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(TampaBay.com (St. Petersburg Tim)   Clearwater rejects Church of Scientology's offer to forget about $400,000 in code violations in exchange for a free personality exam   (tampabay.com) divider line 90
    More: Florida, Church of Scientology, Clearwater, building codes, scientology  
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10697 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Aug 2011 at 11:46 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-08-25 12:50:30 PM

tricycleracer: Diogenes: But he said changes in the city's building codes and the complexity of the church's unique plans made delays inevitable.

If you're aware of those factors, the delays are not inevitable.

That's Project Management 101. That's like day 1 stuff.

Apparently Scientologists don't believe in PMI certifications.


Dude, you don't know the truth about PMI certs. They do.
 
2011-08-25 12:51:06 PM

Confabulat: They finished the entire exterior except for one corner in like a year, then they left that one corner open to the elements for about six or seven years. It was the oddest thing.


I don't know if it relates, but in europe, I've been told that in the past, some larger structures have been built in such a way as to leave a portion of them unfinished, doing small amounts of work on that portion every year, so the building remains "unfinished" - and avoiding paying taxes on the structure, which didn't kick in until after completion - in essense abusing a tax loophole.
 
2011-08-25 12:51:15 PM
All they need to do to pay the fine is get four suckers to go all the way to OT3.
 
2011-08-25 12:56:03 PM

Funbags: Jake Havechek: Scientology is a scam, it offers you NOTHING, except an empty bank account, a hypnosis conditioned mind and no friends or family.

Whatever, hater. I can now sense danger quicker, and appreciate beauty more deeply.


And your midichlorine levels are OVER 9,000!
 
2011-08-25 12:59:33 PM
I can now sense danger quicker, and appreciate beauty more deeply.

Sounds like John Fitzgerald has become a Scientologist.
 
2011-08-25 12:59:52 PM

Doubleodoug: Dr. Whoof: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: Dr. Whoof: Have they given any creedence to a revival?

It's bit of a stretch but I'll allow it

Well there's certainly a bad moon on the rise for the Scientologists. Down on the corner they might find a fortunate son born on the bayou who can represent them against the city council.

Oh Suzie Q...


She's a Proud Mary. But seriously, it's a great location for the church. Have you ever seen the rain? It's lovely over the ocean, and really, who'll stop the rain? You can run through the jungle just outside of town. Up around the bend, there's a travelin' band, too.

Just a nice place to visit.
 
2011-08-25 01:06:20 PM

stratagos: Jake Havechek: In before "Scientology is comparable to other older religions with long histories and established mythologies".

Scientology is a scam, it offers you NOTHING, except an empty bank account, a hypnosis conditioned mind and no friends or family.

sooo... how is that different than older religions with long histories and established mythologies?

/kidding
//kinda


Most of them suggest you give only 10% of your cash to the church.
 
2011-08-25 01:07:31 PM
"One Scientologist who completed the training in Los Angeles, Matt Feshbach, told the Times in 2006 he could sense danger quicker and could appreciate beauty more deeply."

AACCCKKKTTT!
If that harebrained ,disgraced and hopelessly benighted noodle-loaf actually has 'spidey senses' to warn him of danger than why didnt they warn him of the danger of scientology before he pissed away every last coin of his familys fortune 'learning' this 'ability'?
and how many thousands of dollars did he squander 'learning' how to appreciate the Mona Lisa?

Its so difficult to pity people who get snared by this type of thing but I DO pity them , no human being deserves to be fleecced down to their raw bones for any reason, If LRH and his cronies truly had humanities intrests in mind they would preach and evangelise unceasingly ,only accepting whatever donations people would volunteer without being prodded and they would still do productive work in their community from flipping burgers to cleaning drains.......But they dont have humanities intrest in mind....only humanities wealth.
 
2011-08-25 01:15:05 PM

Dr. Whoof: Doubleodoug: Dr. Whoof: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: Dr. Whoof: Have they given any creedence to a revival?

