FARK.com: (6492334) Image: At 83, subject of 'American Girl in Italy' photo speaks out. Ninalee Craig says image symbolizes independence and fearlessness, not harassment

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		Image: At 83, subject of 'American Girl in Italy' photo speaks out. Ninalee Craig says image symbolizes independence and fearlessness, not harassment (today.msnbc.msn.com)		105
		More: Interesting, Italy, independence, bachelorettes

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Gulper Eel		2011-08-19 11:48:09 AM

She was hawt and all, but she shoulda shown a lot more skin and gotten pierced, maybe gotten some bolt-ons, then some ink for the rack because guys need to be reminded where to stare.

Style. A nearly entirely alien concept today.

MaxxLarge		2011-08-19 11:56:51 AM

What a cool lady.

Dancin_In_Anson		2011-08-19 12:47:21 PM

What a great story!

Most of is look back and say "I wish I had..."

She looks back and says "farkin' A, Buuba. What a time it was"

strangeguitar		2011-08-19 12:52:37 PM

/unavailable for comment

Theaetetus		2011-08-19 12:53:21 PM

"That young man is not whistling, by the way; he's making a happy, yelping sound," Tom said. "And where you see him touching the family jewels, or indicating them, with his hand - well, for a long time that was considered an image people should not look at. That part was airbrushed out for years ... But none of those men crossed the line at all."

meat0918		2011-08-19 02:02:07 PM

I've never seen this photo.

skullkrusher		2011-08-19 02:02:32 PM

dirty dagos

cgraves67		2011-08-19 02:04:00 PM

I don't get the feminist angle. The woman looks disapproving possibly even scared, definitely not enjoying the attention.

bhcompy		2011-08-19 02:05:00 PM

Either she's really tall or those Italians were really small

skullkrusher		2011-08-19 02:05:14 PM

cgraves67: I don't get the feminist angle. The woman looks disapproving possibly even scared, definitely not enjoying the attention.

pretty sure that would be the feminist angle, no?

gerbilpox		2011-08-19 02:06:10 PM

"We were literally horsing around," Craig said, reminiscing about the bright orange shawl she wore that day.

She's literally an airhead.

skullkrusher		2011-08-19 02:06:29 PM

"There, she met another adventurous solo female traveler: Ruth Orkin, a 29-year-old photographer who came to Italy after completing an assignment in Israel."

Dear Penthouse...

BFletch651		2011-08-19 02:06:38 PM

Cool Story, Sis

bfahle		2011-08-19 02:06:50 PM

Theaetetus: [upload.wikimedia.org image 250x205]
"That young man is not whistling, by the way; he's making a happy, yelping sound," Tom said. "And where you see him touching the family jewels, or indicating them, with his hand - well, for a long time that was considered an image people should not look at. That part was airbrushed out for years ... But none of those men crossed the line at all."

The descendants of that man are now back in Italy shooting Jersey Shore.

bfahle		2011-08-19 02:08:32 PM

cgraves67: I don't get the feminist angle. The woman looks disapproving possibly even scared, definitely not enjoying the attention.

If you RTFA, the subject of the photo says she's having a good time, specifically not scared, specifically enjoying the attention.

/still don't get what's feminist about getting leered at

Spade		2011-08-19 02:09:01 PM

cgraves67: I don't get the feminist angle. The woman looks disapproving possibly even scared, definitely not enjoying the attention.

Except we know she wasn't those things.

Because she told us.

The photographer told the guys not to look at the camera so they had to look at something

Rapmaster2000		2011-08-19 02:11:07 PM

That's dumb. Everyone knows foreign countries are filled with foreigners and not the good kind of Foreigner that I saw at the Meadowlands in '82.

Dialectic		2011-08-19 02:12:29 PM

No Tramp Stamp?

If you are a woman, You need a tramp stamp in the 00s.

skullkrusher		2011-08-19 02:13:13 PM

Rapmaster2000: That's dumb. Everyone knows foreign countries are filled with foreigners and not the good kind of Foreigner that I saw at the Meadowlands in '82.

well, take a look at those foreigners. They are acting very foreigner like

bhcompy		2011-08-19 02:17:32 PM

skullkrusher: Rapmaster2000: That's dumb. Everyone knows foreign countries are filled with foreigners and not the good kind of Foreigner that I saw at the Meadowlands in '82.

well, take a look at those foreigners. They are acting very foreigner like

Yea, staring at the American is pretty much all I saw when I was in Europe

PYROY		2011-08-19 02:17:38 PM

The iconic photo that no one has ever seen.

skullkrusher		2011-08-19 02:18:38 PM

bhcompy: skullkrusher: Rapmaster2000: That's dumb. Everyone knows foreign countries are filled with foreigners and not the good kind of Foreigner that I saw at the Meadowlands in '82.

well, take a look at those foreigners. They are acting very foreigner like

Yea, staring at the American is pretty much all I saw when I was in Europe

were you wearing an American flag fanny pack or something?

rickythepenguin		2011-08-19 02:19:29 PM

From about 10 a.m. to noon the following day, Orkin shot photos of Craig - who then called herself "Jinx Allen," a name she invented and assumed because it sounded "exciting" - admiring statues, asking for directions, haggling at markets and flirting in cafes.

