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(CNN)   Restricted driver's licenses cut fatal accidents among 16-year-olds, but the 18-year-olds make up for that   (cnn.com) divider line 47
    More: Interesting, Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, california dmv, teens  
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2948 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Sep 2011 at 9:53 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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ZAZ [TotalFark]
2011-09-14 09:01:57 AM
This is really old news, but politicians keep making laws stricter because they'd rather believe instincts than facts.
 
2011-09-14 09:55:40 AM
With picture of what clotheslining may look like?
 
2011-09-14 09:56:48 AM
So fewer 18yo would die if 16yo didn't have restricted licenses?
 
2011-09-14 09:58:01 AM
New drivers are bad drivers, regardless of their age? Color me shocked.
 
2011-09-14 10:00:29 AM
Bad, inexperienced drivers are still bad, inexperienced drivers at any age? I for one am shocked.
 
2011-09-14 10:00:38 AM

hartzdog: New drivers are bad drivers, regardless of their age? Color me shocked.


This is a variant of the same shiat MADD peddles. Shifting the drinking age to 21 does mean fewer 18-20 year olds die from drinking and driving. It also means that corresponding number shifts to the 21-24 year old demographic.
 
2011-09-14 10:00:49 AM
Although "the evidence is mixed at this point about how GDL affects older teens," she says, "I don't think there's any study that hasn't found a large benefit for 16-year-olds."

I see someone is thinking of the children. Because an increase in fatal crashes in an age bracket 2 years higher that all but off-sets any decrease in the younger bracket totally means you saved their lives.
 
2011-09-14 10:01:37 AM

Voiceofreason01: Bad, inexperienced drivers are still bad, inexperienced drivers at any age? I for one am shocked.


You, good sir, are the voice of reason.
 
2011-09-14 10:04:04 AM

hartzdog: New drivers are bad drivers, regardless of their age? Color me shocked.


Interesting little factoid: In the state I live in you can legally operate farm machinery at age 14. Our county, which has a lot of farming activity, has a below average "new drivers" accident rate when compared to counties with a mostly urban and suburban population.

Perhaps rather than tightening the leash on 16-18, kids should be allowed to get their learner's permit at 14 and have a series of state mandated driving classes. Then at 16 (or 17) they can get the full license. Three years of driving with parents and three summers of driving classes would likely make for better young drivers.

/standard curfews already take care of the kids who stay out late, no need to expand those laws to just driving
 
2011-09-14 10:06:32 AM

redmid17: hartzdog: New drivers are bad drivers, regardless of their age? Color me shocked.

This is a variant of the same shiat MADD peddles. Shifting the drinking age to 21 does mean fewer 18-20 year olds die from drinking and driving. It also means that corresponding number shifts to the 21-24 year old demographic.


then, perhaps don't make it age based, make it more difficult, or require learning permits/graduated learning for all new drivers. I know the demands for a driver's license are more strenuous in Europe, and they tend to have less accidents overall omho (of course, there are other factors: better public transportation, less drunk driving, less high speed/highway driving, less young drivers, etc).

/ I don't mind more strenuous laws so long as they are not arbitrary. 21 drinking age is arbitrary. Making it tough for everyone is at least equal treatment.
 
2011-09-14 10:06:38 AM

hartzdog: New drivers are bad drivers, regardless of their age? Color me shocked.


No, that's not the shocking news.

The shocking news is that driving is a skill that requires practice. Who knew?

Drivers only get better as they gain seat time. An 18 year old driver with no experience will make the same mistakes that 16 year makes. The age can be anything you want and the stats will look the same for those newly licensed drivers too.
 
2011-09-14 10:08:20 AM

ha-ha-guy: Our county, which has a lot of farming activity, has a below average "new drivers" accident rate when compared to counties with a mostly urban and suburban population.


perhaps you've failed to recognize that driving in a farming community is less dangerous than driving in population. other cars are the real problem, not the roads themselves. 5 year olds can drive on empty streets relatively safely.
 
2011-09-14 10:09:16 AM

hartzdog: New drivers are bad drivers, regardless of their age? Color me shocked.


I would like to subscribe to your newsletter
 
2011-09-14 10:09:24 AM

ha-ha-guy: hartzdog: New drivers are bad drivers, regardless of their age? Color me shocked.

