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(Chicago Sun-Times)   Chicago university removes SAT and ACT requirements, measuring a student's ability to pay as the sole admission criteria   (suntimes.com) divider line 104
    More: Fail, SAT Scores, University of Chicago, DePaul, University and college admissions, Chicago, application software, measurements, students  
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6538 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Sep 2011 at 12:59 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-09-02 10:36:45 AM
Meh. SAT score is just a number and only is a measure of how well you do on the SATs.
 
2011-09-02 10:58:10 AM

RexTalionis: Meh. SAT score is just a number and only is a measure of how well you do on the SATs.


And your parent's income is only a measure of how reliably you'll be able to pay for $500 books.

Wait...
 
2011-09-02 11:05:51 AM
SATs have been showing for years to have little correlation with success in college. It's a scam - a lot of people make a lot of money off them.
 
2011-09-02 11:44:30 AM
If you can afford DePaul, more power to you.
 
2011-09-02 11:54:37 AM
DeVry?

*check tfa*

Oh. Well, DeCloseenough.
 
2011-09-02 12:20:34 PM
UofC -startling

DePope's - meh

Misleading headline - fark you, subby. -1
 
2011-09-02 12:39:48 PM
Chicago university removes SAT and ACT requirements, measuring a student's ability to pay academic success and extracurricular activities as the sole admission criteria

FTFY
 
2011-09-02 12:56:33 PM
DE PAUL!


Wait, I think I did that wrong...
 
2011-09-02 01:03:08 PM
I enjoyed the subtly misleading headline. It got me to click.
 
2011-09-02 01:03:09 PM
So, it's like the White House now.
 
2011-09-02 01:03:14 PM
Never took the SAT or ACT.

/ Have a PhD from a Big 10 University.
// Sure had to take, and get a great score on the GREs, though.
 
2011-09-02 01:03:49 PM

The Onion is prophetic: Chicago university removes SAT and ACT requirements, measuring a student's ability to pay academic success and extracurricular activities as the sole admission criteria

FTFY


Great correction and all, but those criteria are worthless.
 
2011-09-02 01:06:19 PM
I always thought that from an academic angle - not a financial one - college should be easy to get into but hard work to stay there. I did not do well in HS at all but graduated college with a 4.0 because it was the kind of environment I had expected education to be like and worked hard because I appreciated it. HS was just a diploma mill.
 
2011-09-02 01:06:24 PM
As someone who is registering at depaul in a few hours, I'm getting a kick blah blah

Good thing I have the GI Bill so I can wellfare queen my way into the school
 
2011-09-02 01:06:40 PM
Anything to mask the downward slide, huh? We can't even keep up with our own standards, much less those of the rest of the world.
 
2011-09-02 01:06:45 PM
I though it read SCAT requirements, then lost my train of thought.
 
2011-09-02 01:07:24 PM
what if I already have a degree from Faber College '62?

www.drinkingdiaries.com
 
2011-09-02 01:08:02 PM
I have no objections to this. I'm a horrible tester when it comes to standardized tests, but I still managed to graduate from grad school. Both my SATs and GREs were horribly low scored and, in my case, not a good indicator of how I would do in college.
 
2011-09-02 01:08:57 PM
At first I thought that was Dan Quayle's alma mater, but it turns out he went to DePauw.
 
2011-09-02 01:10:09 PM
Only valid if you have 10,000 marbles...
 
2011-09-02 01:10:42 PM

zetar: Never took the SAT or ACT.

/ Have a PhD from a Big 10 University.
// Sure had to take, and get a great score on the GREs, though.


Many years ago, every h.s. kid graduating in the top half of his/her class was granted the right to attend the U. of WI, SATs/ACTs be damned. I dunno if it even applies any more... if it does, it's likely only top 10% or something.... Madison used to serve more like 40k undergrads and they cut it way back to about 30k.

/no wonder we put out top students in the nation, decade after decade
//that has since declined, since we've gone to tax-slashing mode
/yay for underfunding societal demand! self-fulfilling prophecy, engage!
 
