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(AlterNet)   Columnist attempts to debunk 10 myths about atheists, manages to prove 9 of them are true   (alternet.org ) divider line
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38433 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Sep 2011 at 11:58 AM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-09-14 08:52:01 AM  
10) Atheists are out to destroy Christmas.

What an atheist may look like:

t3.gstatic.com
 
2011-09-14 09:18:17 AM  
Atheists are just jealous of Jesus's ripped abs.
 
2011-09-14 09:21:19 AM  
1) There are no atheists in foxholes.

That's not a myth, it's just an old saying intended to point out the horrors of war.
 
2011-09-14 09:27:46 AM  
2) Atheists are just angry with God. Atheists often point out the logical inconsistencies of many religious beliefs---such as the belief both that God is all-good and all-powerful, but he somehow also allows evil to exist---and believers use that to conclude that atheists are angry with God.

The ancient man approached God (or even the gods) as the accused person approaches his judge. For the modem man the roles are reversed. He is the judge: God is in the dock. He is quite a kindly judge: if God should have a reasonable defense for being the god who permits war, poverty, and disease, he is ready to listen to it. The trial may even end in God's acquittal. But the important thing is that man is on the bench and God in the dock. ~ C.S. Lewis

5) Atheism is just a faith like any other.

We all believe, as an article of faith, that life evolved from dead matter on this planet. It is just that its complexity is so great, it is hard for us to imagine that it did. ~ Harold Urey

6) Atheists don't have a moral code.

Acting morally and having a philosophical justification for your actions are two separate issues.
 
2011-09-14 09:28:05 AM  

kronicfeld: Atheists are just jealous of Jesus's ripped abs.


and his swimmer's bod?

/rock me sexy Jesus
 
2011-09-14 09:28:33 AM  
I got as far as "pleading for tolerance of atheists".

As an atheist i couldn't care less what you religious people believe - personally, i think you're all braindamaged to have not let go of the beliefs I had as a six year old. But in the course of my day, i couldn't give a rats ass about any of you and what you believe in. I don't want to hear it. I don't want to be aware of it. I don't want you to force your beliefs on me or my kids. I want you to keep it to yourselves. Religion shouldn't play a part in politics, the office, the classroom and especially in regards to how the country is run.

If you step over that line, then I will make it clear where I stand. Religious people can call me rude, lacking in morals, etc, but honestly, i can't see past the shiat you're displaying far enough to allow me the ability to care what you think.

I don't need you to tolerate me, i need you to keep your personal beliefs to yourselves.
 
2011-09-14 09:43:29 AM  
Ah good, the approved quote-bot is here.
 
2011-09-14 09:48:14 AM  

Rev. Skarekroe: 1) There are no atheists in foxholes.

That's not a myth, it's just an old saying intended to point out the horrors of war.


An ironic one at that. How anyone can be in the middle of a war zone and think, "there is an all-loving, all-powerful god" is beyond me.
 
2011-09-14 09:56:18 AM  

Rev. Skarekroe: 1) There are no atheists in foxholes.

That's not a myth, it's just an old saying intended to point out the horrors of war.


Interesting. My take on it was always: "When the chips are down, the important things become apparent." or some such.

/atheist
 
2011-09-14 10:00:58 AM  

Bevets: 6) Atheists don't have a moral code.

Acting morally and having a philosophical justification for your actions are two separate issues.


I think this one bothers the me the most. If atheist don't have a moral code but only a philosophical justification for not murdering doctors, blowing up abortion clinics, flying planes into buildings and stealing candy from babies, why are the prisons not full of atheists? If we are so amoral where are the atheist crimes of passion? Why are we not killing everyone that offends us? Why aren't atheists killing their wives for cheating on them? Why aren't atheists robbing banks? After all, we have no moral code to prevent us from acting any way we choose.

To put it another way, considering the how much people like Bevets annoy me, why have I not beat them severely with a Ball Peen Hammer? One, I have a moral code and two, I know the laws of humanity will punish me. The laws of god, not so much.
 
2011-09-14 10:18:32 AM  

Ennuipoet: Bevets: 6) Atheists don't have a moral code.

Acting morally and having a philosophical justification for your actions are two separate issues.

I think this one bothers the me the most. If atheist don't have a moral code but only a philosophical justification for not murdering doctors, blowing up abortion clinics, flying planes into buildings and stealing candy from babies, why are the prisons not full of atheists? If we are so amoral where are the atheist crimes of passion? Why are we not killing everyone that offends us? Why aren't atheists killing their wives for cheating on them? Why aren't atheists robbing banks? After all, we have no moral code to prevent us from acting any way we choose.

To put it another way, considering the how much people like Bevets annoy me, why have I not beat them severely with a Ball Peen Hammer? One, I have a moral code and two, I know the laws of humanity will punish me. The laws of god, not so much.


All well and good, but talk your way out of this picture, Mr. Atheist:

www.jonco48.com
 
2011-09-14 10:18:47 AM  
I thought that was very well written. Exactly how does that confirm your myths subby? Subby? Subby? where are you? If your going to take a shot like that have the guts to show up and defend it.

Oh well that confirms one of my myths about religious people. They are often cowards when attempting to have an honest conversation with athiests.
 
2011-09-14 10:25:04 AM  
Bevets:

Acting morally and having a philosophical justification for your actions are two separate issues.

Ennuipoet:

If atheist don't have a moral code but only a philosophical justification for not murdering doctors, blowing up abortion clinics, flying planes into buildings and stealing candy from babies, why are the prisons not full of atheists? If we are so amoral where are the atheist crimes of passion? Why are we not killing everyone that offends us?

You missed my point.
 
2011-09-14 10:35:48 AM  
Bevets: 6) Atheists don't have a moral code.

1. Do the right thing for fear of eternal suffering and damnation?
2. Do the right thing because it's right?


Which is "moral"?
 
2011-09-14 10:41:19 AM  

Bevets: C.S. Lewis


Fundamentalist Christian's opinions are Fundamentalist.

Bevets: We all believe, as an article of faith, that life evolved from dead matter on this planet. It is just that its complexity is so great, it is hard for us to imagine that it did. ~ Harold Urey


He really said "article of faith"? What an idiot.

Christians worship their own people's words so heavily, they assume the other folks do the same for their own people. The difference between you and us is that we are comfortable calling folks on our side idiots when they prove themselves to be.

Science changes according to the facts.

Religion never changes, regardless of what the facts are.
 
2011-09-14 10:42:22 AM  

Bevets: Acting morally and having a philosophical justification for your actions are two separate issues.


What is morality, my good friend Euthyphro?
 
2011-09-14 10:52:50 AM  
11.) Many atheists spend lots of time talking about their non-beliefs on the internet.

TRUE
 
2011-09-14 11:06:17 AM  

kronicfeld: Atheists are just jealous of Jesus's ripped abs.


Damn. Exposed for the fraud I am.
 
2011-09-14 11:09:58 AM  

Rev. Skarekroe: 1) There are no atheists in foxholes.

That's not a myth, it's just an old saying intended to point out the horrors of war.


I don't much care about this saying, one way or the other, but I've talked to atheist veterans who absolutely farking hate it when people say that.
 
2011-09-14 11:23:01 AM  
Oh, boy, this again.
 
2011-09-14 11:25:10 AM  
Atheists come in two flavors:

Atheists with problems. These people are atheists like Adam Carola. They only bring up their atheism when prompted and don't try to convert you or even argue about it. They have other fish to fry. Half the time, you might not even notice they're atheists unless you ask them directly about it.

Atheists without problems. These people are like any other missionaries. They are out to tell you how great it is to be an atheist and how and why you should be an atheist too. These people have nothing meaningful in their lives to deal with. If they did, they'd be too busy dealing with it.
 
2011-09-14 11:28:33 AM  
Help! I got atheists in my hole!


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2011-09-14 11:52:30 AM  
1) There are no atheists in foxholes.


If that's really the case, I'll believe whatever she wants me to believe:

i212.photobucket.com
 
2011-09-14 12:01:30 PM  

kronicfeld: Atheists are just jealous of Jesus's ripped abs.


This.
 
2011-09-14 12:01:44 PM  

Bevets: 2) Atheists are just angry with God. Atheists often point out the logical inconsistencies of many religious beliefs---such as the belief both that God is all-good and all-powerful, but he somehow also allows evil to exist---and believers use that to conclude that atheists are angry with God.

The ancient man approached God (or even the gods) as the accused person approaches his judge. For the modem man the roles are reversed. He is the judge: God is in the dock. He is quite a kindly judge: if God should have a reasonable defense for being the god who permits war, poverty, and disease, he is ready to listen to it. The trial may even end in God's acquittal. But the important thing is that man is on the bench and God in the dock. ~ C.S. Lewis

5) Atheism is just a faith like any other.

We all believe, as an article of faith, that life evolved from dead matter on this planet. It is just that its complexity is so great, it is hard for us to imagine that it did. ~ Harold Urey

6) Atheists don't have a moral code.

Acting morally and having a philosophical justification for your actions are two separate issues.


I am curious, Bevets: you have been informed previously that "quote mining" is an intellectually dishonest practice. For what reason, then, do you persist in engagement of this intellectually dishonest practice? Additionally, for what reason should any statement issued by you be considered to be credible given your reliance upon intellectually dishonest practices?
 
2011-09-14 12:04:38 PM  
What's the one where you don't care if He's real or not?

That's the one I tend to be.

Atheists are douches.
 
2011-09-14 12:05:05 PM  

RexTalionis: Oh, boy, this again.


Aaand this.
 
2011-09-14 12:05:41 PM  

PC LOAD LETTER: Religion never changes, regardless of what the facts are.


Is Christianity practiced exactly the same way that it was when it was founded? Is Judaism? Islam? Buddhism? Hinduism? Have they ever experienced change?
 
2011-09-14 12:06:26 PM  
I'm disappointed to see that I have something in common with Amanda Marcotte.
 
2011-09-14 12:06:43 PM  
2) Atheists are just angry with God.

Well, I've seen a lot that sure do protest too much, and strangely only about the one particular branch of one particular religion they were raised in and haven't been able to shake the guilt of. So yeah, there's some "rebellious teenagers" out there in the quest for defining a personal cosmology. They are usually the loudest and therefore get the most attention.
 
2011-09-14 12:06:46 PM  
Atheists are hedonists

Is that bad?
 
2011-09-14 12:07:04 PM  
Atheists stay crunchy, even in milk!
 
2011-09-14 12:07:07 PM  

Bevets: Bevets:

Acting morally and having a philosophical justification for your actions are two separate issues.

Ennuipoet:

If atheist don't have a moral code but only a philosophical justification for not murdering doctors, blowing up abortion clinics, flying planes into buildings and stealing candy from babies, why are the prisons not full of atheists? If we are so amoral where are the atheist crimes of passion? Why are we not killing everyone that offends us?

You missed my point.


So you are telling me that since Christians would not otherwise act in a right manner and might murder me if it weren't for their God... that they are psychopaths?
 
2011-09-14 12:07:27 PM  
don't you have an ark to find or something bevets? I get it, you feel compelled to try to "save" us. But you know what, some of us don't want to be saved by your people
 
2011-09-14 12:07:35 PM  
If you asked me how I could fervently not believe in god and still fervently object to being called an atheist, I would have to point you to this article.

You don't get to speak for all atheists, bimbo. Period. You're not the pope of atheism (that's Dawkins, duh.) You don't get to speak for the beliefs of atheists, aside from the obvious one. You need to STFU and move on.
 
2011-09-14 12:07:42 PM  
"Misunderstandings" would be a better word, save "myths" for the religious.
 
2011-09-14 12:08:37 PM  

Shazam999: What's the one where you don't care if He's real or not?

That's the one I tend to be.

Atheists are douches.


mmmmmm, 6/10

/that's being generous
 
2011-09-14 12:08:59 PM  
I have been an atheist since i was 15...it's painfully obvious that this god thing is just a scam...surely...???? i mean really?? Does anyone actually believe in that crap ??
 
2011-09-14 12:09:10 PM  

doglover: Atheists come in two flavors:

Atheists with problems. These people are atheists like Adam Carola. They only bring up their atheism when prompted and don't try to convert you or even argue about it. They have other fish to fry. Half the time, you might not even notice they're atheists unless you ask them directly about it.

Atheists without problems. These people are like any other missionaries. They are out to tell you how great it is to be an atheist and how and why you should be an atheist too. These people have nothing meaningful in their lives to deal with. If they did, they'd be too busy dealing with it.


Let's try this with other groups to see if we're just being a wee bit too simplistic:

Women with problems...
Women without problems...

Gays with problems...
Gays without problems...

Jews with problems...
Jews without problems...

Hispanics with problems...
Hispanics without problems...

Christians with problems...
Christians without problems...

Vegetarians with problems...
Vegetarians without problems...

Steelers fans with problems...
Steelers fans without problems...

Yea, I'm thinking you're being a bit too black-and-white in your characterization of atheists. Like any other group - majority or minority - it's really hard to shove everyone into one or two boxes just because actually getting to know the diversity within a group is difficult for lazy people. Especially when the boxes can be boiled down to "people in this group I can ignore and maintain my established worldview as perfectly correct" and "people in this group that I don't want to acknowledge but aren't quiet about being in this group".
 
2011-09-14 12:09:55 PM  
If you don't believe in God, why don't you shoot yourself in the foot!
 
2011-09-14 12:10:12 PM  
I was on my way to the emergency room with chest pains and I didn't try to bargain with God. I was calm...

...I was cured...
 
2011-09-14 12:10:20 PM  
I predict a well-reasoned, calm debate about the merits of organized religion in this thread.
 
2011-09-14 12:10:37 PM  
The most annoying atheists are the ones that are constantly remind people they are atheists as if they expect to win a prize for their brilliance in not believing in something. STFU already, everyone gets how smart you are. Why don't you prove it by going out and accomplishing something besides proclaiming your intelligence every time your socially inept brain tells you to.

/atheist embarrassed by a significant percentage of other atheists
 
2011-09-14 12:11:03 PM  
Subby is wrong and a farking idiot.

Dammit, just proved #3 right. Otherwise, they really are all wrong.
 
2011-09-14 12:11:53 PM  
A bearded sky fairy sent his son on a suicide mission to save us from being what we are.

Who should I make out the check to?
 
2011-09-14 12:12:23 PM  

trappedspirit: 2) Atheists are just angry with God.

Well, I've seen a lot that sure do protest too much, and strangely only about the one particular branch of one particular religion they were raised in and haven't been able to shake the guilt of. So yeah, there's some "rebellious teenagers" out there in the quest for defining a personal cosmology. They are usually the loudest and therefore get the most attention.


I was barked at by numerous dogs who are earning their food guarding ignorance and superstition for the benefit of those who profit from it. Then there are the fanatical atheists whose intolerance is of the same kind as the intolerance of the religious fanatics and comes from the same source. They are like slaves who are still feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle. They are creatures who-in their grudge against the traditional "opium of the people"-cannot bear the music of the spheres. The Wonder of nature does not become smaller because one cannot measure it by the standards of human moral and human aims. - Einstein

/Bevets mode activated
 
2011-09-14 12:12:25 PM  
The Swedish perspective:

I live in a country where around 80% are atheists. Most of my friends think of god in the same way that we think of santa claus. Sure, he might have a secret hideout on the north pole - but it seems pretty unlikely. So if you ask me why I don't belive in god I answer with a question in return: Why don't you belive in Santa?
 
2011-09-14 12:12:46 PM  
Reading number 1, I couldn't help but think of this:

imgs.xkcd.com
 
2011-09-14 12:13:01 PM  

Bevets: 2) Atheists are just angry with God. Atheists often point out the logical inconsistencies of many religious beliefs---such as the belief both that God is all-good and all-powerful, but he somehow also allows evil to exist---and believers use that to conclude that atheists are angry with God.

The ancient man approached God (or even the gods) as the accused person approaches his judge. For the modem man the roles are reversed. He is the judge: God is in the dock. He is quite a kindly judge: if God should have a reasonable defense for being the god who permits war, poverty, and disease, he is ready to listen to it. The trial may even end in God's acquittal. But the important thing is that man is on the bench and God in the dock. ~ C.S. Lewis

5) Atheism is just a faith like any other.

We all believe, as an article of faith, that life evolved from dead matter on this planet. It is just that its complexity is so great, it is hard for us to imagine that it did. ~ Harold Urey

6) Atheists don't have a moral code.

Acting morally and having a philosophical justification for your actions are two separate issues.



[Troll Feeding]

I can quote people too, only mine is going to be more run to listen/watch.

Storm, by Tim Minchin

[/Troll Feeding]

Trust me... it's a fun link. NSFW Language... get the headphones.
 
2011-09-14 12:13:15 PM  

St_Francis_P: Ennuipoet: Bevets: 6) Atheists don't have a moral code.

Acting morally and having a philosophical justification for your actions are two separate issues.

I think this one bothers the me the most. If atheist don't have a moral code but only a philosophical justification for not murdering doctors, blowing up abortion clinics, flying planes into buildings and stealing candy from babies, why are the prisons not full of atheists? If we are so amoral where are the atheist crimes of passion? Why are we not killing everyone that offends us? Why aren't atheists killing their wives for cheating on them? Why aren't atheists robbing banks? After all, we have no moral code to prevent us from acting any way we choose.

To put it another way, considering the how much people like Bevets annoy me, why have I not beat them severely with a Ball Peen Hammer? One, I have a moral code and two, I know the laws of humanity will punish me. The laws of god, not so much.

All well and good, but talk your way out of this picture, Mr. Atheist:

[www.jonco48.com image 640x480]


well, i could make a modest proposal, with present state of affairs.
 
2011-09-14 12:13:20 PM  
Athiests like clipperships. Clipper ships sail in the ocean. Athiests like the ocean. The ocean has many athiest clipperships. Clipperships have many ropes.
 
2011-09-14 12:13:50 PM  
What Internet Atheists remind me of. (new window)

/Atheist
//Farking HATES Internet Atheists
 
2011-09-14 12:13:51 PM  
what article did subby read?
 
2011-09-14 12:14:16 PM  

Headso: Atheists are hedonists

Is that bad?


I apologize for nothing.
theinfosphere.org
 
F42
2011-09-14 12:15:09 PM  

Bevets: The ancient man approached God (or even the gods)


Bevets is just angry at Thor.

It's not that he doesn't believe that Thor causes the thunder, it's that he's angry at him, so he pretends that he doesn't believe in Him.
 
2011-09-14 12:15:41 PM  
Atheists are like onions.
 
2011-09-14 12:16:34 PM  

Void_Beavis: RexTalionis: Oh, boy, this again.

Aaand this.


But it drives a great deal of traffic to Fark and gives us all an opportunity to point and laugh at Bevets for his horrible quote mining.
 
2011-09-14 12:17:11 PM  

Shazam999: Atheists are douches.


Your use of a personal attack does not constitute a logical argument.
 
2011-09-14 12:17:39 PM  

Big_Fat_Liar: The most annoying atheists are the ones that are constantly remind people they are atheists as if they expect to win a prize for their brilliance in not believing in something. STFU already, everyone gets how smart you are. Why don't you prove it by going out and accomplishing something besides proclaiming your intelligence every time your socially inept brain tells you to.

/atheist embarrassed by a significant percentage of other atheists


Significant? no. Arguing an Idea of belief is something everyone does. It's more of the squeaky wheel here, you see a large group of atheists bashing other religions and cramming it down their throats, but there is a larger percentage that just goes on with their day-to-day activities.
 
2011-09-14 12:17:40 PM  
First rule of atheism is "Drink! Feck!"

Oh wait, I'm not an atheist and that's a rule I have some days...
 
2011-09-14 12:17:42 PM  

Bevets: Bevets:

Acting morally and having a philosophical justification for your actions are two separate issues.

Ennuipoet:

If atheist don't have a moral code but only a philosophical justification for not murdering doctors, blowing up abortion clinics, flying planes into buildings and stealing candy from babies, why are the prisons not full of atheists? If we are so amoral where are the atheist crimes of passion? Why are we not killing everyone that offends us?

You missed my point.


Hey, Euthyphro Bevets, what makes an action moral?
 
2011-09-14 12:18:05 PM  

Bruxellensis: An omnipotent bearded sky fairy, who can do literally anything he wants to, decided that the best way to deal with things he doesn't like was to send his son on a suicide mission to save us from being what he made us in the first place.


Clarified that for you.
 
2011-09-14 12:18:10 PM  
homebrewedtheology.com
 
2011-09-14 12:18:23 PM  

Sticky Hands: Atheists are like onions.


delicious when diced in my mashed potatoes?
 
2011-09-14 12:18:32 PM  

ApeShaft: The Swedish perspective:

I live in a country where around 80% are atheists. Most of my friends think of god in the same way that we think of santa claus. Sure, he might have a secret hideout on the north pole - but it seems pretty unlikely. So if you ask me why I don't belive in god I answer with a question in return: Why don't you belive in Santa?


And we all know in Sweeden, everything is better. :)
 
2011-09-14 12:19:03 PM  

Sticky Hands: Atheists are like onions.


They make you cry as you peel away their layers, but are amazingly flavorful and sweet properly cooked ?
 
2011-09-14 12:19:41 PM  

Shazam999: What's the one where you don't care if He's real or not?


Apathist.
 
2011-09-14 12:19:42 PM  

Der Poopflinger: don't you have an ark to find or something bevets?


Nah, arks are Old And Busted:
Jeremiah 3:14-18: In those days, when your numbers have increased greatly in the land," declares the LORD, "people will no longer say, 'The ark of the covenant of the LORD.' It will never enter their minds or be remembered; it will not be missed, nor will another one be made.


Der Poopflinger: I get it, you feel compelled to try to "save" us.


Well, that's the New Hotness:
Matthew 28:16-20: Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.
 
2011-09-14 12:19:48 PM  
Madalyn Murray O'Hair is the most famous atheist of all time, so I don't know how Atheism is a white dude thing got to be a myth, unless they just made that up.
 
2011-09-14 12:19:54 PM  

Sticky Hands: Atheists are like onions.


They're delicious when battered and fried?
 
2011-09-14 12:20:07 PM  

St_Francis_P: All well and good, but talk your way out of this picture, Mr. Atheist:


Never heard of the other other white meat?
 
2011-09-14 12:20:34 PM  

Sticky Hands: Atheists are like onions.


I like to shove dozens of them up my ass and run around singing "I feel pretty" at the top of my lungs?

/I am a very strange person.
 
2011-09-14 12:20:43 PM  

Bevets: 5) Atheism is just a faith like any other.

We all believe, as an article of faith, that life evolved from dead matter on this planet. It is just that its complexity is so great, it is hard for us to imagine that it did. ~ Harold Urey


Wow, you are as clueless as they say. I cannot extend the courtesy of a doubt anymore.
 
2011-09-14 12:21:17 PM  

IamSporko: Sticky Hands: Atheists are like onions.

They're delicious when battered and fried?


Who isn't?
 
2011-09-14 12:21:20 PM  

Dimensio: I am curious, Bevets: you have been informed previously that "quote mining" is an intellectually dishonest practice. For what reason, then, do you persist in engagement of this intellectually dishonest practice? Additionally, for what reason should any statement issued by you be considered to be credible given your reliance upon intellectually dishonest practices?


He's also been told linking to his own damn site is not "evidence", no matter how much he thinks it is. Doesn't stop him though.
 
rpm
2011-09-14 12:21:26 PM  

deadcrickets: So you are telling me that since Christians would not otherwise act in a right manner and might murder me if it weren't for their God... that they are psychopaths?


This. If atheists can't be moral, then all theists are psychopaths.

You can't have it both ways bevets.
 
2011-09-14 12:22:08 PM  

JPJ007: Bruxellensis: An omnipotent bearded sky fairy, who can do literally anything he wants to, decided that the best way to deal with things he doesn't like was to send his son on a suicide mission to save us from being what he made us in the first place.

Clarified that for you.


Makes perfect sense. So, can I just sign over my paycheck to this religion stuff?
 
2011-09-14 12:22:35 PM  
A much better "ten myths about atheism" article (new window) (by Sam Harris, no less).
 
2011-09-14 12:23:02 PM  

Barael's Blade: Void_Beavis: RexTalionis: Oh, boy, this again.

Aaand this.

But it drives a great deal of traffic to Fark and gives us all an opportunity to point and laugh at Bevets for his horrible quote mining.


Indeed.

/getting a kick out of these replies
//etc
 
2011-09-14 12:23:03 PM  

IamSporko: Sticky Hands: Atheists are like onions.

They're delicious when battered and fried?


Or we make you cry if you cut us?
 
2011-09-14 12:23:33 PM  

Dimensio: Shazam999: Atheists are douches.

Your use of a personal attack does not constitute a logical argument.


Are you a nice person? Do you care if people think you are? If you don't, then why do you care so much about what other people think?
 
2011-09-14 12:23:38 PM  
Some 'Splainin' To Do 2011-09-14 11:09:58 AM

Rev. Skarekroe: 1) There are no atheists in foxholes.

That's not a myth, it's just an old saying intended to point out the horrors of war.

I don't much care about this saying, one way or the other, but I've talked to atheist veterans who absolutely farking hate it when people say that.


Count me in that group.
Hardest thing ever was to convince S1 to actually put "Atheist" on my dog tags instead of "No Religious Preference"
 
2011-09-14 12:24:03 PM  
The only "problem" I have with Atheists is they spend too much time critizing Christianity and ignore Islam. I understand why though, if you talk crap about Islam they'll blow you up, if you talk crap about Christianity they'll usually just pray for you or leer at your unapprovingly.
 
2011-09-14 12:24:17 PM  
Bevets must be close to level if he's looking for troll XP outside of the evolution threads.
 