It's bit of a stretch but I'll allow it

Well there's certainly a bad moon on the rise for the Scientologists. Down on the corner they might find a fortunate son born on the bayou who can represent them against the city council.

Oh Suzie Q...

She's a Proud Mary. But seriously, it's a great location for the church. Have you ever seen the rain? It's lovely over the ocean, and really, who'll stop the rain? You can run through the jungle just outside of town. Up around the bend, there's a travelin' band, too.

Just a nice place to visit.


Look at all the happy creatures dancing on the lawn.
 
2011-08-25 01:15:53 PM

Funbags: Jake Havechek: Scientology is a scam, it offers you NOTHING, except an empty bank account, a hypnosis conditioned mind and no friends or family.

Whatever, hater. I can now sense danger quicker, and appreciate beauty more deeply.


Are you three feet behind your head?
 
2011-08-25 01:21:11 PM
Confabulat
They finished the entire exterior except for one corner in like a year, then they left that one corner open to the elements for about six or seven years. It was the oddest thing.

I figured it gave them some sort of tax break or other financial loophole to claim that the building was still under development. Until the council caught on.
 
2011-08-25 01:21:16 PM
Kit Fister: i36.photobucket.com

I was very excited to see new episodes on Hulu, then very disappointed to find that they didn't bring him back.
 
2011-08-25 01:24:15 PM

Jake Havechek: Sgt. Pepper: Jake Havechek: In before "Scientology is comparable to other older religions with long histories and established mythologies".

Scientology is a scam, it offers you NOTHING, except an empty bank account, a hypnosis conditioned mind and no friends or family.

Whereas mainstream religions give you a dandy mythology and a history to go along with the brainwashing and fraud.

Well you see, even a God-hating atheist like me does not have to pony up cash to learn about Jesus or read the deranged ramblings of John of Patmos. I don't even have to buy a Bible, I can walk into almost any church and read one for free. You have to spend about $100,000 over time before you are allowed to even see the Xenu story.


This is the big difference between Scientology and Other Religions.

Churches will happily give you a bible for free. You can go online and freely and legally download the holy texts of almost every religion on this planet. You can study their doctrine and practices with no problems. With most faiths you can freely attend services, and in most cases you can convert to that faith and still never be forced to pay a dime.

If I wanted to become Catholic, I could attend catechism classes, be baptised as a Catholic, and attend mass and confession regularly, and if I was poor and couldn't spare any money, they wouldn't hold it against me. Even if I did not convert, I would still be welcome to read their teachings and scriptures and discuss them with their followers and clergy and if I thought Pope Zachary was fascinating they wouldn't avoid the topic even if he was the Pope who first declared to believe in a round Earth was heresy.

If I wanted to become Muslim, I could go to a local Mosque and speak with the Imam, I could profess faith in Allah and the Prophet Mohammed, and attend prayers and sermons all the time, and if I was poor they wouldn't throw me out. If I did not want to convert, but did want to discuss their faith, they wouldn't ban me just because I wanted to talk esoteric interpretations of the Rightly Guided Caliphs.

If I wanted to become a Scientologist, I would have to pay for almost every step of the way after the personality test. I would not be allowed to read or discuss any part of the teaching or belief system I had not paid for access to, including discussing it with fellow members of the congregation. If I wasn't willing to convert and pay handsomely to do so, I would be limited to a relatively small number of books that I would still have to pay to get in what I could read. Parts of the belief system like Incident II, which are well known on the Internet, are still officially big secrets to CoS members, so they're not going to talk about it.

Other religions ask politely for money, if you can afford it. Scientology demands it or else no "salvation" (or you could sell yourself into slavery for the rest of your life to the paramilitary Sea Org arm of the CoS and be one of their goons and/or drones). Other religions happily discuss their theology and doctrine, Scientology calls theirs a "Trade Secret" (Yes, they've used that claim in court). Other religions happily give away copies of their holy texts, Scientology is notorious for use of Copyright Law to attempt to prevent distribution of Scientology books.
 
