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(Reuters)   Nazis of the Corn   (reuters.com) divider line 127
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17448 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Sep 2003 at 5:02 PM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



127 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2003-09-15 11:30:53 AM
Well I guess the dumbasses who did this got what they wanted... I mean, Reuters is a pretty big news source isn't it ?
 
2003-09-15 11:51:12 AM
Those funny U.F.O. Aliens, what will they do next?
 
2003-09-15 12:27:10 PM
The hooks on the cross actually pointed in the opposite direction to those on the swastika used by Adolf Hitler's Nazi party but it was still being treated as an illegal symbol.

So it wasn't a Nazi swastika after all. Ah Germany, so afraid of their past they'll destroy a peace sign.
 
2003-09-15 12:31:26 PM
Those displaying Nazi symbols or using the stiff-armed Hitler salute can face up to three years in prison in Germany.

 
2003-09-15 12:49:27 PM
Malaki Hess?
 
2003-09-15 01:17:23 PM
What about freedom of speach?
 
2003-09-15 02:41:03 PM
What about freedom of speach?

Germany has freedom of speech, just like us, with the exception being anything pro-Nazi.
If I were a German citizen, I'd have no problem with Nazism being illegal.
 
2003-09-15 04:58:47 PM
"I hate Illinois Nazis."
 
2003-09-15 05:04:22 PM
Dyslexic alien Nazis, apparently.
 
2003-09-15 05:05:24 PM
In most civilized countries, Ninja, freedom of speech excludes hate literature or signage.
 
2003-09-15 05:06:01 PM
So eithe we're dealing with pagans trampling an ancient Sanskrit good luck charm into a field or a bunch of retard Nazis who can't tell left from right.

Either way, I'd hire some locals with shotguns to protect my field. I'm sure the farmer is might pissed off.
 
2003-09-15 05:06:23 PM
What about freedom of speech?

societal order trumps freedoms.

"peace order and good government" uber "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
 
2003-09-15 05:06:33 PM
Haha, the NeoNazis can't even make the symbol correctly. That's what happens when your father's sister is your mother.
 
2003-09-15 05:06:57 PM
Of course freedom of speech should only apply to the popular view point!
 
2003-09-15 05:07:41 PM
"He Who Goosesteps Behind The Rows"
 
2003-09-15 05:07:58 PM
Those wacky prankster nazis!
 
2003-09-15 05:09:31 PM
Good thing I read the article. I thought it was going to be about people that protest genetically engineered crops.
 
2003-09-15 05:10:05 PM
This is from a contest I did for Worth1000, and seems to fit the headline perfectly!

 
2003-09-15 05:10:09 PM


Planted by the hitler youth in the black forest in the late 30s/early 40s.

Much harder to stamp around and crush the surrounding trees...
 
2003-09-15 05:10:18 PM
Why do NaziSkinheads wear red suspenders anyway?
THEY DONT HAVE TO TELL YOU!!!
 
2003-09-15 05:10:27 PM
How else are you supposed to scare Jewish corn farmers?
 
2003-09-15 05:10:31 PM
Kooky aliens.

shader, you make a good point, however, I believe it's totally understandable for the German government to be paranoid of allowing the swastika to be displayed anywhere. Just because you CAN say something, doesn't mean it should be said.
 
2003-09-15 05:10:37 PM
Those Germans! First the chainsaw/finger story, now the backwards ass nazi hicks! We need a German edition of The Jerry Springer show.
 
2003-09-15 05:12:28 PM
Vociferocicuss


Are you makin' some kind of racial slur by using "Jerry" and talking about Germans?

;)
 
2003-09-15 05:13:34 PM
Were the hooks at perfect right angles?

STACKENBLACHEN!
 
2003-09-15 05:14:02 PM
I should have said Kraut.
 
2003-09-15 05:14:28 PM
here's a good read on the meaning of the actual 'reverse swastika'
clickie
 
2003-09-15 05:14:44 PM
however, I believe it's totally understandable for the German government to be paranoid of allowing the swastika to be displayed anywhere.

Understandable, yes. Commendable, no.
 
2003-09-15 05:16:57 PM
Loved the old East German slant. Those West Germans are much to programmed, I mean civilized to have done it.