Myah, Jinx Allen, myah, seee, welcome to Italy, myahhhh.....Myahhh. Jinx, ehhh? myah.....Cute name for a dame like you, seee, myahhh.....Dame like you with getaway sticks like that, myah, fellas are liable to make a play for you, seee? Make time, see? Go watch the submarine races, see? Myahhhh.....Broads, see, they don't know the game we play in It-ly, see? Myahhhh.....Myah.....I like the way that dress hangs off ya, see? I got a nice salami right here, aaaaaooohhhh! Myah.....Jinx, ehhh? How'd ya like to jinx *this*! Myahhhhh.....Myah.....

Jinx, ehhhh? I could watch you walk away all day long, see? Where-ja get those pins, Jinx? Legs like those get a man to thinkin', see? Myahhh.....Legs like that could get a man into all the right kind of trouble, see? Myahhh.....Land a fella in hoosegow, see? Myah....

Jinx, yer killin' me, see? Myahhh.....G'wan, Jinx, ya startin' to bodder me. Gwan, I said! Myah.....Costin' me money, see? Might hafta break ya face, see? GWAN!

Gwan, I said! 23 skiddoo! Myahhhhhhh.....

Theaetetus		2011-08-19 02:21:17 PM

cgraves67: I don't get the feminist angle
bfahle: /still don't get what's feminist about getting leered at

You guys should re-read the article. It's the opposite:
"Some people want to use it as a symbol of harassment of women, but that's what we've been fighting all these years," Craig said in a telephone interview from her home in Toronto. "It's not a symbol of harassment. It's a symbol of a woman having an absolutely wonderful time!"

She's saying that feminists decrying street harassment are wrong, and that she was having a great time being leered at, because they made her feel appreciated. Which is like saying that slavery was empowering because it let you know that someone was willing to pay money for you, rather than being considered worthless.

Which really is quite depressing, honestly.

Calm Down You Spaz		2011-08-19 02:22:01 PM

cgraves67: I don't get the feminist angle. The woman looks disapproving possibly even scared, definitely not enjoying the attention.

This

atomic-age		2011-08-19 02:22:16 PM

bhcompy: Either she's really tall or those Italians were really small

The article said she was 6' tall.

catsfish		2011-08-19 02:23:04 PM

Nice Lambretta, Guido.

skullkrusher		2011-08-19 02:23:28 PM

Theaetetus: She's saying that feminists decrying street harassment are wrong, and that she was having a great time being leered at, because they made her feel appreciated. Which is like saying that slavery was empowering because it let you know that someone was willing to pay money for you, rather than being considered worthless.

I've seem some bad analogies in my day but this one is like comparing orange juice to orange juice concentrate

/meta

rickythepenguin		2011-08-19 02:25:00 PM

his photo taken on Aug. 12 shows Craig standing next to Orkin's iconic image and wearing the same orange shawl she wore in the photo nearly 60 years ago.

Jesus. I can barely keep the same pair of underwear intact for more than 3 weeks.

Inchoate		2011-08-19 02:29:02 PM

MaxxLarge: What a cool lady.

I thought so too. Unafraid to live life to the fullest, a little cheeky, a little flighty, aging with verve.

As for the whole harassment discussion - whether overt flirting/catcalling from passersby is seen as flattering or creepy (or a little of both) depends on the woman and on the situation. Best not to do that in situations where a woman could feel overwhelmed or unable to escape.

Theaetetus		2011-08-19 02:29:12 PM

skullkrusher: Theaetetus: She's saying that feminists decrying street harassment are wrong, and that she was having a great time being leered at, because they made her feel appreciated. Which is like saying that slavery was empowering because it let you know that someone was willing to pay money for you, rather than being considered worthless.

I've seem some bad analogies in my day but this one is like comparing orange juice to orange juice concentrate

/meta

Strained?

Inigo_Montoya		2011-08-19 02:29:29 PM

Add me to the never-seen-that-photo-before-in-my-life crowd.

tricycleracer		2011-08-19 02:29:48 PM

Theaetetus: cgraves67: I don't get the feminist angle
bfahle: /still don't get what's feminist about getting leered at

You guys should re-read the article. It's the opposite:
"Some people want to use it as a symbol of harassment of women, but that's what we've been fighting all these years," Craig said in a telephone interview from her home in Toronto. "It's not a symbol of harassment. It's a symbol of a woman having an absolutely wonderful time!"

She's saying that feminists decrying street harassment are wrong, and that she was having a great time being leered at, because they made her feel appreciated. Which is like saying that slavery was empowering because it let you know that someone was willing to pay money for you, rather than being considered worthless.

Which really is quite depressing, honestly.

