Tatsuma: To dismiss it out of hand because of this, however, is bigotry.

To dismiss a source out of hand because it can't possibly be impartial is anti-Semitic? REALLY?

Behold, Tatsuma logic!

Tatsuma: As everyone agreed Pollard getting life in prison was a fair sentence, I am sure everyone will agree to send all those involved in spying on Israeli soil (and that's what an embassy is) to be arrested, remanded to Israel and sent for life in prison after fair trials, right?

Embassies are not territory of the country that occupies them, contrary to popular perception.

Phoenix_M: Thats OK, Israel has been bugging the Whitehouse & Capital building for the last 30 years.

/It's true...I heard it on Rense.com

If it wasn't reported on RushLimbaugh.com , it didn't happen.

Rush 2012 & 2016 !

GAT_00: Tatsuma: To dismiss it out of hand because of this, however, is bigotry.

To dismiss a source out of hand because it can't possibly be impartial is anti-Semitic? REALLY?

Behold, Tatsuma logic!

If you disagree with Israel you're an anti-Semite. Duh.

Marine1: A map including most (if not all) of the countries we spy on:

those dirty greenlanders are up to something..... and i will get to the bottom of it!

fark Israel.

Tatsuma: Tainted1: Yeah, we'll probably get around to that as soon as we're finished with the investigation on the USS Liberty.

USS Liberty: Case Closed (Jewish Virtual Library Link)
To harp on this makes you a truther.

HahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaHahahahahahahahah a hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha

When I met my wife she was working at the Israeli embassy in Washington DC so I am getting a kick.

/This is nothing they did not already know
//Both the CIA,FBI, and Massad had my home phone tapped for years.
\\She was a secretary for spies so it was expected.

wee: Tatsuma: yet it wasn't

another one added to the wilful ignorance list I suppose.

There are almost 16 minutes between your wall o' text (12:03:31 PM) and your previous post (11:47:20 AM). Your wall o' text has 1,645 words in it. You're trying to tell me that you can type 102 words per minute -- including HTML formatting, spell checking past proper nouns, using proper grammar and punctuation -- and that you can do so while adding 22 individual bullet points citing names and dates?

So you either have an abnormally one-tracked, Rainman-like mind for all matters Israeli such that you can pull out things like dates and monetary figures going back to the 1950's from memory AND you're an absurdly fast typist, or your reply to me regarding your post not being pre-prepared isn't true.

Is it willful ignorance if I say that I think if you fib about the small stuff you're probably likely to stretch the truth about the big stuff?

How long does it take you to cut-n-paste sections of a couple of quick Google searches? Cuz it takes me about 2 minutes to wall of text someone who's pitting their stupidity versus reality (the original question versus the actual situation).

On topic: As has been said before, we spy on everyone, including ourselves. Why shouldn't we spy on Israel?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say we do that for every Embassy, and that we pretty much expect that all of ours are that was as well. Otherwise why would we encrypt messages to and from there?

It would be more of a shock if it came out we WEREN'T intercepting communications. Same reason I'm cool with the UN being here.

I really hope Tats isn't a U.S. citizen. His allegiance clearly lies with that of Israel and Israel only.

Tatsuma: hitchking: Such a weird comment to make. The author is a Jewish person living in Israel. Suspecting that he might have a pro-Israel bias is in no way anti-Semitic.

It's not anti-semitic, no.

To dismiss it out of hand because of this, however, is bigotry.

hitchking: But it's completely natural to suspect that he might not.

and it's bigotry not to read the article, roll your eyes and move on just because of who wrote it.

wee: There are almost 16 minutes between your wall o' text (12:03:31 PM) and your previous post (11:47:20 AM). Your wall o' text has 1,645 words in it. You're trying to tell me that you can type 102 words per minute -- including HTML formatting, spell checking past proper nouns, using proper grammar and punctuation -- and that you can do so while adding 22 individual bullet points citing names and dates?

or or or.... that was a cut paste!

wee: So you either have an abnormally one-tracked, Rainman-like mind for all matters Israeli such that you can pull out things like dates and monetary figures going back to the 1950's from memory

Actually, I do too.

So dismissing someone's thoughts as bigotry out of hand is what exactly?

Tatsuma: Aarontology: Israel is 70 years old?