Iowa uber alles.
 
2003-09-15 05:16:58 PM
From 1907 from brainmeats's link -



What a difference three decades and change makes.
 
2003-09-15 05:17:06 PM
swastikas:germans as flag-burning:americans

limits of free speech.

discuss.
 
2003-09-15 05:17:27 PM
The German government stamping out any Nazi references is stupid; it happened, get over it. They even censor videogames for Nazism, Return to Castle Wolfenstein (A WW2 based FPS) had to be completely changed and any swastikas removed from the game in Germany.

Farking Deutsche ...
 
2003-09-15 05:18:07 PM
"Freedom of speech is words that they will bend
Freedom with their exception"

/From the good ole days of Metallica before they joined the Nazi party
 
2003-09-15 05:18:19 PM
"peace order and good government" uber "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

Uh. I'll take life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness please.

Oh, I have it already. Cool.

I'd rather have the promise of the pursuit of happiness than a promise of happiness. Those promising happiness usually do nothing but perpetuate sorrow.
 
2003-09-15 05:19:00 PM
At least they make good beer and cars.
 
2003-09-15 05:19:24 PM
The reason you have freedom of speech, of course, is so that speech you don't like can still be heard.
 
2003-09-15 05:19:54 PM
Douche Bag = Illinois Nazis

Deutsche Bag = Former EastGerman Nazis
 
das
2003-09-15 05:20:02 PM
This is why we need the Space Shuttle......to fight alien space Nazis......


/HEIL E.T.
 
2003-09-15 05:22:12 PM
i don't see the point why displaying a symbol of a repressive regimen propagandizing the absence of free speech should be covered by free speech.
this doesn't have to do with "popular viewpoints" but nothing more than a criminal attitude. or does someone here want to tell me that some farking nazi is a socially and politically misunderstood and suppressed person?
 
2003-09-15 05:22:49 PM
Those trees were cool,though
 
2003-09-15 05:23:21 PM
The reason you have freedom of speech, of course, is so that speech you don't like can still be heard.

I agree completely, CamperBob, 'cept fo most people, in particular Germans, this issue goes a little bit beyond simple dislike.
 
2003-09-15 05:23:49 PM
A real Nazi would have gotten it right. Probably a plot by the French to monopolize Empire Europe.
 
2003-09-15 05:24:08 PM
Now is the time when we danze!
 
2003-09-15 05:24:24 PM
Did anyone else think of the movie Contact when they read the headline? The book was better of course : )
 
2003-09-15 05:25:29 PM
Those displaying Nazi symbols or using the stiff-armed Hitler salute can face up to three years in prison in Germany

hmmm i guess you have to be careful the way you flag down a taxi... eh?
 
rka
2003-09-15 05:25:48 PM

First they came for the Nazis, but I said nothing, because I wasn't a Nazi...

And so on.

 
2003-09-15 05:26:33 PM
Kernal Klink?
 
2003-09-15 05:26:45 PM
Reminds me of a great joke told by Willie Nelson...

What was the last thing that Elvis said?
Corn?

Thankya folks. Nazi's are bad, but corn is funny. Actually it's more corny than funny, but... nevermind.
 
2003-09-15 05:28:19 PM
Dyslexic Vegans.


Now I'm butchering the Billy Thorpe's "Children of the Sun" in my head. "Children of the Corn"....
 
2003-09-15 05:28:43 PM
Nazis of the Corn
There's a hitler in the rows
His fame is goostepping down the road.
Take a Sudetan holiday
Let your children heil

/The Doors
 
2003-09-15 05:29:12 PM

Ahh, if only Basil Fawlty had a Fark account ...


 
2003-09-15 05:29:51 PM

Dno't be sputid, be a smrtay! Cmoe and jion the Nzai praty!

/has, subtly, nothing

 
2003-09-15 05:32:02 PM

Yes LegolasGreenleaf, that was the first thing that came to my mind.

 
2003-09-15 05:32:16 PM
It's Springtime for Hitler in Germany....

*Humming a tune*
 
2003-09-15 05:33:35 PM


Nazis arent funny.
 