2011-09-14 12:25:03 PM  

A challenger appears: The only "problem" I have with Atheists is they spend too much time critizing Christianity and ignore Islam. I understand why though, if you talk crap about Islam they'll blow you up, if you talk crap about Christianity they'll usually just pray for you or leer at your unapprovingly.


Gee, sparky, maybe the atheists you talk to don't live in a society dominated by islam.
 
2011-09-14 12:25:18 PM  

F42: Bevets: The ancient man approached God (or even the gods)

Bevets is just angry at Thor.

It's not that he doesn't believe that Thor causes the thunder, it's that he's angry at him, so he pretends that he doesn't believe in Him.


img525.imageshack.us
 
2011-09-14 12:25:25 PM  
Let's get this all out of the way:


Bald is a hair color.
Not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Just because you can't see the purple unicorn in my living room doesn't prove it isn't there.
 
2011-09-14 12:25:58 PM  

StaleCoffee: Bevets must be close to level if he's looking for troll XP outside of the evolution threads.


Read his posts. He equates science with atheism, so to him he isn't stepping outside of his usual haunts by coming to these threads.
 
2011-09-14 12:26:43 PM  

A challenger appears: The only "problem" I have with Atheists is they spend too much time critizing Christianity and ignore Islam. I understand why though, if you talk crap about Islam they'll blow you up, if you talk crap about Christianity they'll usually just pray for you or leer at your unapprovingly.


That's mostly because, in the US at least, it's not the Muslims trying to legislate their morality or cripple science education.
 
2011-09-14 12:27:31 PM  

Bevets: 2) Atheists are just angry with God. Atheists often point out the logical inconsistencies of many religious beliefs---such as the belief both that God is all-good and all-powerful, but he somehow also allows evil to exist---and believers use that to conclude that atheists are angry with God.

The ancient man approached God (or even the gods) as the accused person approaches his judge. For the modem man the roles are reversed. He is the judge: God is in the dock. He is quite a kindly judge: if God should have a reasonable defense for being the god who permits war, poverty, and disease, he is ready to listen to it. The trial may even end in God's acquittal. But the important thing is that man is on the bench and God in the dock. ~ C.S. Lewis

5) Atheism is just a faith like any other.

We all believe, as an article of faith, that life evolved from dead matter on this planet. It is just that its complexity is so great, it is hard for us to imagine that it did. ~ Harold Urey

6) Atheists don't have a moral code.

Acting morally and having a philosophical justification for your actions are two separate issues.


There's one little thing that drives most knowledgeable atheists up the wall. It just happens to be the case that the set of atheists closely intersects the set of far-left liberals and so-called "progressives." Not totally, to be sure, but still a very large percentage of overlap. Now there is, in fact, a well thought out philosophical justification for moral actions that has nothing to do with God or religion. The only problem with it is the person who thought it out gives far-left liberals and so-called "progressives" a case of the dry heaves: Ayn Rand

Just one more reason for libbie/proggie cognitive dissonance and for basement dwellers to reach for the Jergens in attempts to blot it out.
 
2011-09-14 12:27:58 PM  
"I..." "am..." "a..." "moron..."
-Shakespere

Your arguments are invalid.
 
2011-09-14 12:28:09 PM  
Amanda Marcotte co-writes the blog Pandagon. She is the author of It's a Jungle Out There: The Feminist Survival Guide to Politically Inhospitable Environments.

Ms. Marcotte is not an atheist. She just believes in particularly ridiculous supernatural things and regards them as non-supernatural.

/actual atheist
 
2011-09-14 12:28:17 PM  
Many people who call themselves Atheists are actually Anti-theists.

Pretty much if you get a kick out of annoying theists and actually give 2 shiats what theists do you are an anti-theist, not an Atheist.

Anti-theists are to Atheists what Westboro Baptist type fundies are to Theists.
 
2011-09-14 12:28:42 PM  

snuff3r: I got as far as "pleading for tolerance of atheists".

As an atheist i couldn't care less what you religious people believe - personally, i think you're all braindamaged to have not let go of the beliefs I had as a six year old. But in the course of my day, i couldn't give a rats ass about any of you and what you believe in. I don't want to hear it. I don't want to be aware of it. I don't want you to force your beliefs on me or my kids. I want you to keep it to yourselves. Religion shouldn't play a part in politics, the office, the classroom and especially in regards to how the country is run.

If you step over that line, then I will make it clear where I stand. Religious people can call me rude, lacking in morals, etc, but honestly, i can't see past the shiat you're displaying far enough to allow me the ability to care what you think.

I don't need you to tolerate me, i need you to keep your personal beliefs to yourselves.


You're quite right. Let's junk all this religious dogma that keeps interfering with what we want to do. I personally feel we should get rid of all these religious laws that slop over from this whole God thing. I mean, really, "Thou shalt not kill?" That's the first one I'd get rid of. Democrats should be used as targets. Along with their wives, children and pets. Morality is a phoney, religious construct. I should be able to rape, torture and steal to my own satisfaction.

Atheists would be the first to agree. Right?

 
2011-09-14 12:28:45 PM  

A challenger appears: The only "problem" I have with Atheists is they spend too much time critizing Christianity and ignore Islam. I understand why though, if you talk crap about Islam they'll blow you up, if you talk crap about Christianity they'll usually just pray for you or leer at your unapprovingly.


I suspect that's owing to you living in the US, where the oppressive religious movements are typically Christian, not Muslim (and suspect you'll find the same opposition to institutionalizing *any* religion from that crowd).

/not an atheist
 
2011-09-14 12:30:00 PM  
The vast majority of atheists just don't give a crap about religion. They don't argue about it on the Internet, they don't try to convert anyone to their way of thinking and they say "Thank you" when someone wishes them a Merry Christmas or Happy Diwali.
 
2011-09-14 12:30:18 PM  

Rev. Skarekroe: 1) There are no atheists in foxholes.

That's not a myth, it's just an old saying intended to point out the horrors of war.


Everyone in a foxhole is an atheist. People get in foxholes because they are afraid to die, and no "True Believer" would possibly fear death.
 
2011-09-14 12:30:36 PM  
1.) There are no theists at funerals

/think about it
//it's just as true and false as it's corollary: no atheists in foxholes
 
2011-09-14 12:31:13 PM  

bookman: Now there is, in fact, a well thought out philosophical justification for moral actions that has nothing to do with God or religion. The only problem with it is the person who thought it out gives far-left liberals and so-called "progressives" a case of the dry heaves: Ayn Rand


Except for the description "well thought out" and the implication that it's the only philosophical justification that has nothing to do with deities or dogma, you're right.
 
2011-09-14 12:31:22 PM  

daxxenos: You're quite right. Let's junk all this religious dogma that keeps interfering with what we want to do. I personally feel we should get rid of all these religious laws that slop over from this whole God thing. I mean, really, "Thou shalt not kill?" That's the first one I'd get rid of. Democrats should be used as targets. Along with their wives, children and pets. Morality is a phoney, religious construct. I should be able to rape, torture and steal to my own satisfaction.


farkin hell you're dumb.
 
2011-09-14 12:31:24 PM  

A challenger appears: The only "problem" I have with Atheists is they spend too much time critizing Christianity and ignore Islam. I understand why though, if you talk crap about Islam they'll blow you up, if you talk crap about Christianity they'll usually just pray for you or leer at your unapprovingly.


7/10, though I may revise this score depending how many bites you get.
 
2011-09-14 12:31:42 PM  
Kome:

Read his posts. He equates science with atheism, so to him he isn't stepping outside of his usual haunts by coming to these threads.

I would think you would have a better handle on my arguments by now.
 
2011-09-14 12:31:47 PM  
Which 9, Subby?
 
2011-09-14 12:32:09 PM  
Faith is the bane of mankind.
 
2011-09-14 12:32:26 PM  

Kome: StaleCoffee: Bevets must be close to level if he's looking for troll XP outside of the evolution threads.

Read his posts. He equates science with atheism, so to him he isn't stepping outside of his usual haunts by coming to these threads.


It must suck when he wants to boil water.

I guess I need to reassess my beliefs regarding where Bevets trolls, then.
 
2011-09-14 12:32:38 PM  

daxxenos: You're quite right. Let's junk all this religious dogma that keeps interfering with what we want to do. I personally feel we should get rid of all these religious laws that slop over from this whole God thing. I mean, really, "Thou shalt not kill?" That's the first one I'd get rid of. Democrats should be used as targets. Along with their wives, children and pets. Morality is a phoney, religious construct. I should be able to rape, torture and steal to my own satisfaction.
Atheists would be the first to agree. Right?


I'm sorry, there's a law specifically called "Thou Shalt Not Kill"? Does the military know about this? They clearly are in violation. And Governor Perry too, since he's had 240+ people executed.

Or are you talking about homicide laws, which are more than one single law and cover a myriad of situations from involuntary manslaughter to first degree murder? Because I don't think "thou shalt not kill" quite covers it, do you?
 
2011-09-14 12:33:02 PM  

JPJ007: IamSporko: Sticky Hands: Atheists are like onions.

They're delicious when battered and fried?

Who isn't?


Mormons?
 
2011-09-14 12:33:05 PM  

Gurrker: Faith in mankind is the bane of mankind.

 
2011-09-14 12:33:09 PM  

ApeShaft: The Swedish perspective:

I live in a country where around 80% are atheists. Most of my friends think of god in the same way that we think of santa claus. Sure, he might have a secret hideout on the north pole - but it seems pretty unlikely. So if you ask me why I don't belive in god I answer with a question in return: Why don't you belive in Santa?


Why don't you just hike down the street to the North Pole to see if God and Santa actually are there? You're in a privileged position to research this for the rest of us! I'll await your report.
 
kgf
2011-09-14 12:33:19 PM  

FireBreathingLiberal: Bevets: 6) Atheists don't have a moral code.

1. Do the right thing for fear of eternal suffering and damnation?
2. Do the right thing because it's right?


Which is "moral"?


THIS.

Bevets, I ask you: Who is more moral, the man who refrains from harming others because of fear of eternity in Hell, or the man who refrains from harming others because he chooses to of his own free will?

The one bad thing about being an atheist is that when we're both dead, since there is no afterlife I won't be able to remind you that I was right.

/Childish? Yes. Immoral? No.
 
2011-09-14 12:33:41 PM  

TsarTom: Rev. Skarekroe: 1) There are no atheists in foxholes.

That's not a myth, it's just an old saying intended to point out the horrors of war.

Interesting. My take on it was always: "When the chips are down, the important things become apparent." or some such.

/atheist


I interpret it as: "When things get bad enough, even an atheist will ask God for help as a last resort" I believe it to be true - what have you got to lose at that point?
 
2011-09-14 12:33:50 PM  

s2s2s2: Gurrker: Faith in mankind is the bane of God's reputation.

 
2011-09-14 12:34:09 PM  

IamSporko: JPJ007: IamSporko: Sticky Hands: Atheists are like onions.

They're delicious when battered and fried?

Who isn't?

Mormons


You have to shuck them out of the magic underwear first. Common mistake.
 
2011-09-14 12:34:12 PM  

PC LOAD LETTER: Religion never changes, regardless of what the facts are.


Sure it does. Just listen to a Christian defend their non-Christian behaviors. What is acceptable to God changes on a minute-to-minute basis depending on whatever situation they happen to be in at the moment.

"Pre-marital sex is a sin and an abomination unto the Lord!! You're all going to burn in hell!!"

"Uh, your teenage daughter is pregnant."

"Well, at least she didn't use birth control!! Using birth control is an even bigger sin than premarital sex!"

"They used a condom, but it broke."

"Uh, well, um, at least she didn't have an abortion! That is the true crime in the eyes of the Lord!"

"Yeah, about that - she had an abortion."

"Her situation was different! That doesn't count! At least she's not a dirty homosexual!!"

"I hate to tell you this, but...."

"LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!"
 
2011-09-14 12:34:38 PM  

Oldiron_79: Many people who call themselves Atheists are actually Anti-theists.

Pretty much if you get a kick out of annoying theists and actually give 2 shiats what theists do you are an anti-theist, not an Atheist.

Anti-theists are to Atheists what Westboro Baptist type fundies are to Theists.


Anti-Theism is something specific, as is Theism and Atheism.

Just because you think some folks are assholes doesn't mean you get to redefine them out of your social club. See: Scottish Christians.
 
2011-09-14 12:35:54 PM  

iollow: "Misunderstandings" would be a better word, save "myths" for the religious.


If you RTFA, you would see that the article is about the myths that religious people hold about atheists.

In other words, the writer of the article already did what you are suggesting.
 
2011-09-14 12:35:57 PM  

kgf: The one bad thing about being an atheist is that when we're both dead, since there is no afterlife I won't be able to remind you that I was right.


Well, at least at that point you won't care about it.
 
2011-09-14 12:36:01 PM  

IamSporko: JPJ007: IamSporko: Sticky Hands: Atheists are like onions.

They're delicious when battered and fried?

Who isn't?

Mormons?


Yeah, the special underwear still tastes like shiat even with batter.
 
2011-09-14 12:36:43 PM  

pwhp_67: Let's get this all out of the way:


Bald is a hair color.
Not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Just because you can't see the purple unicorn in my living room doesn't prove it isn't there.


I take it as an article of faith that I am seeing this on the internet.
 
2011-09-14 12:38:02 PM  

wiregeek: Sticky Hands: Atheists are like onions.

delicious when diced in my mashed potatoes?


What kind of Philistine puts onions in mashed potatos?
 
2011-09-14 12:38:09 PM  
As an ethical guide, religion has largely been descriptive and not prescriptive. Religion does not provide an absolute, unchanging rock upon which one can build a moral society. Instead, religion codifies the ethics of the society containing it and assigns to them cosmic import.
 
2011-09-14 12:38:11 PM  

daxxenos: I personally feel we should get rid of all these religious laws that slop over from this whole God thing. I mean, really, "Thou shalt not kill?" That's the first one I'd get rid of. Democrats should be used as targets. Along with their wives, children and pets. Morality is a phoney, religious construct. I should be able to rape, torture and steal to my own satisfaction.


So you are a psychopath who only does the right thing because the preacher that raped you when you were 10 told you those were bad things?

You really can't figure out why some things are wrong if an invisible sky fairy, speaking through some guy with good hair on TV doesn't tell you?
 
2011-09-14 12:38:14 PM  
Can't believe I haven't seen that lovely last resort, "B-b-but what you're WRONG????????"
 
2011-09-14 12:38:20 PM  

The Face Of Oblivion: Amanda Marcotte co-writes the blog Pandagon. She is the author of It's a Jungle Out There: The Feminist Survival Guide to Politically Inhospitable Environments.

Ms. Marcotte is not an atheist. She just believes in particularly ridiculous supernatural things and regards them as non-supernatural.

/actual atheist


She's also not a true Scotswoman.
 
2011-09-14 12:38:23 PM  
Oh you sillies!

The important thing is that atheists can be tied to the belt, which is the style at this time. You don't want the white athiests, because of the angst and the macbooks (iProducts are ok) and stupid clothes. The best ones you can get are those yellow ones or fine brown.
 
2011-09-14 12:39:36 PM  
Atheist is not my word. I don't need a word for something that isn't. I don't need a word because I'm not into basketball or knitting. As far as I'm concerned, you have a hobby that I'm not keen on. Some people don't like dogs, we need a name for those sons of biatches.
 
2011-09-14 12:40:30 PM  
I'm not sure why we all still argue about religion when it is pretty clear that we all live inside the matrix anyway. Weren't those 3 documentaries just thrilling to watch?
 
2011-09-14 12:40:30 PM  
StaleCoffee: Oldiron_79: Many people who call themselves Atheists are actually Anti-theists.

Pretty much if you get a kick out of annoying theists and actually give 2 shiats what theists do you are an anti-theist, not an Atheist.

Anti-theists are to Atheists what Westboro Baptist type fundies are to Theists.

Anti-Theism is something specific, as is Theism and Atheism.

Just because you think some folks are assholes doesn't mean you get to redefine them out of your social club. See: Scottish Christians.


I'm not in the Atheist or the Theist club, I'm in the Deist club.
 
2011-09-14 12:40:54 PM  
God put atheist on earth to feed the dinosaurs but the devil killed them off with a climate changing comet.
 
2011-09-14 12:41:01 PM  

wumpus: Some people don't like dogs, we need a name for those sons of biatches.


Acaniphile.
 
kgf
2011-09-14 12:42:02 PM  

Shazam999: What's the one where you don't care if He's real or not?

That's the one I tend to be.

Atheists are douches.


If you don't care and you don't believe, you're already an atheist, so you just called yourself a douche.

If you don't care and you do believe, you're an idiot because you don't realize the absurdity of your own viewpoint.

So which is it - douche or idiot? I'm guessing you're an idiot.
 
2011-09-14 12:42:18 PM  
Oh good god. Not this thread again.

Don't preach or legislate your beliefs to me, and I will return the favor.
 
2011-09-14 12:42:20 PM  

uprislng: I'm not sure why we all still argue about religion when it is pretty clear that we all live inside the matrix anyway. Weren't those 3 documentaries just thrilling to watch?


The first one was, the second was visually okay but not much else, finally the third one made me believe in god only so I could have someone to blame for it...
 
2011-09-14 12:42:41 PM  
Unfortunately, many Christians see the minor tweaks to Christmas as destroying the holidays.

I'd prefer to keep celebrating Christmas in the secular way I have for the past 5-6 years, but some in my extended family as well as my in-laws made it abundantly clear they did not believe atheists should be celebrating Christmas last year. They then wondered why my wife and I got rather upset with them, as if a "Well, we didn't mean you!" was going to be enough to apologize.
 
2011-09-14 12:42:48 PM  

Grenwulf: Some 'Splainin' To Do 2011-09-14 11:09:58 AM

Rev. Skarekroe: 1) There are no atheists in foxholes.

That's not a myth, it's just an old saying intended to point out the horrors of war.

I don't much care about this saying, one way or the other, but I've talked to atheist veterans who absolutely farking hate it when people say that.

Count me in that group.
Hardest thing ever was to convince S1 to actually put "Atheist" on my dog tags instead of "No Religious Preference"


And it had never occured to you that using the term "no religious preference" means you belong to no group nor belief system while insisting on having it replaced with the term "atheist" implies you strongly beleive that you are the member of a particualr belief system?
 
2011-09-14 12:42:52 PM  

kgf: Bevets, I ask you: Who is more moral, the man who refrains from harming others because of fear of eternity in Hell, or the man who refrains from harming others because he chooses to of his own free will?


Weith or not there is fear of punishment, they are both acting of their own free will. Fear of punishment does not take away free will. I'm my experiance though, fear of hell simpley or desire of heaven isn't much of a motivator at all. The thiests I know that are truly good and moral people siimpley are so, much like that athiests that are. I've know more that my share of thiests that say more or less" I'm going to hell for this... oh well"
 
2011-09-14 12:42:53 PM  

muck4doo: 11.) Many atheists spend lots of time talking about their non-beliefs on the internet.

TRUE


Speak for yourself, man!

(whoops)
 
2011-09-14 12:42:55 PM  

wumpus: Some people don't like dogs, we need a name for those sons of biatches.


Koreans? Vietnamese? I guess a different kind of love doesn't qualify. NM.
 
2011-09-14 12:43:19 PM  
It's funny how you never see atheists get retarded over Buddhists and their stupid misguided imaginary religion.

90% of Atheists = angry ex-Christians.
 
2011-09-14 12:43:34 PM  
Love me a good Bevets thread. He comes in, drops one off, and you all eat it up. If you have been here more than 6 months, you should know better.

Don't stop though. It's entertaining.
 
2011-09-14 12:43:48 PM  
Best part -
"I always flinch in embarrassment for the believer who trots out, "Atheism is just another kind of faith," because it's a tacit admission that taking claims on faith is a silly thing to do. When you've succumbed to arguing that the opposition is just as misguided as you are, it's time to take a step back and rethink your attitudes."

Guess Bevets missed that one. What a moron.
 
2011-09-14 12:43:51 PM  
Bevets is like a metaphor for science, he's a mathematical constant. You can always count on him to be wrong in exactly the same way.
 
2011-09-14 12:43:53 PM  

wumpus: Atheist is not my word. I don't need a word for something that isn't.


But you see these are religious people - they have a whole book about a guy who isn't.
 
2011-09-14 12:44:23 PM  

snuff3r: As an atheist i couldn't care less what you religious people believe - personally, i think you're all braindamaged to have not let go of the beliefs I had as a six year old. But in the course of my day, i couldn't give a rats ass about any of you and what you believe in. I don't want to hear it. I don't want to be aware of it. I don't want you to force your beliefs on me or my kids. I want you to keep it to yourselves. Religion shouldn't play a part in politics, the office, the classroom and especially in regards to how the country is run.

If you step over that line, then I will make it clear where I stand. Religious people can call me rude, lacking in morals, etc, but honestly, i can't see past the shiat you're displaying far enough to allow me the ability to care what you think.

I don't need you to tolerate me, i need you to keep your personal beliefs to yourselves.



Is this sarcasm, or did you just confirm myth 3) Atheists are aggressive and rude.
 
2011-09-14 12:44:32 PM  

Oldiron_79: StaleCoffee: Oldiron_79: Many people who call themselves Atheists are actually Anti-theists.

Pretty much if you get a kick out of annoying theists and actually give 2 shiats what theists do you are an anti-theist, not an Atheist.

Anti-theists are to Atheists what Westboro Baptist type fundies are to Theists.

Anti-Theism is something specific, as is Theism and Atheism.

Just because you think some folks are assholes doesn't mean you get to redefine them out of your social club. See: Scottish Christians.

I'm not in the Atheist or the Theist club, I'm in the Deist club.


So you're demonstrably wrong. Okay. Doesn't change what I said.
 
2011-09-14 12:44:40 PM  

Jackson Herring: daxxenos: You're quite right. Let's junk all this religious dogma that keeps interfering with what we want to do. I personally feel we should get rid of all these religious laws that slop over from this whole God thing. I mean, really, "Thou shalt not kill?" That's the first one I'd get rid of. Democrats should be used as targets. Along with their wives, children and pets. Morality is a phoney, religious construct. I should be able to rape, torture and steal to my own satisfaction.

farkin hell you're dumb.


The scary thing is it implies the only reason daxxenos isn't raping, torturing, and stealing is fear of god, and if god didn't exist, he would do those things.

Scarier still is his hatred of his fellow Americans that also happen to be Democrats and desire to see them dead.
 
2011-09-14 12:45:18 PM  

Ennuipoet: One, I have a moral code and two, I know the laws of humanity will punish me. The laws of god, not so much.


I think it goes deeper than that. I think human kind, in general, has an imbedded "moral code". It may be that our ancestors instilled in us a "fear of god", but in general, we are mostly good.

If any of you haven't read it, there is a book that deals with this issue titled Towing Jehovah, by James Morrow. It's a rather good read.
 
2011-09-14 12:45:29 PM  

Oldiron_79: I'm not in the Atheist or the Theist club, I'm in the Deist club.


Mind explaining your position, then? Most self-described deists I've met seem to either just equate God with nature, or just say God was the Prime Mover (or First Cause) and that's it. What are your thoughts on God?
 
2011-09-14 12:45:33 PM  
PC LOAD LETTER

CS Lewis was **NOT** a fundamentalist.

I dont think you know what the word means.
 
2011-09-14 12:46:04 PM  

Bevets: Kome:

Read his posts. He equates science with atheism, so to him he isn't stepping outside of his usual haunts by coming to these threads.

I would think you would have a better handle on my arguments by now.


Your arguments? You don't have any, when you get right down to it. You have quotes from scientists you understand poorly and/or use out of context, you have quotes from shills and liars that you promote as if they had some kind of authority, all of which you use because you are motivated by an irrational need to defend your dogmatic worldview from perceived threats.

You don't have arguments. You have talking points you repeat, primarily to yourself, to protect yourself against the anxiety and cognitive dissonance you experience due to holding on to irrational beliefs as part of your identiy and sense of self that are constantly challenged at a fundamental and inescapabl level by science, simply as an inadvertent consequence of science simply existing. Your fear of being wrong, of having your cherished ideas that for you simply must be true shown to instead be empty myths drives you to obsession.

It's pitiable, really. In all this time you have been so zealously posting on Fark and elsewhere, you have not learned one single new thing, and meanwhile science has marched onwards and learned yet more about the universe, making you even more irrelevant.
 
2011-09-14 12:46:26 PM  

Hyperbolic Hyperbole: It's funny how you never see atheists get retarded over Buddhists and their stupid misguided imaginary religion.

90% of Atheists = angry ex-Christians.


I'm sure it's in no way owing to the predominant religion of the culture in which you live .

/get a new troll or sense of perspective; either way
 
2011-09-14 12:46:48 PM  

A challenger appears: The only "problem" I have with Atheists is they spend too much time critizing Christianity and ignore Islam. I understand why though, if you talk crap about Islam they'll blow you up they've never personally met an evangelizing Muslim.


People talk about what they're familiar with.
 
2011-09-14 12:47:11 PM  

Hyperbolic Hyperbole: It's funny how you never see atheists get retarded over Buddhists and their stupid misguided imaginary religion.

90% of Atheists = angry ex-Christians.


Are Buddhists in America trying to violate the secular nature of our government?
 
2011-09-14 12:47:16 PM  

GilRuiz1: PC LOAD LETTER: Religion never changes, regardless of what the facts are.

Is Christianity practiced exactly the same way that it was when it was founded?


No, and that's a good point to bring up. Once Christianity clawed its way to the top in Europe, it somehow managed to always provide the moral and religious backing for whatever political trend was in vogue.

Feudalism? The Bible explains clearly why you must submit to your betters.

Monarchy? Here, let me provide the Biblical backing for the Divine Rights of Kings.

