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(NYPost)   NYC restaurant customers, cork that whine about the 20 percent automatic gratuity fees that you're being charged, ya cheap bastards   (nypost.com) divider line 230
    More: Obvious, NYC, God Forbid, fees  
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10256 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Aug 2011 at 3:52 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-08-31 01:46:56 PM
So what are the odds that Steve Cuozzo, the author of that finely written piece of nonsense, was a waiter before he got the NYPost gig?
 
2011-08-31 01:59:20 PM

mr_a: So what are the odds that Steve Cuozzo, the author of that finely written piece of nonsense, was a waiter before he got the NYPost gig?


I'm going with 100%.
 
2011-08-31 02:12:39 PM

mr_a: So what are the odds that Steve Cuozzo, the author of that finely written piece of nonsense, was a waiter before he got the NYPost gig?


Yep, article reeks of angry-ex-waiter rant.
 
wee [TotalFark]
2011-08-31 02:12:44 PM

mfsteve: mr_a: So what are the odds that Steve Cuozzo, the author of that finely written piece of nonsense, was a waiter before he got the NYPost gig?

I'm going with 100%.


He does seem to toe the "You must always tip, regardless of how bad the service was" party line like a formal professional. He also seems to use that as the fulcrum of his reasoning. With automatic tips, server performance is a non-issue.
 
2011-08-31 02:13:02 PM
I'm not saying that people shouldn't tip but when a tip is automatically added regardless of service, it is no longer a tip, it's a fee. And when the fee is tacked on like that where is the incentive to provide good service?
 
2011-08-31 02:17:49 PM
He does have a point concerning European countries and how they treat their waitstaff compared to a lot of places in the U.S.

/oh, and here's the story he's alluding to Link
 
wee [TotalFark]
2011-08-31 02:21:07 PM

AlwaysRightBoy: He does have a point concerning European countries and how they treat their waitstaff compared to a lot of places in the U.S.


It's almost as if Europeans and Americans are from different cultures. We start requiring tips and Bingo! Suddenly the playing field is totally level.
 
2011-08-31 02:23:45 PM
People who don't tip under any circumstances (and those who leave bible tracts instead of cash) should simply not go out to eat.
 
2011-08-31 02:26:12 PM
I don't tip

img.villagephotos.com

I overtip
 
2011-08-31 02:27:49 PM

wee: mfsteve: mr_a: So what are the odds that Steve Cuozzo, the author of that finely written piece of nonsense, was a waiter before he got the NYPost gig?

I'm going with 100%.

He does seem to toe the "You must always tip, regardless of how bad the service was" party line like a formal professional. He also seems to use that as the fulcrum of his reasoning. With automatic tips, server performance is a non-issue.


Agreed. I tip well as a rule because I understand it is what the waiter/ess is working for. Be nice to me and I toss you good coin for your effort. This is open season for bad service.
 
2011-08-31 02:30:43 PM

wee: AlwaysRightBoy: He does have a point concerning European countries and how they treat their waitstaff compared to a lot of places in the U.S.

It's almost as if Europeans and Americans are from different cultures. We start requiring tips and Bingo! Suddenly the playing field is totally level.


The European playing field concerning waitstaff = mostly career professionals. I seems our playing consists of people not wanting the job in the first place. There are exceptions at many fine dining places in the U.S.
 
wee [TotalFark]
2011-08-31 02:43:02 PM

mfsteve: Agreed. I tip well as a rule because I understand it is what the waiter/ess is working for. Be nice to me and I toss you good coin for your effort. This is open season for bad service.


I have worked in food service and depended on tips. I tip more often than not. And if I don't (or tip low), I tell a manager why. Maybe it's not the waiter's fault, but since I had no interaction with the cook or anyone else in the chain from the kitchen to the table, that's who gets to find out about it. Whether that info trickles back down or not, I don't know. I just have to hope that it does. How else could they fix a problem?

But I'm not paying for crappy service in any case. That's nuts.

I recall times I farked up and got stiffed, and I knew why. And sometimes I got stiffed regardless of what I did or didn't do. OK, some people are assholes. Wow, there's a newsflash. Deal with it and move on. I'm honestly not sure what my motivation level would be like if I knew I was getting 20% regardless. I do recall trying to work pretty hard to make sure people were happy...
 