2003-09-15 05:34:15 PM
Maybe Jonathan Davis did it! Possibly a new KORN album? Hmmmm
 
2003-09-15 05:35:50 PM
Raise your voice
Raise your bier
Every hotsy totsy nazi stand and cheer.
 
2003-09-15 05:38:50 PM

"Winter, for Poland, and Fraaaance..."

I personally love "Keep It Gay"..

 
2003-09-15 05:39:52 PM
Random thought - I wonder if Germany allows the film or theatrical version of The Producers to be shown.

Just curious.
 
2003-09-15 05:41:41 PM
edgesofsanity

I'm not excusing it, but here in America, we restrict freedom of speech all the time. Public nudity will get you arrested. Schools have dress codes. You can't curse someone out on prime time TV. Not commendable, no. People should be able to express themselves how they wish. But I can understand and accept the reasoning for revoking certain images, especially where hate speech is involved.

I'm not one to coddle people or shelter the little children and masses from being "offended", but most people are very irresponsible with their freedom of speech. Again, just because you have the right to say anything, doesn't mean you should say just anything. All laws, rights, and rules aside, there is an underlying principle in civilized society that we should all be respectful of each other and treat each other with dignity and, at the very least, politeness. I'm all for hate speech, if it's what someone truly believes, but words can lead to actions, and if a government were to allow anything of that sort to catch on in the mainstream, it could have some very ugly side effects.

Example: I dislike Eminem. I give himcredit for working the system, but I dislike his style, both because of personal taste, and because I think it's irresponsible, when he thinks of who his audience might be. I wouldn't advocate the government shutting him up, but if he started talking about killing Jews, I'd expect something to be done, either in the market, or by his record label. All actions should have consequences of some kind, and just because you can say what you want doesn't mean there won't be some sort of consequence. Especially because their should be.
 
2003-09-15 05:44:10 PM
Random thought - I wonder if Germany allows the film or theatrical version of The Producers to be shown.

you can get the DVD - amazon.de
 
2003-09-15 05:47:02 PM
Bob_Laublaw

According to the imdb, the film has only been shown in Germany as part of a Jewish film festival because the nazi imagery has made it illegal to show to mainstream german audiences.

 
2003-09-15 05:47:53 PM
Which once again proves my theory: Germans love David Hasselhoff.
 
2003-09-15 05:49:20 PM
rasse und volk? i guess this makes the guys who did this corn"flakes"? ouch! i am going to bad pun hell.
 
2003-09-15 05:51:26 PM
What if the "stiff-armed Hitler salute" is done with the penis? I mean some women have "the hitler" above the pleasure purse. Wouldnt that be natural?
 
2003-09-15 05:53:53 PM
i thought the reverse swastika was an old hopi indian symbol?

http://www.osfa.org.uk/essay-15.htm
 
2003-09-15 05:54:36 PM
Everybody now:

CHILDREN OF THE CREAM OF THE CORN
CHILDREN OF THE CREAM OF THE CORN
CHILDREN OF THE CREAM OF THE CORN
CHILDREN OF THE CREAM OF THE CORN
 
2003-09-15 05:54:36 PM
Shouldn't it read "Extraterrestrial Nazis of the Corn?"
 
2003-09-15 05:56:47 PM
unrealious, I have an idea for my next best-selling book. Also, my first.
 
2003-09-15 05:58:36 PM
farkin nazi's. by far the dumbest bigotted group of people to ever come close to running the world into the ground, and people still think they should have done it. Kind of ironioc when they base their ideals that they are still the superior race when the forward thinking and science covered since then has proved them so blatantly wrong....now they're just making even biggers fools of themselves before.....

moral of the story is, Nazi's suck.
 
2003-09-15 06:03:03 PM
I blame the foo fighters (the nazi spacecraft, not Dave Grohl. He's not evil, just incredibly overrated).

And good show Bukharin, you can never go wrong with GWAR references. :)
 
2003-09-15 06:03:07 PM
Nazis of the Corn; good name for a retro band from
nebraska.
 
2003-09-15 06:03:52 PM
Bill & toad,

Thanks for the responses.

I don't think that Germany will ever be okay with the satirization of Nazism.

For good reason, too.
 
2003-09-15 06:14:22 PM

Don't mention the war!
 