2011-08-25 01:24:47 PM

stratagos: sooo... how is that different than older religions with long histories and established mythologies?


The older established religions let you keep SOME of your money and your family. they find that in the long run it's a more profitable model.
 
2011-08-25 01:26:48 PM
FTA: "But the church asked the city to reduce its fine by 90 percent... That request went to the city's resident-led Code Enforcement Board, which has a record of leniency and decimating fines."

Does anyone else find the choice of the word "decimate" odd here? Because that classically means the reduction by one tenth, not reduction to one tenth, which is what the church asked for. Is the writer trying to be clever here? Does the board prefer to reduce fines by 10%, or 90%? Or do they just decimate fines in the more widely accepted sense of "drastically reduce or destroy"?
 
2011-08-25 01:27:05 PM
Every time I hear something about Scientology, it reminds me of the "Clam Bake of the Dead" campaign I made up for All Flesh Must be Eaten in college. Basically, the reporting stations were somehow destroyed or inactive, so the thetans were just coming back to Earth and re-inhabiting the bodies they had just left, and re-inhabiting the dead bodies made said thetans become homicidal and cannibalistic. Good times. And yes, I am a nerd.
 
2011-08-25 01:27:30 PM
Scientology has proof of certain celebrities' homosexual past, and they OBVIOUSLY blackmail them. Cheaper to "join" the scam, then have the whole world find out. Hollywood does NOT cast known gay men as leading men in big budget films..

/Come out of the closet already!

img801.imageshack.us

Travolta gossip

/Hollywood; you can pretend to be gay in a film, but horror of horrors if you actually are. intensely homophobic industry.
 
2011-08-25 01:27:34 PM

ZeroCorpse: My grandparents lived in Clearwater ages ago. It used to be a nice place. Then the Scientologists took over. Now, everyone tiptoes around them.

It's pretty f♥cked up that a cult could take over a town like that. But then, there's also Salt Lake City and The Vatican.


Mormons founded SLC...
 
2011-08-25 01:37:19 PM

This text is now purple: ZeroCorpse: It's pretty f♥cked up that a cult could take over a town like that. But then, there's also Salt Lake City and The Vatican.

Mormons founded SLC...


It was Indian land before the Mormons came along...
 
2011-08-25 02:13:17 PM

DominaNY:
/Hollywood; you can pretend to be gay in a film, but horror of horrors if you actually are. intensely homophobic industry.


Patrick Stewart, Ian McClellan, Jodie Foster, Neil Patrick Harris. . .

So, you're saying that Tom Cruise decided to stay in the closet for fear of being outed has instead made him a laughingstock known for jumping couches and acting a damn fool.

I know the conventional wisdom in Hollywood is that gay men can't be movie stars, but that "conventional wisdom" has never been challenged in the decades of increased acceptance of LBGT celebrities.

I would rather be gay and taken seriously than closeted and a disrespected joke.
 
2011-08-25 02:22:35 PM
Scientology has run out of cash. And we have Anonymous to thank for that.

Now if they could just target Catholics next, they'd really be on to something.
 
2011-08-25 02:28:11 PM

Silverstaff: Jake Havechek: Sgt. Pepper: Jake Havechek: In before "Scientology is comparable to other older religions with long histories and established mythologies".

Scientology is a scam, it offers you NOTHING, except an empty bank account, a hypnosis conditioned mind and no friends or family.

Whereas mainstream religions give you a dandy mythology and a history to go along with the brainwashing and fraud.

Well you see, even a God-hating atheist like me does not have to pony up cash to learn about Jesus or read the deranged ramblings of John of Patmos. I don't even have to buy a Bible, I can walk into almost any church and read one for free. You have to spend about $100,000 over time before you are allowed to even see the Xenu story.

This is the big difference between Scientology and Other Religions.

Churches will happily give you a bible for free. You can go online and freely and legally download the holy texts of almost every religion on this planet. You can study their doctrine and practices with no problems. With most faiths you can freely attend services, and in most cases you can convert to that faith and still never be forced to pay a dime.