Interesting little factoid: In the state I live in you can legally operate farm machinery at age 14. Our county, which has a lot of farming activity, has a below average "new drivers" accident rate when compared to counties with a mostly urban and suburban population.

Perhaps rather than tightening the leash on 16-18, kids should be allowed to get their learner's permit at 14 and have a series of state mandated driving classes. Then at 16 (or 17) they can get the full license. Three years of driving with parents and three summers of driving classes would likely make for better young drivers.

/standard curfews already take care of the kids who stay out late, no need to expand those laws to just driving


i grew up in arkansas, and we had permits allowed at 14 (parent or adult in the passenger seat), regular license allowed at 16. i did both. my dad taught me how to drive in automatic and in standard, and i took driver's ed as a high school elective (cut a percentage off insurance!).

i didn't learn how to REALLY drive, though, until i was stationed in germany from ages 22-26...gotta really know what you're doing at 125+mph!
 
2011-09-14 10:09:55 AM
So, the obvious solution is to restrict 18 and 19 year old drivers, and then you'd definitely see a drop in teenage driving accidents.
 
2011-09-14 10:10:44 AM

BigNumber12: With picture of what clotheslining may look like?


Hand signals.

/Still strange, though. Never had to practice those during driving school.
//I honestly don't think most people would catch hand signals until after the turn anyways.
 
2011-09-14 10:13:35 AM
JPINFV: //I honestly don't think most people would catch hand signals until after the turn anyways.

Can't say I've ever seen them used anywhere but on a bike/motorcycle.
 
2011-09-14 10:14:05 AM

ha-ha-guy: hartzdog: New drivers are bad drivers, regardless of their age? Color me shocked.

Interesting little factoid: In the state I live in you can legally operate farm machinery at age 14. Our county, which has a lot of farming activity, has a below average "new drivers" accident rate when compared to counties with a mostly urban and suburban population.

Perhaps rather than tightening the leash on 16-18, kids should be allowed to get their learner's permit at 14 and have a series of state mandated driving classes. Then at 16 (or 17) they can get the full license. Three years of driving with parents and three summers of driving classes would likely make for better young drivers.

/standard curfews already take care of the kids who stay out late, no need to expand those laws to just driving


Same goes for most rural places. Empty dirt roads are great for letting a four-year-old take control of the wheel.

So please, let children drive illegally. It's for their own good and will save lives.
 
2011-09-14 10:19:25 AM
Stupid argument. If you restrict drivers licenses for ANY age it will cut fatal accidents. It's the same argument MADD makes for raising the drinking age. If you made the drinking age 30 it would cut down on drunk driving. Should we? No. And we shouldn't restrict 16-year-olds from driving when they need to drive to get to work, school, and other places.
 
2011-09-14 10:23:14 AM
Uh, simple answer. Driver training mandatory whether you are planning to take the test at 16 or not. Health education and driver training as a graduation requirement.

Over and done.

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2011-09-14 10:24:05 AM
i2.cdn.turner.com

I'd rear-end it.
 
2011-09-14 10:24:31 AM
American drivers are horrible period. we need to adopt what Germany does everything is taught though the state and cost 1600 bucks per class. Then maybe your snowflake will actually try and learn instead of just trying and failing over and over again till they get it right.
 
2011-09-14 10:25:53 AM

ha-ha-guy: hartzdog: New drivers are bad drivers, regardless of their age? Color me shocked.

Interesting little factoid: In the state I live in you can legally operate farm machinery at age 14. Our county, which has a lot of farming activity, has a below average "new drivers" accident rate when compared to counties with a mostly urban and suburban population.

Perhaps rather than tightening the leash on 16-18, kids should be allowed to get their learner's permit at 14 and have a series of state mandated driving classes. Then at 16 (or 17) they can get the full license. Three years of driving with parents and three summers of driving classes would likely make for better young drivers.

/standard curfews already take care of the kids who stay out late, no need to expand those laws to just driving


fark it. Make it 12. Driving is integral to our society and it's a crime that we force kids to wait until they are actually a member of that society, with expectations of participation, before giving them a chance to develop those skills.