"We started spying on Israel even before the state of Israel was formally founded in 1948

So I suppose that they were spying on the Sochnut (Jewish Agency) before the State was created

Ahh, looks like a Grandfather clause situation to me: "Well, we'd apologize for violating your sovereignty, but you see, the taps were in place before you were Sovereign"

Tatsuma: And the Jewish Agency was the organization that basically took care of all Jews in the British Mandate, so that's why it's incredibly likely they were the ones who were being spied on.

The Jewish Agency eventually morphed into the Israeli government the same way the Haganah became the IDF.

An unintentional insight into why the non-Jews who were living in the land that would become Israel at the time of it's creation weren't very happy about it.

Tatsuma: As everyone agreed Pollard getting life in prison was a fair sentence, I am sure everyone will agree to send all those involved in spying on Israeli soil (and that's what an embassy is) to be arrested, remanded to Israel and sent for life in prison after fair trials, right?

My reasons for no:

(a) Israel didn't remand Pollard to the US. We caught him in our territory.

(b) Pollard did it for money. He was not part of any Israeli intelligence agency.

(c) I'd be willing to trade Pollard for the next US spy Israel captures in her territory

[okwiththis.jpg]

Tatsuma: Old_Chief_Scott: Well, maybe now they will go ahead and tell us what was going on with the attack on the USS Liberty.

... The early 70s called and wanted to tell you that this has been done and redone and really nothing left to say about this now.

"sorry"?

tlchwi02: Marine1: A map including most (if not all) of the countries we spy on:

those dirty greenlanders are up to something..... and i will get to the bottom of it!

At least someone has a sense of humor about this.

Seriously, this is nothing to be shocked at. Everyone spies on everyone else. In a way, it's flattering that they never knew. Israel has held the championship title in spying with Mossad for decades now. It's stunning that they never found out.

Carousel Beast: How long does it take you to cut-n-paste sections of a couple of quick Google searches?

Where exactly is the stuff Tats cites at will commonly found around the web? That wall of text isn't all that likely to be found at one site that he found in a quick Google search unless it's already been written up. Either he's stealing commentary wholesale or he's already got stuff he's supposed to say.

Turkey kicking out top Israeli diplomats over Gaza blockade
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-09-02/world/turkey.israel_1_mavi-marmara - foreign-minister-ahmet-davutoglu-gaza-based-militants?_s=PM:WORLD


Now here is a trend I like. Maybe we should just kick their ambassador asses back to their precious homeland. Spying problem solved.

I have no doubts that the Mossad knew exactly what we were up to the entire time.

Tatsuma: Old_Chief_Scott: Where would that link be precisely?

Try here

I'm a huge supporter of Israel, but that explanation rings hollow.

That was a huge series of screw-ups that, by definition, constitutes negligence. The report lists all the failures on the Israel side, and then says "Yet none of these amount to the kind of gross negligence of which the Israelis have been accused."

I disagree.

A wise gentile once said "Hear everything, trust nothing." Or was that a Ferengi?

Either way, I'd expect no less from our allies. Unconditional trust is a non-option for serious matters.

Mugato: Israel acts as a staging area so that we can more quickly attack our enemies in the ME that we have because of Israel. And they act as quality control by testing our weapons for us. And all it costs us is our left nut that we give directly to Israel and our right nut that we give to Egypt to keep the peace with Israel.

It's a two way street.

No shiat. When Bibi stood before our Congress and criticized our President while those douches stood and cheered was when I pretty much decided it was time to play tough with those pricks. You wanna diss your sugar daddy? Fine, defend your own borders without our help. Good luck with that.

diaphoresis: Rush 2012 & 2016 !

Idiot. Everyone knows that it's Rush 2112.

Tatsuma: As everyone agreed Pollard getting life in prison was a fair sentence, I am sure everyone will agree to send all those involved in spying on Israeli soil (and that's what an embassy is) to be arrested, remanded to Israel and sent for life in prison after fair trials, right?

Nope. Israel is the client state. Israel can share information, and it can tolerate our efforts to ensure it shares all of its information, or it can STFU, and finance its own damn war machine.

GAT_00: Either he's stealing commentary wholesale or he's already got stuff he's supposed to say.

oy....It's a living.

Bladel: WTF Indeed: Well since we've given them hundreds of billions of dollars, and thousands of American lives in "protection" of them. I'd say we've earned to know what the f*ck they were up too.

This.

We bought & paid for the country, so we get to peek under the covers.

No no no no. This is one of the most disturbing trends used in justification for encroachment by authoritarians.

