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(Boing Boing)   Hey, at least our credit rating is just as good as the country that owns us   (boingboing.net) divider line 49
    More: Interesting, Standard and Poor, credit rating  
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7115 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Aug 2011 at 5:54 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-08-09 01:12:01 PM
8% of us, anyway.
 
2011-08-09 02:21:43 PM
"China owning us" is the dumbest meme of all time. I can't believe that the most likely people to believe it are the ones that are most likely to call themselves "patriots." Have some faith in your own country you pants-wetting little biatches.
 
2011-08-09 02:25:08 PM

vygramul: 8% of us, anyway.


This.

Also the US still has an Aaa rating from Moody's, as well as an AAA from Fitch.
 
2011-08-09 05:57:28 PM
America owns America, so you're not so far off there.

/Oh, you mean foreign ownership?
//You hate them because they're not affluent white Americans, don't you, subby?
 
2011-08-09 05:59:18 PM
We own ourselves, so bang on subby.

Unless you're afraid of a color that has a wavelength of about 570 nm
 
2011-08-09 06:01:35 PM

SnakeLee: "China owning us" is the dumbest meme of all time. I can't believe that the most likely people to believe it are the ones that are most likely to call themselves "patriots." Have some faith in your own country you pants-wetting little biatches.


THIS.
 
2011-08-09 06:02:19 PM

ArtosRC: //You hate them because they're not affluent white Americans, don't you, subby?


No, he hates them because he and the rest of the idiot mouthbreathers that constantly espouse this garbage truly do think that China owns 99.9% of the US, facts be damned.
 
2011-08-09 06:05:53 PM
I for one, welcome our new slanty-eyed overlords.
 
2011-08-09 06:11:07 PM

SnakeLee: "China owning us" is the dumbest meme of all time. I can't believe that the most likely people to believe it are the ones that are most likely to call themselves "patriots." Have some faith in your own country you pants-wetting little biatches.


Hint: the people saying it want to own others
 
2011-08-09 06:12:09 PM

Why Would I Read the Article: No, he hates them because he and the rest of the idiot mouthbreathers that constantly espouse this garbage truly do think that China owns 99.9% of the US, facts be damned.


Well they shouldn't have deficit spended us into this big hole if they think that.
 
2011-08-09 06:16:21 PM
so lets see, OPEC owned us, then it was Japan, then Germany, (or was it Germany then Japan?) then the European Union, now China...

subby is a ignorant bed-wetter.
 
2011-08-09 06:20:54 PM

vygramul: 8% of us, anyway.


This (^).
 
2011-08-09 06:23:07 PM
Wow, everyone beat me too it. China "owns" a small fraction of us, which isn't really owning since its due to be paid back in set blocks of time. The Chinese don't do this because we come grovelling to them to please loan us money, but because it is in their best interest to do so since U.S. investments are still way more secure and they have lots of US dollars lying around that they purchase to artificially depress exchanges rates, boosting their exports. Say what you want about too much debt, and long term we definitely have it, but it shouldn't matter who its to.
 
2011-08-09 06:23:41 PM

strathmeyer: SnakeLee: "China owning us" is the dumbest meme of all time. I can't believe that the most likely people to believe it are the ones that are most likely to call themselves "patriots." Have some faith in your own country you pants-wetting little biatches.

Hint: the people saying it want to own others


I don't get this whole idea. How does China not own us? Trace the lines of national debt for every country to their final destination and you arrive at China, just about every time. The only thing keeping them from calling it in is that our military force is capable of keeping theirs from taking what is rightfully their own property.

How does this understanding make it "the dumbest meme of all time"? How is this wrong?
 
2011-08-09 06:24:50 PM
I bet subby is joking. But, it is interesting that everyone quickly started talking about China.
 
2011-08-09 06:25:03 PM
OH and I didn't mean their clearly visible hold on the Treasuries. I meant the complex delineation of all debts possibly owed to them by us through any number of intermediaries.
 
2011-08-09 06:27:18 PM
Oh well...
cdn2.maxim.com
If master wants to take advantage of me behind the woodshed, I guess it's just my burden to bear.