Being fantastically interested in religions myself - in a 'know your enemy' sort of way - I've gone out of my way to acquire and study various religious books and attempt to understand the concepts, rules, and fundamental lack of critical thinking specific to each religion. I've got free books on the 8 fold path, english/arabic side-by-side korans, more bibles than I really want, something mormon, and many others. For the life of me, I cannot find a place that will send me a free copy of the torah, talmud, and midrash.

/ insert joke about jews and money here.
 
2011-08-25 02:43:39 PM
And to think that the amount of the fine is what $cientology can expect to collect from just one person going through their entire program from the beginning. It brings to mind happy memories of the Usenet group "alt.fark.the.skull.of.l.ron.hubbard.squick.squick.squick".
 
2011-08-25 02:46:05 PM

Loki-L:
Actually that is a recent development. Originally any attempt to make the bible accessible to the common people (like translating it into a language they could understand) was met with resistance from the church. Today many appear to wish to return to those days by insisting that the only 'correct' version of the bible is in such archaic language that for many it might as well be in Latin.




I must have missed all those news articles mentioning the tens, hundreds, and thousands of churches that insist on using your 'correct' version of the Bible. Oh wait, there hasn't been a single one.
 
2011-08-25 02:51:04 PM

Silverstaff: Patrick Stewart, Ian McClellan, Jodie Foster, Neil Patrick Harris. . .


The others I knew about, but I haven't encountered anything to suggest that Patrick Stewart is gay. And Wikipedia (which is, as you know, absolutely authoritative) has nothing about it. Is there reason to suppose that he is?

Otherwise, good post. I suppose there may be individuals that would refuse to cast a person based on orientation, but it seems far from systematic.
 
2011-08-25 02:55:50 PM

DominaNY: Scientology has proof of certain celebrities' homosexual past, and they OBVIOUSLY blackmail them. Cheaper to "join" the scam, then have the whole world find out. Hollywood does NOT cast known gay men as leading men in big budget films..

/Come out of the closet already!

[img801.imageshack.us image 271x183]

Travolta gossip

/Hollywood; you can pretend to be gay in a film, but horror of horrors if you actually are. intensely homophobic industry.


Yeah that Neil Patrick Harris certainly can't find work now that he's outted. What?

Note: I don't think it's Hollywood that has the issues with homos, more like the general US public did when both Cruise and Travolta were first getting famous.
 
G2V
2011-08-25 03:47:21 PM

Dr. Whoof: That clearly makes it superior...and their sky wizard is clearly more believable than aliens...

/Not defending Scientology
//Both sides are farking insane, so vote atheist.


They don't have a term for people who disbelieve in leprechauns.
//Vote ignostic, because atheism places too much import on the irrelevant.
 
2011-08-25 04:14:25 PM

SnakeLee: I really want to be on a city board again but it's so competitive to get on one in a major city like San Diego. Not sure how to weasel that one.


Just find out who appoints the commissioners, make friends with them, and you're in.

/I'm sure being friends with the Mayor of San Diego may be difficult
//then be the friend of a friend
 
2011-08-25 04:20:46 PM
They should setup another fine that doubles the $400,000 fine for every week they don't pay up now that they've been ordered to.
 
2011-08-25 04:29:20 PM

treesloth: Silverstaff: Patrick Stewart, Ian McClellan, Jodie Foster, Neil Patrick Harris. . .

The others I knew about, but I haven't encountered anything to suggest that Patrick Stewart is gay. And Wikipedia (which is, as you know, absolutely authoritative) has nothing about it. Is there reason to suppose that he is?

Otherwise, good post. I suppose there may be individuals that would refuse to cast a person based on orientation, but it seems far from systematic.


Given Patrick's 2 marriages, one of which ended because of his romantic involvement with yet another woman, he's at the very least not --strictly-- homosexual. I kinda doubt he is at all, but it's possible he could be bi.
 