Nationalism? Absolutely. It's God's will that you go fight for your country.

Elections? A good, Christian concept. We are all God's children.

Women's suffrage? Bad idea, the Bible clearly states that women must be submissive to the leader of the household.

Women's suffrage? Great idea, those Bible quotes are taken out of context.

Slavery? Oh yes, clearly backed by the Bible.

Abolition of Slavery? Oh yes, clearly backed by the Bible.

Anti-semitism? Tons of Biblical support for that. Go burn some Jews.

Anti-anti-semitism? A moral obligation for any good Christian.

Basically, whatever the Big Cheese says, some Christians will find a way to back. The idea of Christianity as a rock-solid unwavering foundation for a robust set of morals is utterly contradicted by history.
 
2011-09-14 12:47:47 PM  

Shazam999: What's the one where you don't care if He's real or not?

That's the one I tend to be.

Atheists are douches.


Response in kind: You're intellectually lazy and dishonest. And also a douche.
 
rpm
2011-09-14 12:48:28 PM  

Oldiron_79: I'm not in the Atheist or the Theist club, I'm in the Deist club.


Deism has a god. You're theist, just areligious.
 
2011-09-14 12:48:28 PM  
I'm notifying the admins about this thread, because they should know that one user constantly breaks the posting rules.

/hold your breath...
 
2011-09-14 12:48:44 PM  

justtray: "When you've succumbed to arguing that the opposition is just as misguided as you are, it's time to take a step back and rethink your attitudes"


"But republicans voted to raise the Derp Ceiling Derpteen timez!"

I agree!
 
2011-09-14 12:48:56 PM  

Shazam999: Dimensio: Shazam999: Atheists are douches.

Your use of a personal attack does not constitute a logical argument.

Are you a nice person? Do you care if people think you are? If you don't, then why do you care so much about what other people think?


You have still presented no logical argument.
 
2011-09-14 12:48:56 PM  
Ah, I see after visiting this Bevets fellow's website that he has the reasoning ability of a young child. Nevermind.
 
2011-09-14 12:49:04 PM  

Marley'sGirl: TsarTom: Rev. Skarekroe: 1) There are no atheists in foxholes.

That's not a myth, it's just an old saying intended to point out the horrors of war.

Interesting. My take on it was always: "When the chips are down, the important things become apparent." or some such.

/atheist

I interpret it as: "When things get bad enough, even an atheist will ask God for help as a last resort" I believe it to be true - what have you got to lose at that point?


That's... an interesting point. I'm reminded of Dustin Hoffman's character in 'Sphere' at some critical climax in the story:

'I'm an athiest... but flexible'.

Frankly, we're I held up at gunpoint, or in the midst of some similar crisis, I'd probably petition any and every potential hope of rescue in the omniverse such as the police, a neighbour, an MMA fighter, a postal worker, Clint Eastwood, the Coast Guard, Army, Air Force, Navy, Marines, Superman, Batman, Gundams, the UNSC, Starfleet, Yahve, Buddha, Zeus, Ra, anything to even the odds in the face of imminent death.

I do not fear death, just dying. Also, arguments with the girlfriend. Oh, the prayers I have invoked to beings both unknowable and terrifying in the face of her wrath.
 
2011-09-14 12:49:44 PM  

trappedspirit: 2) Atheists are just angry with God.

Well, I've seen a lot that sure do protest too much, and strangely only about the one particular branch of one particular religion they were raised in and haven't been able to shake the guilt of. So yeah, there's some "rebellious teenagers" out there in the quest for defining a personal cosmology. They are usually the loudest and therefore get the most attention.


I'll admit that there's some truth to this. Coming out as an atheist can be a hard thing in a culture that puts a premium on religious beliefs, and I've spoken to more than a few atheists who have been effectively disowned because of it.

When that happens, a certain amount of anger is natural and normal, and it makes sense that it'd be focused on the religion that the person is leaving behind, and you're correct that this does make up a certain fraction of atheist rhetoric and that's it's a fairly vocal segment.

However, I hate the implication that the only good atheist is a quiet atheist. In almost any other area of thought, it's considered perfectly normal to advocate for positions that you believe to be true. We don't, in general, just bash people for espousing political, philosophical, or religious beliefs (although we might bash the specific beliefs and arguments made for them), but there's this weird consensus that atheism is an exception and that it's gauche to make any arguments at all in favor of it when even the sloppiest religious apologist gets a free pass to espouse theism at the expense of atheism.

On principle, I don't like closets, and I think that this attitude is geared towards trying to keep atheists in the closet. Having come from an era where being an open atheist could cost you your job, your family connections, and make you a social pariah, I think that I owe a debt of thanks to people like Dawkins and Hitchens for getting atheism out in the public sphere and for making it easier for people to openly declare their atheism.

Yes, their rhetoric was often obnoxious, but when the polite thing is to be silent and invisible, it may well be the case that you need a bit of confrontationism to break through the social status quo.

To borrow an example from the gay rights movement, chanting "We're here, we're queer, get used to it!" wasn't a very nice thing to say. But it was effective.
 
2011-09-14 12:49:45 PM  
I'd like to rebut point 7. Most peoples' lives are bleak and lack meaning. They just refuse to acknowledge it.
 
2011-09-14 12:49:55 PM  

Sticky Hands: Atheists are like onions.


They make me fart?
 
2011-09-14 12:50:11 PM  

drmda: Is this sarcasm, or did you just confirm myth 3) Atheists are aggressive and rude.


No, but you have just confirmed the existence of "confirmation bias."
 
2011-09-14 12:50:34 PM  
I think arguments like these can only be solved in one way

a nerf war

the rule is, you have to pass a simple test before you will be handed your nerf gun and ammunition
 
2011-09-14 12:50:56 PM  

wumpus: Some people don't like dogs, we need a name for those sons of biatches.


Dyslexic atheists?
 
2011-09-14 12:51:41 PM  
If religion is an invention, it was invented by Atheists. Thanks a lot!
 
2011-09-14 12:51:43 PM  

A challenger appears: The only "problem" I have with Atheists is they spend too much time critizing Christianity and ignore Islam.


For what reason are you lying?
 
2011-09-14 12:51:50 PM  
But targeting people in moments of weakness to sell them religion is regarded as a normal and even virtuous strategy for proselytizing.

My father died from cancer last year on May 28. My dad's service was a celebration of his life. He was a good man, though not really a nice man. My family was stunned by the 400+ people who showed up for his service, including people he'd worked with in Scouts 30 years earlier. It was truly amazing to visualize how many lives my dad had touched in his grumpy 72 years. I knew that even though my dad was gone, a little bit of him lived on in these people. This mostly-secular service was planned by my mom, who is a devout Christian, and despite the fact that my dad was also a devout Christian and an active member in their church. My family wanted a celebration of Dad's life, and that's what we got.

Two months later, my father-in-law died, also from cancer. His service was much smaller, although my father-in-law was just as good a man, but actually nice. His service was 45 minutes long, just like my dad's, but the pastor only talked about how if we accepted Christ into our lives, we'd get to see Ted again. He didn't talk about Ted's accomplishments or his skills or anything like that, just that Jesus would be our path to seeing Ted again. Instead of the celebration Ted deserved (even more so than my dad), we all got a sermon on how to visit Ghost Ted in the afterlife, if only we'd accept Christ's love. It was disappointing and did nothing to comfort those of us who weren't already Christian.

A funeral isn't the time to proselytize, it's the time to comfort.

/last year was really awful, as you can imagine.
 
2011-09-14 12:52:26 PM  
Bevets is the most consistently successful troll here.

Bookman doesn't hold a candle to him
 
2011-09-14 12:52:37 PM  

Hyperbolic Hyperbole: It's funny how you never see atheists get retarded over Buddhists and their stupid misguided imaginary religion.

90% of Atheists = angry ex-Christians.


Well, first of all, Buddhism is an atheistic religion anyway.

Second of all, if you are talking about the West, which is most of the postings on Fark, of course most of the people who no longer believe in God are coming out of the religion that 90% of those people are raised as.

Third, ex-Christians have every right to be angry after arriving at an understanding that they've been raised in an utter lie while still having to watch so many of those same lies get used to justify infringements on their lives and freedoms. So fark you, if you're not angry about something like that, you might well be part of the problem.
 
2011-09-14 12:52:38 PM  
I'd rather worship Inanna and hang out with her devotee-slash-prostitutes.

And, hey, maybe we're all wrong. Maybe some of the older religions had it right, and you have to die in battle in order to get into heaven. The rest of us just wander around aimlessly for all eternity. Oh, well.
 
2011-09-14 12:52:43 PM  

s2s2s2: If religion is an invention, it was invented by Atheists. Thanks a lot!


Sorry :(
 
2011-09-14 12:52:47 PM  
Subby attempts to write a pithy and humorous headline for this article, manages to prove he should keep his day job.
 
2011-09-14 12:52:57 PM  

daxxenos:
You're quite right. Let's junk all this religious dogma that keeps interfering with what we want to do. I personally feel we should get rid of all these religious laws that slop over from this whole God thing. I mean, really, "Thou shalt not kill?" That's the first one I'd get rid of. Democrats should be used as targets. Along with their wives, children and pets. Morality is a phoney, religious construct. I should be able to rape, torture and steal to my own satisfaction. Atheists would be the first to agree. Right?


As an atheist, I have a few reason for being moral. But they all really come back to the Golden Rule. You remember that one, right? "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Because I am not special. And I don't want to be killed. I don't want to be raped. Or tortured. Or have my things stolen. So I assume others are the same, and cannot justify doing it to them. They are my equals and I will treat them as such.

So when I'm told that there is no atheist morality by a person who believes that they are one of their god's chosen people, I can't help but conclude that their moral code is based on something different than mine. For the simple reason that they believe they are special.

So I do understand why they might have trouble understanding the basis for mine. But it would be nice if they tried.
 
2011-09-14 12:52:59 PM  
Where's a bowl of popcorn when you need it??
 
2011-09-14 12:53:01 PM  

Elvis Christ: [homebrewedtheology.com image 455x568]


Apppear?
 
2011-09-14 12:53:08 PM  

misanthropic1: Hyperbolic Hyperbole: It's funny how you never see atheists get retarded over Buddhists and their stupid misguided imaginary religion.

90% of Atheists = angry ex-Christians.

I'm sure it's in no way owing to the predominant religion of the culture in which you live .

/get a new troll or sense of perspective; either way


I'll do you one better: Buddhism is not a religion in the sense that most people in Western cultures define a religion. Buddhists follow the teachings of Buddha, who himself was just a human, albeit an enlightened human. That is just but one major difference...
 
2011-09-14 12:53:18 PM  
Okay, athiests. Listen up. Earlier today I saw a post on Reddit that had a link to real naked pictures of Scarlette Johansen (sp?). I looked at them and they were clear pictures of her boobs and butt.

My question to you is this: Still think there's no God?
or, alternatively, Where is your no God now?

Boom! God proven!

Bevets, you're welcome.
 
2011-09-14 12:53:23 PM  
Atheist here.

Most of my friends are religious. I love them to death and think they're great people. We even talk about religion sometimes (though I try to avoid it where possible with people I don't know).

I personally don't care what you believe as long as it isn't hurting other people, and you don't insist on shoving it down my throat when I've politely asked you to stop.

I celebrate Easter and Thanksgiving with family, and don't sit in the corner sulking about it.

I know many atheists. Very few of them are angry, or any of the other stereotypes. Like many religious people I've met, most of us just don't care about religion enough to spend a lot of time worrying about it.

If everyone stopped attacking each other for absolutely no good reason, the world would be a much better place.
 
2011-09-14 12:53:46 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Oh good god. Not this thread again.

Don't preach or legislate your beliefs to me, and I will return the favor.


You just don't understand. By not allowing them to legislate their beliefs into laws that everybody else has to follow, you're forcing them to become atheists!
 
2011-09-14 12:53:51 PM  

Bevets: Kome:

Read his posts. He equates science with atheism, so to him he isn't stepping outside of his usual haunts by coming to these threads.

I would think you would have a better handle on my arguments by now.


You don't have any arguments. You have other people's arguments. And you don't even understand those.
 
2011-09-14 12:54:01 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: I'll admit that there's some truth to this. Coming out as an atheist can be a hard thing in a culture that puts a premium on religious beliefs, and I've spoken to more than a few atheists who have been effectively disowned because of it.

When that happens, a certain amount of anger is natural and normal, and it makes sense that it'd be focused on the religion that the person is leaving behind, and you're correct that this does make up a certain fraction of atheist rhetoric and that's it's a fairly vocal segment.

However, I hate the implication that the only good atheist is a quiet atheist. In almost any other area of thought, it's considered perfectly normal to advocate for positions that you believe to be true. We don't, in general, just bash people for espousing political, philosophical, or religious beliefs (although we might bash the specific beliefs and arguments made for them), but there's this weird consensus that atheism is an exception and that it's gauche to make any arguments at all in favor of it when even the sloppiest religious apologist gets a free pass to espouse theism at the expense of atheism.

On principle, I don't like closets, and I think that this attitude is geared towards trying to keep atheists in the closet. Having come from an era where being an open atheist could cost you your job, your family connections, and make you a social pariah, I think that I owe a debt of thanks to people like Dawkins and Hitchens for getting atheism out in the public sphere and for making it easier for people to openly declare their atheism.

Yes, their rhetoric was often obnoxious, but when the polite thing is to be silent and invisible, it may well be the case that you need a bit of confrontationism to break through the social status quo.

To borrow an example from the gay rights movement, chanting "We're here, we're queer, get used to it!" wasn't a very nice thing to say. But it was effective.


You sound uppity.

+1
 
2011-09-14 12:54:27 PM  

Bevets: Kome:

Read his posts. He equates science with atheism, so to him he isn't stepping outside of his usual haunts by coming to these threads.

I would think you would have a better handle on my arguments by now.


I have observed no occasion upon which you have presented any actual argument.
 
2011-09-14 12:54:55 PM  
Wow, Fark is really on a big anti-atheist campaign lately. Is Bevets giving the mods head or something?
 
2011-09-14 12:55:16 PM  

FitzShivering: If everyone stopped attacking each other for absolutely no good reason, the world would be a much better place.


You're asking kind of a lot there. What the fark would we do with all those guns, just to start? Jeez.
 
2011-09-14 12:55:28 PM  

Selfabortion:
Third, ex-Christians have every right to be angry after arriving at an understanding that they've been raised in an utter lie while still having to watch so many of those same lies get used to justify infringements on their lives and freedoms. So fark you, if you're not angry about something like that, you might well be part of the problem.


People who call them selves Christians should be angry about the injustices done in their deities name, along with what you mentioned.

insert Gandhi quote about Christians here.
 
2011-09-14 12:55:55 PM  

A challenger appears: The only "problem" I have with Atheists is they spend too much time critizing Christianity and ignore Islam. I understand why though, if you talk crap about Islam they'll blow you up, if you talk crap about Christianity they'll usually just pray for you or leer at your unapprovingly.


Just wait a couple Centuries. I'm sure it will change.

You wouldn't see to many Atheists talking smack about Christianity in the 13th century.

Love thy neighbor and all that. Haha.
 
2011-09-14 12:56:11 PM  
sigh


A very long time ago, when people had no clue how the fark anything worked, they all sat around making up reasons and hoping there was something out there watching over them, providing for them, and protecting them.

They continued to believe this despite all of the evidence to the contrary. Well sure that flood killed almost the entire village, but I was spared. The gods protected me!

Then religion became organized and powerful. So powerful that when science started to show us what was really going on, religion fought it to the point of murdering the people who were making important discoveries. Burning them and their books. Or in more civilized areas just making them outcasts or jailing them.

Today, thousands and thousands of years later, when most people are no longer afraid of the dark, these religions are still trying to hold us back.

What makes them still relevant? Well, for starters, it's about the only acceptable way to legally discriminate against entire groups of people. You can hate gays, heathens, and folks of other religions (Or no religion) because you LOVE god and you're only doing what your book and your leaders tell you to do.

It started out providing comfort, then became about wealth and power, and now it clings to life by shear hatred of anyone who is different...
 
2011-09-14 12:56:12 PM  

s2s2s2: Gurrker: Faith in mankind is the bane of mankind.


I would have faith in mankind if there were no religion.
 
2011-09-14 12:56:44 PM  

Bevets: SQUAWK


And now that our irrelevant parroting, quote-mining, and blatant appeals to authority out of the way, I'd like to know which 9 subby thinks author of TFA is guilty of. I think that'd be more telling of subby than the author, mind.
 
2011-09-14 12:56:51 PM  

ajt167: Okay, athiests. Listen up. Earlier today I saw a post on Reddit that had a link to real naked pictures of Scarlette Johansen (sp?). I looked at them and they were clear pictures of her boobs and butt.

My question to you is this: Still think there's no God?
or, alternatively, Where is your no God now?

Boom! God proven!

Bevets, you're welcome.


they could argue she's proof that natural selection and evolution will eventually acheieve perfection
 
2011-09-14 12:57:11 PM  

wumpus: Atheist is not my word. I don't need a word for something that isn't. I don't need a word because I'm not into basketball or knitting. As far as I'm concerned, you have a hobby that I'm not keen on. Some people don't like dogs, we need a name for those sons of biatches.


I think that atheism is analogous to the word "hole". A hole isn't a something, it's an absence of the thing surrounding it and it only exists in that context.

A hole in a board is prominent because of the wood around it. Remove the wood and the hole disappears.

As long as theism is the majority state, and as long as theists use theism to do important things like craft laws, I think that it's reasonable to have a word to describe its absence.

And, maybe one day, just like a hole without anything around it, the term will be made obsolete by becoming ubiquitous.
 
2011-09-14 12:57:12 PM  

kgf: Shazam999: What's the one where you don't care if He's real or not?

That's the one I tend to be.

Atheists are douches.

If you don't care and you don't believe, you're already an atheist, so you just called yourself a douche.

If you don't care and you do believe, you're an idiot because you don't realize the absurdity of your own viewpoint.

So which is it - douche or idiot? I'm guessing you're an idiot.


He's an idiot because you're too small minded to grasp what he meant?
 
2011-09-14 12:57:43 PM  

Hyperbolic Hyperbole: It's funny how you never see atheists get retarded over Buddhists and their stupid misguided imaginary religion.

90% of Atheists = angry ex-Christians.


you sound sad so ill play, do Buddhists make you retarded? They seem to have found a balance with what they believe and what others don't, some religions seem more upset with people who wont pick a team at all than those who pick someone elses team. I would like to think that religions are based in a root of good but most are just used to control masses for their own benefit.

I just tend to believe I have to take credit for things that go right and wrong in my life, I believe I can live a good life without the fear of a boogyman or reward in the end of it

I believe that if there was a god, saying someone wont be allowed into heaven even though they lived a life according to the rules set out but did so on their own accord, without knowing or believing in a god is acceptable...

but sending a child molester or murder to hell who repented and devoted his last bit of life to god is not okay..

This would mean that if there was a god, then gods kind of an attention whore to say the least...
 
2011-09-14 12:57:51 PM  
Using a number less than 9 would have been a more successful troll.
 
2011-09-14 12:57:54 PM  

StaleCoffee: Sorry :(


I forgive you, but not because of religion. I have evolved to know getting along is better.
 
2011-09-14 12:58:08 PM  

A challenger appears: The only "problem" I have with Atheists is they spend too much time critizing Christianity and ignore Islam. I understand why though, if you talk crap about Islam they'll blow you up, if you talk crap about Christianity they'll usually just pray for you or leer at your unapprovingly.


Yeah, why attack only christianity?
 
2011-09-14 12:58:11 PM  

Surool: Wow, Fark is really on a big anti-atheist campaign lately. Is Bevets giving the mods head or something?


he's really the glowing chicken on top of the fark server
 
2011-09-14 12:58:23 PM  

ajt167: My question to you is this: Still think there's no God?
or, alternatively, Where is your no God now?


That was just no-Satan trying to trick us.
 
2011-09-14 12:59:03 PM  

wildstarr: I would have faith in mankind if there were no religion.


Which was invented by mankind, sooooo.....awkward!
 
2011-09-14 12:59:23 PM  

IrateShadow: I'd like to rebut point 7. Most peoples' lives are bleak and lack meaning. They just refuse to acknowledge it.


It may lack meaning, but it's hardly bleak.
 
2011-09-14 12:59:55 PM  

Hyperbolic Hyperbole: It's funny how you never see atheists get retarded over Buddhists and their stupid misguided imaginary religion.

90% of Atheists = angry ex-Christians.


When I have Buddhists knocking on my door at 7AM every Saturday and Sunday to hand me pamphlets, Buddhists on the street corner with megaphones telling me how evil I am, and Buddhists in the schoolboard trying to get "intelligent reincarnation" into the classroom, I'll treat Buddhists with the same rancor I treat hardcore Christians.
 
2011-09-14 01:00:20 PM  

popesballs: 1.) There are no theists at funerals

/think about it
//it's just as true and false as it's corollary: no atheists in foxholes


That is a terrible analogy and it doesn't even make sense.

I get what the original comes from. That's easy. Yours? Not so much.
 
2011-09-14 01:01:03 PM  

StaleCoffee: FitzShivering: If everyone stopped attacking each other for absolutely no good reason, the world would be a much better place.

You're asking kind of a lot there. What the fark would we do with all those guns, just to start? Jeez.


I would paint them blue, then build a gigantic Tardis made of guns.

But I'm a giant nerd or something, which is far, far worse than being an atheist.
 
2011-09-14 01:01:14 PM  
Not going to read everything in the thread, but it seems the author is just giving his opinion which doesn't exactly debunk someone elses opinion.
 
2011-09-14 01:01:30 PM  

drmda: A challenger appears: The only "problem" I have with Atheists is they spend too much time critizing Christianity and ignore Islam. I understand why though, if you talk crap about Islam they'll blow you up, if you talk crap about Christianity they'll usually just pray for you or leer at your unapprovingly.

Yeah, why attack only christianity?


Christians have a persecution bias.

1. Atheists don't attack Christianity. Christians simply get offended by facts and logic because they have nothing to base their religion on other than faith, so they take it as "attacking."

2. Christians make up the largest percentage of religious people in the US, they attempt to force religious based legislation, and are the most vocal. If atheists did attack a religion, it would make sense to be the one with the most power/sway that is literally attempting to turn the nation into a Christian one.
 
2011-09-14 01:02:02 PM  

loonatic112358: ajt167: Okay, athiests. Listen up. Earlier today I saw a post on Reddit that had a link to real naked pictures of Scarlette Johansen (sp?). I looked at them and they were clear pictures of her boobs and butt.

My question to you is this: Still think there's no God?
or, alternatively, Where is your no God now?

Boom! God proven!

Bevets, you're welcome.

they could argue she's proof that natural selection and evolution will eventually acheieve perfection


Actually, there's a theory that the reason why multi-ethnic people are so attractive is that they have such diverse genes. It's natural selection's way of making us want to screw someone with diverse genes and make babies.
 
2011-09-14 01:02:46 PM  

JPJ007: A challenger appears: The only "problem" I have with Atheists is they spend too much time critizing Christianity and ignore Islam. I understand why though, if you talk crap about Islam they'll blow you up, if you talk crap about Christianity they'll usually just pray for you or leer at your unapprovingly.

That's mostly because, in the US at least, it's not the Muslims trying to legislate their morality or cripple science education.



So, as more muslims immigrate to the U.S. we can expect that atheists will spend less time criticizing christians and more time on muslims.
That's a win for our side boys!
 
2011-09-14 01:02:47 PM  

A challenger appears: The only "problem" I have with Atheists is they spend too much time critizing Christianity and ignore Islam. I understand why though, if you talk crap about Islam they'll blow you up, if you talk crap about Christianity they'll usually just pray for you or leer at your unapprovingly.


Would like a word.
2.bp.blogspot.com

Sounds like you do not read much.
 
2011-09-14 01:03:15 PM  

James F. Campbell: I'd rather worship Inanna and hang out with her devotee-slash-prostitutes.

And, hey, maybe we're all wrong. Maybe some of the older religions had it right, and you have to die in battle in order to get into heaven. The rest of us just wander around aimlessly for all eternity. Oh, well.


Innana? We named the God Innana!
 
2011-09-14 01:03:57 PM  

drmda: A challenger appears: The only "problem" I have with Atheists is they spend too much time critizing Christianity and ignore Islam. I understand why though, if you talk crap about Islam they'll blow you up, if you talk crap about Christianity they'll usually just pray for you or leer at your unapprovingly.

Yeah, why attack only christianity?


This is a myth.

Do not associate the idiot left-leaning sycophants you see on television with all atheists, just as you shouldn't associate the Fox News broadcasters with all Christians.
 
2011-09-14 01:04:42 PM  

drmda: A challenger appears: The only "problem" I have with Atheists is they spend too much time critizing Christianity and ignore Islam. I understand why though, if you talk crap about Islam they'll blow you up, if you talk crap about Christianity they'll usually just pray for you or leer at your unapprovingly.

Yeah, why attack only christianity?



1) Go into an actual atheists forum and see how wrong that is.

2) Christianity is what we have to deal with the MOST in this country. Islam is not trying to keep gays from marrying in America.

3) It's not so much as an "attack" as it is a "defense". Quit telling us god doesn't like gays and that the Founding Fathers were Christians.

I hope that clears a few things up...
 
2011-09-14 01:04:53 PM  
My two cents...

1) There are no atheists in foxholes.

There should only be foxes in foxholes. What do this phrase mean? That atheists don't want to be in situations where death is imminent? Well, who does???

2) Atheists are just angry with God.

If you believe in a god, you have the option of being angry with that god. Atheists are more apt to be angry with religious organizations and religious members.

3) Atheists are aggressive and rude.

Humans are aggressive and rude.