/slave rape is no joking matter
 
2011-08-09 06:29:01 PM

SnakeLee: "China owning us" is the dumbest meme of all time. I can't believe that the most likely people to believe it are the ones that are most likely to call themselves "patriots." Have some faith in your own country you pants-wetting little biatches.


A quick search:
From: http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/tic/Documents/mfh.txt
and
usdebtclock.org
China, Mainland: 1159.8 Billion
Total Foreign: 4514.0 Billion.
Approx 26% of foreign debt. NOT total, foreign-held. Not total.
US National Debt:14591 Billion

China holds 7.95% of the US Debt.

69.1% of the US Debt is NOT foreign-held.


/Canadian
//Learn one fact about your country today, subby. Or two, heck, the bold ones should be easy enough to remember.
 
2011-08-09 06:30:07 PM

The First Four Black Sabbath Albums: I bet subby is joking. But, it is interesting that everyone quickly started talking about China.


Repeat a lie enough...

Why Would I Read the Article: No, he hates them because he and the rest of the idiot mouthbreathers that constantly espouse this garbage truly do think that China owns 99.9% of the US, facts be damned.


The Chinese aren't affluent white Americans. There's some overlay of this Venn diagram.
 
2011-08-09 06:30:31 PM

vygramul: 8% of us, anyway.


Well, 8% of our debt anyway, since we didn't charge them for the food aid we've sent them for the past 40 years.
 
2011-08-09 06:32:01 PM

omegazeto: The only thing keeping them from calling it in is that our military force is capable of keeping theirs from taking what is rightfully their own property.


Calling it in?

You know, when you sign a contract to loan money to someone, and the contract specifies that the money is to be repaid on a set timetable, you don't get to "call it in" whenever you want.

Borrowing money is paying for the convenience of having money now rather than later. You can't charge for the use of the money and then decide not to render the service the other guy paid for (i.e., having the money now).
 
2011-08-09 06:46:03 PM
omegazeto:The only thing keeping them from calling it in is that our military force is capable of keeping theirs from taking what is rightfully their own property.

financialinstrumentsdontworkthatway.jpg
 
2011-08-09 07:10:19 PM
I've lived long enough to see Canada become one of the worlds last countries to have AAA credit.
 
2011-08-09 07:10:41 PM
They all use rote memorization anyway. I say we give them a test on how much we owe them on Friday. They'll have forgotten by Monday...

;)


/BTW @ Lucy Liu freak: She is an insane and fake biatch according to my industry insider. I always thought she looked nasty anyway. Those freckles look like someone had a spatta on her face and chest lol.
 
2011-08-09 07:18:29 PM
China, with an S&P bond rating of "AA-", is actually two grades below the United States' rating of "AA+".

This colormap is pointless. Just go to the "List of countries by credit rating" Wikipedia page and sort the tables as desired.
 
2011-08-09 07:27:12 PM
The top 2% of your country owns you, and the 98% are always going to be their biatches.

Yeah, that's much better.
 
2011-08-09 07:28:51 PM
the problem isn't that roughly 30 percent of our debt is "foreign held". it's that much of it was issued contingent upon the US maintaining it's credit rating. now that it's been downgraded, the owners could in theory "cash in" and we might not have the money to pay.

then, as the headline alludes, the owners of our debt could metaphorically "repossess" America.

/stay in school
 
2011-08-09 07:49:46 PM

NetOwl: You know, when you sign a contract to loan money to someone, and the contract specifies that the money is to be repaid on a set timetable, you don't get to "call it in" whenever you want.


They can't call it in, but they can sell it off.

If, and that's a big if, they chose to sell US bonds they could drive down the market price which would make it tricky for the US to raise more funds.

Fortunately, the Republicans in congress are in favour of cutting borrowing and spending. Unfortunately, history shows that they will completely forget the importance of spending restraint as soon as a Republican is in the Whitehouse.

Any American who really wants to see the debt problem addressed should re-elect Obama, but fill congress with Republicans, but that would involve putting aside mindless partisanship.

