old news, makes you wonder though, he announces, and our esteemed media decides to do this, why in the UK?

what a wicked web we weave.......

well SOMEBODY has to start WWIII.

and it HAS to be a DEMOCRAT in the WHITE HOUSE.

bush hasn't the stones.

ok...the GOP, smear campaign, an article written by the BBC in 2000, posted to Fark.

yep...must be a conspiracy by the evil "Neocon fundies"

Cthulus_Toaster Why does Tom Clancy hate Russians so much? Anyone have the information, they always seems to be the bad guys in everything he writes, or any game of his.

You should read _Clear and Present Danger_ In it, the bad guys are islamic terrorists. I find it amusing that in the movie it was changed so that the bad guys were nazis. I guess we don't want to perpetuate any stereotypes about the religion of peace. Right?

Omega Ohm
Nuclear arms and energy treaty come to mind... anybody got more?

El_Presidente: I wish Californians could remember the last idiot-ass actor they elected as Governer. Thankfully, he got alzheimers and now won't be able to remember the horrifying things he did as Prez.

Yes, I imagine that quickening the downfall of the Soviet Union would be horrifying to you. After all, it was a socialist paradise!

Actually, Repubs aren't scared of Gen. Wesley Clark (a wolf in peacemaker's clothing if ever I saw one!). I respect his service to our country, but suspect his running as a Dem is more about ambition and payback than politics and principals. He might help Dems by showing them just how far Left their other candidates lean, which could help to propel a more moderate candidate to the Dem nomination.

However, I don't think the Dems are going to pull off an upset of Bush. Not b/c Bush can't be beat, but rather that they are too far Left to be electable in a country that traditionally votes moderates into the presidency.

Omega:

You haven't heard? Arms control treaty with the Russians...
the Kyoto Accords...not to mention a ton of health and children commitments to the U.N. that we didn't go along with, because we wanted to side with Iran and condemn birth control.

2003-09-17 02:05:22 PM Anagrammer
Again, I find it hilarious that the Dems are praising his lack of political experience when we have a gubernatorial candidate in California whom the Dems are criticizing for his lack of political experience. You should all drown a painful death in the deep waters of your own hypocrisy.

Clark doesn't have a lack of political experience. He was Commander of NATO in Europe and Southern Command in South America. In both of those position he's had to deal with heads of state in highly charged political arenas.

He's had tons more foreign realtions experience than Bush had when he was appointed President.

Ohhh! Anagrammer ... the cold war is over, stop hatin' on the ruskies.

Wesley Clark once balanced a pen on his desk for three straight days. It fell when the cleaning woman bumped the desk when she was emptying the trash can. He never tried to beat his own record!

true. I swear it happened. really

Well, the russians were being total biatches.

Anyway, Bush would have nuked 'em, so whatever.

Anagrammer
I hereby invoke
Foxwin's Law /prov./ [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Fox News approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned Fox News has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Foxwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups.
Do what your professors command and repeat after me:
"Fox News is the root of all that is evil."

"what a wicked [tangled?] web we weave......."

When first we practice to deceive
But once we've practiced for a while
How vastly we improve our style.

dof's cap to SherKhan

El_Presidente: Ohhh! Anagrammer ... the cold war is over, stop hatin' on the ruskies.

Ohhh! El_Presidente ... the 80's are over, stop hatin' Reagan.

There's a lot of things like this that are going to hurt him. For one, he has no political experience. We know having know political experience is a bad thing because the Democrats told us exactly that about Arnold Schwarzenegger.

He doe have political experience, just no domestic experience.

I find it very funny that farkers keep referring to his "lack of political experience" when the article itself is discussing a political/diplomatic event from the 1990s in which he was the US's man-in-charge and in which diplomacy and politicking ruled the day once the guns had stopped.

The man's flaws are in DOMESTIC policy (and even he admits this) but he's still got more experience with foreign matters and diplomatic matters than GWB ever did or likely ever will (not too much longer for Mr. One-Termer...fingers crossed)

Touche...

BritneysSpeculum
I would think that this story will play well with the Neocons and other Bushiates who believe that the US has the god given right to project its power whereever and whenever it wants.

I said the same thing yesterday. It appears however, that flexing American military might is only acceptable when the man in the Oval Office is represented by an elephant.

3Horn

2003-09-17 02:09:11 PM Omega Ohm
What treaties has Bush broken exactly?

Kyoto for one. That's off the top of my head. Give me some time, I'll find more

paradroid --
"You haven't heard? Arms control treaty with the Russians...the Kyoto Accords...not to mention a ton of health and children commitments to the U.N. that we didn't go along with, because we wanted to side with Iran and condemn birth control."

Let's see...

1. We withdrew from the Anti-ballistic treaty. We didn't break it. We withdrew by the terms laid out in the treaty itself.

2. We never signed Kyoto to begin with.

3. "...not to mention a ton of health and children commitments to the U.N. that we didn't go along with, because we wanted to side with Iran and condemn birth control."

You have a treaty name for that? Didn't think so.

GooberMcFly I think you mean The Sum of All Fears.

oops. my bad. I've never even read CaPD - only seen the movie. My favorite Clancy book though is Red Storm Rising which was, I think, his second one. The soviets are the bad guys, but they're uber cool bad guys!