2011-08-31 02:54:02 PM

wee: mfsteve: Agreed. I tip well as a rule because I understand it is what the waiter/ess is working for. Be nice to me and I toss you good coin for your effort. This is open season for bad service.

I have worked in food service and depended on tips. I tip more often than not. And if I don't (or tip low), I tell a manager why. Maybe it's not the waiter's fault, but since I had no interaction with the cook or anyone else in the chain from the kitchen to the table, that's who gets to find out about it. Whether that info trickles back down or not, I don't know. I just have to hope that it does. How else could they fix a problem?

But I'm not paying for crappy service in any case. That's nuts.

I recall times I farked up and got stiffed, and I knew why. And sometimes I got stiffed regardless of what I did or didn't do. OK, some people are assholes. Wow, there's a newsflash. Deal with it and move on. I'm honestly not sure what my motivation level would be like if I knew I was getting 20% regardless. I do recall trying to work pretty hard to make sure people were happy...


When I used to work in restaurants (I worked in both kitchens and waitstaff), if I wasn't motivated it would show and the restaurant would probably hire someone with a little more professionalism.

/I do see your point though about getting stiffed for something you had no control of
 
2011-08-31 03:03:00 PM

jchic: I'm not saying that people shouldn't tip but when a tip is automatically added regardless of service, it is no longer a tip, it's a fee. And when the fee is tacked on like that where is the incentive to provide good service?


I've lived in and traveled to many countries where tipping is not only not expected, it's actually insulting. I have found the quality of service in most of these places to be generally rather high. Maybe the waitstaff doesn't fawn over infants or give you cloyingly sweet smiles and call you dearie, but service has been professional and prompt and that's just how it is.

Frankly, it makes the institution of tipping seem antiquated, unnecessary and burdensome.
 
2011-08-31 03:08:17 PM
"I spit in your food and you're giving me a 20% tip. Deal with it"
 
2011-08-31 03:08:17 PM
I think I've tipped less than 15% once in the past several years. 20% is my standard, 15% for bad service, less than 15% for outright rude, speak to the manager, service.

wee: nd if I don't (or tip low), I tell a manager why. Maybe it's not the waiter's fault, but since I had no interaction with the cook or anyone else in the chain from the kitchen to the table, that's who gets to find out about it.


Well, you're a dick. You'd tip a waiter badly for things he had no control over? You speak to a manger and get free shiat when your food is bad, and you never come back.

I use "never come back" and "bad yelp reviews" a lot more than bad tipping, because that's going to effect the place a LOT more than me stiffing a waiter.
 
2011-08-31 03:10:16 PM

TwistedIvory: jchic: I'm not saying that people shouldn't tip but when a tip is automatically added regardless of service, it is no longer a tip, it's a fee. And when the fee is tacked on like that where is the incentive to provide good service?

I've lived in and traveled to many countries where tipping is not only not expected, it's actually insulting. I have found the quality of service in most of these places to be generally rather high. Maybe the waitstaff doesn't fawn over infants or give you cloyingly sweet smiles and call you dearie, but service has been professional and prompt and that's just how it is.

Frankly, it makes the institution of tipping seem antiquated, unnecessary and burdensome.


It's quite likely that the waitstaff in those countries are not paid minimum wage. If waitstaff in the US made a living wage, customers might not be expected to subsidize them.
 
2011-08-31 03:12:15 PM

mr_a: So what are the odds that Steve Cuozzo, the author of that finely written piece of nonsense, was a waiter before he got the NYPost gig?

Before

? You think the NYPost pays for articles?
*laughinggirls.jpg*

As someone who has previously waited tables: automatic gratuity on parties of 6-8 or more are somewhat understandable. That's a huge chunk of your time and energy you're going to have to put toward one set of customers. A 10-top stiffing you on a tip is not a 2-top; you're not going to turn it over with a quickness, and you basically got zero wages for 1+ man-hours of labor.

That said, 20%? Ludicrous. Even with a 15-18% automatic gratuity, you've removed nearly all incentive for customers to throw in any additional tip for excellent service. At, say, 10% automatic gratuity, it's far more likely they'll throw in an extra few bucks if you're busting ass, and the server's not being rewarded for giving mediocre service.
 