4) Atheism is a white dude thing.

Where are you getting that? From your ass? Now if you said "Atheism is an intellectual thing", I might agree that the stereotype exists, and I would agree with it. The race thing? Seriously, where are you getting that?

5) Atheism is just a faith like any other.

It's only when you have faith that you start interpreting things as faith-based beliefs. I don't even know why I'm expending energy on this point.

6) Atheists don't have a moral code.

Some humans have a better moral compass than others, belief systems aside. I would be upset if I passed up an opportunity to help out a suffering person or animal. Not everyone has that compass. Then again, I don't think I would stop a suicidal person from committing suicide.

7) Atheist lives are bleak and lack meaning.

I can see how a Christian might see this myth as rational. Yeah, it's amusing that a Christian can rationalize at all, but I digress. I would say that myth is right on par with "Theists are gullible". Fair?

8) Atheists are hedonists who don't understand the true meaning of love.

I would just say that atheists aren't as susceptible to as much hypocritical behavior. As for the true meaning of "love", I'd say that's about as subjective as the meaning of life.

9) Atheists have no way to cope after losing loved ones without the belief in an afterlife.

Huh? How so? I would postulate that atheists, if anything, are more capable of coping. Their life is done. Over. You may miss the person, but it's more akin to breaking up with a lover. You get over it. You don't need a god or lucky rabbits foot to pull you through.

10) Atheists are out to destroy Christmas.

Wasn't it theists that destroyed winter solstice first? Get your own holiday!
 
2011-09-14 01:05:22 PM  

Spanky_McFarksalot: Not going to read everything in the thread, but it seems the author is just giving his opinion which doesn't exactly debunk someone elses opinion.


You noticed those yellowy-orange bits of text in the missive? Those were links... to citations.

I wouldn't exactly call it a professional academic paper (and it wasn't written as one, I don't think- come to think of it, find me any arguments to the contrary written in an academic paper format), but it's a little bit above a stream of consciousness rant on the other hand.
 
2011-09-14 01:05:47 PM  

F42: Bevets: The ancient man approached God (or even the gods)

Bevets is just angry at Thor.

It's not that he doesn't believe that Thor causes the thunder, it's that he's angry at him, so he pretends that he doesn't believe in Him.


See, this is why I have chosen to go with polytheism. There are plenty of gods out there, and you never quite know when one might be useful. So it's nice to pick and choose the ones you want at any given time. Or make up new ones on the spot if needs be.
 
2011-09-14 01:05:47 PM  
You know what is wild about morals? People somehow figured out before this Jesus guy came along that it wasn't a very good idea to kill people or steal. How did they ever figure that out without a bible?
 
2011-09-14 01:05:56 PM  

Grenwulf: Some 'Splainin' To Do 2011-09-14 11:09:58 AM

Rev. Skarekroe: 1) There are no atheists in foxholes.

That's not a myth, it's just an old saying intended to point out the horrors of war.

I don't much care about this saying, one way or the other, but I've talked to atheist veterans who absolutely farking hate it when people say that.

Count me in that group.
Hardest thing ever was to convince S1 to actually put "Atheist" on my dog tags instead of "No Religious Preference"


I've got numerous friends in the military who've told me similar things. Apparently, the Air Force is the worst about this. From what I've heard, there's a huge amount of straight up evangelism going on in it with a lot of the superiors actively encouraging it.
 
2011-09-14 01:06:40 PM  
I'm an agnostic. That's the only logically tenable position.

/Militant agnostic - I don't know and you don't either.
 
2011-09-14 01:06:47 PM  

Dimensio: The ancient man approached God (or even the gods) as the accused person approaches his judge. For the modem man the roles are reversed. He is the judge: God is in the dock. He is quite a kindly judge: if God should have a reasonable defense for being the god who permits war, poverty, and disease, he is ready to listen to it. The trial may even end in God's acquittal. But the important thing is that man is on the bench and God in the dock. ~ C.S. Lewis


Am I reading this incorrectly or is this an argument for atheism? I judge God to be lacking and I may ultimately decide to acquit. Until then, he can sit in oblivion with all the other failed deities.
 
2011-09-14 01:06:48 PM  

pwhp_67: drmda: A challenger appears: The only "problem" I have with Atheists is they spend too much time critizing Christianity and ignore Islam. I understand why though, if you talk crap about Islam they'll blow you up, if you talk crap about Christianity they'll usually just pray for you or leer at your unapprovingly.

Yeah, why attack only christianity?


1) Go into an actual atheists forum and see how wrong that is.

2) Christianity is what we have to deal with the MOST in this country. Islam is not trying to keep gays from marrying in America.

3) It's not so much as an "attack" as it is a "defense". Quit telling us god doesn't like gays and that the Founding Fathers were Christians.

I hope that clears a few things up...


It should, but if he even had to ask, it won't.
 
2011-09-14 01:07:28 PM  

loonatic112358: Selfabortion


loonatic112358: Selfabortion:
Third, ex-Christians have every right to be angry after arriving at an understanding that they've been raised in an utter lie while still having to watch so many of those same lies get used to justify infringements on their lives and freedoms. So fark you, if you're not angry about something like that, you might well be part of the problem.

People who call them selves Christians should be angry about the injustices done in their deities name, along with what you mentioned.

insert Gandhi quote about Christians here.


Why? The book they believe to be the Word of God generally justifies, explicitly, the injustices in question. Should it be a surprise then that it leads to people advocating atrocities in their deity's name?
 
2011-09-14 01:08:00 PM  

FitzShivering: just as you shouldn't associate the Fox News broadcasters with all Christians



I'm not sure about that one. Have you seen their ratings?
 
2011-09-14 01:08:19 PM  

popesballs: 1.) There are no theists at funerals

/think about it
//it's just as true and false as it's corollary: no atheists in foxholes


That makes no sense. First of all, have you *been* to a religious funeral? They acknowledge the person is elsewhere ("a better place") but mourn because they will be apart from them.

I mean aren't there sad people at airports? You are sad when someone you love departs, no? It doesn't matter if they're in the afterlife or worm food.
 
2011-09-14 01:08:20 PM  
Every time I have finished reading a page in this thread, two new pages have already been posted.
At this rate I'll have finished reading it by, well, never!
 
2011-09-14 01:09:58 PM  

A challenger appears: The only "problem" I have with Atheists is they spend too much time critizing Christianity and ignore Islam. I understand why though, if you talk crap about Islam they'll blow you up, if you talk crap about Christianity they'll usually just pray for you or leer at your unapprovingly.


I put God, Jesus, Thor, Xenu, Allah, Midichlorians, Yaweh, The Great Raven, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and Pax Cruciforms in the same bag as Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.* Hell, I made up a religion for an online game and that god's been more helpful than the rest of the pantheon put together.

And in the 16 years I've known him, my muslim friend has said two things to me about religion:
1. "I hope you find the truth before you die." (He said this once.)
2. "You're now a vegetarian? That's great, no pork, no alcohol, you're almost a muslim!"

*Notwithstanding the fact that in my house, I am in fact both of these last two. And yes, I have little wings I put on. What? I like the little wings.
 
2011-09-14 01:10:15 PM  

roncofooddehydrator: I'm an agnostic. That's the only logically tenable position.

/Militant agnostic - I don't know and you don't either.


Which also means you're an atheist. A-theist- that which is not a theist.

//Internet Agnostics are far more annoying that Internet Atheists.
 
2011-09-14 01:10:20 PM  

drmda: JPJ007: A challenger appears: The only "problem" I have with Atheists is they spend too much time critizing Christianity and ignore Islam. I understand why though, if you talk crap about Islam they'll blow you up, if you talk crap about Christianity they'll usually just pray for you or leer at your unapprovingly.

That's mostly because, in the US at least, it's not the Muslims trying to legislate their morality or cripple science education.


So, as more muslims immigrate to the U.S. we can expect that atheists will spend less time criticizing christians and more time on muslims.
That's a win for our side boys!


You know, I see this "why don't atheists attack Islam" challenge coming up a lot and it really doesn't make much sense to me.

Dawkins and Hitchens have both attacked Islam openly and aggressively and even kindly ol' Doc Dennett has publicly stated that he thinks that Islam is greater threat to the world than Christianity.

The notion that atheists give Islam a free pass is very much a strawman.
 
2011-09-14 01:10:26 PM  

misanthropic1: I'm sure it's in no way owing to the predominant religion of the culture in which you live .


It's fair to say that in America, this is the case. However, branch it out to a worldwide basis, and the fact is 90% of atheism = angry ex-(local religion), and these people account for 100% of vocal atheists, because the ones never raised with it and aren't so angry DON'T spend all their time talking about why religion is bullshiat.

meat0918: Are Buddhists in America trying to violate the secular nature of our government?


No, but atheism (and especially internet atheism) would have you believe it's not about live and let live, because they see religious folk as intellectually inferior, and specifically that their religiosity is what keeps them intellectually inferior. And typically, Christians are only religion you ever really see being treated this way (maybe you're all just scared of Muslims?).

To everyone else, nice try. Also, "of course we're angry, we've been lied to" guy - "we've been lied to" implies that you have discovered the absolute truth, which is equally pompous a remark.
 
2011-09-14 01:11:55 PM  
There's nothing I enjoy more than going around neighborhoods, knocking on doors, house to house, and telling everyone about the joys of not collecting stamps.

/i have some not-literature on the not-a-subject, if you're interested
 
2011-09-14 01:12:17 PM  
I don't see how anyone who has studied Life can be an atheist, someone who does not believe in God. Look around you - pretty obvious there's intelligence behind the design.

What I could believe is someone not believing that God is perfect, or all-good. This is called "dystheism." You don't hear too much about that, but that seems much more reasonable than atheism.

Is it intellectually dishonest to say you don't believe in God, when in fact you just can't bring yourself to believe that God would let all that is bad occur?

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2011-09-14 01:12:33 PM  
An atheist's voice does not echo, and nobody knows why.
 
2011-09-14 01:13:20 PM  

SkunkWerks: You noticed those yellowy-orange bits of text in the missive? Those were links... to citations.


well, I'm sure you noticed that those yellowy-orange things are in only 2 of his 10 points.

The rest is opinion. Opinions aren't debunking.

And I'm not argueing whether he is right or wrong, I'm argueing that giving your opinion doesn't mean you've debunked someone elses opinion, regardless of the subject.
 
2011-09-14 01:13:22 PM  

loonatic112358: ajt167: Okay, athiests. Listen up. Earlier today I saw a post on Reddit that had a link to real naked pictures of Scarlette Johansen (sp?). I looked at them and they were clear pictures of her boobs and butt.

My question to you is this: Still think there's no God?
or, alternatively, Where is your no God now?

Boom! God proven!

Bevets, you're welcome.

they could argue she's proof that natural selection and evolution will eventually acheieve perfection


But that fact that these pitchers exist and are easily accessible by us is the proof of God.
 
2011-09-14 01:13:29 PM  
Come on, people. We're ALL atheists.

It's just that I believe in one less god than you do.
 
2011-09-14 01:13:48 PM  

Hyperbolic Hyperbole: "we've been lied to" implies that you have discovered the absolute truth



The Catholic Church says homosexuality is wrong.

Homosexuality has been observed as naturally occurring in nature.


Therefore, stating as fact that homosexuality is a sin and an offense to some god who allegedly created nature, is a lie.


How many of these do we have to sort through before you retract your ignorant remark?
 
2011-09-14 01:15:18 PM  

Kome: Steelers fans without problems...


Everyone knows this one doesn't exist.

Because they've still got the problem of being Steelers fans.
 
2011-09-14 01:15:27 PM  

give me doughnuts: wiregeek: Sticky Hands: Atheists are like onions.

delicious when diced in my mashed potatoes?

What kind of Philistine puts onions in mashed potatos?


That's what I said - turns out it's yummy!
 
2011-09-14 01:15:28 PM  
1) There are no atheists in foxholes.

More atheists are made in foxholes than believers are made in churches.

2) Atheists are just angry with God.

No, we also think he's hilarious, the doddering old fool. But I do hope bot flies lay their eggs in the soles of his feet and their larvae crawl out of his scalp. Just for yuks. Or to venge Darwin's little daughter.

3) Atheists are aggressive and rude.

Usually right after some obstreperous believer tells them they are 1) tools of the Devil; 2) damned to eternal perdition; 3) without morals or love or brains or 4) or worse. True Believers are never rude or aggressive. You just can't tell them to fark off. They won't. They'll renew their aggressions with renewed vigour and rudeness.

4) Atheism is a white dude thing.

Explain Atheistical Red China.

5) Atheism is just a faith like any other.

For the purpose of argument, imagine that there is a total of 10,000 religious positions and that atheism is one of them. The set is complete. One of the 10,000 religions has to be right.

Every time you prove a religion false it's chance of being right is redistributed to the other religions.

Right? Wrong. Every time a religion is proven false, atheism gets the whole pot. Because the fact that people will irrationally follow a set of beliefs without examining or attempting to prove their foundations is entirely a point in favour of atheism.

Atheism is not a belief system like the religious belief systems. If a religion HAD to be true, out of the 10,000 religious positions I am positing, and atheism HAD to be false, the elimination of one religion would mean each surviving religion gained a little bit of credibility until one religion eventually got it all. But as long as atheism is in play, the failure of any religion is a failure of them all.

And mankind has worshipped a heck of a lot more than 10,000 false gods and goddesses in its day. The Hindus alone have well over 100,000,000 gods, the Chinese perhaps 144,000, the Ancients over 12,000. Christianity alone has almost 9,000-10,000 sects and denominations, plus a few that many Christians don't even acknowledge as Christian.

Every one of these gods is a ticket in a lottery, and every combination of these gods is another possible religion. God A, God B, God C, and so forth can be permuted and combined in a seemingly infinite number of ways.

All these religions are in a lottery to be The One True Faith and logically there is an enormous number of false OTFs, each of them proving how foolish and perverse it is to believe any of this rubbish.

In short, Atheism is like not buying lottery tickets. It is not a ticket like the others.

6) Atheists don't have a moral code.

So the Serpent was wasting his time when he sold Eve on the Fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil? So God did NOT give humans an inate sense of right and wrong and a preference for making other people do the right thing and even, in most cases, for doing the right thing? So everybody is a sociopath but me and thee and I have to wonder about thee? You contradict your own religion when you claim atheists have no moral code. Everybody, even nihilists, luciferians and amoralists, has a code of conduct. They will avoid doing certain things out of sheer pride, if nothing else. The vices are often just as good at enforcing correct conduct as the virtures, after all.


7) Atheist lives are bleak and lack meaning.

No, the universe is bleak and lacks meaning. Humans MAKE meaning. They can't help it.

8) Atheists are hedonists who don't understand the true meaning of love.

What the Hell are they doing in foxholes then?

9) Atheists have no way to cope after losing loved ones without the belief in an afterlife.

They're dead, Dave. They're dead, Dave. They're all Dead, Dave.

Atheists cope with the inevitability of Death the same way that believers do. The seven or five or whatever number of stages of grief, I believe, apply to everything. Denial. Anger. Self-Pity. Bargaining. Acceptance.

It's got nothing to do with God. It is innate. Even chimpanzees in the trees do it. They may only mourn their dead babies for a few days at most, and some of them may eat them in their psychosis, but their reactions to death are very close to human. Too close to human for comfort. I wish WE would, as humans, stop eating THEM. But you can't really blame the poor for eating what they can get, as long as it's not each other.

One good way of coping with death is to cite comforting Scriptures:

You and me baby
Ain't nothing but mammals
Let's do it like they do
And the Discovery Channel.

Or you could turn to the beautiful arts of lying and self-delusion:

18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. 19For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. 20All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. 21Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? 22Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his own works; for that is his portion: for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him?
Ecclesiastes 3: 18-22

There are few problems in life that sex, love, hope, self-delusion, a sense of humour and death will not solve.

10) Atheists are out to destroy Christmas.

Dammit. Most atheists celebrate the secular feast of Christmas just like everybody else. It's the spoilsports and busy-bodies and judgmental, mean-spirited Christians who are out to destroy Christmas.

They use it as a club against non-Christians and everybody else.

They play dog-in-the-manger, neither enjoying nor allowing anybody else to enjoy.

If you celebrate Christmas, they whine about commercialization, and feasting, and innocent fun.
If you don't they whine about that.

Send a card with an innocent non-religious greeting--such as graced the first Christmas cards and such as people were sending centuries ago--in their ignorance, folly and malice, they whine.

Send a pious --and hypocritical-- card and they'd whine about that.

But that doesn't mean they'll be any less hypocritical themselves with their peace on Earth and good will towards all men.

They don't love peace on Earth and they don't feel good will towards all men, so their Christmas spirit is a lie and a deceit of the Devil.

Religionists love to claim that the Devil's best trick was to convince people that he doesn't exist.

WRONG. It was to convince some people that he is JAY-SUS, GOD. LORD, PRINCE OF PEACE, etC.

Jebus take you and your Christmas.

Atheists out to destroy Christmas? I wish. Even the Puritans didn't manage to do that. We're still stuck with damn mince pies, damn yule logs, damn holly, damn fir trees and all the other trappings of paganism that Christians stole from the pagans hundreds, thousands or scores of years ago.

If atheists could destroy Christmas they'd be doing us all a favour. It makes no economic sense to give people presents that they don't really want, or worse yet, gift cards that they will fail to use or lose, thus enriching the crooks who sell them.
 
2011-09-14 01:15:39 PM  
I don't get the fark headline. Was that just a joke or does subby really believe the article failed?

I'm a born atheist (missing the God part of the brain apparently) and I love Christmas and keep it well. I also insist on calling it Christmas. None of this Happy Holidays! crap for me. My annual Christmas CDs are quite in demand. I include many beautiful religious songs, but because so many people are pricks about it, I group them together in the second half for easy omission.

Belief in God is socially acceptable mass hysteria. The whole idea of God is ridiculous. I thought it stupid from the first time I heard about God. An invisible all-poswerful being? Come on. That's the best you can come up with?

While having "In God We Trust" on money is silly, it is part of our culture. I don't get bent out of shape over cultural expressions of faith. Chaplains at public meetings? So what.

It's when religionists try to get their wackier beliefs into law that I must resist. Creationism is the most egregious example of nonsense masquerading as fact that religionists are trying to shove down our throats in public forums. I'll fight that one tooth and nail.
 
2011-09-14 01:16:18 PM  

xl5150: An atheist's voice does not echo, and nobody knows why.


Some say atheists know too facts about ducks, and they're both wrong

I believe in the stig!
 
2011-09-14 01:16:31 PM  
Well, that proves it. Athesists are right and everyone else is wrong. And if you still don't believe this, stay tuned to Fark for more pro-Atheist propaganda.
 
2011-09-14 01:16:50 PM  
Whoops! Once again I proof read after posting.

Er, spot my intentional error.
 
2011-09-14 01:16:59 PM  

JPJ007: A challenger appears: The only "problem" I have with Atheists is they spend too much time critizing Christianity and ignore Islam. I understand why though, if you talk crap about Islam they'll blow you up, if you talk crap about Christianity they'll usually just pray for you or leer at your unapprovingly.

That's mostly because, in the US at least, it's not the Muslims trying to legislate their morality or cripple science education.


Well said....now can we just drop this whole thing and try to get along? Please?
 
2011-09-14 01:17:23 PM  

Erik_Emune: GilRuiz1: PC LOAD LETTER: Religion never changes, regardless of what the facts are.

Is Christianity practiced exactly the same way that it was when it was founded?

No, and that's a good point to bring up. Once Christianity clawed its way to the top in Europe, it somehow managed to always provide the moral and religious backing for whatever political trend was in vogue.

Feudalism? The Bible explains clearly why you must submit to your betters.

Monarchy? Here, let me provide the Biblical backing for the Divine Rights of Kings.

Nationalism? Absolutely. It's God's will that you go fight for your country.

Elections? A good, Christian concept. We are all God's children.

Women's suffrage? Bad idea, the Bible clearly states that women must be submissive to the leader of the household.

Women's suffrage? Great idea, those Bible quotes are taken out of context.

Slavery? Oh yes, clearly backed by the Bible.

Abolition of Slavery? Oh yes, clearly backed by the Bible.

Anti-semitism? Tons of Biblical support for that. Go burn some Jews.

Anti-anti-semitism? A moral obligation for any good Christian.

Basically, whatever the Big Cheese says, some Christians will find a way to back. The idea of Christianity as a rock-solid unwavering foundation for a robust set of morals is utterly contradicted by history.


You left out that tea party favorite, taxes, as in Jesus saying "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's".
 
2011-09-14 01:17:26 PM  
FTFA: As an open reproductive rights supporter, I've certainly faced my share of believers accusing me of being an atheist so I can simply indulge my sexual appetites and avoid some abstract true meaning of love.

What in zombie savior's name does you supporting abortion have to do with your sexual proclivities, you conflating douchbag?
 
2011-09-14 01:17:52 PM  

brantgoose: Whoops! Once again I proof read after posting.

Er, spot my intentional error.


to be honest, I skipped your entire post
 
2011-09-14 01:17:56 PM  

idiocy: Dimensio: The ancient man approached God (or even the gods) as the accused person approaches his judge. For the modem man the roles are reversed. He is the judge: God is in the dock. He is quite a kindly judge: if God should have a reasonable defense for being the god who permits war, poverty, and disease, he is ready to listen to it. The trial may even end in God's acquittal. But the important thing is that man is on the bench and God in the dock. ~ C.S. Lewis

Am I reading this incorrectly or is this an argument for atheism? I judge God to be lacking and I may ultimately decide to acquit. Until then, he can sit in oblivion with all the other failed deities.


Non-existent deities, not failed. Failed implies they actually did something but didn't succeed at it.
 
2011-09-14 01:18:09 PM  

snuff3r: I don't want to hear it. I don't want to be aware of it.


Does that seem reasonable to you? That you be kept unaware of a significant aspect of human culture? Do you think it's fair to place that burden on others, to protect your seemingly fragile psyche from pedestrian, everyday thoughts?
 
2011-09-14 01:18:19 PM  

PsiChi: Look around you - pretty obvious there's intelligence behind the design.


Not it isn't. I'm not even entirely convinced that intelligence belies human behavior. The idea that the world had an intelligent design strikes me as patently absurd.
 
2011-09-14 01:18:41 PM  
The FA does read as if someone pissed in the author's Wheaties

.

pwhp_67: Homosexuality behavior has been observed as naturally occurring in nature.

FTFY, because homosexual contact is natural and has been observed in all the great apes, humans and some other higher mammals. But homosexuality - as in the identity - is human artifice. It's a silly label and nothing more.
 
2011-09-14 01:19:30 PM  
2.bp.blogspot.com

It looks like Foxy Loxy has Willy Woodchuck on his hole.

He seems to be moving at a fair clip. Who can blame him? If I had a woodchuck hanging from my back side I'd be setting new personal records for speed.
 
2011-09-14 01:19:39 PM  

impaler: drmda: Is this sarcasm, or did you just confirm myth 3) Atheists are aggressive and rude.

No, but you have just confirmed the existence of "confirmation bias."



Do you really think that I really think that one bad onion can spoil the whole stew?

/not a derp
/most of the time
 
2011-09-14 01:20:13 PM  
William Shatner has a tribble on his head. Your arguments are most illogical.
 
2011-09-14 01:22:46 PM  
2) Atheists are just angry with God.

If I do actually pass on from this world and meet the All-knowing creator, I will indeed be extremely irate since His "design" included, for no apparent reason, nerves inside human teeth which have caused me extraordinary amounts of pain over the years. Yes, if God does exist, he's either a sadistic bastard or else a complete incompetent. There are only two possibilities there. Three if you include the truth: there was no designer at all.
 
2011-09-14 01:24:20 PM  
I remember a time when I was sitting in my house, minding my own business, and someone pounded on my door. I answered it. There were three mormons standing outside. They wanted to talk to me about Jesus, and they seemed to think that I should invite three men I didn't know into my house to do it. I told them I was an atheist, and that they were barking up the wrong tree. One of them, I can only assume he was the leader, asked me, "Are you an angry atheist?" I replied with "Not yet, I'm not."

I have to say, I don't get the methods they use. If, as they claim, America is a "Christian" country, why are they still knocking on peoples' doors and interrupting perfectly peaceful wake 'n' bakes to spread the good news everybody's already heard? What would make a man or group of men claiming to be Christians to think that it would be acceptable for them to ask to enter a house with a female alone in it? It's not the first time this has happened with missionaries trying to get into my house. Being told to take off doesn't seem to deter them like it should either. I don't go banging on strange doors to tell people I don't know how great my beliefs are. Maybe I should hang up a sign.

Anyway, I happen to know enough of the doctrine of these types to know that they play missionary for their own benefit and not mine or anybody else's. They're working up credit for heaven, and that's all they care about.
 
2011-09-14 01:24:30 PM  

justtray: 1. Atheists don't attack Christianity. Christians simply get offended by facts and logic


Some people get very loose with "facts"
 
2011-09-14 01:24:54 PM  

Hyperbolic Hyperbole: No, but atheism (and especially internet atheism) would have you believe it's not about live and let live, because they see religious folk as intellectually inferior, and specifically that their religiosity is what keeps them intellectually inferior. And typically, Christians are only religion you ever really see being treated this way


No, Christians are the only religion YOU NOTICE being treated that way.

Confirmation bias (new window)
Selective perception (new window)
 
2011-09-14 01:25:24 PM  

roncofooddehydrator: I'm an agnostic. That's the only logically tenable position.

/Militant agnostic - I don't know and you don't either.


I'm glad that it works for you, but I find agnosticism to be as logically unassailable and philosophically interesting as solipsism.

