subby sounds fat.

I've always thought that willpower accounted for a lot, having something to live for propels you longer. Like when you read about those people who retire and then die 6mos later because they've got nothing to do.

A bodybuilder would be considered obese based solely on weight. These are the people this study is talking about.
Or this article has completely misinterpreted the data through a game of journalism telephone.
I'm betting it's a little bit of both.

as a skinny guy, this thread confuses me

/goes to consult wife...

oblig

BMI is an amazingly stupid scale. It needs to be said any time BMI comes up.

I'm only 30 pounds overweight but clearly more than half dead. Quick, bring me donuts.

This explains a lot about Santa.

FTFA: "Just because you're normal weight doesn't necessarily mean that you're healthy."

No shiat? Really? Wow!

Eating too much is an addiction.

Wearing clothes is an addiction.

Peeing off the balcony of your apartment is an addiction.

Farting in a crowded elevator IS SUCH A FARKING RUSH, errr, addiction.

/Will power is recognizing when too much is too much.

Stage 1 obesity describes people with "sub-clinical" signs of trouble, such as borderline high blood pressure, elevated liver enzymes and occasional aches and pains. Stage 4 is the most severe.

At what stage does "Wash Myself With A Rag On A Stick" come in?

*study sponsored by Tim Horton's

NkThrasher: BMI is an amazingly stupid scale. It needs to be said any time BMI comes up.

ayup.

if you look at my BMI, i'm morbidly obese.

if you look AT ME, and any relevant measurements (BP, heartrate, etc), I'm in damn good health, and my actualy body fat % is no where close to what BMI would indicate. My doctor agrees with me.

Intense, long term personal workout habits and a large quantity of muscles will do that to you. Just as will eating like shiat, but not a lot but not excersizing at all will give you a perfect BMI and shiatty health.

So what the article really said was that depending on the study 77 to 90% of the obese people were in very poor health and had an extremely high likelyhood of keeling over. Of the remaining 10 to 23% only 20% will keel over and die early. That really does not sound too good if you think about it. Also, how are their knees, backs, etc...? Depression is also more common among the obese. Did they look into that? What is the quality of life?There are a lot of reasons to remain in reasonable shape other than just the threat of early death.

If you're a woman and you're even ten pounds over your ideal weight, it's tough to find a doctor who will even admit, let alone investigate the possibility that there might be anything at all wrong with you that isn't caused by the extra weight. It's why many women avoid going to the doctor at all.

But they're fat and ugly, so fark em.

Gyrfalcon: Very interesting article. Beginning about here: In fact, patients in Stage 0 or 1 were at lower risk of dying from cardiovascular disease or coronary heart disease than normal-weight individuals. they note that slightly obese people are in fact healthier, both physically and emotionally, more comfortable with their weight, more likely to eat reasonably (as opposed to yo-yo dieting), and lack all the other markers of "obesity-related illness" than the obese group they're usually lumped with.

I also noted that, especially with these lower-weight obese people, the doctors were concerned that they stay healthy FIRST, and maintain whatever weight they're at, and not get panicky about somehow getting down to "normal weight." "There shouldn't be an urgent need to lose weight just because their BMI is high. The focus really should be on trying to maintain that weight and not get heavier." If you're healthy and just fat, then, why not stay that way? IF, that is, you're otherwise healthy, of course.

Oh, btw, beauf, you got the numbers backward. It was 77-90% of the obese people were in reasonably good shape, despite being clinically obese, and weren't in any danger of "keeling over". It was the remaining percentages who were at very high risk.

77-90% were Stage 1 or 2, not 0, which would be good health. Stage 1 showed troubling signs such as early signs of liver trouble. Stage 2 was worse. This is a rediculous comparison anyway; first off, they compared people who were screened for all kinds of problems to the overall population of people who were only looked at for weight (actually BMI). If they really wanted to make a fair comparison they should compare the life expectancy thin people who have been screened for the same issues and came up negative. There are plenty of people who are thin but drink too much, eat poorly, smoke, and never work out. They are going to be in poor health regardless of weight. They are also probably over fat if not overweight. Their level of intramuscular or visceral fat is probably pretty high.
I think most people already know that you are not necessarily going to die at 40 if you are overweight and that is all that this really shows. What is does not refute, however is the fact that you are much more likely to suffer from certain health issues if you are overweight. The likelyhood of those health issues goes up as your bodyfat level goes up. You may not suffer from those issues, but you are rolling the dice. I think we should encourage people to live healthy lifestyles. Pointing out that some people who smoke two packs a day live to 100 does not benefit anyone.

I used to run a couple marathons per year. Even still, I never got below 200 poounds. At 6' tall I was still over my ideal weight. I still run 12-15 miles per week (between 8 and 9 minutes per mile) though now I'm 40 pounds heavier than I was at that point. But by all medical measures I'm in excellent shape. However, because of the extra weight people make all sorts of assumptions.

I had to go to the ER after stepping on a nail this summer. They took my blood pressure, temp, and pulse when I got there. After looking at the results, the ER nurse took my pulse again, and then a third time. She asked if I was feeling light-headed at all. I asked her what was wrong and she said, "Your heart rate is between 47-50. We usually only see a pulse that low in really active people." Oh, fark you.

As a morbidly underweight individual, I'm getting a kick out of this thread.

I don't care. Fatties are still gross.

Knucklepopper: I don't care. Fatties are still gross.