2011-08-31 03:17:34 PM
I've never not tipped my server. With the server it's easy to say, "We're not seeing enough of you" or, "We're looking for slow service tonight please" and that seems to fix everything. Managers and food quality are different issues. I would argue that I go to a restaurant more for the wait staff than the food. And I could seriously live without ever seeing another restaurant manager. "Is the food good?" Yes, now go the hell away and let my waiter-type person take care off me you dick-head.

We (the wife and me) got into a pissing match with a manger not that long ago. He decided that he was going to rearrange some tables and did so by dragging them over the tile floor for 20 minutes as we ate. After I tipped my waiter I approached him and thanked him for fornicating my experience. He asked me to leave. Rudeness was his master quality. We did and we will never go back. Food was good, service was good, manager was an ass. Place is hurting and the owners can't figure out why.

Ya, ya.... CSB.
 
2011-08-31 03:32:36 PM

FloydA: It's quite likely that the waitstaff in those countries are not paid minimum wage. If waitstaff in the US made a living wage, customers might not be expected to subsidize them.


Correct. This is the outcome I support.
 
2011-08-31 03:56:01 PM
FTFA: "In most European and some Asian countries, built-in tips are the norm. It's why service abroad is more professional than in the US"

This must be a different Europe than the one I've visited on numerous occasions. However, I will admit I am not familiar with the quality of service in NYC, so it's possible the above statement is true.
 
2011-08-31 03:56:32 PM

TwistedIvory: FloydA: It's quite likely that the waitstaff in those countries are not paid minimum wage. If waitstaff in the US made a living wage, customers might not be expected to subsidize them.

Correct. This is the outcome I support.


Sound sounds very anti-business. Why do you hate America?
 
2011-08-31 03:57:04 PM

what_now: Well, you're a dick. You'd tip a waiter badly for things he had no control over? You speak to a manger and get free shiat when your food is bad, and you never come back.


It's common for the waiters to share the tips with the busboys and the cooks. So shorting the waiter's tip for crappy food is reasonable.
 
2011-08-31 03:57:24 PM
I recall the first time I saw an auto-gratuity added to the bill-the first really upscale French place I interned at added 27%-but there was an army of staff to cater to you and they all got a cut.
 
2011-08-31 03:57:29 PM

what_now: I think I've tipped less than 15% once in the past several years. 20% is my standard, 15% for bad service, less than 15% for outright rude, speak to the manager, service.

wee: nd if I don't (or tip low), I tell a manager why. Maybe it's not the waiter's fault, but since I had no interaction with the cook or anyone else in the chain from the kitchen to the table, that's who gets to find out about it.

Well, you're a dick. You'd tip a waiter badly for things he had no control over? You speak to a manger and get free shiat when your food is bad, and you never come back.

I use "never come back" and "bad yelp reviews" a lot more than bad tipping, because that's going to effect the place a LOT more than me stiffing a waiter.


Then the resturaunt should allow every employee to share the tips - the guys who wash silverware, the cooks, etc. I'm not tipping well if I get bad food. The waiter at least can scold the cook afterward for getting a bad tip.
 
2011-08-31 03:57:32 PM
In most European and some Asian countries, built-in tips are the norm

Um, no. The waitstaff is paid more and there is no tipping. There's a difference.
 
2011-08-31 03:58:43 PM

TwistedIvory: FloydA: It's quite likely that the waitstaff in those countries are not paid minimum wage. If waitstaff in the US made a living wage, customers might not be expected to subsidize them.

Correct. This is the outcome I support.


Maybe they should organize and fight to over turn the current food service wages.
 
2011-08-31 04:00:58 PM
Restaurants that do this should just raise the price of everything 20% and pay their wait-staff a decent wage.
 
2011-08-31 04:03:28 PM

dj_bigbird: In most European and some Asian countries, built-in tips are the norm

Um, no. The waitstaff is paid more and there is no tipping. There's a difference.


I actually prefer the north american model to this. I mean with the tipping model if the service is bad or really slow, then I tip 10% or less and basically get a discount on my meal.
 