If your standard is to refuse to take a stance unless you ave absolute knowledge, the only things you can believe are statements of mathematical proof (and not even that if you won't accept certain basic axioms as true). Much like Cartesian solipsism, it doesn't really leave any room to believe anything at all... never mind the question of whether or not there's a god.

Yes, you can't go wrong by refusing to take a stance, but I always find it curious that people think that it's a virtue, especially when they don't apply that same principle of logical unassailability to such topics as ghosts, leprechauns, sasquatches, and whether or not the people around them are sentient.
 
2011-09-14 01:25:45 PM  
If asked, I just say that I'm "not religious", or "not superstitious". Calling yourself an atheist these days implies a certain stridency that I don't feel. The conflict between superstition and reason must be won by attrition, not by violent words or actions. Violence will only entrench the superstitious further in their foolishness.
 
2011-09-14 01:26:15 PM  

Hyperbolic Hyperbole: we've been lied to" guy - "we've been lied to" implies that you have discovered the absolute truth, which is equally pompous a remark.


No, it implies you have identified a lie or lies. When you discover someone has lied to you, if you blindly trust everything else they say you're a fool.
 
2011-09-14 01:26:30 PM  

xaveth: Well, that proves it. Athesists are right and everyone else is wrong. And if you still don't believe this, stay tuned to Fark for more pro-Atheist propaganda.


You must be reading a different thread; what I'm seeing is people saying religion shouldn't be mandated in law, and people biatching about atheists being as annoying as Christians. Personally, I think claiming to know if there is or is not a god is total hubris, but drafting legislation one way or the other is demonstrably wrong, hence churchies don't get a free pass. You in some manner of cult, or just a contrarian?
 
2011-09-14 01:26:55 PM  
9) Atheists have no way to cope after losing loved ones without the belief in an afterlife.

Interesting. I discovered that, as an Atheist, when this kind of thing happens, as it did to me, that this is precisely the time when religion is so seductive. It's probably the reason why religion still has the hold it has. Who wouldn't love to believe that the child you just lost is somehow in some wonderful place, filled with joy and love and no pain, etc., etc. It's beautiful and seductive and it's a lie. It's the worst lie you can tell someone. You have no way of knowing what happens after death, you have only a theory, a belief that has no basis in fact.

So, the first thing you, as a religious type, wants to do to someone who has just lost a loved one is to tell them, "it's okay, they're in a better place", well fark you, you lying douche.
 
2011-09-14 01:27:24 PM  

sheilanagig: I remember a time when I was sitting in my house, minding my own business, and someone pounded on my door. I answered it. There were three mormons standing outside. They wanted to talk to me about Jesus, and they seemed to think that I should invite three men I didn't know into my house to do it. I told them I was an atheist, and that they were barking up the wrong tree. One of them, I can only assume he was the leader, asked me, "Are you an angry atheist?" I replied with "Not yet, I'm not."

I have to say, I don't get the methods they use. If, as they claim, America is a "Christian" country, why are they still knocking on peoples' doors and interrupting perfectly peaceful wake 'n' bakes to spread the good news everybody's already heard? What would make a man or group of men claiming to be Christians to think that it would be acceptable for them to ask to enter a house with a female alone in it? It's not the first time this has happened with missionaries trying to get into my house. Being told to take off doesn't seem to deter them like it should either. I don't go banging on strange doors to tell people I don't know how great my beliefs are. Maybe I should hang up a sign.

Anyway, I happen to know enough of the doctrine of these types to know that they play missionary for their own benefit and not mine or anybody else's. They're working up credit for heaven, and that's all they care about.



Damnit. Now I'll never know what Mr Mormon would have said if you replied in the affirmative!

Do you think he had a speech prepared? A special blend of Koolaid?
 
2011-09-14 01:27:48 PM  

justtray: Quit telling us god doesn't like gays and that the Founding Fathers were Christians


So, why did all the atheists go along with all this "deity" language in the founding documents?
 
2011-09-14 01:27:59 PM  
You can't be angry with a being that you don't believe exists.

I dunno, I don't believe that horror movies are documentaries, but I still sometimes yell at the characters for being stupid enough to open that door, etc. It's not that we're incapable of suspension of disbelief, we just find the practice inappropriate in the policy, scientific, and social spheres in this context.

it's somehow ruder for an atheist to say, "I don't believe in God and here's why" than for a believer to intrude in your personal space with pamphlets, attack people when they're feeling low with religious claims, knock on your door to proselytize, or force your children to recite religious language in school.

All those things are rude, dude. The difference is that you'll only really hear about an atheist stranger's lack of faith unsolicited if he is, in fact, an asshole pushing his beliefs on you.

If someone is religious, it takes a big chunk of their life, so even in casual conversation where you're politely making chit-chat with the checkout guy (or whatever) things like church or religious retreats or missionary work are liable to come up, kind of like how you frequently know the sexual orientation of a stranger within half a minute of polite chat because they mention something to do with a wife/boyfriend/girlfriend. But the non-asshole kind of atheist doesn't base his life around it, doesn't go to meetings, and doesn't burn a lot of time just to be an atheist-- it is, after all, something we're not. So a casual conversation with an atheist will consist of the small-talk-worthy shiat in his life: family, sports, work, dating, etc. You aren't even going to notice that they are an atheist unless you get significantly more acquainted and invite them to church or something -- and even then, they might just go. I love church, there's free food.

But anyhow, this results in sort of a selection bias where atheism is concerned. Everybody's run into the kind of Christian (especially) who is a complete dick about their religion, but they've also run into a lot more perfectly normal people who they know attend church, etc. So Christians get rated as a mixed bag. But with atheists, you've run into those asshole "convert everyone" types and noted them, but there is no way to even notice the other 99% of us because not particularly talking about something is a lot less noticeable than talking about something. It's just how human brains work.
 
2011-09-14 01:28:02 PM  

pwhp_67: Therefore, stating as fact that homosexuality is a sin and an offense to some god who allegedly created nature, is a lie.


How many of these do we have to sort through before you retract your ignorant remark?


You know, there are a lot of things about which I disagree with my church. And 99% of it all contradicts The two highest orders of Jesus. But then, I believe that Christianity was largely hijacked centuries ago.

But let's be honest here. I was talking about God, and you are trying to make this conversation about getting buttdicked.
 
2011-09-14 01:28:21 PM  

HeartBurnKid: Bevets: SQUAWK

And now that our irrelevant parroting, quote-mining, and blatant appeals to authority out of the way, I'd like to know which 9 subby thinks author of TFA is guilty of. I think that'd be more telling of subby than the author, mind.


I've often said that the submitters name should be listed so they could be made fun of like in any other forum. It's like Drew purposely protects the trolls, or else he's afraid of people noticing a pattern of favoritism allowing certain people getting their posts arrpoved.
 
2011-09-14 01:28:39 PM  
I see after reading granulorhoek's post that he has the reasoning ability of a young child. Nevermind.

KiltedBastich:

derp

Bevets:

Acting morally and having a philosophical justification for your actions are two separate issues.

Ennuipoet:

If atheist don't have a moral code but only a philosophical justification for not murdering doctors, blowing up abortion clinics, flying planes into buildings and stealing candy from babies, why are the prisons not full of atheists? If we are so amoral where are the atheist crimes of passion? Why are we not killing everyone that offends us?

Bevets:

You missed my point.

deadcrickets:

So you are telling me that since Christians would not otherwise act in a right manner and might murder me if it weren't for their God... that they are psychopaths?

Why would Christians who become atheists act differently than other atheists? Do you have any data to support your views?
 
2011-09-14 01:28:44 PM  

drmda: JPJ007: A challenger appears: The only "problem" I have with Atheists is they spend too much time critizing Christianity and ignore Islam. I understand why though, if you talk crap about Islam they'll blow you up, if you talk crap about Christianity they'll usually just pray for you or leer at your unapprovingly.

That's mostly because, in the US at least, it's not the Muslims trying to legislate their morality or cripple science education.


So, as more muslims immigrate to the U.S. we can expect that atheists will spend less time criticizing christians and more time on muslims.
That's a win for our side boys!


Many of the "new atheists" that people think are "militant" are quite outspoken against Islam. See Sam Harris for example. The common joe-schmoe on the street angry atheist is mostly going to be angry about the religion they had to free themselves from which is most likely going to be Christianity in this country. Go to a country where another religion is prominent and find someone who angrily abandoned it; chances are you'll find the same kind of statistics.
 
2011-09-14 01:28:58 PM  

FitzShivering: drmda: A challenger appears: The only "problem" I have with Atheists is they spend too much time critizing Christianity and ignore Islam. I understand why though, if you talk crap about Islam they'll blow you up, if you talk crap about Christianity they'll usually just pray for you or leer at your unapprovingly.

Yeah, why attack only christianity?

This is a myth.

Do not associate the idiot left-leaning sycophants you see on television with all atheists, just as you shouldn't associate the Fox News broadcasters with all Christians.


Yours is the only response to my comment that has had any merit (so far.) Most of the responders tried to deflect the observation by saying since Christianity is the dominant religion in the West that it wouldn't make sense to criticize Islam instead of address the point. I believe you're right about the tendency to lean left with the vocal Atheists that had me painting with a wider brush than I should have. It's a shame that their embedded political correctness makes them hypocrites of sorts. My post was really to see what sort of responses I would get and I believe I have all the information I need. Thanks.
 
2011-09-14 01:29:23 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: roncofooddehydrator: I'm an agnostic. That's the only logically tenable position.

/Militant agnostic - I don't know and you don't either.

I'm glad that it works for you, but I find agnosticism to be as logically unassailable and philosophically interesting as solipsism.

If your standard is to refuse to take a stance unless you ave absolute knowledge, the only things you can believe are statements of mathematical proof (and not even that if you won't accept certain basic axioms as true). Much like Cartesian solipsism, it doesn't really leave any room to believe anything at all... never mind the question of whether or not there's a god.

Yes, you can't go wrong by refusing to take a stance, but I always find it curious that people think that it's a virtue, especially when they don't apply that same principle of logical unassailability to such topics as ghosts, leprechauns, sasquatches, and whether or not the people around them are sentient.


Heh. My stance about my own atheism is that while I can never prove God doesn't exist (because you can never prove a negative), "God doesn't exist" is the limit to the function of "Does God Exist." The line never quite gets to "no" but it's so close that I'm just going to go ahead and say no anyway. I mean, 0.0000000000000000000000000000000001 isn't 0, but it's close farking enough.

/I should actually graph that. It's easier to visualize than read.
 
2011-09-14 01:29:50 PM  

Gordon Bennett: See, this is why I have chosen to go with polytheism. There are plenty of gods out there, and you never quite know when one might be useful. So it's nice to pick and choose the ones you want at any given time. Or make up new ones on the spot if needs be.


culture.pagannewswirecollective.com

\A must read, people
\\Dammit, Quick!!!!
 
2011-09-14 01:30:10 PM  

PsiChi: I don't see how anyone who has studied Life can be an atheist, someone who does not believe in God. Look around you - pretty obvious there's intelligence behind the design.


I'll only point out that this is an assertion and that I don't agree with the contention.

What I could believe is someone not believing that God is perfect, or all-good. This is called "dystheism." You don't hear too much about that, but that seems much more reasonable than atheism.

Is it intellectually dishonest to say you don't believe in God, when in fact you just can't bring yourself to believe that God would let all that is bad occur?


When I look at the universe and assume, for the sake of argument, that a god created it, I find that the evidence does not point to either a good god or an evil god but, rather, a remote and unconcerned god that doesn't appear to involve itself with its creation.

In other words, I find myself being pointed towards a Deistic god. Since Deism is functionally indistinguishable from atheism, except for an ontological quibble, I don't find much utility in that line of thought.
 
2011-09-14 01:30:37 PM  

Jim_Callahan: You can't be angry with a being that you don't believe exists.

I dunno, I don't believe that horror movies are documentaries, but I still sometimes yell at the characters for being stupid enough to open that door, etc. It's not that we're incapable of suspension of disbelief, we just find the practice inappropriate in the policy, scientific, and social spheres in this context.

it's somehow ruder for an atheist to say, "I don't believe in God and here's why" than for a believer to intrude in your personal space with pamphlets, attack people when they're feeling low with religious claims, knock on your door to proselytize, or force your children to recite religious language in school.

All those things are rude, dude. The difference is that you'll only really hear about an atheist stranger's lack of faith unsolicited if he is, in fact, an asshole pushing his beliefs on you.

If someone is religious, it takes a big chunk of their life, so even in casual conversation where you're politely making chit-chat with the checkout guy (or whatever) things like church or religious retreats or missionary work are liable to come up, kind of like how you frequently know the sexual orientation of a stranger within half a minute of polite chat because they mention something to do with a wife/boyfriend/girlfriend. But the non-asshole kind of atheist doesn't base his life around it, doesn't go to meetings, and doesn't burn a lot of time just to be an atheist-- it is, after all, something we're not. So a casual conversation with an atheist will consist of the small-talk-worthy shiat in his life: family, sports, work, dating, etc. You aren't even going to notice that they are an atheist unless you get significantly more acquainted and invite them to church or something -- and even then, they might just go. I love church, there's free food.

But anyhow, this results in sort of a selection bias where atheism is concerned. Everybody's run into the kind of Christian (especially) who is a complete dick about their religion, but they've also run into a lot more perfectly normal people who they know attend church, etc. So Christians get rated as a mixed bag. But with atheists, you've run into those asshole "convert everyone" types and noted them, but there is no way to even notice the other 99% of us because not particularly talking about something is a lot less noticeable than talking about something. It's just how human brains work.


I think you're right.
 
2011-09-14 01:32:32 PM  

Maus III: Jim_Callahan: You can't be angry with a being that you don't believe exists.

I dunno, I don't believe that horror movies are documentaries, but I still sometimes yell at the characters for being stupid enough to open that door, etc. It's not that we're incapable of suspension of disbelief, we just find the practice inappropriate in the policy, scientific, and social spheres in this context.

it's somehow ruder for an atheist to say, "I don't believe in God and here's why" than for a believer to intrude in your personal space with pamphlets, attack people when they're feeling low with religious claims, knock on your door to proselytize, or force your children to recite religious language in school.

All those things are rude, dude. The difference is that you'll only really hear about an atheist stranger's lack of faith unsolicited if he is, in fact, an asshole pushing his beliefs on you.

If someone is religious, it takes a big chunk of their life, so even in casual conversation where you're politely making chit-chat with the checkout guy (or whatever) things like church or religious retreats or missionary work are liable to come up, kind of like how you frequently know the sexual orientation of a stranger within half a minute of polite chat because they mention something to do with a wife/boyfriend/girlfriend. But the non-asshole kind of atheist doesn't base his life around it, doesn't go to meetings, and doesn't burn a lot of time just to be an atheist-- it is, after all, something we're not. So a casual conversation with an atheist will consist of the small-talk-worthy shiat in his life: family, sports, work, dating, etc. You aren't even going to notice that they are an atheist unless you get significantly more acquainted and invite them to church or something -- and even then, they might just go. I love church, there's free food.

But anyhow, this results in sort of a selection bias where atheism is concerned. Everybody's run into the kind of Christian (especially) who is a complete dick about their religion, but they've also run into a lot more perfectly normal people who they know attend church, etc. So Christians get rated as a mixed bag. But with atheists, you've run into those asshole "convert everyone" types and noted them, but there is no way to even notice the other 99% of us because not particularly talking about something is a lot less noticeable than talking about something. It's just how human brains work.

I think you're right.


i think he'shiat the nail on the head
 
2011-09-14 01:32:34 PM  

snuff3r:

I don't need you to tolerate me, i need you to keep your personal beliefs to yourselves.


Really? That is your need. To not hear or know of the personal beliefs of others. You sound afraid.
 
2011-09-14 01:32:35 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: trappedspirit: 2) Atheists are just angry with God.

Well, I've seen a lot that sure do protest too much, and strangely only about the one particular branch of one particular religion they were raised in and haven't been able to shake the guilt of. So yeah, there's some "rebellious teenagers" out there in the quest for defining a personal cosmology. They are usually the loudest and therefore get the most attention.

I'll admit that there's some truth to this. Coming out as an atheist can be a hard thing in a culture that puts a premium on religious beliefs, and I've spoken to more than a few atheists who have been effectively disowned because of it.

When that happens, a certain amount of anger is natural and normal, and it makes sense that it'd be focused on the religion that the person is leaving behind, and you're correct that this does make up a certain fraction of atheist rhetoric and that's it's a fairly vocal segment.

However, I hate the implication that the only good atheist is a quiet atheist. In almost any other area of thought, it's considered perfectly normal to advocate for positions that you believe to be true. We don't, in general, just bash people for espousing political, philosophical, or religious beliefs (although we might bash the specific beliefs and arguments made for them), but there's this weird consensus that atheism is an exception and that it's gauche to make any arguments at all in favor of it when even the sloppiest religious apologist gets a free pass to espouse theism at the expense of atheism.

On principle, I don't like closets, and I think that this attitude is geared towards trying to keep atheists in the closet. Having come from an era where being an open atheist could cost you your job, your family connections, and make you a social pariah, I think that I owe a debt of thanks to people like Dawkins and Hitchens for getting atheism out in the public sphere and for making it easier for people to openly declare their atheism.

Yes, their rhetoric was often obnoxious, but when the polite thing is to be silent and invisible, it may well be the case that you need a bit of confrontationism to break through the social status quo.

To borrow an example from the gay rights movement, chanting "We're here, we're queer, get used to it!" wasn't a very nice thing to say. But it was effective.


THIS a million times over. Not that its the same but a similar sentiment has come with every out movement. "OK, OK, we get it. You are black/female/gay/atheist, now shut up and don't let me hear or see you being that".
 
2011-09-14 01:33:01 PM  

WhackingDay: 9) Atheists have no way to cope after losing loved ones without the belief in an afterlife.

Interesting. I discovered that, as an Atheist, when this kind of thing happens, as it did to me, that this is precisely the time when religion is so seductive. It's probably the reason why religion still has the hold it has. Who wouldn't love to believe that the child you just lost is somehow in some wonderful place, filled with joy and love and no pain, etc., etc. It's beautiful and seductive and it's a lie. It's the worst lie you can tell someone. You have no way of knowing what happens after death, you have only a theory, a belief that has no basis in fact.

So, the first thing you, as a religious type, wants to do to someone who has just lost a loved one is to tell them, "it's okay, they're in a better place", well fark you, you lying douche.


I lost my dad and also my father-in-law two months apart last year. My dad's service was a celebration of his life. It was very touching for us to see how he'd moved people in his 72 years on Earth. My father-in-law's service was a 45-minute lecture on how if we accept Christ into our lives, we'll get to see Ted again. Which one was more comforting, the one with platitudes and lies, or the one with fond memories and funny stories?
 
2011-09-14 01:33:40 PM  
So, as more muslims immigrate to the U.S. we can expect that atheists will spend less time criticizing christians and more time on muslims. That's a win for our side boys!

I'm glad that it works for you, but I find agnosticism to be as logically unassailable and philosophically interesting as solipsism. If your standard is to refuse to take a stance unless you ave absolute knowledge, the only things you can believe are statements of mathematical proof (and not even that if you won't accept certain basic axioms as true). Much like Cartesian solipsism, it doesn't really leave any room to believe anything at all... never mind the question of whether or not there's a god.

Yes, you can't go wrong by refusing to take a stance, but I always find it curious that people think that it's a virtue, especially when they don't apply that same principle of logical unassailability to such topics as ghosts, trolls, spammers, .Net developers, on-line retailers who have been in business for thirty years, Eskimos, leprechauns, sasquatches, and whether or not the people around them are sentient.
 
2011-09-14 01:33:44 PM  

Leeds: Damnit. Now I'll never know what Mr Mormon would have said if you replied in the affirmative!

Do you think he had a speech prepared? A special blend of Koolaid?



I think I remember a slight odor of chloroform, but yes, I think he'd been trained on how to deal with angry atheists, and probably had some snappy comebacks he wanted to test out, or a theory that all atheists are angry at god and could be brought round to see it his way.
 
2011-09-14 01:33:48 PM  

Ennuipoet: Bevets: 6) Atheists don't have a moral code.

Acting morally and having a philosophical justification for your actions are two separate issues.

I think this one bothers the me the most. If atheist don't have a moral code but only a philosophical justification for not murdering doctors, blowing up abortion clinics, flying planes into buildings and stealing candy from babies, why are the prisons not full of atheists? If we are so amoral where are the atheist crimes of passion? Why are we not killing everyone that offends us? Why aren't atheists killing their wives for cheating on them? Why aren't atheists robbing banks? After all, we have no moral code to prevent us from acting any way we choose.

To put it another way, considering the how much people like Bevets annoy me, why have I not beat them severely with a Ball Peen Hammer? One, I have a moral code and two, I know the laws of humanity will punish me. The laws of god, not so much.


Well, one could argue that at some point or another, your parents or your parents' parents were religious, or their ancestors were religious and learned their "moral code" from that and if by chance someone in your immediate family is atheist, then they only learned it because of a religious person beforehand.

/Though I think that's ridiculous, because society and culture just shapes and forms how we are.
//Like how Italian mobs are extremely religious and go to church but still are criminals.
///Or women go nuts over fashion for some reason.
 
2011-09-14 01:34:46 PM  

PsiChi: I don't see how anyone who has studied Life can be an atheist, someone who does not believe in God. Look around you - pretty obvious there's intelligence behind the design.


It appears Bishop Paley has joined us. How's it going, Your Excellency?
 
2011-09-14 01:34:55 PM  

drmda: justtray: Quit telling us god doesn't like gays and that the Founding Fathers were Christians

So, why did all the atheists go along with all this "deity" language in the founding documents?


No one said that the founders were atheists. It's pretty clear that a majority of them (particularly the influential ones) were Deists.

It's also interesting that you mention "founding documents" without specifying which ones you're referring to.

The Declaration does, indeed, reference a Creator. However, given the deistic sentiments of the authors, it's a far stretch to suppose that they're specifically referencing a certain Judean carpenter.

And, of course, the Constitution, which is the document that defines the legal framework of the country, not only lacks any mentions of creators (deistic or otherwise), it specifically states that the government has no place in that discussion.
 
2011-09-14 01:35:59 PM  
#6 bugs me the most. I reject the assumption that one needs to believe in an all-knowing, all-seeing magical father figure in the sky ready to punish us in order to be a good person. I'd turn that assumption around and posit that the type of people who assume that of atheists do so because they themselves need the fear of Godly retribution to keep them moral.
 
2011-09-14 01:36:51 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: snuff3r:

I don't need you to tolerate me, i need you to keep your personal beliefs to yourselves.

Really? That is your need. To not hear or know of the personal beliefs of others. You sound afraid.


No, actually, our need is to not have jerks knock on our doors and proselytize to us during dinner. Our need is to not have jerks try to legislate based on their religious doctrines. Our need is to not have people hate us for simply being.
 
2011-09-14 01:37:36 PM  

xaveth: Well, that proves it. Athesists are right and everyone else is wrong. And if you still don't believe this, stay tuned to Fark for more pro-Atheist propaganda.


Well, empirically, we are correct and you guys aren't. Any competent philosopher will note that empiricism isn't the only logically self-consistent philosophy, though, so the question of the existence of a generic divine being is technically still open.

Of course, in philosophy any self-contradictory construct is invalid, and most specific deities fall into that category. The usual Christian view of god, for instance, is a logical contradiction in several major ways, the most well-known one being the problem of evil. So the Christian god definitely does not exist. Flying spaghetti monster's still possible, since there really aren't a suite of stated powers, duties, and characteristics associated. This is why Christians bringing up logic or philosophy in reference to this matter makes me chuckle a bit.
 
2011-09-14 01:37:39 PM  

Marley'sGirl: TsarTom: Rev. Skarekroe: 1) There are no atheists in foxholes.

That's not a myth, it's just an old saying intended to point out the horrors of war.

Interesting. My take on it was always: "When the chips are down, the important things become apparent." or some such.

/atheist

I interpret it as: "When things get bad enough, even an atheist will ask God for help as a last resort" I believe it to be true - what have you got to lose at that point?


Exactly. I obviously can't prove it, but I bet that on any given Sunday in church, at least half the people there don't believe a lick of what they're hearing, and are simply hedging their bets just in case.
 
2011-09-14 01:37:52 PM  
Seriously? No one has linked the Bevets card?
 
2011-09-14 01:38:06 PM  
Still no cure for retarded, trolling subbys or the people who greenlight them...
 
2011-09-14 01:38:11 PM  

PsiChi: Look around you - pretty obvious there's intelligence behind the design.


What are you basing that on?

Be specific.
 
rpm
2011-09-14 01:38:58 PM  

enforcerpsu: That is a terrible analogy and it doesn't even make sense.

I get what the original comes from. That's easy. Yours? Not so much.


I'm guessing this is what he was going for:

The deceased is now in eternal bliss in heaven with god. Why are you crying?
 
2011-09-14 01:39:23 PM  

kronicfeld: Atheists are just jealous of Jesus's ripped abs.


Dennis: I don't wanna get too bulky.
Dee: Right.
Dennis: I wanna stay nice and lean and tight. I wanna get that Jesus on the cross look. You know what I mean?
Dee: I see what you're saying. I think that crucifixion must have been really good for your core because...
Dennis: Oh, absolutely. Jesus had, like, the best abs. He had the right idea. Hey, he knew: no pain, no gain.
Dee: He had good messages.
Dennis: I'm sure he started that.
 
2011-09-14 01:39:45 PM  

eraser8: PsiChi: Look around you - pretty obvious there's intelligence behind the design.

What are you basing that on?

Be specific.


Moon, humans, stars, Earth. Are you stupid? How could a human vagina "just appear out of the nothing"?
 