2003-09-15 06:22:03 PM
Hreres a big swastika in the woods, planted like during the 1940s.... Check it out, kind of strange.

http://www.heathenworld.com/swastika/trees.html
 
2003-09-15 06:22:04 PM
Did anyone consider that it could have been alien Nazis? or Nazi aliens
 
2003-09-15 06:25:52 PM
Protecting political speech is the crux of the 1st Amendment. It's a bulwark against goverment thought control. It's better to allow bigots to be defeated in the arena of ideas rather than to supress political thought...no matter how vile society or goverment thinks it is.
 
2003-09-15 06:26:43 PM
Bill_Wick's_Friend : Ooops, you had already pointed that out...
 
2003-09-15 06:39:23 PM
I blame Malachai
 
2003-09-15 06:43:46 PM
FoldedSpace: Yes, I think nearly all of us here fall heavily in the "I disapprove of what you say but
will defend to the death your right to say it" camp.

Of course, if our grandparents were involved in one of the most destructive and inhumane nationalist movements in the history of civilization, we'd probably be reluctant to bring it up too.
 
2003-09-15 06:48:49 PM
FoldedSpace

I couldn't have said it better. Once the government decides that speech should be illegal because its content is unpopular, then everything is up for grabs.

Flag-burning would certainly be banned.
The Bible and other religious books would be limited to private display.
Political demonstrations would cease to serve as anything but propaganda.

Unfortunately, those countries that curtail speech based on content find themselves banning more and more content. In France, one can't insult the president. In Germany, it's the Nazis. In Sweden, it's PUL, which bans the use of another's name on the Internet without prior consent.

If speech is content-regulated, there is no free speech. That's what it comes down to.
 
2003-09-15 06:53:18 PM
I swear i was no where near germany, and anyways i wouldnt make it backasswards like who ever the morons were that did this
 
2003-09-15 06:57:06 PM
http://www.naziufos.com/

I'm tellin' ya, man - Hitler's brain is alive in a jar and being used to pilot a flying saucer.
 
2003-09-15 07:01:52 PM
 
2003-09-15 07:07:06 PM

brainmeats: You beat me to it. Oh Weel I'll just have to introduce some Farkers to Manji!


 
2003-09-15 07:08:22 PM
From Banana's link:

Coins and stamps are exempt from the ban.

Presumably this is so people who still have Nazi money and postage can use it? How often does that happen?
 
2003-09-15 07:21:01 PM
No talk of Swastikas would be complete without a link to Manwoman (maybe NSFW, definitely not safe for sanity)
 
2003-09-15 07:24:06 PM
Had to have a bit of a laugh. Wasn't it in the US that a reporter was frogmarched from a press conference this year for not asking the right questions. Freedom of speech....
 
2003-09-15 07:28:04 PM
It was only a matter of time until a "crop circle" resembling the swastika appeared somewhere.
 
lbn
2003-09-15 07:34:41 PM
 
2003-09-15 07:43:56 PM
Isn't the swastika also a sign for the hammer of Thor?
 
2003-09-15 07:44:23 PM
At least it wasn't a US Flag, if Nazi symbols are outlawed, imagine what the penalties for Old Glory must be - that cornfield woulda been burnt...

Acadian, thanks for making the connection for me - Marshall Mathers is a Nazi! He should be dealt with accordingly...
 
2003-09-15 07:51:02 PM
Who needs freedom of speech?
 
2003-09-15 07:54:04 PM
Fetch the shotgun boy, we got Nazis in the corn!
 
Ade
2003-09-15 08:12:21 PM
PENIS CORN! PENIS CORN! PENIS CORN! PENIS CORN! IT'S HERE!
 
2003-09-15 08:18:27 PM
You farking dipshiats (especially you brainmeats)....

It doesn't matter how the swastika is oriented: backwards, forwards, upside-down, as a double-ended dildo...it was a symbol stolen, appropriated, and propagandized by Hitler and the Nazi party to stand for hate and death of Jews. 6-farking-million who have no voice would tend to disagree that the backwards swastika is an innocuous little aberration. However it is displayed, it will ALWAYS be a symbol of hatred in the modern context of the twentieth and twenty-first centuries. So don't try to market it as benign it to anyone on this siteIm not amused by ignorance.
 