Pass the test? Here's the permit. No driving without a guardian with a license in the car. No driving after 10 pm. No driving on freeways.

6 months of that? Version 2. Still need a licensed parent or legal guardian present. Still have a curfew. Welcome to freeways.

The the parent thing goes. Then the curfew.

/Maybe not 12. 14 is pretty good. That'd make the kid 16 by the time s/he was driving on their own with two full years of practice under their belt. Two more years before we release them into the wild. Super double plus bonus.
 
2011-09-14 10:26:47 AM

joeflood: Same goes for most rural places. Empty dirt roads are great for letting a four-year-old take control of the wheel.

So please, let children drive illegally. It's for their own good and will save lives.


My daughter hit 205 on an enclosed test track at age 13. Private property means you can legally operate the vehicle (although your insurance company may foam at the mouth). I always wondered what child services could say about that.

Her driver's ed teacher said she was the best student he ever had. Although he did deduct points for the fact she peeled out in the school's Dodge Neon once or twice.

/she's getting a 4 cylinder for her first car though
//loved the V8 I got at 16, two great years until my dumbass put it into a tree
/here honey, have a Chevy Cruze
 
2011-09-14 10:30:54 AM

JPINFV: So, the obvious solution is to restrict 18 and 19 year old drivers, and then you'd definitely see a drop in teenage driving accidents.


That will only work until the nanny state shills decide to twist the definition of teenager to include anyone in their 20s. With their tenuous grasp of reality, the fact that it's rooted in the 'ten' means nothing.

/ in pr0n, even people in their mid-30s can be teens
// so I hear
 
2011-09-14 10:33:44 AM
Self Defecating Humor: / in pr0n, even people in their mid-30s can be teens
// so I hear


Now that I think about it, I have seen some wrinkly babysitters.
 
2011-09-14 10:39:25 AM

ha-ha-guy: joeflood: Same goes for most rural places. Empty dirt roads are great for letting a four-year-old take control of the wheel.

So please, let children drive illegally. It's for their own good and will save lives.

My daughter hit 205 on an enclosed test track at age 13. Private property means you can legally operate the vehicle (although your insurance company may foam at the mouth). I always wondered what child services could say about that.

Her driver's ed teacher said she was the best student he ever had. Although he did deduct points for the fact she peeled out in the school's Dodge Neon once or twice.

/she's getting a 4 cylinder for her first car though
//loved the V8 I got at 16, two great years until my dumbass put it into a tree
/here honey, have a Chevy Cruze


my cousin just turned 16 and got her first street-legal car, my mom's old altima. i have to say "street legal" because for about 3 years now she's been drag racing her own mini-rail...wins a good bit too. i'd ride in the altima with her.
 
2011-09-14 10:39:47 AM

Noticeably F.A.T.: JPINFV: //I honestly don't think most people would catch hand signals until after the turn anyways.

Can't say I've ever seen them used anywhere but on a bike/motorcycle.


I use them when riding my signal-less '69 Triumph or driving my '48 Overland Willys truck. Most people think I'm waving to someone.
 
2011-09-14 10:57:29 AM
one solution is to buy 16-18 year olds really shiatty cars. case in point -- i had a reliable but very, very slow 1992 subaru loyale for the first few years I drove. If I floored it, downhill with a tailwind, i could hit 76 or 77 mph. It taught me that getting someplace when I wanted to be there was much more a function of leaving early and taking the right route than it was a function my driving speed. It also taught me to enjoy aspects of driving that have nothing to do with handling or speed -- windows down, shiatty stereo blasting jethro tull, and enough space for four good friends to join me. And yes, jethro tull. No, I did not get laid, why do you ask?

Seriously, though, your kid should drive a slow but reliable car until they can afford otherwise. It also forces them to develop personality, because the car sure as hell isn't going to help them meet chicks.
 
2011-09-14 11:04:04 AM
Dump the age restrictions, and push those limits on new drivers for some period of time regardless of age. Problem solved. Farkin politicians.
 
2011-09-14 11:19:49 AM
TFA: "I don't think there's any study that hasn't found a large benefit for 16-year-olds."


Her use of the word "benefit" is one-sided and highly debatable.