2011-09-14 01:40:36 PM  

drmda: justtray: Quit telling us god doesn't like gays and that the Founding Fathers were Christians

So, why did all the atheists go along with all this "deity" language in the founding documents?


First, that wasn't my quote.

Second, you're referring to "On the day of our Lord?" I presume? Because that was the standard way of dating documents back then.

Are you really this damn ignorant? Stop posting and go back to school.
 
2011-09-14 01:40:38 PM  

PsiChi: I don't see how anyone who has studied Life can be an atheist, someone who does not believe in God. Look around you - pretty obvious there's intelligence behind the design.

What I could believe is someone not believing that God is perfect, or all-good. This is called "dystheism." You don't hear too much about that, but that seems much more reasonable than atheism.

Is it intellectually dishonest to say you don't believe in God, when in fact you just can't bring yourself to believe that God would let all that is bad occur?

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 300x300]


*looks around*

Really? Because from where I'm standing and looking around, it seems like everything was done pretty half-assed at this point. Unless your going to say that Cancer and the other multitudes of diseases are also part of this intelligent design. Hell, the fact that we have so many different organs performing various functions screams "cobbled together ram-shackle biology" to me. Why not design a single super organ that just does everything? Hell, an intelligent design would be self sustaining! Why design life on earth to be so fragile? Hell, why design the planet to be so harsh?

Our existence is a nothing more than a minor infection to the universe, a glorious accident that we are all fortunate enough to be a part of. I plan to enjoy my time here as much as I can without worrying about the rest of it.
 
2011-09-14 01:41:09 PM  

Bevets: derp


I love how the best you can do is link back to a thread with you doing a grade-school copy-paste "I know you are but what am I?" schtick. You've literally got nothing. A crude attempt at an ad hominem mockery combined with "NO U!" is all you can manage to address my critique of your basic motivations.

Do you not get that you are proving my point? Do you not get that by so behaviong, you are underlining and supporting my thesis? You would be better served to post nothing at all than to link back to a thread where you attempted to ignorantly argue by what amounts to "Nuh-uh! YOU are, so THERE!"

Well obviously not, it would seem. Just another example of irrational ego-defense, even more blatant than the anti-science quote mining. It's so pitiful that you can't separate yourself from your ego-involved ideology long enough to come to the basic realization that other people do not interpret the world the same way you do.
 
2011-09-14 01:41:10 PM  
I don't know why people rag on Bevets all the time. I like his quotes, but I don't feel the need to defend my beliefs, or attack his.

/Secular humanist
 
rpm
2011-09-14 01:41:14 PM  

Maus III: Moon, humans, stars, Earth. Are you stupid? How could a human vagina "just appear out of the nothing"?


Who put the waste treatment plant next to the amusement park?
 
2011-09-14 01:41:19 PM  

drmda: justtray: Quit telling us god doesn't like gays and that the Founding Fathers were Christians

So, why did all the atheists go along with all this "deity" language in the founding documents?


Why did they refer to guns as "Arms?"
 
2011-09-14 01:42:05 PM  

Thorny4Pie: Seriously? No one has linked the Bevets card?


well, it's not like he needed summoning


RevLovejoy: xactly. I obviously can't prove it, but I bet that on any given Sunday in church, at least half the people there don't believe a lick of what they're hearing, and are simply hedging their bets just in case.


or they're their because it allows them some sort of power or prestige. some folks want to have the titles because it looks good to have church elder, or deacon or usher
 
2011-09-14 01:42:20 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: No, actually, our need is to not have jerks knock on our doors and proselytize to us during dinner. Our need is to not have jerks try to legislate based on their religious doctrines. Our need is to not have people hate us for simply being.


Yeah, that's pretty much it. I'm not into strangers showing up at my door uninvited. Much less am I into the unsolicited conversion attempts that follow. It's obnoxious. I might start preferring Hindus and Muslims, because they have never once shown up at my door out of the blue trying to convert me. I've had it happen dozens of times with various denominations of Christian. If there were a chance of me converting to something from atheism, it would be the people who didn't intrude on my home or try to influence my choice one way or another.
 
2011-09-14 01:42:24 PM  
Atheists who are intolerant of Christians because of their own bad personal experience with the church have the exact same mindset as folks who hate other races because of one bad experience with a member of that race.
 
2011-09-14 01:42:25 PM  

Hyperbolic Hyperbole: No, but atheism (and especially internet atheism) would have you believe it's not about live and let live, because they see religious folk as intellectually inferior, and specifically that their religiosity is what keeps them intellectually inferior. And typically, Christians are only religion you ever really see being treated this way (maybe you're all just scared of Muslims?).

To everyone else, nice try. Also, "of course we're angry, we've been lied to" guy - "we've been lied to" implies that you have discovered the absolute truth, which is equally pompous a remark.



1) I think the combination of the 1st Amendment with the fear most Americans have of Islam will keep any future risk to the country from them marginalized. Any "risk" is currently non-existent in this country, despite the whargarbl from idiots like jihadwatch.

2) I think it is absolutely abhorrent the way some Muslims use religion to justify their treatment of women and homosexuals and nonbelievers. My feeling towards the Christians, Jews, Hindus, etc. that do the same are similar.

3)That's a nice false dichotomy there. Saying one thing is a lie does not mean the alternative is "I've found the absolute truth".

//Amusingly, Firefox wants to correct whargarbl with (blowhard).
 
2011-09-14 01:42:34 PM  
Ever notice how Bevets comes in here and pisses everyone off, but in the process drives a bunch of traffic for his shiatty website? Put up some ads, Bevets, and you'll make a bundle. At least put up a counter for us, huh?
 
2011-09-14 01:44:21 PM  

PsiChi: I don't see how anyone who has studied Life can be an atheist, someone who does not believe in God. Look around you - pretty obvious there's intelligence behind the design.


Arguing from incredulity does not make something so.
 
2011-09-14 01:44:38 PM  
My major fear as an atheist is that I'll lose my job because of it, and never be able to prove it.

/teacher
 
2011-09-14 01:44:42 PM  

Maus III: eraser8: PsiChi: Look around you - pretty obvious there's intelligence behind the design.

What are you basing that on?

Be specific.

How could a human vagina "just appear out of the nothing"?


duuuuuuude. i'm sooo stashing that comment for future use. i just need to find the least "appropriate" moment for it.
 
2011-09-14 01:46:12 PM  

Marley'sGirl: I interpret it as: "When things get bad enough, even an atheist will ask God for help as a last resort" I believe it to be true - what have you got to lose at that point?


Pascal's Wager has been around in one form or another for milennia. (link pops)

The usual problem with this concept is that it requires you to believe in the "correct" god, and assumes that the "correct" god will not look askew at you for the reasons you arrived at Pascal's Wager.
 
2011-09-14 01:47:03 PM  
Cults... err... religions have had thousands of years to provide any evidence to support their truth claims. The fact that no evidence has ever been discovered is very telling.
 
2011-09-14 01:47:12 PM  

Kome: bookman: Now there is, in fact, a well thought out philosophical justification for moral actions that has nothing to do with God or religion. The only problem with it is the person who thought it out gives far-left liberals and so-called "progressives" a case of the dry heaves: Ayn Rand

Except for the description "well thought out" and the implication that it's the only philosophical justification that has nothing to do with deities or dogma, you're right.


Sorry, I was assuming that there might be some knowledgeable philosophy majors/graduates here on Fark. My bad. Unless you're got competent in-depth knowledge on Rand's systematic views on Epistemology and Metaphysics, you really have no basis of judging whether it's "well thought out" or not. Somehow I suspect that you do not.
 
2011-09-14 01:47:44 PM  

Kymry: My major fear as an atheist is that I'll lose my job because of it, and never be able to prove it.

/teacher


as if there aren't hundreds of way parents can't make you miserable
 
2011-09-14 01:48:19 PM  

d1zzy32: I don't know why people rag on Bevets all the time. I like his quotes, but I don't feel the need to defend my beliefs, or attack his.

/Secular humanist


Because he promotes lies and deliberate misunderstandings of science and scientists. Pretty simple. It's not all about religion for the rest of us, but it is for him because his worldview depends on it. He attacks science in order to abate the anxiety and cognitive dissonance of having invested his identity in ideas that are fundamentally contradicted as a mere side effect of scientific inquiry.
 
2011-09-14 01:48:45 PM  

BubbaWilkins: Our existence is a nothing more than a minor infection to the universe, a glorious accident that we are all fortunate enough to be a part of. I plan to enjoy my time here as much as I can without worrying about the rest of it.


To be fair, there's a school of thought that life is pretty much inevitable within certain parameter sets, and variation in conditions just changes the timing. "Earth-like conditions", by the way, are apparently actually pretty common in the universe.

But yeah, as a person born before humanity started star-hopping, not worrying too much about it is probably the best course of action.
 
2011-09-14 01:48:52 PM  
You know, I'm sick of hearing people saying that our laws are based on the 10 Commandments and that they should be carved in all the courthouses and schools in this country. The only time I ever rendered my aunt speechless in any debate was discussing this.

Aunt: The 10 Commandments are our moral foundation as a nation. They should be displayed in public and in courthouses everywhere!
Me: All of them? Really?
Aunt: Of course.
Me: So you think that kids who don't honor their parents or people who cheat on their spouses should be reprimanded in our legal system?
Aunt: Well... they're not moral but... no.
Me: And what about the laws about honoring Sabbath, not worshiping another god? There are at least 3 or 4 of those in there and kinda fly in the face of the First Amendment.
Aunt: ...
 
2011-09-14 01:49:55 PM  

Marley'sGirl: I interpret it as: "When things get bad enough, even an atheist will ask God for help as a last resort" I believe it to be true - what have you got to lose at that point?


I can't speak to foxholes, but I was once on my back with an apparent heart attack (turned out to be something else that feels very much like one).

It was only after everything was all over that I realized, in retrospect, that I hadn't given any thought to the subject of gods. I was actually kind of surprised by this given that I enjoy thinking about theology and questions of deep ontology. [1]

Now that I've had time to consider it, I actually think that my reaction was typical. When you're really in the fryer and faced with death, you don't have time to think about philosophy and religion. You're thoughts are more immediate and focus ("geez, this hurts like a mutherfarker!").

I would expect that being under fire is the same thing. The guy who actually stops to pray is the one who's going to take a bullet to the head because he's not paying attention. Most people, I think, will be caught in the moment and they won't be praying (unless obscenities count as prayers).

[1] It's kind of an abstract hobby of mine: let us suppose that there did exist a perfect being: what attributes would it necessarily have? That doesn't mean that I think such a being is likely or even plausible.
 
2011-09-14 01:50:04 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: PsiChi: I don't see how anyone who has studied Life can be an atheist, someone who does not believe in God. Look around you - pretty obvious there's intelligence behind the design.

I'll only point out that this is an assertion and that I don't agree with the contention.

What I could believe is someone not believing that God is perfect, or all-good. This is called "dystheism." You don't hear too much about that, but that seems much more reasonable than atheism.

Is it intellectually dishonest to say you don't believe in God, when in fact you just can't bring yourself to believe that God would let all that is bad occur?

When I look at the universe and assume, for the sake of argument, that a god created it, I find that the evidence does not point to either a good god or an evil god but, rather, a remote and unconcerned god that doesn't appear to involve itself with its creation.

In other words, I find myself being pointed towards a Deistic god. Since Deism is functionally indistinguishable from atheism, except for an ontological quibble, I don't find much utility in that line of thought.


You find the difference between the belief that there is a God that created all this compared to the belief that this all evolved by itself an "ontological quibble"? That might be like saying that the fact that I'm on a cruise ship with a captain can easily be compared to being on a ship with no captain.
 
2011-09-14 01:50:05 PM  

pwhp_67: Let's get this all out of the way:


Bald is a hair color.
Not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Just because you can't see the purple unicorn in my living room doesn't prove it isn't there.


Don't know if this is a meme I'm not familiar with, but:
No, it's not.
No, it's not.
Technically true.

I consider myself agnostic. I just don't know, and I think it is silly that some people think they do. When South Park did the episode about the founding on of the Mormon religion I loved the reactions of some people from different religions, basically stating how crazy or wacky the ideas are, same thing about Scientology. If you tell the stories that are the foundation of any religion, they are all crazy.
 
2011-09-14 01:51:00 PM  

meat0918: Saying one thing is a lie does not mean the alternative is "I've found the absolute truth".


I have been trying to tell this to self assured atheists for years, but it's incredible how convinced they are of their own genius.
 
2011-09-14 01:51:09 PM  
TFA seems to be talking less about the misconceptions of religious people and more about the misconceptions of farkwits. You know those people who believe not so much out of faith, but because they're too dumb to comprehend any other possibility? Yeah, those. Why does anyone even care what they think, beyond to influence their votes come election time?
 
2011-09-14 01:51:34 PM  

bookman: Kome: bookman: Now there is, in fact, a well thought out philosophical justification for moral actions that has nothing to do with God or religion. The only problem with it is the person who thought it out gives far-left liberals and so-called "progressives" a case of the dry heaves: Ayn Rand

Except for the description "well thought out" and the implication that it's the only philosophical justification that has nothing to do with deities or dogma, you're right.

Sorry, I was assuming that there might be some knowledgeable philosophy majors/graduates here on Fark. My bad. Unless you're got competent in-depth knowledge on Rand's systematic views on Epistemology and Metaphysics, you really have no basis of judging whether it's "well thought out" or not. Somehow I suspect that you do not.


It's nice to know that you automatically assume anyone who just says her philosophy isn't well thought-out is philosophically illiterate. It isn't like I provided erroneous arguments against her worldview. I just said that I disagree with the description that it was well thought-out.

But, please, go ahead and continue to try and make whatever point you were trying to make. Getting butthurt defensive at the audacity of someone disagreeing with you before any real discussion has taken place goes a long way towards building a case for your position.
 
2011-09-14 01:51:34 PM  

bookman: Kome: bookman: Now there is, in fact, a well thought out philosophical justification for moral actions that has nothing to do with God or religion. The only problem with it is the person who thought it out gives far-left liberals and so-called "progressives" a case of the dry heaves: Ayn Rand

Except for the description "well thought out" and the implication that it's the only philosophical justification that has nothing to do with deities or dogma, you're right.

Sorry, I was assuming that there might be some knowledgeable philosophy majors/graduates here on Fark. My bad. Unless you're got competent in-depth knowledge on Rand's systematic views on Epistemology and Metaphysics, you really have no basis of judging whether it's "well thought out" or not. Somehow I suspect that you do not.


You'd have a point except the far Right that masturbates to Atlas Shrugged every night sure as hell doesn't have a degree in philosophy, either. You're basically setting up a double standard against the Left.
 
G2V
2011-09-14 01:52:05 PM  
Atheism is illogical. To believe that there is no god requires giving unnecessary credence to the question of whether a god does or does not exist, and then deciding one way or the other without proof.

Being an Atheist is like being an Antileprechaunist.

Far better to just say there's no point in even asking the question without extremely strong reason, and write the whole religious question off as nonsensical, like the tooth fairy, santa claus, and big foot.

To say you disbelieve in God is the same as saying you disbelieve in immaterial invisible intangible magical pink unicorns that shoot fire from their eyes and are the size of galaxies. They might exist, I sure can't prove they don't, but why bother thinking about it?
 
2011-09-14 01:53:18 PM  
Mike Chewbacca

Interesting simul-post. *high-five*
 
2011-09-14 01:53:25 PM  

rpm: Maus III: Moon, humans, stars, Earth. Are you stupid? How could a human vagina "just appear out of the nothing"?

Who put the waste treatment plant next to the amusement park?


god is obviously german. if god was japanese, all the men would have squid like appendages.
 
2011-09-14 01:53:43 PM  
Believe it or not, it's possible to be an atheist and simultaneously despise liberals.
 
rpm
2011-09-14 01:54:42 PM  

Hyperbolic Hyperbole: I have been trying to tell this to self assured atheists for years, but it's incredible how convinced they are of their own genius.


There is an *incredibly* easy way to put those atheists in their place.

Show evidence that they're wrong. Not suppositions, scientifically supported evidence.

Piece of cake. Go to it.
 
2011-09-14 01:55:09 PM  
religion = socially advantageous delusion.

probably more than half of any religious sect have different beliefs from the specific written creed of their chosen sect... but it's socially advantageous to continue to belong to the group (especially if you plan to stay in the same geographical proximity).
 
2011-09-14 01:55:34 PM  

Hyperbolic Hyperbole: meat0918: Saying one thing is a lie does not mean the alternative is "I've found the absolute truth".

I have been trying to tell this to self assured atheists for years, but it's incredible how convinced they are of their own genius.


I remember vaguely a quote, perhaps by Seneca or Espinoza, that says something to the effect of it being the very peak of conceit to believe that there can be only one path to something as profound as absolute truth.

Personally, I wish the emperor Julian had been successful in what he had undertaken.
 
2011-09-14 01:57:08 PM  

G2V: They might exist, I sure can't prove they don't, but why bother thinking about it?


Because other people are willing and eager to subjugate, enslave, rape, torture, and murder people in the name of their immaterial, invisible, intangible, magical, pink unicorn that shoots fire from its eyes and is the size of galaxies.
 
2011-09-14 01:57:38 PM  
www.quarterlives.com
 
2011-09-14 01:59:08 PM  

mjbok: I just don't know, and I think it is silly that some people think they do.


I also don't know there isn't an invisible stalker in my bedroom, but I'm perfectly comfortable saying there isn't. The only difference is that there isn't a worldwide religion based on the invisible stalker in my bedroom, and yet I'm being small-minded because I'm comfortable saying there is no god.
 
2011-09-14 01:59:59 PM  

Barael's Blade: THIS a million times over. Not that its the same but a similar sentiment has come with every out movement. "OK, OK, we get it. You are black/female/gay/atheist, now shut up and don't let me hear or see you being that".


To me, the really curious thing is how many atheists have internalized the notion that any sort of advocacy of our position makes us "just as bad" as the fundamentalists.

I've been kind of shocked at the degree of push-back I get from other atheists when I suggest that maybe, just maybe, it wouldn't be a horrible thing to occasionally make positive arguments for atheism on the general principle that if you believe something to be true, you shouldn't be afraid to make an argument for your position.
 
2011-09-14 02:01:12 PM  

G2V: Atheism is illogical. To believe that there is no god requires giving unnecessary credence to the question of whether a god does or does not exist, and then deciding one way or the other without proof.

Being an Atheist is like being an Antileprechaunist.

Far better to just say there's no point in even asking the question without extremely strong reason, and write the whole religious question off as nonsensical, like the tooth fairy, santa claus, and big foot.

To say you disbelieve in God is the same as saying you disbelieve in immaterial invisible intangible magical pink unicorns that shoot fire from their eyes and are the size of galaxies. They might exist, I sure can't prove they don't, but why bother thinking about it?


When you dont have a point, argue semantics. Never fails.
 
2011-09-14 02:03:00 PM  

PsiChi: I don't see how anyone who has studied Life can be an atheist, someone who does not believe in God. Look around you - pretty obvious there's intelligence behind the design.


Let's assume for a second your God exists. Look at your God, pretty obvious there's intelligence behind the design of your God, no?
 
myc
2011-09-14 02:03:30 PM  

loonatic112358:
i think he'shiat the nail on the head


This is the most beautiful filterpwn I have ever seen.
 
2011-09-14 02:03:36 PM  

G2V: Atheism is illogical. To believe that there is no god requires giving unnecessary credence to the question of whether a god does or does not exist, and then deciding one way or the other without proof.

Being an Atheist is like being an Antileprechaunist.

Far better to just say there's no point in even asking the question without extremely strong reason, and write the whole religious question off as nonsensical, like the tooth fairy, santa claus, and big foot.

To say you disbelieve in God is the same as saying you disbelieve in immaterial invisible intangible magical pink unicorns that shoot fire from their eyes and are the size of galaxies. They might exist, I sure can't prove they don't, but why bother thinking about it?


Not all atheists DISbelieve in gods in any active sense. Many of us simply have no belief in gods, just as we have no belief in fairies.

We're not trying to prove to anyone that gods don't exist.

This is a kind of atheism called agnostic atheism. And among atheists, it's an extremely popular view.
 
2011-09-14 02:03:47 PM  

drmda: justtray: Quit telling us god doesn't like gays and that the Founding Fathers were Christians

So, why did all the atheists go along with all this "deity" language in the founding documents?


Logic isn't your strength.

"Deity" != "Jesus"
 
2011-09-14 02:04:19 PM  

RevLovejoy: Marley'sGirl: TsarTom: Rev. Skarekroe: 1) There are no atheists in foxholes.

That's not a myth, it's just an old saying intended to point out the horrors of war.

Interesting. My take on it was always: "When the chips are down, the important things become apparent." or some such.

/atheist

I interpret it as: "When things get bad enough, even an atheist will ask God for help as a last resort" I believe it to be true - what have you got to lose at that point?

Exactly. I obviously can't prove it, but I bet that on any given Sunday in church, at least half the people there don't believe a lick of what they're hearing, and are simply hedging their bets just in case.


Having been near death now and again, and aware that I was, I can say there are certainly people who don't ask any gods for anything then. In fact the thought didn't even cross my mind in any given case. There was a sort of panic at first when I realised death might ensue. In one case (anaphylactic shock) that or confusion prevailed until I was out of danger altogether, so there wasn't much thinking done whatsoever. In the other case after that wore off I just found myself thinking of things I'd miss if I did die.

I'm sure people who have always been on the fence might have a different reaction, but the idea of gods has never in all my life made any sense to me. It'd be even less logical than a Christian asking Anubis for help. They probably wouldn't even think of that, nevermind try it.
 
2011-09-14 02:05:03 PM  

IamSporko: JPJ007: IamSporko: Sticky Hands: Atheists are like onions.

They're delicious when battered and fried?

Who isn't?

Mormons?


nah, we're too stringy / difficult to chew.
 
2011-09-14 02:05:37 PM  

Kome: Mike Chewbacca

Interesting simul-post. *high-five*


My first simultpost EVER! In a great thread, pwning a jackass about Atlas Shrugged. WOOT!

*high five*
 
Ant
2011-09-14 02:05:47 PM  

Bevets: Bevets:

Acting morally and having a philosophical justification for your actions are two separate issues.

Ennuipoet:

If atheist don't have a moral code but only a philosophical justification for not murdering doctors, blowing up abortion clinics, flying planes into buildings and stealing candy from babies, why are the prisons not full of atheists? If we are so amoral where are the atheist crimes of passion? Why are we not killing everyone that offends us?

You missed my point.


Let me ask you this, Bevets. Is there anything your god could do that would be so reprehensible that you'd stop thinking of him as the most moral being in existence?

If yes, what moral standard are you judging him against?

If no, then what you have is a might-makes-right morality
 
2011-09-14 02:05:58 PM  

PsiChi: Some 'Splainin' To Do: PsiChi: I don't see how anyone who has studied Life can be an atheist, someone who does not believe in God. Look around you - pretty obvious there's intelligence behind the design.

I'll only point out that this is an assertion and that I don't agree with the contention.

What I could believe is someone not believing that God is perfect, or all-good. This is called "dystheism." You don't hear too much about that, but that seems much more reasonable than atheism.

Is it intellectually dishonest to say you don't believe in God, when in fact you just can't bring yourself to believe that God would let all that is bad occur?

When I look at the universe and assume, for the sake of argument, that a god created it, I find that the evidence does not point to either a good god or an evil god but, rather, a remote and unconcerned god that doesn't appear to involve itself with its creation.

In other words, I find myself being pointed towards a Deistic god. Since Deism is functionally indistinguishable from atheism, except for an ontological quibble, I don't find much utility in that line of thought.

You find the difference between the belief that there is a God that created all this compared to the belief that this all evolved by itself an "ontological quibble"? That might be like saying that the fact that I'm on a cruise ship with a captain can easily be compared to being on a ship with no captain.


When the god in question has absolutely no interaction with its creation, I would absolutely say that it's a quibble. The difference between a universe that's the product of a Deistic god and a universe that has no creator is functionally nil.

Since there's no way to logically distinguish a Deistic universe from an atheistic universe, I don't see much point in presuming a creator for such a universe except as an ontological curiosity.

In either case, the "ship", itself, does not have a captain steering it.
 
2011-09-14 02:07:18 PM  
Also, what the hell is wrong with Fark? I'm sitting at my desk Farking by phone because for some reason I can't get the site to load on my computer's browser.
 
2011-09-14 02:08:23 PM  
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2011-09-14 02:08:30 PM  

Hyperbolic Hyperbole: meat0918: Saying one thing is a lie does not mean the alternative is "I've found the absolute truth".

I have been trying to tell this to self assured atheists for years, but it's incredible how convinced they are of their own genius.


Internet atheists or face to face?

I've only met a few face to face, but I can assure you, they and I have not found some absolute truth regarding the existence or non-existence of god, unless "Maybe, but not likely, need more proof" is some profound truth.

There is always the old paradox of "The only absolute truth is there are no absolute truths"
 
2011-09-14 02:08:48 PM  

eraser8: PsiChi: Look around you - pretty obvious there's intelligence behind the design.

What are you basing that on?

Be specific.


I've really made it my life's work to try and figure out what the hell is going on here. And, logically, I don't believe that life, animals, people, natural phenomena (e. g., stars, planets, solar systems, universes), could exist without intelligent design. On our planet, for example, there is a delicate balance that is required for life to be maintained. That includes the need for a certain speed of revolution, a certain distance from the sun, a certain mix of breathable air, etc. If any of these goes out of whack, we all die. Yet, we've lived here for, to avoid an argument about other topics, a very long time.

There is a certain graceful beauty to how things work out, and they are seen every day. You will argue that many things do not "work out." But we do not see the whole picture. How many times have you heard someone say, "If I had not gone through (some awful circumstance), I would never have learned to (some life-altering positive thing, such as love)"?