I generally agree with you, but:

demotivate.me

bhcompy		2011-08-19 02:29:53 PM

skullkrusher: bhcompy: skullkrusher: Rapmaster2000: That's dumb. Everyone knows foreign countries are filled with foreigners and not the good kind of Foreigner that I saw at the Meadowlands in '82.

well, take a look at those foreigners. They are acting very foreigner like

Yea, staring at the American is pretty much all I saw when I was in Europe

were you wearing an American flag fanny pack or something?

Nope, but I got "ooo, big American football player!" a few times

/6'2 220
//more like mildly big American first baseman

Car_Ramrod		2011-08-19 02:30:13 PM

meat0918: I've never seen this photo.

PYROY: The iconic photo that no one has ever seen.

Ok, thank you. I was worried that I was the only one that's never seen this before.

DrSticky		2011-08-19 02:30:29 PM

rickythepenguin: his photo taken on Aug. 12 shows Craig standing next to Orkin's iconic image and wearing the same orange shawl she wore in the photo nearly 60 years ago.

Jesus. I can barely keep the same pair of underwear intact for more than 3 weeks.

She prolly changes and washes her things too.

starlost		2011-08-19 02:32:39 PM

2 lezzies trying to get guys to stare at one of them while the other takes pictures.

Car_Ramrod		2011-08-19 02:32:40 PM

DrSticky: rickythepenguin: his photo taken on Aug. 12 shows Craig standing next to Orkin's iconic image and wearing the same orange shawl she wore in the photo nearly 60 years ago.

Jesus. I can barely keep the same pair of underwear intact for more than 3 weeks.

She prolly changes and washes her things too.

Well la-dee-da Miss Moneybags.

cgraves67		2011-08-19 02:33:10 PM

Spade: cgraves67: I don't get the feminist angle. The woman looks disapproving possibly even scared, definitely not enjoying the attention.

Except we know she wasn't those things.

Because she told us.

The photographer told the guys not to look at the camera so they had to look at something

I know she said that. I'm asking how to interpret from the photograph that she is fearless and independent. What she says and the way she looked seem contradictary to me. the article makes it sound like she is trying to set the record straight regarding the message of the photograph rather than explain how she was feeling about the event. I realize that those two things can be different in a staged event.

A person who is fearless and independent wouldn't appear to be fleeing from unsolicited attention.

you_idiot		2011-08-19 02:35:55 PM

I went to Italy on a school trip when I was 17. Holy. Crap. The girls in our group were constantly approached and stared at. The men there have no fear. At one point, they were crowded around 3 of the girls at a burger place and one of the guys actually stole a kiss. It was getting a bit uncomfortable. I went back to the hotel to get two guys from the group, one was 6'7" the other 6'8" to provide an escort for the girls back to the hotel. Problem solved.

But man, the Italian men are so forward!

Pollexabator		2011-08-19 02:36:04 PM

tricycleracer		2011-08-19 02:36:53 PM

cgraves67: A person who is fearless and independent wouldn't appear to be fleeing from unsolicited attention.

It was a different time then. Different values.

If she was in modern day Florence at that age, I'm sure she would have lined up all those guys and made like a circus seal.

Osomatic		2011-08-19 02:37:12 PM

The picture totally wasn't staged, even though she apparently had to walk down the same street twice and they directed the guys what to look at, but other than that, nope, not staged at all.

cryinoutloud		2011-08-19 02:38:02 PM

Italian guys I've known were like this--pretty blatant in their admiration. And while I never really felt that staring was threatening, I'm old enough now that a guy staring at me is a compliment. It doesn't last forever.

nutkick_42		2011-08-19 02:38:27 PM

Car_Ramrod: meat0918: I've never seen this photo.

PYROY: The iconic photo that no one has ever seen.

Ok, thank you. I was worried that I was the only one that's never seen this before.

Good, it's not just me.

Porous Horace		2011-08-19 02:38:38 PM

They weren't leering lasciviously; they were stunned by her lack of moustache.

Hack Patooey		2011-08-19 02:39:36 PM

You know the photo. You've seen it a hundred times.

Nope, can't say I do, or have.

Pants full of macaroni!!		2011-08-19 02:40:03 PM

poot_rootbeer		2011-08-19 02:41:20 PM

Looking at this photo -- which I've never heard of before today -- through the lens of American culture in 2011, that does not appear to be the body language of a woman who is enjoying the attention she's getting from the men.

The arms drawn in near the chest, the eyes practically closed to avoid making eye contact with anyone, the stiffness in the neck and jaw... to me, she looks uncomfortable in her surroundings.

Ultimately, the moral is that Art is exactly what the viewer interprets it to be. It doesn't have to be what the creator intended it to be, or even what it objectively was.

tricycleracer		2011-08-19 02:41:44 PM

Pollexabator: Of course, I read her words and was not struck by how they would be best explained through a slavery metaphor. I have so much to learn.

You do have much to learn. For example, this photo can be accurately summed up with a rape metaphor:

upload.wikimedia.org