Increased safety is indeed a benefit. Not being denied the freedom to drive when you need/want to, with the people you need/want to travel with, is also a benefit. It is not at all a given that the first is more important than the second.
 
2011-09-14 11:30:33 AM
CapnBlues: "...windows down, shiatty stereo blasting jethro tull..."

Yes! I'm NOT the only under-40 who blasted Tull out of his first car! Respect, sir.
 
2011-09-14 11:46:48 AM
Well... DUH.

Oh, and it still makes it hard for the shrinking minority of rural people. Mom couldn't wait until we could drive ourselves to practices and such. But hey, whatever gets you votes from the unwashed masses.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2011-09-14 11:51:31 AM
The last time I saw a car driver use hand signals I was out in the Berkshires behind some guy in an antique that probably didn't have turn signals. That was several years ago. Bicyclists occasionally signal turns out in the suburbs where they are afraid of cars; I see a hand signal every year or two.
 
2011-09-14 12:17:40 PM

ZAZ: The last time I saw a car driver use hand signals I was out in the Berkshires behind some guy in an antique that probably didn't have turn signals. That was several years ago. Bicyclists occasionally signal turns out in the suburbs where they are afraid of cars; I see a hand signal every year or two.


I use hand signals when riding my motorcycle as well as turn signals. Seems to be the smart thing to do...
 
2011-09-14 12:19:16 PM
My first car was a 1980 Pontiac Sunbird that I bought for $125 (yes one hundred twenty five) dollars. I bought in in 1994 shortly after I turned 17. It had a radio with turn knobs, no tape deck, no working seatbelts, no carpet, bare interior roof, and a rusted out hole in the radiator that was "fixed" with duct tape and a failing master cylinder which nesscesitated the use of the parking break to get the car to stop on occasion before I got it replaced. Fun times.
Point being that this thing would top out at about 65, before it started to shake so bad it was scary. Kept me from speeding, but didn't stop me from totaling it less than a year later when I fell asleep behind the wheel due to parting all night. Due to no seatbelt, I busted my head open on the windshield and would have probably bled out and died if a passerby hadn't seen me and called 911. 4 days and 40+ stitches in my head later I was out of the hospital. Couple months later, I got a shiny new red Toyota Paseo which I then was topping out at 110 MPH on back country roads with my friends.

Guess my point is if teenagers are gonna drive stupid, their gonna drive stupid no matter how much training they have.

/I was a stupid teenager.
//Can't belive I didn't kill/maim myself sometimes.
 
2011-09-14 12:19:27 PM

AgentTokyo: Dump the age restrictions, and push those limits on new drivers for some period of time regardless of age. Problem solved. Farkin politicians.


But then it would affect people who vote. Drop the voting age to 16 and see what happens.
 
2011-09-14 12:31:07 PM
Evolution in Action
 
2011-09-14 01:04:11 PM

itsdan: AgentTokyo: Dump the age restrictions, and push those limits on new drivers for some period of time regardless of age. Problem solved. Farkin politicians.

But then it would affect people who vote. Drop the voting age to 16 and see what happens.


When getting a pilots license, you don't hear people complain: "But I'm 30 years old! Sure I only trained on a Cessna but I'm old enough to handle a 747."

Again though I think its about training and experience rather than age that matters. I'd like to believe the people of voting age who understand this far exceeds the number of people who don't. At least not until Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho is elected...
 
2011-09-14 01:08:55 PM
Bad driving is a lot of just little bratty teenagers 'showing off' to their friends anyway. I was inexperienced at 16 when I got my learners permit too. But since I was serious, I was very careful. Yes I made mistakes, and it took years to actually become a seasoned, experienced driver....

But I also just watched high school let out in my town, and watched some student's peel out of the parking lot. I watched another kid smiling goofily at some other kid, and drive at him (the other kid just barely jumping out of the way also smiling goofily).

Even when I was that age, and rode with friends who would drive, they would speed like idiots, and do stupid things.

I'm sure all these little shiats act perfectly normal when driving with their parent's or in driving school, but when they are around their peers, they act like morons. That, combined with inexperience is causing issues.

The answer is not more restrictions, but a change in culture (which is pretty impossible to do on a large scale). Getting one's license should be a sacred thing. It should be something to be proud of along with one's skill level, and how safe they drive.