To believe in this way, IMO, you have to believe in reincarnation, which I do. What goes around, comes around. And this is where things get ugly... The way you treat people in a prior life is how you will be treated in this one. We must learn to be kind, one way or another. Apparently, we are very stubborn, and insist on doing things our own way, even when it seems to hurt us very deeply. But God will go to whatever lengths are necessary to bring you around. The problem is that some of these teaching methods don't seem to be too kind themselves.
 
2011-09-14 02:09:40 PM  

G2V: Atheism is illogical. To believe that there is no god requires giving unnecessary credence to the question of whether a god does or does not exist, and then deciding one way or the other without proof.

Being an Atheist is like being an Antileprechaunist.

Far better to just say there's no point in even asking the question without extremely strong reason, and write the whole religious question off as nonsensical, like the tooth fairy, santa claus, and big foot.

To say you disbelieve in God is the same as saying you disbelieve in immaterial invisible intangible magical pink unicorns that shoot fire from their eyes and are the size of galaxies. They might exist, I sure can't prove they don't, but why bother thinking about it?


Dammit! Now you have me thinking about gigantic unicorns. Now I am never going to get any work done today.
 
2011-09-14 02:10:58 PM  
Oh look bevets the bot is thread shiatting.
 
2011-09-14 02:11:23 PM  

eraser8: Also, what the hell is wrong with Fark? I'm sitting at my desk Farking by phone because for some reason I can't get the site to load on my computer's browser.


I'm having problems connecting here at home. It's only Fark, too. Every other site is fine.
 
2011-09-14 02:12:10 PM  

PsiChi: Look around you - pretty obvious there's intelligence behind the design.


Declaring your position to be "obvious" is not logically equivalent to demonstrating your position to be accurate.
 
2011-09-14 02:12:23 PM  

poisonpill: popesballs: 1.) There are no theists at funerals

/think about it
//it's just as true and false as it's corollary: no atheists in foxholes

That makes no sense. First of all, have you *been* to a religious funeral? They acknowledge the person is elsewhere ("a better place") but mourn because they will be apart from them.

I mean aren't there sad people at airports? You are sad when someone you love departs, no? It doesn't matter if they're in the afterlife or worm food.


Firstly, yes of course I've been to religious funerals. Most recently, someone very close to me passed away unexpectedly. You'll excuse me if I don't give too many details, as I want to keep my personal grief to myself. This person was religious and although I am not, we both understood and respected each others conclusions about the nature of reality - It took nothing away from the love we shared between us.

The throw away phrases "no atheists in foxholes" & "no theists at funerals", in my opinion, are both a little bit true and alot bit false - you'll remember I already said that.

It's true, having your life in immediate danger has a tendency to make some people try to communicate with an incorpeal deity to intervene miraculously - but there are plenty of examples of self identifying atheists who do not do this, as well. Pat Tillman probably being the most famous recent example.

On the other hand I cannot deny the inconsistency in someone proclaiming an absolute certainty of an afterlife in heaven for a loved one and then being miserable and saddened to know that's where they went.

Of course there are theists at funerals, and of course there are atheists in foxholes. Those phrases are just meaningless barbs two factions hurl at one another to score points - but they each may contain a kernel of truth.

I actually think the whole airport analogy is what's way off base. The departing of another person to a far away location, where you know the person actually still exists - in this materialistic world, the only world we actually have any knowlege of - is not to be compared to the finality death.

Oh and another thing. Most religions also profess that people either go to heaven (your "better place") or burn in hell (your sadistic "revenge place") for eternity. And they say that no human will ever be able to differentiate which place the dead person went to. Thats not a very comforting thought, in my opinion.
 
2011-09-14 02:13:25 PM  

G2V: Atheism is illogical. To believe that there is no god requires giving unnecessary credence to the question of whether a god does or does not exist, and then deciding one way or the other without proof.

Being an Atheist is like being an Antileprechaunist.

Far better to just say there's no point in even asking the question without extremely strong reason, and write the whole religious question off as nonsensical, like the tooth fairy, santa claus, and big foot.

To say you disbelieve in God is the same as saying you disbelieve in immaterial invisible intangible magical pink unicorns that shoot fire from their eyes and are the size of galaxies. They might exist, I sure can't prove they don't, but why bother thinking about it?


That is a variation on ignosticism. As you have phrased it, it's a subset of agnostic atheism.

Atheism does not require actively saying, "there is no God!" That's antitheism, which is a subset of atheism (usually a very vocal one).

All atheism requires is that you do not hold (as presented by the prefix a-) belief in a god or gods (theism). It's very minimalist. Everything else that gets added to it by social convention is not necessary to meet the most basic criterion. The version of atheism you refer to, for example (antitheism), requires more than those basic points.
 
2011-09-14 02:14:00 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: We don't, in general, just bash people for espousing political, philosophical, or religious beliefs (although we might bash the specific beliefs and arguments made for them), but there's this weird consensus that atheism is an exception and that it's gauche to make any arguments at all in favor of it when even the sloppiest religious apologist gets a free pass to espouse theism at the expense of atheism.


That's just it, there's no "We" here. There is no general description of atheists behavior I have ever seen be helpful in predicting how the next one you meet will be. There are plenty of clueless people claiming to be non-believers/believers who don't devote much if any time to continuing on the path of learning that lead them to the position they claim to be in support of. Then this position usually leads to the argument of whether or not average intelligence is greater on one side or the other. Which leads to lots of graphs and poll data being thrown about and abused. But I for one have not seen lack of anger, prejudice or stupidity on either side of those positions.

Proselytizing your own beliefs is natural. The main difference between these two camps is, if there happens to be an asshole atheist talking, they don't feel completely unjustified in falling back to the idea that their beliefs are rational and the other idiot is irrational. If there is an asshole theist talking, they don't feel completely unjustified in falling back to the idea that the other person is going to hell if that person does not get their shiat together. Assholes are everywhere.
 
2011-09-14 02:14:43 PM  

G2V: Far better to just say there's no point in even asking the question without extremely strong reason, and write the whole religious question off as nonsensical, like the tooth fairy, santa claus, and big foot.


As it turns out, we have a word for people that do this: atheists.
 
2011-09-14 02:16:31 PM  
Atheism is a Religion. A piss-poor Religion, but a Religion regardless.

The amusing part is where an almost endless supply of Schoolboy Atheists will launch into ever-decreasing circles of denial, and exercises of semantics worthy of any medieval theologian.
 
2011-09-14 02:17:22 PM  

Maus III: eraser8: PsiChi: Look around you - pretty obvious there's intelligence behind the design.

What are you basing that on?

Be specific.

Moon, humans, stars, Earth. Are you stupid? How could a human vagina "just appear out of the nothing"?


read up on traumatic insemination. if I had to formulate a hypothesis on the spot I'd say that it probably formed (well before humans evolved) as a sex organ in response to traumatic insemination being part of the reproductive cycle of a very ancient ancestor. but to answer your question it isn't like one day a woman looking like a barbie just got up one day and POOF! vagina!

but even that is still more likely than an omnipotent being just poofing into existence and deciding to make one
 
2011-09-14 02:20:28 PM  

A challenger appears: ) Most of the responders tried to deflect the observation by saying since Christianity is the dominant religion in the West that it wouldn't make sense to criticize Islam instead of address the point.


I, in fact, responded only by asking why you had lied. You have still not answered that question: for what reason did you lie?
 
2011-09-14 02:21:16 PM  

PsiChi: And, logically, I don't believe that life, animals, people, natural phenomena (e. g., stars, planets, solar systems, universes), could exist without intelligent design.


Natural selection is a very good explanation for the existence of biological diversity without the need to rely on an intelligent agent. In fact, natural selection is a much better explanation when we consider the interrelationship of living things and the adaption of genes, proteins and body structures from one organism to the next.

As for cosmology, the laws of physics are perfectly adequate to explain the structure of the universe -- including stars, planets, solar systems and the rest.

You're basically making an argument from incredulity: since you don't understand how it happened, supernaturalism has to be the answer.

PsiChi: On our planet, for example, there is a delicate balance that is required for life to be maintained. That includes the need for a certain speed of revolution, a certain distance from the sun, a certain mix of breathable air, etc. If any of these goes out of whack, we all die.


I'd like to acquaint you with the anthropic principle.

PsiChi: To believe in this way, IMO, you have to believe in reincarnation, which I do. What goes around, comes around. And this is where things get ugly... The way you treat people in a prior life is how you will be treated in this one.


Interesting idea. But, where's the evidence?
 
2011-09-14 02:22:05 PM  
11. Atheists are usually D&D dorks who work in IT , dry hump their pillows while reading graphic novels and love reminding people they're atheists ALL THE FARKING TIME because they don't realize being an atheist no longer makes them seem edgy or mysterious. They listen to 'experimental' electronic 'music'.

Oh, that one didn't make the list, must be true.
 
2011-09-14 02:24:44 PM  

PsiChi: eraser8: PsiChi: Look around you - pretty obvious there's intelligence behind the design.

What are you basing that on?

Be specific.

I've really made it my life's work to try and figure out what the hell is going on here. And, logically, I don't believe that life, animals, people, natural phenomena (e. g., stars, planets, solar systems, universes), could exist without intelligent design. On our planet, for example, there is a delicate balance that is required for life to be maintained. That includes the need for a certain speed of revolution, a certain distance from the sun, a certain mix of breathable air, etc. If any of these goes out of whack, we all die. Yet, we've lived here for, to avoid an argument about other topics, a very long time.

There is a certain graceful beauty to how things work out, and they are seen every day. You will argue that many things do not "work out." But we do not see the whole picture. How many times have you heard someone say, "If I had not gone through (some awful circumstance), I would never have learned to (some life-altering positive thing, such as love)"?

To believe in this way, IMO, you have to believe in reincarnation, which I do. What goes around, comes around. And this is where things get ugly... The way you treat people in a prior life is how you will be treated in this one. We must learn to be kind, one way or another. Apparently, we are very stubborn, and insist on doing things our own way, even when it seems to hurt us very deeply. But God will go to whatever lengths are necessary to bring you around. The problem is that some of these teaching methods don't seem to be too kind themselves.


If our conditions are so unlikely as to make the logical conclusion that someone put it all there, why is that someone and their own origin more likely to have happened by chance? That seems more like putting off the question than answering it...
 
2011-09-14 02:24:56 PM  

letrole: Atheism is a Religion. A piss-poor Religion, but a Religion regardless.

The amusing part is where an almost endless supply of Schoolboy Atheists will launch into ever-decreasing circles of denial, and exercises of semantics worthy of any medieval theologian.


You obviously have no idea of the definition of the word religion.
 
2011-09-14 02:25:04 PM  

letrole: Atheism is a Religion. A piss-poor Religion, but a Religion regardless.

The amusing part is where an almost endless supply of Schoolboy Atheists will launch into ever-decreasing circles of denial, and exercises of semantics worthy of any medieval theologian.


Welcome to the thread, Troll. You might get a few bites.
 
2011-09-14 02:25:15 PM  
Hey subby...
Choke on my cock.
Thanks.

trappedspirit: ...if there happens to be an asshole atheist talking, they don't feel completely unjustified in falling back to the idea that their beliefs are rational and the other idiot is irrational. If there is an asshole theist talking, they don't feel completely unjustified in falling back to the idea that the other person is going to hell if that person does not get their shiat together.


I do not find either of those views to be assholish, asshole. Maybe you should stop judging us believers and nonbelievers you wish-washer. You nonbelieving-believers with all your talk of rational discourse piss me off.
 
2011-09-14 02:25:22 PM  

FireBreathingLiberal: Bevets: 6) Atheists don't have a moral code.

1. Do the right thing for fear of eternal suffering and damnation?
2. Do the right thing because it's right?


Which is "moral"?


Define what is right/
 
2011-09-14 02:27:00 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: PsiChi: Some 'Splainin' To Do: PsiChi: I don't see how anyone who has studied Life can be an atheist, someone who does not believe in God. Look around you - pretty obvious there's intelligence behind the design.

I'll only point out that this is an assertion and that I don't agree with the contention.

What I could believe is someone not believing that God is perfect, or all-good. This is called "dystheism." You don't hear too much about that, but that seems much more reasonable than atheism.

Is it intellectually dishonest to say you don't believe in God, when in fact you just can't bring yourself to believe that God would let all that is bad occur?

When I look at the universe and assume, for the sake of argument, that a god created it, I find that the evidence does not point to either a good god or an evil god but, rather, a remote and unconcerned god that doesn't appear to involve itself with its creation.

In other words, I find myself being pointed towards a Deistic god. Since Deism is functionally indistinguishable from atheism, except for an ontological quibble, I don't find much utility in that line of thought.

You find the difference between the belief that there is a God that created all this compared to the belief that this all evolved by itself an "ontological quibble"? That might be like saying that the fact that I'm on a cruise ship with a captain can easily be compared to being on a ship with no captain.

When the god in question has absolutely no interaction with its creation, I would absolutely say that it's a quibble. The difference between a universe that's the product of a Deistic god and a universe that has no creator is functionally nil.

Since there's no way to logically distinguish a Deistic universe from an atheistic universe, I don't see much point in presuming a creator for such a universe except as an ontological curiosity.

In either case, the "ship", itself, does not have a captain steering it.


I'm apparently not the only one having trouble with the browser loading,..

Anyway, on what do you base your belief that God has no interaction with Her creation?
 
2011-09-14 02:28:26 PM  

letrole: Atheism is a Religion. A piss-poor Religion, but a Religion regardless.

The amusing part is where an almost endless supply of Schoolboy Atheists will launch into ever-decreasing circles of denial, and exercises of semantics worthy of any medieval theologian.


As opposed to letrole, who can't even manage that much, and so is forced to limit himself to copypasta ad hominem attacks.

Tell me, what's it like to be even less original and creative than Bevets? It must take work to reach that level of sheer dullardly mediocrity.
 
2011-09-14 02:29:52 PM  

Dimensio: A challenger appears: ) Most of the responders tried to deflect the observation by saying since Christianity is the dominant religion in the West that it wouldn't make sense to criticize Islam instead of address the point.

I, in fact, responded only by asking why you had lied. You have still not answered that question: for what reason did you lie?


I didn't see your post until I looked back after receiving this one. I suppose I should have added the qualifier "almost completely" in front of "ignore" in my original comment. I can't see the video (I'm at work and YouTube is blocked) so I'll watch it later.
 
2011-09-14 02:32:35 PM  

letrole: Atheism is a Religion. A piss-poor Religion, but a Religion regardless.

The amusing part is where an almost endless supply of Schoolboy Atheists will launch into ever-decreasing circles of denial, and exercises of semantics worthy of any medieval theologian.


Brilliant as usual. :-)

+1
 
2011-09-14 02:32:39 PM  
3) Atheists are aggressive and rude. This myth has been around ...............

Three paragraphs later:

...........a flimsy belief in a supernatural being made up by pre-literate people trying to figure out where the rain came from.


Hmmmm?
 
2011-09-14 02:32:50 PM  

Charles Martel: [1.bp.blogspot.com image 640x500]


Yeah, I know you're trolling. Ha, ha. You can imagine me angrily rebutting the notion that atheism == Communism if you'd like the thrill of a bite.

I do think that it's slightly ironic that your handle is from someone who could be reasonably called the father of feudalism.

When contemplating the human costs of feudalism and Communism, i think that it's largely a wash. Wouldn't you agree?
 
2011-09-14 02:32:54 PM  

Hyperbolic Hyperbole: But let's be honest here.



Yes, please let's. You start...
 
2011-09-14 02:34:35 PM  

letrole: Atheism is a Religion. A piss-poor Religion, but a Religion regardless.

The amusing part is where an almost endless supply of Schoolboy Atheists will launch into ever-decreasing circles of denial, and exercises of semantics worthy of any medieval theologian.


I live with my mom. waay too obvious. frenchie.
 
2011-09-14 02:34:48 PM  

Leeds: letrole: Atheism is a Religion. A piss-poor Religion, but a Religion regardless.

The amusing part is where an almost endless supply of Schoolboy Atheists will launch into ever-decreasing circles of denial, and exercises of semantics worthy of any medieval theologian.

Brilliant as usual. :-)

+1



More like, repeated as usual. Someday he'll post an original thought that he didn't copy/paste...
 
2011-09-14 02:34:49 PM  

snuff3r: I got as far as "pleading for tolerance of atheists".

As an atheist i couldn't care less what you religious people believe - personally, i think you're all braindamaged to have not let go of the beliefs I had as a six year old. But in the course of my day, i couldn't give a rats ass about any of you and what you believe in. I don't want to hear it. I don't want to be aware of it. I don't want you to force your beliefs on me or my kids. I want you to keep it to yourselves. Religion shouldn't play a part in politics, the office, the classroom and especially in regards to how the country is run.

If you step over that line, then I will make it clear where I stand. Religious people can call me rude, lacking in morals, etc, but honestly, i can't see past the shiat you're displaying far enough to allow me the ability to care what you think.

I don't need you to tolerate me, i need you to keep your personal beliefs to yourselves.


I agree with this comment, but I stand independantly as a seperate atheist who does not consider your opinion before forming my own. There is no "new wave" atheism. There is no "old school" atheism. Atheism is not an orginized belief. It is a disorginized non belief. People who use "we" when talking about the collective thought process are simply trolling for god fearing outrage.
 
2011-09-14 02:38:25 PM  
I personally believe phrases like "ad hominem" and "straw man" were invented by Atheists to shout at people when they have absolutely run out of halfwit sayings they all seem to agree are clever.
 
2011-09-14 02:38:35 PM  

trappedspirit: Some 'Splainin' To Do: We don't, in general, just bash people for espousing political, philosophical, or religious beliefs (although we might bash the specific beliefs and arguments made for them), but there's this weird consensus that atheism is an exception and that it's gauche to make any arguments at all in favor of it when even the sloppiest religious apologist gets a free pass to espouse theism at the expense of atheism.

That's just it, there's no "We" here. There is no general description of atheists behavior I have ever seen be helpful in predicting how the next one you meet will be. There are plenty of clueless people claiming to be non-believers/believers who don't devote much if any time to continuing on the path of learning that lead them to the position they claim to be in support of. Then this position usually leads to the argument of whether or not average intelligence is greater on one side or the other. Which leads to lots of graphs and poll data being thrown about and abused. But I for one have not seen lack of anger, prejudice or stupidity on either side of those positions.


Of course that's true. For any given set of positions, some subset of people advocating that position will be making bad arguments. That's an unfortuate reality of public discourse.

What I mind, however, is that there seems to be something of a double-standard that suggests that any atheist making any argument in support of atheism is acting inappropriately. That is the attitude that I'm objecting to.

Proselytizing your own beliefs is natural. The main difference between these two camps is, if there happens to be an asshole atheist talking, they don't feel completely unjustified in falling back to the idea that their beliefs are rational and the other idiot is irrational.

I'm not sure that this is peculiar to atheism. I find that no matter what the subject is, if there are people who are passionate about it, there are people who are going to condescend to those on the other side of the argument. Belittling the opposition, while bad form, is hardly a vice specific to atheists.

There's also the fact that, sometimes, your opponents really are being idiots. To take the subject away from atheism, I have no compunction against saying that anti-vaxxers, homeopathists, and ghost hunters are making stupid claims, nor do I think that one should be required to spare the feelings of people making stupid claims on behalf of their religious beliefs.

And just to be perfectly clear, that includes atheists. When I used to be much more active in this debate (back in the days of Usenet), I never hesitated to call other atheists on their shiat when they made bad arguments, if only because the quality of their arguments indirectly reflect on the quality of my own. I think that's a good practice no matter which camp you're in.
 
2011-09-14 02:39:24 PM  

Itstoearly: FireBreathingLiberal: Bevets: 6) Atheists don't have a moral code.

1. Do the right thing for fear of eternal suffering and damnation?
2. Do the right thing because it's right?


Which is "moral"?

Define what is right/


right: behaviors which do not go contrary to the typical behavior for your particular tribe, at that point in time. Also known as morals.
 
Ant
2011-09-14 02:39:43 PM  

roncofooddehydrator: I'm an agnostic. That's the only logically tenable position.

/Militant agnostic - I don't know and you don't either.


I'm not 100% certain of the non-existence of leprechauns, but I wouldn't call myself an agnostic about leprechauns.

Theist = Believes in a god or gods
A = not

Not a theist? You're an atheist, regardless of what you do or do not know.
 
2011-09-14 02:39:58 PM  
29.media.tumblr.com
 
2011-09-14 02:40:05 PM  
don't see how this is geek

don't see how 9 were proved true

don't see why we don't just have a dedicated atheism/evolution/etc/etc tab on Fark.
 
2011-09-14 02:40:13 PM  

PsiChi: Some 'Splainin' To Do: PsiChi: Some 'Splainin' To Do: PsiChi: I don't see how anyone who has studied Life can be an atheist, someone who does not believe in God. Look around you - pretty obvious there's intelligence behind the design.

I'll only point out that this is an assertion and that I don't agree with the contention.

What I could believe is someone not believing that God is perfect, or all-good. This is called "dystheism." You don't hear too much about that, but that seems much more reasonable than atheism.

Is it intellectually dishonest to say you don't believe in God, when in fact you just can't bring yourself to believe that God would let all that is bad occur?

When I look at the universe and assume, for the sake of argument, that a god created it, I find that the evidence does not point to either a good god or an evil god but, rather, a remote and unconcerned god that doesn't appear to involve itself with its creation.

In other words, I find myself being pointed towards a Deistic god. Since Deism is functionally indistinguishable from atheism, except for an ontological quibble, I don't find much utility in that line of thought.

You find the difference between the belief that there is a God that created all this compared to the belief that this all evolved by itself an "ontological quibble"? That might be like saying that the fact that I'm on a cruise ship with a captain can easily be compared to being on a ship with no captain.

When the god in question has absolutely no interaction with its creation, I would absolutely say that it's a quibble. The difference between a universe that's the product of a Deistic god and a universe that has no creator is functionally nil.

Since there's no way to logically distinguish a Deistic universe from an atheistic universe, I don't see much point in presuming a creator for such a universe except as an ontological curiosity.

In either case, the "ship", itself, does not have a captain steering it.

I'm apparently not the only one having trouble with the browser loading,..

Anyway, on what do you base your belief that God has no interaction with Her creation?


I'm describing Deism. That's what Deism means. If you aren't familiar with Deism, Wikipedia has a pretty decent write-up.

As I previously noted, when I look at the universe and assume, for the sake of argument, that there exists a creator, I find myself forced to conclude that the creation has all the hallmarks of a deity who is remote and unconcerned about its creation; ergo, deism.

I understand that you don't agree with that assessment, but given that your arguments for your own case basically boil down to arguments from incredulity, you'll pardon me if I don't think that my own assessment is any less valid.

You see the fingerprint of a creator and assume its involved. I see no such fingerprint and must conclude that the creator is either absent or non-existent. So it goes.
 
2011-09-14 02:42:30 PM  

A challenger appears: Yours is the only response to my comment that has had any merit (so far.) Most of the responders tried to deflect the observation by saying since Christianity is the dominant religion in the West that it wouldn't make sense to criticize Islam instead of address the point.


Wrong.

Saying the reason atheists almost always address Christians is because they only interact with Christians, is a very valid explanation.Why do the mechanics at Jiffy Lube only do oil changes? Same thing. Claiming that the valid explanation is a 'deflection' that 'doesn't address the point,' is ironically a deflection.

Also, I pointed out that that observation is the result of cognitive bias. Atheists often do address Islam.
 
2011-09-14 02:42:39 PM  

Hyperbolic Hyperbole: I personally believe phrases like "ad hominem" and "straw man" were invented by Atheists to shout at people when they have absolutely run out of halfwit sayings they all seem to agree are clever.


Not sure if that counts as a new troll, or just an escalation of the same semantic troll you've been running, but I'll go ahead and give ya +1 for novelty in continuity.
 
2011-09-14 02:43:37 PM  

Hyperbolic Hyperbole: I personally believe phrases like "ad hominem" and "straw man" were invented by Atheists to shout at people when they have absolutely run out of halfwit sayings they all seem to agree are clever.



www.cachebeauty.com
 
2011-09-14 02:43:43 PM  
OhFarkItAllToHell! Don't you people EVER tire of having this same argument once per week? Has anyone ever changed someone else's mind? Arguing about religion is the most utterly stupid thing one can do. You'd be more successful cutting down a Sequoia with a pocket knife. Let others believe what they want.

/from a dyslexic agnostic, who stays up at night pondering the existence of Dog.
 
Ant
2011-09-14 02:43:43 PM  

Shazam999: What's the one where you don't care if He's real or not?



Lazy
 
2011-09-14 02:44:22 PM  

Jim_Callahan: To be fair, there's a school of thought that life is pretty much inevitable within certain parameter sets, and variation in conditions just changes the timing. "Earth-like conditions", by the way, are apparently actually pretty common in the universe.

But yeah, as a person born before humanity started star-hopping, not worrying too much about it is probably the best course of action.



Here is an interesting question that I have seen raised with regards to that issue. If intelligent life is even slightly common, why hasn't every single OTHER earth lke planet, incuding ours, been colonized yet?

The Milky Way is terribly old. It took us less then 100 years to go from basic rocketry to having one of our probes leave the solar system. Barring any self-immolation, our technology a mere one-thousand years from now shoud be sufficient for inter-stellar travel.

So what happened to the intelligent life in some other part of the galaxy that invented rocketry five thousand years ago? Ten thousand? Even a million years earlier would not make much of a difference from the planets' or galaxies perspective. There should be hundreds of solar systems with advanced tool using life. Why havent they taken this planet as their own yet? No FTL? Even at .5c, it would only take a couple of hundred thousand years. The million year old civs would still have been here by now.