2003-09-15 08:20:42 PM

I don't know what's funnier: stories about people who are probably NAZIs fudging up their own symbol, or all the rabid anti-NAZIs such stories bring out of the wood work.

Like this:


farkin nazi's. by far the dumbest bigotted group of people to ever come close to running the world into the ground, and people still think they should have done it. Kind of ironioc when they base their ideals that they are still the superior race when the forward thinking and science covered since then has proved them so blatantly wrong....now they're just making even biggers fools of themselves before.....


The NAZIs, while bigots and pushing the bounds of what we consider "human", brought about a lot of scientific advances. Not something "the dumbest" of groups would achieve. The people who still believe in NAZI-ism generally tie it to religion (more readily). So they are no more dumb than other rabidly religious people, except they have a few more people who get all antsy in their pantsy when you give them a gun. When the NAZIs were in power there was no real conclusive evidence that some races weren't inferior, if we want to go by science and not philosophy or theology. For example, for a long time people thought asians were more animalistic because a blood type uncommon in whites and blacks is pretty common in other asians. This blood type is also common in animals, ergo conclusion above. Now we've proved it all wrong. And people still believe they are superior. Not because of faux science, but because of religion. Then again, Judaism also teaches its followers are superior: they are God's Chosen People. Christianity teaches its followers are superior: they've accepted Christ and will not burn in Hell. They are elevated above the others.

I'm not making up excuses or depending NAZIs. I'm showing that free speech goes both ways: you can't say you're for free speech and then say you don't want other views expressed. You can't make broad generalizations because they are wrong. And you can't try to outlaw that which you clearly do not understand enough to even attack intelligently. This kind of misinformation is the reason the National Socialist Party remained in power for as long as it did.
 
2003-09-15 08:25:55 PM
Then again, we have to remember what the Germans went through: they lived in fear, constantly. Their contrary was literally torn apart by every other country that could fight them. And only through good graces was it given back, with the understanding that the Germany government would NEVER let anything like the NAZI accension to power happen again. If they fail, they lose their country. That's a lot of weight on their shoulders, I can't blame them for having so many laws which we Americans consider violation of free speech rights. It's important to remember that it isn't America over there. We didn't go through what they did, and we don't face the repercussions that they do.
 
2003-09-15 08:26:41 PM
Contrary = country. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
 
2003-09-15 08:31:38 PM
just a clarification, the swatstika doesnt just stand for hating Jews and Jews werent the sole target of hate in the nazi party. Those asshats hated pretty much EVERYONE. Hell, just being from Poland put you on their shiatlist. And let's not forget gays, gypsys and blacks.....and a combination of any of those especially.
 
2003-09-15 08:40:58 PM
Oh, so now that it's a swastika everyone's so certain that it's Not aliens doing it?
 
2003-09-15 08:56:43 PM
"Those displaying Nazi symbols or using the stiff-armed Hitler salute can face up to three years in prison in Germany."

What about the little, bent-armed, "Heil myself." salute?
 
2003-09-15 09:00:32 PM
"Waaaah! The swastika killed six million Jews! 1.5 million with each one of its squared-off little arms! It's evil! Make it stop!"

I love these asshats, really I do. It's such childlike, simplistic thinking. Let's ignore the centuries of the swastika as a benign symbol - one guy using it kills a bunch of people and nobody wants to look at it anymore.

When I rule the world, I'm taking the comma as my symbol. I'll kill a few million people, wave my giant punctuation-mark flags, and generally act like a complete dick. The people will run and scream and be afraid to pause except at the end of a sentence.
 
2003-09-15 09:02:05 PM
Yup the Jews tend to get most of the spotlight and all the people betwixt germany and russia are forgotten.

Greeks, Serbs, Poles, Estonians, anyone who disagreed with the party line ect.

Stalin caused more deaths than Hitler did.

The joy of modern man and all his marvels.
 
2003-09-15 09:03:51 PM
Magic_Al_ : I think its legal so that coin collectors and stamp collector are able to put their collections on display and trade with each other.
 