More realistically, there needs to be a change in parenting too. Enough with these little spoiled brats getting their own cars when they turn 16 (or 18).

Parent's should ride with their kids for a long time, and build up that kid's experience and driving skills with them right by their side, offering an adult and experienced voice to guide them as they learn. Driving school just isn't enough.

And while driving school does give you some experience, it would be much better if they actually taught driving skills. They should have a lot, and set up a skid, so that kids learn to handle skidding out. They should take them out on the highway for hours (cumulative), to teach kids how to handle situations there. Emergency stops, skids, etc, should all be a part of real driver's training. Not this half-assed drive around town with some burned out fat guy with a second brake pedal until your time is up crap.
 
2011-09-14 01:17:47 PM

spmkk: CapnBlues: "...windows down, shiatty stereo blasting jethro tull..."

Yes! I'm NOT the only under-40 who blasted Tull out of his first car! Respect, sir.


hell yeah. under 30, for another couple weeks. :) Which album? For me, it was Original Masters.
 
2011-09-14 02:10:26 PM
MrSteve007: '48 Overland Willys truck

Holy fark would I love to have one of those.

AgentTokyo: Again though I think its about training and experience rather than age that matters.

I'd say training and experience matter more than age, but your ability to make decent decisions all plays a part, and that is affected by age.
 
2011-09-14 03:13:31 PM

CapnBlues: spmkk: CapnBlues: "...windows down, shiatty stereo blasting jethro tull..."

Yes! I'm NOT the only under-40 who blasted Tull out of his first car! Respect, sir.

hell yeah. under 30, for another couple weeks. :) Which album? For me, it was Original Masters.



Huh, that's one of the only ones I didn't have. Mostly Warchild and Songs from the Wood in the car, Benefit and Stand Up in the Discman (yes, Discman). And Clive Bunker's drum solo on Dharma for One from Living in the Past got LOTS of playtime.

Then I saw them in concert and cried over music so good getting butchered so bad. (The eternal optimist that I am, I subjected myself to that about 3 times before giving up.) Other popular selections in the car were Jane's Addiction, Mr. Bungle, Metallica (before the black album), Mozart and the Bangles. I was a little odd in high school...
 
2011-09-14 03:29:02 PM

spmkk: CapnBlues: spmkk: CapnBlues: "...windows down, shiatty stereo blasting jethro tull..."

Yes! I'm NOT the only under-40 who blasted Tull out of his first car! Respect, sir.

hell yeah. under 30, for another couple weeks. :) Which album? For me, it was Original Masters.


Huh, that's one of the only ones I didn't have. Mostly Warchild and Songs from the Wood in the car, Benefit and Stand Up in the Discman (yes, Discman). And Clive Bunker's drum solo on Dharma for One from Living in the Past got LOTS of playtime.

Then I saw them in concert and cried over music so good getting butchered so bad. (The eternal optimist that I am, I subjected myself to that about 3 times before giving up.) Other popular selections in the car were Jane's Addiction, Mr. Bungle, Metallica (before the black album), Mozart and the Bangles. I was a little odd in high school...


i had a tape deck and made lots of tapes, myself. for me it was tull, zeppelin, and zz top, for the most part.
 
2011-09-14 04:46:50 PM
Meh teenagers think they are immortal I know I thought that. But around June kids seem to wrap themselves around trees
 
2011-09-14 06:29:15 PM
Forget the 18-year-olds, how about revoking some licenses of the ~81-year-old crowd?

Past 65, people should be required to retake the road test about every five years to prove continued driving competency.

/will never happen, so long as using a voting booth remains easier than figuring out how to turn your blinkers off.
//cue South Park elderly drivers episode
 
2011-09-16 12:19:51 AM
I remember I was surprisingly stupider when I was driving with friends when I was just starting out. I still drive a bit stupider with others than by myself.

I think Asia has a thing where they have 2-3 classes of cars and there are different permit levels and ages. Your first car would likely be something that you weren't going to get in trouble in, want to be seen in, wasn't going to be fun to pile 4 friends in, etc.

Also driver's education in the US is a joke. Education, formalized, for 50-100 hours would be enough. All the stuff that one typically learns in the first 5 years should be on the final test.
 
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