One can accept that maybe some advanced civilizations simply didnt care to explore/expand, and that some others killed themselves off somehow, but what about the rest of them?

Either we are improbably going to be the first (barring self-immolation), or there is something weird going on.
 
2011-09-14 02:44:44 PM  

jchic: kronicfeld: Atheists are just jealous of Jesus's ripped abs.

and his swimmer's bod?

/rock me sexy Jesus


this is utterly ridiculous! Everyone knows Jesus never swam, he walked everywhere.
 
2011-09-14 02:45:11 PM  

Hyperbolic Hyperbole: I personally believe phrases like "ad hominem" and "straw man" were invented by Atheists to shout at people when they have absolutely run out of halfwit sayings they all seem to agree are clever.


With all due respect, I think that goes a long way towards explaining the quality of your arguments.
 
2011-09-14 02:45:12 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: mjbok: I just don't know, and I think it is silly that some people think they do.

I also don't know there isn't an invisible stalker in my bedroom, but I'm perfectly comfortable saying there isn't. The only difference is that there isn't a worldwide religion based on the invisible stalker in my bedroom, and yet I'm being small-minded because I'm comfortable saying there is no god.


The "some people think they do" was actually not pointed towards atheists, but rather towards anyone that thinks that they, or their religion, have it figured out. For me (and only for me) the not knowing is probably a carryover from being raised religious. I cannot definitively say that FSM doesn't exist (which is the point that many religious people try to hang me on), but no one can definitively say that a god or any god does exist. 'I just know' is not an acceptable response since I am no longer an infant.

I am in the 99.9 percent sure range that atheists have it right, but there is that nagging doubt that there is something controlling everything. However, I believe wholeheartedly that no one has it right if that .1 percent holds to be true.

One of my good friends is an atheist and calls me chickenshiat because I won't cross off that .1 percent of doubt, so I'm stuck as an agnostic.

I never push my beliefs (or lack thereof) on someone, but I will chuckle at some of them.

//Going to church for the first time in decades it was startling to me how much it resembled a nazi rally. Statement, response, statement, response. No independent thought at all in that building.
 
2011-09-14 02:45:37 PM  

Hyperbolic Hyperbole: I personally believe phrases like "ad hominem" and "straw man" were invented by Atheists to shout at people when they have absolutely run out of halfwit sayings they all seem to agree are clever.


people.virginia.edu
 
2011-09-14 02:45:47 PM  

Rev. Skarekroe: 1) There are no atheists in foxholes.

That's not a myth, it's just an old saying intended to point out the horrors of war.


God hates liars.
 
2011-09-14 02:46:13 PM  

pwhp_67: Hyperbolic Hyperbole: But let's be honest here.


Yes, please let's. You start...


Brilliant - I was addressing the belief in the existence of God - you, on the other hand, suggested that because a lot of people (and to be perfectly honest, not even the majority, but just the most vocal folks) who believe in God also believe that God said man to man ass sex is immoral, that you can do away with everything about God.
 
2011-09-14 02:46:15 PM  

eraser8: PsiChi: And, logically, I don't believe that life, animals, people, natural phenomena (e. g., stars, planets, solar systems, universes), could exist without intelligent design.

Natural selection is a very good explanation for the existence of biological diversity without the need to rely on an intelligent agent. In fact, natural selection is a much better explanation when we consider the interrelationship of living things and the adaption of genes, proteins and body structures from one organism to the next.

As for cosmology, the laws of physics are perfectly adequate to explain the structure of the universe -- including stars, planets, solar systems and the rest.

You're basically making an argument from incredulity: since you don't understand how it happened, supernaturalism has to be the answer.

PsiChi: On our planet, for example, there is a delicate balance that is required for life to be maintained. That includes the need for a certain speed of revolution, a certain distance from the sun, a certain mix of breathable air, etc. If any of these goes out of whack, we all die.

I'd like to acquaint you with the anthropic principle.

PsiChi: To believe in this way, IMO, you have to believe in reincarnation, which I do. What goes around, comes around. And this is where things get ugly... The way you treat people in a prior life is how you will be treated in this one.

Interesting idea. But, where's the evidence?


You could study reincarnation - that's really the only way to find out. What really picqued my interest were studies by Dr. Ian Stevenson of the University of Virginia. He discovered that some children claim to remember previous lives. He would go to their homes and get the details of their beliefs, then try and track down the families these children said they were supposedly with previously.

In some cases, the families were quite a ways away from the children reporting these "previous lives," but it would turn out that they would be right on the particulars they had stated. A little girl would remember the name of her husband, or where she had lived, or the manner in which she died, the names of relatives, etc. So this is what got me started on a lifetime of study.

Do you know what "parsimony" is? It is when a theory explains things easily, without having to twist yourself or the facts into a pretzel to make the theory work. That is how reincarnation is, for me. And I can't see a deity wasting perfectly good people, when S/He can recycle them and have them around for companionship forever. Although sometimes I think, because of life circumstances, that God is like that kid in the Toy Story movie (don't know which one) that was just a horrendous monster. Gotta be honest!
 
2011-09-14 02:46:20 PM  

Hyperbolic Hyperbole: I personally believe phrases like "ad hominem" and "straw man" were invented by Atheists to shout at people when they have absolutely run out of halfwit sayings they all seem to agree are clever.


Well, I think Cicero would disagree with you about the former term. There's a reason it's name is quoted in latin, after all. As for the full etymology, see for yourself.

As for the latter term, it is somewhat more recent, but it also has an etymology.

Don't you just love it when someone responds to a disparaging snark with the facts of why the snark is wrong? I sure do.
 
2011-09-14 02:47:16 PM  
The amusing thing about Atheists is the way that they demand respect and expect acceptance of their beliefs. That's the real problem. Atheists feel dirty inside. All the anger, the forced arrogance, the belligerence -- it's simply shame turned inside out.
 
2011-09-14 02:47:35 PM  
Re: "No atheists in foxholes".

There is a grain of truth to this. People in life-or-death (or similarly desperate) situations will tend to grasp at straws. It's a part of the human condition usually described as the "bargaining phase" by psychologists, and frequently preyed upon by religious ghouls with pamphlets in the palliative care wards of hospitals.

/ Everything else was pretty spot on.
 
2011-09-14 02:47:49 PM  

Rev. Skarekroe: 1) There are no atheists in foxholes.

That's not a myth, it's just an old saying intended to point out the horrors of war.


Just got here, and well, fark reading 300 and some odd posts.

Anyhow.

I stub my toe, or get surprised, on occasion, I'll say "Jesus Christ".
I see someone taking a risk and I'll say, "God, I hope this doesn't end badly." Or I'll take a risk myself and say "God help me".

It's a phrase. It's not indicative of what I Believe. It's habit. It's not literal. Even in an atheist those words can bolster confidence, they're a shedding of all thought. You could say "Elephants doing it lying down" if that's what you've heard in movies and society since you were old enough to remember phrases, and it would have the same effect.

It's a ritual, of sorts. It triggers a mental response which focuses concentration on the task at hand.

/that is all
 
2011-09-14 02:47:51 PM  

PsiChi: I don't see how anyone who has studied Life can be an atheist, someone who does not believe in God. Look around you - pretty obvious there's intelligence behind the design.

What I could believe is someone not believing that God is perfect, or all-good. This is called "dystheism." You don't hear too much about that, but that seems much more reasonable than atheism.

Is it intellectually dishonest to say you don't believe in God, when in fact you just can't bring yourself to believe that God would let all that is bad occur?

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 300x300]

static.black-frames.net
 
2011-09-14 02:49:18 PM  

whatshisname: The vast majority of atheists just don't give a crap about religion. They don't argue about it on the Internet, they don't try to convert anyone to their way of thinking and they say "Thank you" when someone wishes them a Merry Christmas or Happy Diwali.


This. Personally I go out of my way to wish people a Merry Christmas because the stupid "war on Christmas" mentality pisses me off. Christmas is a really nice tradition. Much like chocolate at Easter. The concept has become divorced from the religious aspects.

So Merry Christmas, Farkers!
 
2011-09-14 02:49:19 PM  

Ant: roncofooddehydrator: I'm an agnostic. That's the only logically tenable position.

/Militant agnostic - I don't know and you don't either.

I'm not 100% certain of the non-existence of leprechauns, but I wouldn't call myself an agnostic about leprechauns.

Theist = Believes in a god or gods
A = not

Not a theist? You're an atheist, regardless of what you do or do not know.


BLLLEAAAARRRRGGG! WITH US OR AGAINST US!!!

And you wonder why people feel the need to put out articles debunking the "myth" that atheists are aggressive and rude?

See, for the vast majority of agnostics, the whole god/no god question is irrelevant. They just don't give a shiat. Then you come along, and you say, "Well, you don't believe in god, that means you're on my team, and you have to wear this shirt, and read these books, and have all these other beliefs that I have."

And when the poor agnostic says, "Hey, I don't think I believe this stuff..." you tell him he's wrong.

Nice.
 
2011-09-14 02:49:52 PM  

Cubicle Jockey: Jim_Callahan: To be fair, there's a school of thought that life is pretty much inevitable within certain parameter sets, and variation in conditions just changes the timing. "Earth-like conditions", by the way, are apparently actually pretty common in the universe.

But yeah, as a person born before humanity started star-hopping, not worrying too much about it is probably the best course of action.


Here is an interesting question that I have seen raised with regards to that issue. If intelligent life is even slightly common, why hasn't every single OTHER earth lke planet, incuding ours, been colonized yet?

The Milky Way is terribly old. It took us less then 100 years to go from basic rocketry to having one of our probes leave the solar system. Barring any self-immolation, our technology a mere one-thousand years from now shoud be sufficient for inter-stellar travel.

So what happened to the intelligent life in some other part of the galaxy that invented rocketry five thousand years ago? Ten thousand? Even a million years earlier would not make much of a difference from the planets' or galaxies perspective. There should be hundreds of solar systems with advanced tool using life. Why havent they taken this planet as their own yet? No FTL? Even at .5c, it would only take a couple of hundred thousand years. The million year old civs would still have been here by now.

One can accept that maybe some advanced civilizations simply didnt care to explore/expand, and that some others killed themselves off somehow, but what about the rest of them?

Either we are improbably going to be the first (barring self-immolation), or there is something weird going on.


Ah, the good, old Fermi Paradox. It's one of my favorite Big Questions (and I mean that without sarcasm).

My own guess is a combination of intelligent life being relatively uncommon (I find the argument that you need a big moon stabilize axial tilt and, therefore, to have complex life to be somewhat compelling) and that interstellar travel is and will remain prohibitively expensive (i.e., that there's no FTL drive, or cheap antimatter in our future).

But that's just my guess. At this point, I don't think we really have enough evidence, one way or the other, to really tackle the question. As it is, we're only beginning to get a solid estimate for the second term of the Drake Equation. That leaves a lot of room for speculation, still.
 
2011-09-14 02:51:50 PM  

mjbok: I am in the 99.9 percent sure range that atheists have it right, but there is that nagging doubt that there is something controlling everything. However, I believe wholeheartedly that no one has it right if that .1 percent holds to be true.

One of my good friends is an atheist and calls me chickenshiat because I won't cross off that .1 percent of doubt, so I'm stuck as an agnostic.


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2011-09-14 02:52:37 PM  

7wolf: PsiChi: eraser8: PsiChi: Look around you - pretty obvious there's intelligence behind the design.

What are you basing that on?

Be specific.

I've really made it my life's work to try and figure out what the hell is going on here. And, logically, I don't believe that life, animals, people, natural phenomena (e. g., stars, planets, solar systems, universes), could exist without intelligent design. On our planet, for example, there is a delicate balance that is required for life to be maintained. That includes the need for a certain speed of revolution, a certain distance from the sun, a certain mix of breathable air, etc. If any of these goes out of whack, we all die. Yet, we've lived here for, to avoid an argument about other topics, a very long time.

There is a certain graceful beauty to how things work out, and they are seen every day. You will argue that many things do not "work out." But we do not see the whole picture. How many times have you heard someone say, "If I had not gone through (some awful circumstance), I would never have learned to (some life-altering positive thing, such as love)"?

To believe in this way, IMO, you have to believe in reincarnation, which I do. What goes around, comes around. And this is where things get ugly... The way you treat people in a prior life is how you will be treated in this one. We must learn to be kind, one way or another. Apparently, we are very stubborn, and insist on doing things our own way, even when it seems to hurt us very deeply. But God will go to whatever lengths are necessary to bring you around. The problem is that some of these teaching methods don't seem to be too kind themselves.

If our conditions are so unlikely as to make the logical conclusion that someone put it all there, why is that someone and their own origin more likely to have happened by chance? That seems more like putting off the question than answering it...


I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Would you mind rephrasing it?
 
2011-09-14 02:53:24 PM  

drmda: justtray: Quit telling us god doesn't like gays and that the Founding Fathers were Christians

So, why did all the atheists go along with all this "deity" language in the founding documents?


They were neither atheists nor Christians. Largely, they were deists, though some, like Washington, put on a show of being Christian for the benefit of their friends and neighbors. Some of them (Jefferson in particular) had rather nasty things to say about Christianity and organized religion as a whole.
 
2011-09-14 02:53:41 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: But targeting people in moments of weakness to sell them religion is regarded as a normal and even virtuous strategy for proselytizing.

My father died from cancer last year on May 28. My dad's service was a celebration of his life. He was a good man, though not really a nice man. My family was stunned by the 400+ people who showed up for his service, including people he'd worked with in Scouts 30 years earlier. It was truly amazing to visualize how many lives my dad had touched in his grumpy 72 years. I knew that even though my dad was gone, a little bit of him lived on in these people. This mostly-secular service was planned by my mom, who is a devout Christian, and despite the fact that my dad was also a devout Christian and an active member in their church. My family wanted a celebration of Dad's life, and that's what we got.

Two months later, my father-in-law died, also from cancer. His service was much smaller, although my father-in-law was just as good a man, but actually nice. His service was 45 minutes long, just like my dad's, but the pastor only talked about how if we accepted Christ into our lives, we'd get to see Ted again. He didn't talk about Ted's accomplishments or his skills or anything like that, just that Jesus would be our path to seeing Ted again. Instead of the celebration Ted deserved (even more so than my dad), we all got a sermon on how to visit Ghost Ted in the afterlife, if only we'd accept Christ's love. It was disappointing and did nothing to comfort those of us who weren't already Christian.

A funeral isn't the time to proselytize, it's the time to comfort.

/last year was really awful, as you can imagine.


This is why I told the wife I want a viking pyre and not a priest in sight.
 
2011-09-14 02:54:01 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: trappedspirit: 2) Atheists are just angry with God.

Well, I've seen a lot that sure do protest too much, and strangely only about the one particular branch of one particular religion they were raised in and haven't been able to shake the guilt of. So yeah, there's some "rebellious teenagers" out there in the quest for defining a personal cosmology. They are usually the loudest and therefore get the most attention.

I'll admit that there's some truth to this. Coming out as an atheist can be a hard thing in a culture that puts a premium on religious beliefs, and I've spoken to more than a few atheists who have been effectively disowned because of it.

When that happens, a certain amount of anger is natural and normal, and it makes sense that it'd be focused on the religion that the person is leaving behind, and you're correct that this does make up a certain fraction of atheist rhetoric and that's it's a fairly vocal segment.

However, I hate the implication that the only good atheist is a quiet atheist. In almost any other area of thought, it's considered perfectly normal to advocate for positions that you believe to be true. We don't, in general, just bash people for espousing political, philosophical, or religious beliefs (although we might bash the specific beliefs and arguments made for them), but there's this weird consensus that atheism is an exception and that it's gauche to make any arguments at all in favor of it when even the sloppiest religious apologist gets a free pass to espouse theism at the expense of atheism.

On principle, I don't like closets, and I think that this attitude is geared towards trying to keep atheists in the closet. Having come from an era where being an open atheist could cost you your job, your family connections, and make you a social pariah, I think that I owe a debt of thanks to people like Dawkins and Hitchens for getting atheism out in the public sphere and for making it easier for people to openly declare their atheism.

Yes, their rhetoric was often obnoxious, but when the polite thing is to be silent and invisible, it may well be the case that you need a bit of confrontationism to break through the social status quo.

To borrow an example from the gay rights movement, chanting "We're here, we're queer, get used to it!" wasn't a very nice thing to say. But it was effective.


This.

Theism (The Abrahamic ones anyway) is the privilaged position, and has always been. You can put a theistic sign, in front of a building, dedicated to theism (a Church) and no one gets angry. You can dedicate whole television channels to theism, and no one (atheist or theist) will call you a vocal, militant, douche.
 
2011-09-14 02:54:28 PM  

KiltedBastich: Don't you just love it when someone responds to a disparaging snark with the facts of why the snark is wrong? I sure do.


I will mark down your "serious debunking" of an obvious joke as the first actual victory for internet atheists.
 
2011-09-14 02:54:59 PM  

ReverendJasen: I do not find either of those views to be assholish, asshole. Maybe you should stop judging us believers and nonbelievers you wish-washer. You nonbelieving-believers with all your talk of rational discourse piss me off.


Link (new window)
 
2011-09-14 02:55:11 PM  

mjbok: I am in the 99.9 percent sure range that atheists have it right, but there is that nagging doubt that there is something controlling everything. However, I believe wholeheartedly that no one has it right if that .1 percent holds to be true.

One of my good friends is an atheist and calls me chickenshiat because I won't cross off that .1 percent of doubt, so I'm stuck as an agnostic.


My own feeling is that that .1% doesn't mandate agnosticism.

I'm perfectly comfortable saying that I believe that there are no gods, but that doesn't mean that I'm absolutely certainly that I'm correct. For any ontological position short of mathematical propositions, there's always going to be some small amount of epistemic uncertainty.

Will the sun rise in the east, tomorrow. Will I be able to drive my car all the way to work without it sublimating into vapor. Will gravity continue to prevent me from flying off into space, today.

For all of these things, I think so, but there's no way to be absolutely certain. But I would never let such mild uncertainties from expressing the belief that the sun will rise in the east, that my car won't evaporate, and that gravity will continue to function as normal, pending evidence to the contrary.

If a .1% uncertainty qualifies as agnosticism, then I'd say that almost everyone is agnostic about almost everything and that, therefore, it would be a term with little to no real meaning.
 
2011-09-14 02:55:36 PM  

Hyperbolic Hyperbole: I was addressing the belief in the existence of God


No you weren't. Since you seem to not be able to read, or at least comprehend, what you yourself typed - allow me to help:


Hyperbolic Hyperbole: Also, "of course we're angry, we've been lied to" guy - "we've been lied to" implies that you have discovered the absolute truth



pwhp_67:
The Catholic Church says homosexuality is wrong.

Homosexuality has been observed as naturally occurring in nature.

Therefore, stating as fact that homosexuality is a sin and an offense to some god who allegedly created nature, is a lie.



You brilliantly follwed this with:

Hyperbolic Hyperbole: I was talking about God, and you are trying to make this conversation about getting buttdicked


You are as dishonest as your church...
 
2011-09-14 02:55:38 PM  

PsiChi: 7wolf: PsiChi: eraser8: PsiChi: Look around you - pretty obvious there's intelligence behind the design.

What are you basing that on?

Be specific.

I've really made it my life's work to try and figure out what the hell is going on here. And, logically, I don't believe that life, animals, people, natural phenomena (e. g., stars, planets, solar systems, universes), could exist without intelligent design. On our planet, for example, there is a delicate balance that is required for life to be maintained. That includes the need for a certain speed of revolution, a certain distance from the sun, a certain mix of breathable air, etc. If any of these goes out of whack, we all die. Yet, we've lived here for, to avoid an argument about other topics, a very long time.

There is a certain graceful beauty to how things work out, and they are seen every day. You will argue that many things do not "work out." But we do not see the whole picture. How many times have you heard someone say, "If I had not gone through (some awful circumstance), I would never have learned to (some life-altering positive thing, such as love)"?

To believe in this way, IMO, you have to believe in reincarnation, which I do. What goes around, comes around. And this is where things get ugly... The way you treat people in a prior life is how you will be treated in this one. We must learn to be kind, one way or another. Apparently, we are very stubborn, and insist on doing things our own way, even when it seems to hurt us very deeply. But God will go to whatever lengths are necessary to bring you around. The problem is that some of these teaching methods don't seem to be too kind themselves.

If our conditions are so unlikely as to make the logical conclusion that someone put it all there, why is that someone and their own origin more likely to have happened by chance? That seems more like putting off the question than answering it...

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Would you mind rephrasing it?


I'll rephrase it for him: if God created existence, then who created God?
 
2011-09-14 02:56:38 PM  

Oldiron_79: Many people who call themselves Atheists are actually Anti-theists.

Pretty much if you get a kick out of annoying theists and actually give 2 shiats what theists do you are an anti-theist, not an Atheist.

Anti-theists are to Atheists what Westboro Baptist type fundies are to Theists.


Being an anti-theist does not prohibit one from being an atheist. The two are not mutually exclusive, just as Westboro Baptist-type fundies are also theists.
 
2011-09-14 02:56:42 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: drmda: justtray: Quit telling us god doesn't like gays and that the Founding Fathers were Christians

So, why did all the atheists go along with all this "deity" language in the founding documents?

No one said that the founders were atheists. It's pretty clear that a majority of them (particularly the influential ones) were Deists.

It's also interesting that you mention "founding documents" without specifying which ones you're referring to.

The Declaration does, indeed, reference a Creator. However, given the deistic sentiments of the authors, it's a far stretch to suppose that they're specifically referencing a certain Judean carpenter.

And, of course, the Constitution, which is the document that defines the legal framework of the country, not only lacks any mentions of creators (deistic or otherwise), it specifically states that the government has no place in that discussion.


What about Thor's Day or Thursday? Are you suggesting that those that use this day of the week a an adherent of Norse mythology?
 
2011-09-14 02:57:14 PM  

Marley'sGirl: TsarTom: Rev. Skarekroe: 1) There are no atheists in foxholes.

That's not a myth, it's just an old saying intended to point out the horrors of war.

Interesting. My take on it was always: "When the chips are down, the important things become apparent." or some such.

/atheist

I interpret it as: "When things get bad enough, even an atheist will ask God for help as a last resort" I believe it to be true - what have you got to lose at that point?


Why would I ask something I don't beleive exists for help? And isn't it an insult to your faith that you think it's nothing but a last resort for the frightened? Do you people think about what you are saying?
 
2011-09-14 02:58:04 PM  

snuff3r: I got as far as "pleading for tolerance of atheists".

As an atheist i couldn't care less what you religious people believe - personally, i think you're all braindamaged to have not let go of the beliefs I had as a six year old. But in the course of my day, i couldn't give a rats ass about any of you and what you believe in. I don't want to hear it. I don't want to be aware of it. I don't want you to force your beliefs on me or my kids. I want you to keep it to yourselves. Religion shouldn't play a part in politics, the office, the classroom and especially in regards to how the country is run.

If you step over that line, then I will make it clear where I stand. Religious people can call me rude, lacking in morals, etc, but honestly, i can't see past the shiat you're displaying far enough to allow me the ability to care what you think.

I don't need you to tolerate me, i need you to keep your personal beliefs to yourselves.


You're asking (actually, demanding) that people keep their beliefs to themselves while simultaneously ramming your beliefs down others' throats. And knock it off with the whole "religious people are tards" thing. We want religious people to respect our beliefs, so we need to publicly respect their right to believe what they wish. You are not helping our cause at all.
 
2011-09-14 02:58:26 PM  

Satanicpuppy: And you wonder why people feel the need to put out articles debunking the "myth" that atheists are aggressive and rude?

See, for the vast majority of agnostics, the whole god/no god question is irrelevant. They just don't give a shiat. Then you come along, and you say, "Well, you don't believe in god, that means you're on my team, and you have to wear this shirt, and read these books, and have all these other beliefs that I have."

And when the poor agnostic says, "Hey, I don't think I believe this stuff..." you tell him he's wrong.


Uh?

Person1: "2+2 = 7!"
Person2: "No. 2 (1,2) plus 2 (3, 4) equals 4. 2+2=4"

Is person2 really being aggressive and rude?

Pointing out the meaning of words isn't someone trying to convert you to "their team." It isn't aggression, it isn't rudeness, and it certainly isn't a demand that you have to wear t-shirts or read books.
 
2011-09-14 02:58:45 PM  

pwhp_67: Homosexuality has been observed as naturally occurring in nature.


Hamsters eat their own young and monkeys fling poo.
 
2011-09-14 03:00:30 PM  

Satanicpuppy: See, for the vast majority of agnostics atheists, the whole god/no god question is irrelevant.


FTFY.

In any case: Internet agnostics are more annoying than atheists and the religious combined, as they attempt to build a philosophical high ground on a foundation of utter ignorance. I get a kick out of pointing out that they're atheists because it tweaks their noses and they deserve it for being jackasses.
 
Ant
2011-09-14 03:00:59 PM  

Satanicpuppy: See, for the vast majority of agnostics, the whole god/no god question is irrelevant. They just don't give a shiat. Then you come along, and you say, "Well, you don't believe in god, that means you're on my team, and you have to wear this shirt, and read these books, and have all these other beliefs that I have."


I don't give a shiat which books you read, who's team you're on, or what shirt you wear. I just hate this self-righteous attitude of "I'm an agnostic. I don't know and neither do you", as if each side had the same amount of evidence to back them up.
 
2011-09-14 03:01:09 PM  

impaler: Satanicpuppy: And you wonder why people feel the need to put out articles debunking the "myth" that atheists are aggressive and rude?

See, for the vast majority of agnostics, the whole god/no god question is irrelevant. They just don't give a shiat. Then you come along, and you say, "Well, you don't believe i