2003-09-15 09:07:38 PM
Bonobo62 : When I rule the world, Im gonna use the letters A E O Y I U and soak them in my evil. So after my fall, the alhpabet will be totally useless!
 
2003-09-15 09:14:51 PM
"But, you f*ck one goat . ."
 
2003-09-15 09:17:14 PM
There were no indications so far who was responsible or how they had entered the field so as only to leave traces along the lines of the swastika and none around it.

I WANT TO BELIEVE
 
2003-09-15 09:30:32 PM
although i did post to make people aware of the people other than Jews that were also targetted for extermination, that in no way means the Jews should "have the spotlight". They were definetly the most descriminated out of all the others and had the most fatalities. This is only the tip of a much larger iceberg of jew descrimination that has happened throughout the ages, more so than blacks and perhaps even Gypsies and gays, so yeah, they are generally the most talked about.

BTW, i dont see what's so great about the Swatstika to get upset about it's now link with the Nazi party. Did you use it in your letterheads or something? It was indeed associated with a horrible thing, and i have heavy doubts that anybody that brings its effigy up means anything other than hate and not piece, it's original meaning. I think the world can dofine without the Swatstika if they want to show their devotion to piece, and there are other piece symbols to use, so they can do that instead of trying to use the one associated with the mass slaughter of ethnic minorities and a biggoted army of arians set on conquering the world.
 
2003-09-15 09:31:57 PM
when i said "piece" i meant "peace"......i hope this is realized.
 
2003-09-15 09:42:53 PM

Worst.Movie.Ever.
 
2003-09-15 10:01:03 PM
um excuse me.....

but who the fark made all these rules and consequent freedoms of anything?

and why do you all blindly adhere to these made up morals?

its because of social pressures and "norms" that we have laws....without laws we would obviously be free....any law means we are not free...
 
2003-09-15 10:13:37 PM
Banana: Let's rule the world together. But we'll only sometimes use Y. Keeps 'em on their toes.
 
2003-09-15 10:27:11 PM
SILENCE MONKEY!
 
2003-09-15 10:29:34 PM
We will not tolerate your insolence!
OBEY TOLERANCE!
 
2003-09-15 11:34:30 PM
spincut is correct. That being said, Bonobo62's post was amusing enough to make me burst out laughing, even if I disagree.

Even though I am Japanese and yes, the manji (or 'sauvastika') is used on Japanese maps to represent Buddhist temples, I still wouldn't wear one just because if I run into a Jewish person who isn't aware of what the 'sauvastika' is, only knows that it looks like a backwards 'swastika', I don't want them to feel offended or otherwise avoid me because they think I'm some kind of anti-Semite.

http://www.fushanan.per.sg/webfushananEng/Sauvastika.htm

I believe that even neo-Nazis have the right to believe what they choose and express it in certain designated arenas, but the minute they take their rhetoric beyond mere belief into something in the realm of domestic terrorism, sanctioning of fearmongering, torture, murder, harassment, incitement to riot or treason, that is where the line should be drawn for freedom of speech. When that freedom of speech turns a group of people into a bunch of rioters, or indeed, criminal thugs, that freedom of PEACEFUL assembly no longer applies, and no matter the extent of freedom of speech, it does not extend to allowing speech which incites or exhorts people to commit crimes, especially those of a violent nature. They're free to believe all they want that they're superior to me because of their skin colour, they just aren't allowed to tell their friends to beat me up because of it. :P Meanwhile, I'll be farking their moms so they can have slanty-eyed yellow-skinned half-siblings in nine months. ;)
 
2003-09-15 11:52:21 PM
Incidentally, I think one of the problems is that although the swastika was the Nazi symbol, on their flag standards which they carried in marches and processions, the swastika standard when seen from the wrong side resembles a sauvastika (since obviously, it's a backwards swastika :P). You'll notice it if you ever catch one a glimpse of some of those Nuremberg rallies on the History Channel.