2011-09-02 01:14:27 PM

CPT Ethanolic: SATs have been showing for years to have little correlation with success in college.

High

scores and success, perhaps. But for an admissions program, the purpose is to correlate low scores with failure. For example, if you're not getting at least 700 on your math score, odds are you're not cut out for MIT and trying to make the case that you're just a bad test-taker is wasting their time. Someone good enough for MIT ought to get well over 700 on the math section while drunk. A big state university only cares that you're not retarded; yeah, someone with a 900 composite is probably as likely to graduate as someone with a 1200. But even state schools will think twice before admitting someone with a 550 if they have any standards.

A rough analogy would be like using the 40-yard dash for evaluating NFL prospects. It's just one way of measuring talent and means jack shiat as far as predicting if a player will succeed on the field or not. So why do they do it? Because a player with a bad 40-yard dash time will most certainly fail.
 
2011-09-02 01:15:07 PM
I'm sure not having to pay the ridiculous fees for the SAT/ACT means the college can get more money.
 
2011-09-02 01:16:01 PM
At least that means it'll go back to being what college was back in the beginning - a place to sort out the wealthy and leisure class from the dregs. If your parents are rich enough to afford to send you to a $60k/year summer camp to do nothing of any use except make friends with other yacht-owners and bankers' sons like Chet and Allestair, and perhaps to find a suitable wife, then go to college! If not, then we don't want your kind here, peon! Go skim the leaves out of the pool before cocktail hour!
 
2011-09-02 01:16:21 PM
ETS is a private company with a monopoly on these tests. ETS makes a butt ton of money off these tests and selling the answers to them. What's great is that, despite their claims, you can study for these tests, and a good $1000 course almost assures you a top score.
 
2011-09-02 01:16:53 PM

gameshowhost: zetar: Never took the SAT or ACT.

/ Have a PhD from a Big 10 University.
// Sure had to take, and get a great score on the GREs, though.

Many years ago, every h.s. kid graduating in the top half of his/her class was granted the right to attend the U. of WI, SATs/ACTs be damned. I dunno if it even applies any more... if it does, it's likely only top 10% or something.... Madison used to serve more like 40k undergrads and they cut it way back to about 30k.

/no wonder we put out top students in the nation, decade after decade
//that has since declined, since we've gone to tax-slashing mode
/yay for underfunding societal demand! self-fulfilling prophecy, engage!


Texas does the same thing. top 10% of your school, guaranteed admission to a state university.
 
2011-09-02 01:21:16 PM
my AM eliminated SAT requirements and is still ranked in the top colleges in the country... granted it has fallen but that's probably because I am no longer there
 
2011-09-02 01:21:57 PM

TheOther: UofC -startling

DePope's - meh

Misleading headline - fark you, subby. -1


This.
 
2011-09-02 01:22:48 PM

gameshowhost: zetar: Never took the SAT or ACT.

/ Have a PhD from a Big 10 University.
// Sure had to take, and get a great score on the GREs, though.

Many years ago, every h.s. kid graduating in the top half of his/her class was granted the right to attend the U. of WI, SATs/ACTs be damned. I dunno if it even applies any more... if it does, it's likely only top 10% or something.... Madison used to serve more like 40k undergrads and they cut it way back to about 30k.

/no wonder we put out top students in the nation, decade after decade
//that has since declined, since we've gone to tax-slashing mode
/yay for underfunding societal demand! self-fulfilling prophecy, engage!



I was an undergrad at UW/Madison. 'nuf said.

/ Didn't get my doctorate there, though.
 
2011-09-02 01:24:18 PM
FTFA: "The decision, five years in the making, centered around..."

You can't center around something, journ-fail-ist. You can revolve around it or center on it, but you cannot center around something.

/dip-shiat writers piss me off
 
2011-09-02 01:24:56 PM

pute kisses like a man: gameshowhost: zetar: Never took the SAT or ACT.

/ Have a PhD from a Big 10 University.
// Sure had to take, and get a great score on the GREs, though.