2011-08-31 04:03:31 PM

jchic: I'm not saying that people shouldn't tip but when a tip is automatically added regardless of service, it is no longer a tip, it's a fee. And when the fee is tacked on like that where is the incentive to provide good service?


1) pride in your work
2) keeping your job
3) selling more product (thereby increasing your tip)

I travel to places like Australia and Belgium where a tip is not generally expected. The service in those countries is at least as good as places like Canada and the US which expect a voluntary 15%-20% tip for good service.
 
2011-08-31 04:03:53 PM

BradleyUffner: Restaurants that do this should just raise the price of everything 20% and pay their wait-staff a decent wage.


a 20% bump in prices would end up closing most places...especially in a bad economy. Eating out ia about the first thing to get cut when people are feeling the pinch.
 
2011-08-31 04:04:10 PM
For good service, I tip well. For average service, I tip to whatever rounds out to ~15-25% of the food and drinks. For bad service, you get nothing except a note on the bill as to why you got nothing.

For example...

Tip: Next time, don't ignore your customer.

If the food is bad, but the wait staff is good, I'll usually leave cash with the following

Tip: Please keep the cash, and tell the kitchen that I stiffed you.

You are not entitled to a tip. You are entitled to your wages. Tips are a reward for ensuring I have an enjoyable experience.
 
2011-08-31 04:04:42 PM
Tips should be abolished. Especially when they become mandatory. Pay a wage like any other job, expect performance just like any other job.
 
2011-08-31 04:05:19 PM
if you're tipping less than 20% for average service in NYC, yer a cheap farker
 
2011-08-31 04:05:32 PM

TwistedIvory: jchic: I'm not saying that people shouldn't tip but when a tip is automatically added regardless of service, it is no longer a tip, it's a fee. And when the fee is tacked on like that where is the incentive to provide good service?

I've lived in and traveled to many countries where tipping is not only not expected, it's actually insulting. I have found the quality of service in most of these places to be generally rather high. Maybe the waitstaff doesn't fawn over infants or give you cloyingly sweet smiles and call you dearie, but service has been professional and prompt and that's just how it is.

Frankly, it makes the institution of tipping seem antiquated, unnecessary and burdensome.


I've found this also. Of tipped in places that didn't understand what I was doing and asked me why I was leaving money at the bar.
 
2011-08-31 04:06:15 PM
This logic confuses me:

a mandatory service charge democratizes the restaurant experience for both customers and staff. Waiters and sommeliers don't have to "up-sell" pricier choices in hopes of pocketing bigger bucks.

A mandatory 20% charge is still a percentage, not a flat-fee....
 
2011-08-31 04:06:59 PM

dj_bigbird: In most European and some Asian countries, built-in tips are the norm

Um, no. The waitstaff is paid more and there is no tipping. There's a difference.


Check again. Usually in Europe it says on the bill: Service included in local language. That means you don't have to tip unless you really want to.
 
2011-08-31 04:07:07 PM

mrshowrules: TwistedIvory: jchic: I'm not saying that people shouldn't tip but when a tip is automatically added regardless of service, it is no longer a tip, it's a fee. And when the fee is tacked on like that where is the incentive to provide good service?

I've lived in and traveled to many countries where tipping is not only not expected, it's actually insulting. I have found the quality of service in most of these places to be generally rather high. Maybe the waitstaff doesn't fawn over infants or give you cloyingly sweet smiles and call you dearie, but service has been professional and prompt and that's just how it is.

Frankly, it makes the institution of tipping seem antiquated, unnecessary and burdensome.

I've found this also. Of tipped in places that didn't understand what I was doing and asked me why I was leaving money at the bar.


best way to get cheap drinks at your local?
 
2011-08-31 04:07:22 PM
Having travelled to the UK and to Ireland, I did eat at places where "service" was included. It wasn't 20%, though. I remember when 15% was considered generous. Makes me wonder when 30% will become the norm.
 
2011-08-31 04:08:48 PM
here's a tip. pay your staff a living wage and adjust the price of your food to compensate. American's hate paying extra. hell, if you had a "no tips required" line on your receipt, people would flock to your restaurant.
 