2011-08-25 04:35:37 PM

XveryYpettyZ:
Given Patrick's 2 marriages, one of which ended because of his romantic involvement with yet another woman, he's at the very least not --strictly-- homosexual. I kinda doubt he is at all, but it's possible he could be bi.


Plus he wrote that screenplay about the superhero whose power was to make women's clothes fall off just by thinking about it. And they try to cover up, but it's too late, he's seen everything.
 
2011-08-25 04:50:38 PM
Most people just go to college, attend frat parties, and drop copious amounts of LSD to learn to sense danger faster and appreciate beauty.
 
2011-08-25 04:55:46 PM

XveryYpettyZ: Given Patrick's 2 marriages, one of which ended because of his romantic involvement with yet another woman, he's at the very least not --strictly-- homosexual. I kinda doubt he is at all, but it's possible he could be bi.


Plus he got some pretty good-looking ladies on TNG, which is really real! And, he has a well-publicized liking of naked ladies (pops).
 
2011-08-25 05:42:00 PM

Jake Havechek: When Tom Cruise is driving, and he sees an accident scene, he knows that he is the only person who can really help.


Yes but how does repressed anal play help?
 
2011-08-25 05:53:41 PM
Not reducing the fines, Armstrong argued, would "unfairly penalize" the church and "serve no public purpose."

I think that anyone who lets a $250 a day penalty grow to over $400k can hardly call it unfair. But I'm not a Scientologist, so what do I know?
 
2011-08-25 06:03:13 PM

hobodojo: Most people just go to college, attend frat parties, and drop copious amounts of LSD to learn to sense danger faster and appreciate beauty.


Doesn't the cost work out to be similar? Although your method does seem to be more fun.
 
2011-08-25 10:03:54 PM

Queen Mab: Dr. Whoof: Doubleodoug: Dr. Whoof: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: Dr. Whoof: Have they given any creedence to a revival?

It's bit of a stretch but I'll allow it

Well there's certainly a bad moon on the rise for the Scientologists. Down on the corner they might find a fortunate son born on the bayou who can represent them against the city council.

Oh Suzie Q...

She's a Proud Mary. But seriously, it's a great location for the church. Have you ever seen the rain? It's lovely over the ocean, and really, who'll stop the rain? You can run through the jungle just outside of town. Up around the bend, there's a travelin' band, too.

Just a nice place to visit.

Look at all the happy creatures dancing on the lawn.


I see your sinister purpose.
 
2011-08-26 01:10:35 AM

MrEricSir: Scientology has run out of cash. And we have Anonymous to thank for that.

Now if they could just target Catholics next, they'd really be on to something.


What are you talking about? Scientology is currently sitting on a huge war chest. They own multi millions in unused property alone.
 
2011-08-26 01:25:47 AM

Chicken Soda: What are you talking about? Scientology is currently sitting on a huge war chest. They own multi millions in unused property alone.


Do they? Around here I've seen them come and go in rental spaces. They seem to move a lot. If they were less inept I'd almost think they were a front for something.
 
2011-08-26 09:20:19 AM

quietwalker: Being fantastically interested in religions myself - in a 'know your enemy' sort of way - I've gone out of my way to acquire and study various religious books and attempt to understand the concepts, rules, and fundamental lack of critical thinking specific to each religion. I've got free books on the 8 fold path, english/arabic side-by-side korans, more bibles than I really want, something mormon, and many others. For the life of me, I cannot find a place that will send me a free copy of the torah, talmud, and midrash.

/ insert joke about jews and money here.


I think it's probably as much that (AFAICT) there's not much proselytising that goes on in Judaism. They don't want to convert you. They will allow you to convert if you believe and study and ask them, but they're not recruiting. Most of the other religions are on a permanent recruitment drive.


CoS is a horrible, horrible, cynical, nasty organisation that destroys lives. Most other western religion has mellowed in the last couple of hundred years. Scientology is both a scam and a lot nastier than other modern, western religions.
 
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