Many years ago, every h.s. kid graduating in the top half of his/her class was granted the right to attend the U. of WI, SATs/ACTs be damned. I dunno if it even applies any more... if it does, it's likely only top 10% or something.... Madison used to serve more like 40k undergrads and they cut it way back to about 30k.

/no wonder we put out top students in the nation, decade after decade
//that has since declined, since we've gone to tax-slashing mode
/yay for underfunding societal demand! self-fulfilling prophecy, engage!

Texas does the same thing. top 10% of your school, guaranteed admission to a state university.


Yeah, a bunch of states do, AFAIK.

But my point was that WI had a superior system in the past.

Not that you didn't have a point. =P
 
2011-09-02 01:28:36 PM
As someone who went to DePaul I don't think they cared in the early 2000s. Some of the people I saw would have difficulty scoring potato.
 
2011-09-02 01:29:58 PM

dragonchild: CPT Ethanolic: SATs have been showing for years to have little correlation with success in college.

High scores and success, perhaps. But for an admissions program, the purpose is to correlate low scores with failure. For example, if you're not getting at least 700 on your math score, odds are you're not cut out for MIT and trying to make the case that you're just a bad test-taker is wasting their time. Someone good enough for MIT ought to get well over 700 on the math section while drunk. A big state university only cares that you're not retarded; yeah, someone with a 900 composite is probably as likely to graduate as someone with a 1200. But even state schools will think twice before admitting someone with a 550 if they have any standards.

A rough analogy would be like using the 40-yard dash for evaluating NFL prospects. It's just one way of measuring talent and means jack shiat as far as predicting if a player will succeed on the field or not. So why do they do it? Because a player with a bad 40-yard dash time will most certainly fail.


This is an amazingly good post and I'd like to thank you for making it.

/no sarcasm
 
2011-09-02 01:32:38 PM
Missouri has the opposite problem.
 
2011-09-02 01:34:17 PM

TheOther: UofC -startling

DePope's - meh

Misleading headline - fark you, subby. -1


So subby confused you by saying "Chicago university", which implies a university in Chicago and not the University of Chicago nor a hypothetical, nonexistent Chicago University?

Okay then.

/Not subby
 
2011-09-02 01:35:36 PM

CPT Ethanolic: SATs have been showing for years to have little correlation with success in college. It's a scam - a lot of people make a lot of money off them.


It isn't to judge how well you would do in college, it's to judge your inherent intelligence. Grades in both high school and college are artificially inflated by studying, standardized tests remove that variable.

Good grades lousy test scores? Ok, this kid works his ass off but isn't that bright to begin with, his upside is limited.

Lousy grades but good test scores? Ok, this kid is smart as hell but he's lazy and will likely not reach his potential.
 
2011-09-02 01:37:48 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: Grades in both high school and college are artificially inflated by studying, standardized tests remove that variable.


Because nobody studies for the SAT or ACT....
 
2011-09-02 01:39:11 PM

zetar: I was an undergrad at UW/Madison. 'nuf said.


*profile*

You aren't, by any chance, related to Leo and Ben Sidran, are you? I see that you have muzikal skilz as well.
 
2011-09-02 01:41:22 PM
*twitch twitch* criterION, subby. criterion.
 
2011-09-02 01:51:03 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: It isn't to judge how well you would do in college, it's to judge your inherent intelligence.


If that's true, then coaching and test prep classes shouldn't raise people's scores, because your inherent .intelligence doesn't change.
 
2011-09-02 01:51:57 PM
Continuing the higher education trend: Costs go up and value goes down.

It's already gotten to the point where, when I'm looking at someone's resume, unless their education section lists an Ivy League school or a GREAT state school, it doesn't even matter if they list a college education. "Graduated from Xxxx College" tells me nothing about how smart they are, what their abilities are, or whether they know anything at all.
 
2011-09-02 01:52:36 PM

dragonchild: High scores and success, perhaps. But for an admissions program, the purpose is to correlate low scores with failure. For example, if you're not getting at least 700 on your math score, odds are you're not cut out for MIT and trying to make the case that you're just a bad test-taker is wasting their time. Someone good enough for MIT ought to get well over 700 on the math section while drunk. A big state university only cares that you're not retarded; yeah, someone with a 900 composite is probably as likely to graduate as someone with a 1200. But even state schools will think twice before admitting someone with a 550 if they have any standards.