2011-08-31 04:09:47 PM
service in the states is usually better than abroad, because there are actually enough waiters/waitresses to accommodate the guests.
 
wee [TotalFark]
2011-08-31 04:09:56 PM

what_now: Well, you're a dick. You'd tip a waiter badly for things he had no control over? You speak to a manger and get free shiat when your food is bad, and you never come back.

I use "never come back" and "bad yelp reviews" a lot more than bad tipping, because that's going to effect the place a LOT more than me stiffing a waiter.


I use those things too. Never did get food free, or bother with comping a meal, since that's not what I was after. And really when it comes down to it, I have no urge to take money out of the restaurant's pocket. I see absolutely nothing wrong in paying for what I receive, be it goods or services. I won't, however, pay for something I never got. It's odd that you would, i think.

If the waiter's obviously terrible, some of it could very well be the kitchen's fault. I have no way to know how much, though. If the server is on the ball and let's us know what's going on, then of course I'm tipping. If it's a "30 minutes until we get menus" type deal, I'm either leaving or leaving a crappy tip, and I let the manager know why in either case. Usually I blow it off if service is merely "slow", we get he wrong order, whatever. But when you don't see your server for 20 minutes in an empty restaurant and he comes back with your appetizers AND the meal all at once, smelling of cigarettes, you and I both know exactly what was going on there. And it wasn't the kitchen's fault. But I have to let the manager know that Mr. Shiatbreak the Waiter did a bad job. Like I said, how else can he correct the problem if people don't tell him there's one?

Servers are paid to serve things. I'm not paying them to not do that. If that makes me a dick, so be it.
 
2011-08-31 04:11:06 PM
If you have to automatically include gratuity, it's time to raise prices and pay the staff a living wage.
 
2011-08-31 04:11:42 PM

skullkrusher: if you're tipping less than 20% for average service in NYC, yer a cheap farker


That depends. I'll tip a 100% for a small tab with excellent service. At a bar, I will give a huge tip for my first beer. Make my wait for my second one, and you won't get a cent.

When I have my kids, I'll will tip more because they make such a bloody mess and spectacle of themselves.

It all varies. If I eat a good meal with a $50 bottle of wine or a regular meal with a $20 bottle of wine, why would I tip more or less for openning a that wine. Is it harder to pour a $50 bottle of wine. My tip is how much extra service we cause, trips to the table, doggie bags etc...

My base amount is 15%. I give 10% for crappy service (very rare). I give up to 25% for excellent service.
 
2011-08-31 04:12:38 PM

what_now: I use "never come back" and "bad yelp reviews" a lot more than bad tipping, because that's going to effect the place a LOT more than me stiffing a waiter.


Go back and check your bad Yelp reviews. Many appear to vanish if the business is a paying Yelp customer. Conversely, many positive reviews seem to vanish if they're not. Yelp claims it's because their automatic system is on the hunt for phony reviews and and removes them if found. Right.
 
2011-08-31 04:13:03 PM

docbenspock: here's a tip. pay your staff a living wage and adjust the price of your food to compensate. American's hate paying extra. hell, if you had a "no tips required" line on your receipt, people would flock to your restaurant.


Just thinking about the last few times I have had bad service, here are some tips for waiters and waitresses, don't be slow and you will get a good tip. Don't make people wait 10 minutes to get their bill or make them ask three times for a glass of water. It is not rocket science, but if you can't figure simple things like that maybe you shouldn't be in the food service industry and bad tips will be the hint you need to change to a different career.
 
2011-08-31 04:14:25 PM
If you automatically add in the tip, do not expect one penny more from me. I typically tip between 25-30%, but if you don't trust that I'm going to leave you a tip, fark you, that's all you get.

/couldn't believe when an auto-tip was added for steamed crabs for just my wife and I earlier this summer.
 
2011-08-31 04:15:41 PM

Rootus: Tips should be abolished. Especially when they become mandatory. Pay a wage like any other job, expect performance just like any other job.


Many jobs have commissions/bonus based on sales. I have no problem with the automatic tip idea. Ideally, you should just pay the prices in the menu this would be better than a voluntary one.
 
2011-08-31 04:15:51 PM
cork sucking fargon ice holes! Some in a batch!
 
2011-08-31 04:18:25 PM
why is this all about tipping

an automatic 20% added to your bill is not a tip, it's a fee.
 
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