Good luck with that.
 
2011-08-09 08:04:15 PM
Here is the CIA's list of public debt by nation, expressed as a percentage of GDP.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2186rank. h tml

(Copy-paste. Link didn't work)

Japan owes the most, at 225.80% of GDP, while Libya owes the least at 3.3%. The US #38 58.90%, while China is #113 with 17.5% of their GDP. China's public debt is actually greater than the portion of the US debt owed to China.

Every country seems to be borrowing, but I'm not sure who is doing all the lending.
 
2011-08-09 08:05:59 PM

ecalcott: the problem isn't that roughly 30 percent of our debt is "foreign held". it's that much of it was issued contingent upon the US maintaining it's credit rating. now that it's been downgraded, the owners could in theory "cash in" and we might not have the money to pay.

then, as the headline alludes, the owners of our debt could metaphorically "repossess" America.


Good luck trying with our military and citizenry.
 
2011-08-09 08:08:27 PM
BarryJV: Fortunately, the Republicans in congress are in favour of cutting borrowing and spending. Unfortunately, history shows that they will completely forget the importance of spending restraint as soon as a Republican is in the Whitehouse.

Any American who really wants to see the debt problem addressed should re-elect Obama, but fill congress with moderate Republicans, but that would involve putting aside mindless partisanship.


Good luck with that.

FTFY; Tea Party fantasists and hard-right "anything to depose Obama" wingnuts are not going to help matters.
 
2011-08-09 08:31:13 PM
www.bitlogic.com
 
2011-08-09 08:53:50 PM

SnakeLee: "China owning us" is the dumbest meme of all time. I can't believe that the most likely people to believe it are the ones that are most likely to call themselves "patriots." Have some faith in your own country you pants-wetting little biatches.


and THIS is why Fark needs a "like" button!
 
2011-08-09 09:07:27 PM

ecalcott: the problem isn't that roughly 30 percent of our debt is "foreign held". it's that much of it was issued contingent upon the US maintaining it's credit rating. now that it's been downgraded, the owners could in theory "cash in" and we might not have the money to pay.

then, as the headline alludes, the owners of our debt could metaphorically "repossess" America

img240.imageshack.us.

 
2011-08-09 09:20:37 PM

ecalcott: the problem isn't that roughly 30 percent of our debt is "foreign held". it's that much of it was issued contingent upon the US maintaining it's credit rating. now that it's been downgraded, the owners could in theory "cash in" and we might not have the money to pay.


I'd like to see a source for that because I'm pretty sure there is nothing in those instruments that says we promise to maintain the credit rating. We just promise to make the payments on time.
 
2011-08-09 09:24:14 PM
"If you owe the bank a million dollars, they own you. If you owe the bank a billion dollars, you own them." Not sure who said that but it's an interesting thought when you're talking trillions.
 
2011-08-09 09:34:16 PM

mikemil828: omegazeto:The only thing keeping them from calling it in is that our military force is capable of keeping theirs from taking what is rightfully their own property.

financialinstrumentsdontworkthatway.jpg


Hahaha, sure they don't. Whatever helps you sleep at night. But really, the final say in every single thing happening internationally on this planet is who has more leverage over the other. And when we're talking about leverage, Military trumps economic and political any day. Nobody thinks the US is going to fail because half of America hates Obama. If we lost half our armed forces, instead of bickering about politicians we would certainly be more antsy about military action against us.

And hey, to you and other repliers, how bout when you naysay me, you maybe make some decent use of yourself by providing some sort of citation. Anyone can say I'm wrong, do some internet footwork.
 
2011-08-09 09:34:18 PM

Amos Quito: Every country seems to be borrowing, but I'm not sure who is doing all the lending.


Here's a quick summary:

Have you got a friend that you go to lunch with periodically? I'm in a concert band and we go to the pub afterwards. We take turns buying nachos or fries to go with the drinks. I tend to pay more often since I have a more reliable income than a lot of the other people. I don't think too much of it and figure that it will work out close enough in the long run.