I'm doing the truffle-shuffle at you right now. UBBLAH-UBBLAH-UBBLAH-UBBLAH!

Gyrfalcon: Beauf:
I think most people already know that you are not necessarily going to die at 40 if you are overweight and that is all that this really shows. What is does not refute, however is the fact that you are much more likely to suffer from certain health issues if you are overweight. The likelyhood of those health issues goes up as your bodyfat level goes up. You may not suffer from those issues, but you are rolling the dice. I think we should encourage people to live healthy lifestyles. Pointing out that some people who smoke two packs a day live to 100 does not benefit anyone.

No argument there. "I mean, look at Keith Richards! He does all that shiat and he's still alive!"

But the other part of the article was that it is important to not only look at a person's weight, but whether or not they are healthy at that weight, and not just say OK, you're obese, time for the lap-band surgery! where people at a lower WEIGHT but poorer HEALTH might actually need the intervention more. And I also agree with that.

I would agree, but I think that people will take the wrong message from this.

ctrl+f "jolli"

No results.

Sadness...

EnderWiggnz: NkThrasher: BMI is an amazingly stupid scale. It needs to be said any time BMI comes up.

ayup.

if you look at my BMI, i'm morbidly obese.

if you look AT ME, and any relevant measurements (BP, heartrate, etc), I'm in damn good health, and my actualy body fat % is no where close to what BMI would indicate. My doctor agrees with me.

Intense, long term personal workout habits and a large quantity of muscles will do that to you. Just as will eating like shiat, but not a lot but not excersizing at all will give you a perfect BMI and shiatty health.

This keeps on being brought up, that BMI is not the only measure of health. This is true of BMI, age or just about any other single measure.

In the real world, the doctor looks at you and can tell the difference between "high BMI due to fat" and "high BMI due to Schwartzenegger-like build" pretty easily. Used as one _part_ of an exam, the BMI helps quantify the information in a way that can help guide treatment.

If your doctor looks only at your age/BMI/etc. and prescribes a treatment, he/she is a quack.

But if your doctor refuses to account for your age/BMI/etc. when prescribing a treatment because none of these measures alone are perfect, then he/she is a quack.

These measures are meant to be used by human beings with good judgment.

/Statistician comment: On a personal level, age/BMI/etc. is not very predictive of which of any given pair of patients will live longer. On a population level, they're about as reliable as sunrise or gravity: The average livespan of people who are 40 years old today will not be greater than that of people who are 30 years old today.

Our Sunday special is brie, shaved prosciutto, and carmelizd mangos.

I was a healthy fat person (triglycerides, cholesterol, lipid level, blood pressure, et al were all in the healthy range), and would shock doctors whenever I got a physical. Then came the day when I broke my ankle and had to be sedentary for 3 months. At the end of the 3 month, I was the typically unhealthy fat guy. All that stuff (except diabetes *knock on wood*) hit me with a vengeance. So sure ... there are healthy fat people, but there's still a healthy risk (ha!) that you wont' be for the rest of your life.

draypresct: EnderWiggnz: NkThrasher: BMI is an amazingly stupid scale. It needs to be said any time BMI comes up.

ayup.

if you look at my BMI, i'm morbidly obese.

if you look AT ME, and any relevant measurements (BP, heartrate, etc), I'm in damn good health, and my actualy body fat % is no where close to what BMI would indicate. My doctor agrees with me.

Intense, long term personal workout habits and a large quantity of muscles will do that to you. Just as will eating like shiat, but not a lot but not excersizing at all will give you a perfect BMI and shiatty health.

This keeps on being brought up, that BMI is not the only measure of health. This is true of BMI, age or just about any other single measure.

In the real world, the doctor looks at you and can tell the difference between "high BMI due to fat" and "high BMI due to Schwartzenegger-like build" pretty easily. Used as one _part_ of an exam, the BMI helps quantify the information in a way that can help guide treatment.

If your doctor looks only at your age/BMI/etc. and prescribes a treatment, he/she is a quack.

But if your doctor refuses to account for your age/BMI/etc. when prescribing a treatment because none of these measures alone are perfect, then he/she is a quack.

These measures are meant to be used by human beings with good judgment.

/Statistician comment: On a personal level, age/BMI/etc. is not very predictive of which of any given pair of patients will live longer. On a population level, they're about as reliable as sunrise or gravity: The average livespan of people who are 40 years old today will not be greater than that of people who are 30 years old today.

I agree with everything you said.

The problem, as most things related to medicine in the Good ole US of A, is insurance companies. If I had to go get personal health insurance, instead of group, I would be automatically lumped in a high risk category, purely because of the "rule of thumb" BMI measurement, which then I would have to have documented (by an MD, at my expense) that, "no, really, this guy is in good health, and his weight is due to his workout regiment", even though the casual observer would know that I'm not "morbidly obese".

EnderWiggnz: The problem, as most things related to medicine in the Good ole US of A, is insurance companies. If I had to go get personal health insurance, instead of group, I would be automatically lumped in a high risk category, purely because of the "rule of thumb" BMI measurement, which then I would have to have documented (by an MD, at my expense) that, "no, really, this guy is in good health, and his weight is due to his workout regiment", even though the casual observer would know that I'm not "morbidly obese".

That is a good point. At least it sounds like you have the option of going to a doctor and getting a better estimate of your health. Small consolation, I know. Doc visits are expensive if you don't have insurance.