And yes, I don't blame the Jews for fearing the swastika (and indeed, Nazi ideology) more than others, because although many others were also targetted for extermination, incarceration, etc., it was the Jewish people that Hitler hated above all else and blamed for the downfall of the 'Aryan' people. I think he 'only' considered blacks and other races to be inferior, not worthy of his consideration except in that they supposedly abetted the 'evil' Jew in corrupting the 'pure' 'Aryan' race. It's almost like he had an inferiority complex regarding the Jewish people, and combined with the virulent anti-Semitism popular at the time (not just in Germany, but throughout Europe and even in the Western world including Britain, the United States and Canada), served to give Hitler a scapegoat for all his (and his nation's) problems.

And indeed, the Jews have been persecuted throughout history in various pogroms way before the Third Reich came along... that was just the last straw, when the remaining diaspora realized (and I think rightly so) that without their own homeland, they would remain disenfranchised and at the mercy of foreign nations which, in times of fear or economic decline, would quickly scapegoat their most successful and foreign of immigrants: the Jewish community. While I am not a rabid Zionist supporter (I think concessions need to be made with regards to the Palestinian land issues), I do think the Jews have as much right to Israel as Canadians have a right to Canada, or Americans have a right to the United States, even if the aboriginal peoples, the First Nations tribes were there first. Not that I'm justifying the cultural genocide of the aboriginal people, merely that I'm trying to point out the hypocrisy of those Western nations telling Jews that they must give up Israel and 'return it' to the Palestinians, yet they would be up in arms if it was suggested that we return all our land back to our native peoples because really, we just stole this land from the 'Indians', didn't we.

I think for the most part though, Israel has been very accepting and inclusive of people of all nationalities and ethnicities who wish to reside in Israel or become citizens. Hell, it's not like you can't convert to Judaism if you wanted to, just as you can convert to Christianity or Islam no matter where you were born. People equate being Jewish with a race, when it's just a religion. There are a lot of non-Israeli Jews, Anglo-Saxons who converted or married into Judaism, etc. Which just makes Hitler's race theories and anti-Semitism even more ludicrous. There are a lot of blonde, blue-eyed Jews as well... they're not all hook-nosed, curly-haired, beady-eyed shyster lawyers with a heart of gold and a mouth full of gold fillings. :P Just as there are white Muslims... they aren't all Arabian, Middle Eastern, or black. Hell, Rastafarians are technically Jews because they consider themselves the lost tribe of Israel (the 13th I think it is?), so there are a bunch of black pot-smoking Jews in Jamaica. ;) Mind you, I personally think Marcus Garvey was a con man on par with Louis Farrakhan, but that's a story for another time.

Anyway. ;)
 
2003-09-16 12:39:44 AM
1. The myth of the Aryan race was started by a Frenchman.
2. Eugenics was started in Britain, and spread to the US and Germany.
3. The participants of The Six Day War are largely still alive.
4. Jews are arguably just as exclusivist and racist as everybody else.
 
2003-09-16 12:40:44 AM
(But, you have a good grasp of modern, popular myth.)
 
2003-09-16 12:45:12 AM
Nazis of the corn
Or pagans that are bored
Of this we're rather sure;
Robert Smith sings for the Cure
Nazis of the corn
 
2003-09-16 12:52:08 AM
I am not so sure it were Nazis who did it, it might just have been nihilists.
 
2003-09-16 01:43:01 AM
i dont think Israel was undoubtedly the Palistinians first as much as America belonged to the Indians. Palestinians were the most recent holders of that area before it became israel, but even area where the palestinian holy mosk now stands was previously a site where the holiest temple in judiasm once was, the Palestianians tore it down in the BC ages during one of their many "back and forth" takeovers. Frankly israel has belonged to lots of people and lots of different times, it wasn't obviously originally a palestinian place. Go to Jerusalem and you'll see partly what i mean. The city is a damn cluster of different sects, that beleive it should all be theres, and some pretty nasty things are done to their areas historical parts if they were from an era when one of their oppenents reigned.
 