Correction, we didn't ratify Kyoto.

god democrats are stupid.

now they're rationalizing whatever they can to support their candidate and ignorantly attacking the other side, mostly with unrelated 'well look at what BUSH DID!!!'

but it turns out, it's not a conspiracy. it hasn't even been written in the past 3 years.

and the republicans aren't attacking. they aren't frothing at the mouth... they aren't even criticizing much.

the left is just a hysterical bunch of knee-jerk shiat-spewing ignorant farks.


keep diggin yer '04 graves...

The Southern Dandy


2003-09-17 02:09:11 PM Omega Ohm
What treaties has Bush broken exactly?

Kyoto for one. That's off the top of my head.

The US signed that? Hmm...

3horn:

I'll take Bush's idea of military might any day over Clinton's "Wag-the-Dog" lets-lob-a-missile-at-a-camel's-ass-and-call-it-retaliation policy.

**dons protective asbestos suit in anticipation of RPG's**

WorldCitizen thanks for noteing. I get real tired of the knee jerk labeling that goes on here and most of the time it is the liberal crowd doing it. Thanks for reading not that makes two of us in this thread.

I go toe to toe against people on Gun control, DEfending hte right for religion to, Getmo Camps etc. I am most often accused of being a fundie (by non thinking label sheep that graze these forums) but I rather like this guys credentials, I think of him kinda like Colin Powell, moderate conservative only diff is the (d) that goes by his name on the ballot. I hope he gets the nod I may vote Dem this election if he does. I

wow that was quick, he just announced his candacy today, no? so begins the war of the ring.... i mean the smear campaign.

he must be doing something right pissing off the neocons AND michael moore.

i didn't see this kind of knee jerk action with howard dean. muhahaha republicans must know they are in a pisser with this guy.

and for fark's sake please learn what 'neo-con' means. i know you think it sounds cool, but it just makes you look stupid.

While performing as SACEUR, Clark ate an entire steak dinner with baked potato, green beans and desert and when he was done, made not ONE remark that he was full!

true. I swear it happened. Really

Omega,

How about the Geneva Convention, you foolish person?

Also, I was referring to freezing millions for the World Health Organization that we'd agreed to pay. That's treaty-breaking. You see, we were afraid that some of the money might not be going to abstinence-only education.

Yes, I imagine that quickening the downfall of the Soviet Union would be horrifying to you. After all, it was a socialist paradise!

Man, when are folks going to learn Reagan can't take sole credit for that? A rusty, undercut economic structure collapsed on his watch and he gets the credit for it.

When communism finally collapses in China (which it will) it's because it's inevitable. It's a grossly flawed system that fails as soon as folks develop a greedy, me-first attitude. You can see the cracks forming already.

And when Castro dies, parties on the Cuban beaches for all! Bring on the casinos!

But whoever's in power at the time doesn't get credit for it.

Come on libs. You can do better than this. Try doing what you always do when challenged and say something stupid about:
A) GWB
B) John Ashcroft
C) Fox News

D) Patriot Act
E) Iraq
F) WMD
G) 'In a perfect world...'

He's off and running....

Articles accusing him of war crimes in
5,
4,
3...
Wait, started already. Only took 2 1/2 hours. And Fox News it there!

I don't know enough to start defending the guy yet, but that doesn't mean we don't know enough to start attacking him. He's a Democratic candidate.

Feh! :(~

I don't think anyone running right now is 'too far left'.. Edwards has a great speech going about how the republicans have gained blue collar workers through belief in free market and thus hard work.

Edwards says (essentially) that we should reward hard work and not 'playing the market' or getting rich off others. As soon as the middle class realizes that unfettered free market ideologues are just looking to screw them while feeding them platitudes about pulling ourselves up by our bootstraps, it won't be an issue of being 'too far left'. It'll be an issue of republicans being 'too far right'.

Kiler -- If memory serves, Pres. Clinton signed it and sent it to the Hill to be ratified, where it was basically DOA in an extremely bipartisan way; e.g. the Senate voted 95-0 to not ratify it barring substantial changes which were never made.
Thus, it was never binding on the US.

3horn no the problem is "Flexing" for the last (D) admin was launching a couple cruisemissles into tents and one target in syria i think. Their idea of stopping ethnic cleansing only extended to europe not to africa and their idea of helping human rights in china was to say "Do whatever you want and we will throw more money at you" That kind of track record makes it hard to say "look ma I got balls now" For the record I like Wes may vote for him if he gets the nod. Just pointing out some facts

optikeye: Wow, the neo-cons are treating the BBC as a fair and balanced news source. That's gotta hurt.

So, you're saying that the liberals are wrong about Gen. Clark? It's not the conservatives or these imagined "neo-cons" writing this stuff about him.

"An Open Letter to Michael Moore: You Are Way Off Base About Wesley Clark" By TERRY LODGE

Clark / Powell in 2004.

I would vote for that.

"A) GWB
B) John Ashcroft
C) Fox News"

All 3 are slipping fast in the polls? :)

noahs_fark
i didn't see this kind of knee jerk action with howard dean. muhahaha republicans must know they are in a pisser with this guy.

You did but you were too busy coming up with stupid shiat to say about
A) GWB
B) John Ashcroft
C) Fox News
to notice. Go find a few more candidates to divide the left's support for us.

typo- 3 year old article by BBC = Fox News conspiracy?


wow, you really can't read

Cthulus_Toaster
Why does Tom Clancy hate Russians so much? Anyone have the information, they always seems to be the bad guys in everything he writes, or any game of his.

Because Clancy was(is) an accountant, hence the lack of imagination.