Now, what if I had tracked every single expense at the pub? It would show that I owed Sam $5 for the time he bought the nachos, and Sam owed me $10 for the two times I picked them up. So really, Sam owes me $5, not that I care. If we extrapolate that hundreds of times, then we'd probably get into hundreds or even thousands of dollars owed across a few dozen people.

Next, to make this confusing, let's say I also happened to make nachos at my house. I could say to Sam, "Hey man, next time you want nachos I'll sell them to you at my cost, just $1 for the chips and toppings and $1 for the cheese." What I would do then, were I a country, is say that Sam owes me those $2 as a credit towards later nacho purchases at his house.

If, instead of nachos, I liked fighter jets, steel to build ships, and foodstuffs for the people living in my house, then we could be talking $5-$10 billion.

There's probably a way to figure out who owes what to whom and reduce all countries' debts substantially, but every time I get started on the math I wake up with a headache in a white room and have trouble remembering where I work.
 
2011-08-09 10:00:41 PM
a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net
 
2011-08-09 10:19:08 PM

theMagni: Amos Quito: Every country seems to be borrowing, but I'm not sure who is doing all the lending.

Here's a quick summary:

Have you got a friend that you go to lunch with periodically? I'm in a concert band and we go to the pub afterwards. We take turns buying nachos or fries to go with the drinks. I tend to pay more often since I have a more reliable income than a lot of the other people. I don't think too much of it and figure that it will work out close enough in the long run.

Now, what if I had tracked every single expense at the pub? It would show that I owed Sam $5 for the time he bought the nachos, and Sam owed me $10 for the two times I picked them up. So really, Sam owes me $5, not that I care. If we extrapolate that hundreds of times, then we'd probably get into hundreds or even thousands of dollars owed across a few dozen people.

Next, to make this confusing, let's say I also happened to make nachos at my house. I could say to Sam, "Hey man, next time you want nachos I'll sell them to you at my cost, just $1 for the chips and toppings and $1 for the cheese." What I would do then, were I a country, is say that Sam owes me those $2 as a credit towards later nacho purchases at his house.

If, instead of nachos, I liked fighter jets, steel to build ships, and foodstuffs for the people living in my house, then we could be talking $5-$10 billion.

There's probably a way to figure out who owes what to whom and reduce all countries' debts substantially, but every time I get started on the math I wake up with a headache in a white room and have trouble remembering where I work.



So what you're saying is that, Japan is screwed but Libya is in great shape - aside from Quadd.. Ghadd.. Khadd... oh screw it, THIS GUY

tundratabloids.com


Doesn't really make any sense - we count payables, but not receivables?

Anyway, thanks for trying. I owe you one. ;-)
 
2011-08-09 10:21:10 PM
How can Syria be ranked higher than Israel or equivalent to the US?!?!
 
2011-08-09 10:24:40 PM
When they finally take over, I really want to be a house boy - I don't want to sleep out in the shed with the rest. I'm wondering if I should learn Mandarin or Cantonese? Please reply quickly. I want to know which Rosetta Stone package I should put in my Amazon cart.
 
2011-08-09 10:30:30 PM

theMagni: SnakeLee: "China owning us" is the dumbest meme of all time. I can't believe that the most likely people to believe it are the ones that are most likely to call themselves "patriots." Have some faith in your own country you pants-wetting little biatches.

A quick search:
From: http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/tic/Documents/mfh.txt
and
usdebtclock.org
China, Mainland: 1159.8 Billion
Total Foreign: 4514.0 Billion.
Approx 26% of foreign debt. NOT total, foreign-held. Not total.
US National Debt:14591 Billion

China holds 7.95% of the US Debt.

69.1% of the US Debt is NOT foreign-held.

/Canadian
//Learn one fact about your country today, subby. Or two, heck, the bold ones should be easy enough to remember.


After the past few days on the stock market, we may hold a bit more of it now since some people bailed on stocks and shifted into T-Bills, since they are betting with the downgrade that the interest rate will go up a smidge because of the new rating. "Will have to pay more to borrow" is the theory.