2003-09-16 01:59:48 AM
Nanookanano, it's true that Hitler based a lot of his race theories on existing literature of the time, and there were some prominent French and British 'scientists' who wrote on race theory, eugenics, the inferiority of non-caucasian races, as well as anti-Semitic rhetoric disguised as 'science'. I can't recall exactly what they were that people actually listened to them, but they were considered 'intellectuals' at the time, and had works published on their theories. Mind you, the Thirties were rife with anti-Semitism throughout Western culture, so that even when European Jewry were fleeing the Holocaust, many refugees were denied entry into the U.S., Canada, and Britain. Some made it to France, only to end up trapped by the collaborators and the Vichy government after... well, France surrendered. :P

Interestingly enough, one country that did allowed entry to many European Jewry was Japan, thanks in large part to Chiune 'Sempo' Sugihara, a Japanese diplomat (and covert spy for the Japanese against the Russians) who wrote hundreds of transit visas for Jews fleeing the Communist Russians on one side and the Nazi genocidal machine on the other. Although Sugihara did this by directly disobeying the orders of his government (who didn't want to piss Hitler off by helping the Jews get away), the Japanese government did end up honouring the visas that Sugihara had written and signed, so many Jews did manage to make it out alive. I actually met one who did, and he and his family offered me a job at their sporting goods store in Ottawa (thanks, Mr. Fishbain :) ). Many of them carried those visas with them and still had them with them today. There's a street in Israel named after Sugihara, and he is known as the Japanese Schindler because of it. I met his widow (he died in relative ignominy, having been pushed out of the civil service and disgraced, and to this day the Japanese government refuses to acknowledge that his disobeying of orders was anything but wrong) during a tribute dinner in his honour in Toronto held jointly by the Canadian Jewish Congress and the National Association of Japanese Canadians, where they published my poem that I wrote about him.

I thought it an interesting story about an interesting man (a book came out about him more recently which paints an intriguing picture of a man who was a Christian but cheated on his wife and kept a mistress on the sidemoved, a man who moved in the upper echelons of upper class society and diplomatic circles, yet was moved by the plight of the starving refugees while many of his colleagues would not have cared, a man who loved and lived the high life, yet for thousands of strangers he gave it up willingly, disobeyed his own government that he had loyally served as both diplomat and spy and ended up selling lightbulbs door to door because of it. I can't recall the title of the book at the moment, but it's in one of my boxes of books. Very good read.)

He also apparently has a tree planted in Yad Vashem, and is considered one of many 'Righteous Among Nations'.

http://www.yad-vashem.org.il/visiting/trees/sugihara.html
 
2003-09-16 08:48:46 AM
Everytime someone brings up the "six-million-jews" argument i wonder how many indians the americans (spanish, british, whatever) killed, how many innocent people stalin had killed, how many people japan killed in WW2, how many people pol pot (kambodschia) had killed and so on.

almost every people has blood on their hands, so STFU!
 
2003-09-16 10:00:04 AM
spincut, that's true, but I'm arguing based on the rationale that people use to justify depriving Jews of the right for Israel to exist as a sovereign nation to begin with. Of course a long time ago, the Jews lived there before the Exodus, as I'm sure other religious and ethnic peoples lived there as well. Hell, technically Christians and Muslims also have equal claim to that area seeing as how they're both offshoots of the same religion.

I'm curious what would have happened had Eichmann's original solution to the 'Jewish Question' posed by Hitler gone ahead: I believe it was Eichmann who had first suggested creating a Jewish nation in some remote islan (Madagascar, possibly? I can't remember) and force-emigrating all European Jewry there. In fact, I think a plan like that had existed for a while and some Jews actually had been put on ships to be sent overseas, but if I remember correctly, a lot of those ships were then torpedoed deliberately, killing all aboard.

Then there were the Einsatzgruppe, the infamous Death Squads that used mobile vans with gassing equipment for portal gas chambers (I think they were used primarily to kill mental patients, or at least that's who they were tested on), before Hitler demanded a more permanent and effective Final Solution. The Death Squads also went around shooting people with automatic weapons, marching people into the woods outside small towns, forcing them to dig their own mass graves before shooting them in the head, execution-style. There were even some top Nazi officials (Goering maybe?) who went with some of them and was sickened by the brains that got splattered on him.
 
2003-09-16 10:54:39 AM
The hooks on the cross actually pointed in the opposite direction to those on the swastika used by Adolf Hitler's Nazi party but it was still being treated as an illegal symbol.

Then its a Buddhist symbol, not a Nazis one.
 
2003-09-17 09:14:12 AM
proof of aryan inferiority:
 
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