A rough analogy would be like using the 40-yard dash for evaluating NFL prospects. It's just one way of measuring talent and means jack shiat as far as predicting if a player will succeed on the field or not. So why do they do it? Because a player with a bad 40-yard dash time will most certainly fail.


You've already been copied and praised, but I just wanted to double it. Well summarized, and often missed in the 'SATs and ACTs dont matter' threads.
 
2011-09-02 01:53:00 PM

pute kisses like a man: gameshowhost: zetar: Never took the SAT or ACT.

/ Have a PhD from a Big 10 University.
// Sure had to take, and get a great score on the GREs, though.

Many years ago, every h.s. kid graduating in the top half of his/her class was granted the right to attend the U. of WI, SATs/ACTs be damned. I dunno if it even applies any more... if it does, it's likely only top 10% or something.... Madison used to serve more like 40k undergrads and they cut it way back to about 30k.

/no wonder we put out top students in the nation, decade after decade
//that has since declined, since we've gone to tax-slashing mode
/yay for underfunding societal demand! self-fulfilling prophecy, engage!

Texas does the same thing. top 10% of your school, guaranteed admission to a state university.


And how many of those top 10%'ers want to go to UT in Austin? Hint: all of them. That's why it doesn't really work. Want to go to UT? Sure, go to UT Pan Am until someone drops out of UT Austin and makes an opening for you.
 
2011-09-02 01:54:33 PM

Marine1: Missouri has the opposite problem.


Its overly required? I dont remember heh.
 
2011-09-02 01:55:59 PM

gameshowhost: zetar: I was an undergrad at UW/Madison. 'nuf said.

*profile*

You aren't, by any chance, related to Leo and Ben Sidran, are you? I see that you have muzikal skilz as well.



Curiously there was an older kid named Ben who slept in the upper bunk bed when I was growing up. I also remember jamming with a nephew named Leo who was a pretty decent drummer.

/ Of course, Ben and Leo are very common names in Wisconsin.
 
2011-09-02 01:57:59 PM

RexTalionis: Meh. SAT score is just a number and only is a measure of how well you do on the SATs.


Meh, your grades are only letters and only measure whether or not you get credit for the class.

/numbers
//they has no meaning
 
2011-09-02 01:59:58 PM

Skraeling: Marine1: Missouri has the opposite problem.

Its overly required? I dont remember heh.


Shiat-ton of people wanting to go with tuition being raised and no place to put them.

But dammit, we'll pay Frank Haith.

/Fire Alden.
 
2011-09-02 02:00:54 PM
FTA: But in a decade's worth of data, ACT and SAT scores had little correlation with how DePaul's students performed in the classroom when they got on campus, Cortes said


Because those "studies" don't track what coursework the college students are doing, only their gpa's and degree status. So all the low scoring SAT people majoring in Media Studies, and Art History, are getting 3.8 gpa's, while the high scoring SAT people are majoring in engineering and sciences getting a 3.4gpa.

Voila! - the extremely dubious conclusion that SAT performance has nothing to do with college performance.
 
2011-09-02 02:02:40 PM

girhen: ETS is a private company with a monopoly on these tests. ETS makes a butt ton of money off these tests and selling the answers to them. What's great is that, despite their claims, you can study for these tests, and a good $1000 course almost assures you a top score.


You don't even need a class. All I did to study for the tests (SAT, then GRE) was take the practice exams over and over again. Eventually the patterns and similarities become clear & one gets pretty good at the test. I found it very easy to raise my score significantly through simple repetition. It's boring, but highly effective.
 
2011-09-02 02:03:33 PM
"Diverse" used to be code for "African" or "black." Now it means "too uneducated to complete on merit against Asians, Hispanics and whites." If a person weren't so diverse they might be smart enough to realize this sort of thing is pretty insulting.
 
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