how badly this country farks everyone who tries.


See above. Even if you don't want to go to VA facilities for treatments, you very well might get a monthly check for service connected injuries. Neighbor took a bullet in the spine that didn't really do much damage, he had private medical insurance through his wife's work, but he DID get an AK round in his back that's still lodged next to his spine and they send him a check every month. If you don't even bother trying you are entirely responsible for not getting any compensation. They aren't going to send a CIA team to murder you (at least, not for seeking VA benefits, I don't know about the rest of your life).
 
2011-09-17 03:40:49 PM  

hardinparamedic: AverageAmericanGuy: Caused by... vaccines.

But let's all just laugh at the people who don't trust the official word on vaccines. It's much easier than confronting the fact that we are poisoning ourselves and our kids with vaccines.

Sure. I'll have a good laugh at you.

Also, , seeing as you both FAIL TOXICOLOGY FOREVER and DID NOT DO THE RESEARCH on the claim you just made.


Toxicology? That's like colonics and stuff, right? Gotta get rid of those toxins in white bread and non-bottled water.
 
2011-09-17 03:46:47 PM  

BradBrening: Gulf War vet here - 501st Signal Battallion, 101st Airborn Division.

I recall that they issued us generic looking blister packs of pills that were supposed to build up a tolerance for certain chemical weapons. We were told they contained low levels of an agent, and would make you feel like you had the flu or something. We were ORDERED to take them daily. They would get us in formation and visually verify we took our pill.

Those pills gave you the worst headaches imaginable - along the same lines as a Budweiser hangover. Everyone despised talking them. Fortunately for us, our command must have hated them as much as we did, and after a week or so they stopped verifying that we were taking the pills. Therefore, most of us lowly enlisted personnel simply stopped.

Years later I found that those pills were "experimental", right around the time that all these vets started complaining about Gulf War Syndrome. I was in a Signal unit, and our command is quite a bit more relaxed than, say, an Infantry battallion. I can only imagine those hard-core grunts taking those pills every day for a couple of months.

I would have to believe that those pills would have a lot more to so with it than some phantom release of an actual chemical weapon that no one ever detected, or the idea that it may be related to exposure to depleted uranium.


I was in an armor unit. I told my men, "You can take these things if you want to, but there's no way in hell I'm taking them." None of us did.
 
2011-09-17 04:02:49 PM  
Somehow I'm sure congress will use an earlier study which was inconclusive when it comes time to actually pay for trying to help anyone with it. Kinda like they did with 9/11 first responders who are all dying of cancer now.
 
2011-09-17 04:12:57 PM  

LeglessDog: Oh man, this is really going to conflict with all the people still insisting Saddam didn't have any WMDs . . . how will they perpetually attempt to persecute W without that ammo?


Hmm checks the article...

"Heley's team has not yet pinpointed the nature of the brain damage"

Oh so it was gas and they did have WMDs? Did Madam Tarot reader tell you this? Apparently, if he did have WMDs we took the worst course of action possible and charged directly into them on the first day. Either way the war was a huge waste of American lives, money, and other resources.
 
2011-09-17 05:16:11 PM  

squirrelflavoredyogurt:
Oh so it was gas and they did have WMDs? Did Madam Tarot reader tell you this? Apparently, if he did have WMDs we took the worst course of action possible and charged directly into them on the first day.


There's a reason Saddam's minister, Ali Hassan al-Majid, was nicknamed "Chemical" Ali by the Kurds. Wiki "Al-Anfal Campaign", or "Halabja poison gas attack". If I recall correctly, there was an Arabic photographer/journalist that took extensive pictures of the aftermath - and ended up dying from the exposure.

Ask any of the front line vets from the 1990 Gulf War, about how their chemical detectors went off so often that they turned them off.

Or how often their tents got "slimed" in unknown diesel-like films. (Not including the oil fields burning)

Or how so many of them came back with neurological disorders exactly fitting low-grade exposure to nerve agents.

Saddam had chemical weapons prior to 1990, and openly used them against the Kurds.
Plenty of pictures of Gulf War I era blown-up chemical SCUD missiles too, if one cares to look for them.
 
2011-09-17 05:24:30 PM  
I was stationed at Dugway Proving Grounds in Utah during the Gulf War. Even before the war we had guys who had worked there for years with the same complaints, rashes, memory loss, tremors, migraines ect. They had all worked during the days of open air chem testing. We had new guys with the same problems after working in some of the old test areas.

/Farkin place is like Area 51 but weirder.
 
2011-09-17 06:07:42 PM  
I was of age to join up during GW1, but was disuaded from doing so by my family full of cold war veterns. I want to thank you vets that have chimmend in on this thread for your service. Doesn't seem enough people in this thread, and real life are thanking you like they do for the guys in current series of conflicts.

I guess your war isn't sexy enough.

Also, thank you VA guys who are trying to do the right thing despite your frustrations.

Working here in the beer mines, they recently gave me an Apprentence. Dude is about 10 years younger than me and a Combat Vet of Falugia, (sp) he was a counter sniper.
cool stories..
dude walks around with a little naggy cough at all times. Apperntly that's from hanging out in the sand box for a few years constantly breathing in the Sand.

I asked him point blank after I found out he wasn't a smoker "ya got that cough in the service huh?"
kinda looks down nods his head and says "yeah"

so, now I'm turning this trained killer ;) into a yeast farmer
 
2011-09-17 06:30:56 PM  
images.wikia.com

Sarin Nerve Gas

The Soviets Iraqis love it. Its odorless, colorless but sure as hell ain't pain less.

/Hot like a Tesla Coil bolt.
 
2011-09-17 09:52:55 PM  
Gulf War Vet here as well. 82nd Airborne 1/325.. We were ordered to take the P.B. pills, they told us as well that it would increase the effectiveness of the Atropine injections if we were exposed to bio/chem weapons. Honestly? I can remember not caring too much what the future effects of them might be, just in the moment if might help Me survive bio/chem exposure, it was worth it. Lets not forget that at the time there was ALOT of talk and training about how it was inevitable that Saddam was going to use bio/chem on us as we attacked. I can also remember being on the Iraqi border, and all the chemical alarms on the battalion perimeter going off at the same time, and how they said, even at that time that the air force had bombed some suspected chemical or munitions dump, but it was soo far away that we could possibly be affected by it.

==> Cyclometh .. Hey Airborne how you doing?
 
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