The idea that your voluntary support of another grants you the justification to violate the rights of the recipient of your benevolence is a recipe for failure in the long run.

Spying is something that states do to one another, but the justification you are using is flawed.

Tatsuma: jvl: (b) Pollard did it for money. He was not part of any Israeli intelligence agency.

Actually it was determined he did it out of ideology, not money

My bad, I looked it up on Wikipedia. I should know better than to look up a modern controversial topic there.

Oh look! It's another thread about Tatsuma!

I'm happy to know that every day there will be a new thread on fark about RON PAUL, Rick Perry, and everyone's favorite internet troll.

FarkedOver: I really hope Tats isn't a U.S. citizen. His allegiance clearly lies with that of Israel and Israel only.

Which means you're an antisemite. Go on, ask him.

DarwiOdrade: Carth: Headso: weird, my ignore posts from users quoting ignored users doesn't seem to be working to full effect.

I didn't even know they added that option. Thank you for mentioning it.

Wow down to 40 comments amazing.

You can even make it so you see the poster, but not the post.

It's stunningly easy to defeat though.

Create alt, quote people via copy/paste instead of the quote button, voila. All the neurotic people still have to scroll past the name of that person they can't stand.

/Fark ignore lists are such a waste of time

Boring,
I would be more impressed if we found ANY embassy that wasn't bugged.

Without spying on the embassy, we would have no idea what classified information was being given to Israel from Jews in congress, Jews in the Pentagon (Pollard), Jews working for US military contractors, etc.

Tatsuma: Geotpf: Tatsuma: As everyone agreed Pollard getting life in prison was a fair sentence, I am sure everyone will agree to send all those involved in spying on Israeli soil (and that's what an embassy is) to be arrested, remanded to Israel and sent for life in prison after fair trials, right?

Embassies are not territory of the country that occupies them, contrary to popular perception.

Burn Notice and Chuck, how could you lie to me?!

No, seriously got a link about that? That's interesting and certainly goes against popular perception


http://integrity-legal.com/legal-blog/miscellaneous/laws-and-rules-re g arding-extraterritoriality

Link (new window)

There is a common misconception that Embassies and Consulates have extraterritoriality. As anecdotal evidence of this misconception, people will often say things like, "the US Embassy sits upon United States soil." For the most part, this is not the case as extraterritoriality is not conferred upon an Embassy or Consulate, but in some situations extraterritoriality may be created by Treaty. That being said, members of diplomatic legations (Ambassadors, Representatives, Consuls, Vice Consuls, Deputy Ambassadors, and Charges D'Affaires) may be accorded extraterritorial status within the foreign state to which they have been accredited. Also, the property of such representatives may have extraterritorial status. For example, an official diplomatic pouch will not be subject to search and seizure by a country other than the country with ownership of the pouch.


I am here to eat popcorn and inform... and I'm all out of popcorn

Tatsuma: WTF Indeed: Well since we've given them hundreds of billions of dollars, and thousands of American lives in "protection" of them. I'd say we've earned to know what the fark they were up too.

First of all, hundreds of billions of dollars? .... Big list of stuff...

Anything that doesn't relate to wars, fighting, killing people, and funding for "Defense Companies"?

That was a big list of war stuff, you guys have anything useful to offer?

Tatsuma: Geotpf: Tatsuma: As everyone agreed Pollard getting life in prison was a fair sentence, I am sure everyone will agree to send all those involved in spying on Israeli soil (and that's what an embassy is) to be arrested, remanded to Israel and sent for life in prison after fair trials, right?

Embassies are not territory of the country that occupies them, contrary to popular perception.

Burn Notice and Chuck, how could you lie to me?!

No, seriously got a link about that? That's interesting and certainly goes against popular perception

Well, there's this:

Link (new window)

I think one of the issues here is that there are a lot of protections in an embassy, and, as a practical matter, they end up being very similar to as if they were the territory of the foreign nation in a lot of circumstances.

Marine1: At least someone has a sense of humor about this.

Seriously, this is nothing to be shocked at. Everyone spies on everyone else. In a way, it's flattering that they never knew. Israel has held the championship title in spying with Mossad for decades now. It's stunning that they never found out.

Well, for anyone to voluntarily live in greenland, they've GOT to be up to something, right?

/now i'm legit curious though. only 56k people, but lots of oil and NG projected....

Meh.

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070110055033AArqDLB

Fark ate the link.