But hey, you know, if telling people they might be eating rice soon because some other country is going to own us sells a few more of them, why not I guess. Seems like a powerful marketing tool.

/It cracks me up also when people say that
 
2011-08-09 11:48:22 PM
www.thenotebook.org

So if China owns us, then are we gonna get a beat down from our Chinese Tiger Mothers for dropping a grade?
 
2011-08-10 09:36:35 AM

omegazeto: mikemil828: omegazeto:The only thing keeping them from calling it in is that our military force is capable of keeping theirs from taking what is rightfully their own property.

financialinstrumentsdontworkthatway.jpg

Hahaha, sure they don't. Whatever helps you sleep at night. But really, the final say in every single thing happening internationally on this planet is who has more leverage over the other. And when we're talking about leverage, Military trumps economic and political any day. Nobody thinks the US is going to fail because half of America hates Obama. If we lost half our armed forces, instead of bickering about politicians we would certainly be more antsy about military action against us.

And hey, to you and other repliers, how bout when you naysay me, you maybe make some decent use of yourself by providing some sort of citation. Anyone can say I'm wrong, do some internet footwork.


You're the one making a positive assertion. You have to provide the proof.
 
2011-08-10 11:51:44 AM

omegazeto: mikemil828: omegazeto:The only thing keeping them from calling it in is that our military force is capable of keeping theirs from taking what is rightfully their own property.

financialinstrumentsdontworkthatway.jpg

Hahaha, sure they don't. Whatever helps you sleep at night. But really, the final say in every single thing happening internationally on this planet is who has more leverage over the other. And when we're talking about leverage, Military trumps economic and political any day. Nobody thinks the US is going to fail because half of America hates Obama. If we lost half our armed forces, instead of bickering about politicians we would certainly be more antsy about military action against us.

And hey, to you and other repliers, how bout when you naysay me, you maybe make some decent use of yourself by providing some sort of citation. Anyone can say I'm wrong, do some internet footwork.


Read the bolded points, with citations, that I said in the original comment I made in this thread.

Only 30% of the US debt is owned by foreigners, and of that only 26% (7% of total) is owned by China. The next biggest creditor is Japan, which is a US Protectorate, and then the UK, which won't ever call in their debt. Both of those countries (together) own more of the US debt than China.

So it is not "rightfully China's property". The US is owned by -- get this -- the US, which owns 70% of its debt. Texas isn't going to invade DC to recover their T-Bills or repo the Washington monument. Likewise, China doesn't want to stop the flow of commerce from China to the US. If they call in our debt, the US will start taxing the crap out of imports from SE Asia.

I agree with you about the military strength and I'm glad it's the US that's the world police instead of Russia or China. However, war's going to look a lot different now. A lot more electronics and subtlety, a lot less explosions and atomics. And despite all the doom and gloom you'll read about China having a great cyber attack group, remember that the US has been the best in the world at signals intelligence and electronic warfare since the 40s. They just don't issue press releases every week about how awesome they are.
 
2011-08-10 03:23:05 PM
You think these are IOUs? The US doesn't operate on "call in" debts.

Anyway, if the US could theoretically be forced to "pay back" China, it would hurt, but we could do it. On the other hand, if we decided to stop borrowing from China (in other words, buying way more of their crap than they buy of ours) China would collapse into a conflagration that would make London's troubles look like a children's birthday party.

China is totally dependant on continuing its trade relation with the US. They have no leverage. We have nothing to fear from them.

Also, are people really so ignorant that they can't distinguish between hodling debt and owning a country?
 
2011-08-10 05:24:07 PM

Haulin' Oats: FTFY; Tea Party fantasists and hard-right "anything to depose Obama" wingnuts are not going to help matters.


Yes they are, that's the point, as soon as politicians start agreeing about things, you can guarantee that the first thing they'll agree on is how to spend your money.

Of course, maybe you don't care about the level of debt in which case just vote for the Republicans if you'd like the last few cents you earn to be spent killing brown people abroad or the Democrats if you'd like the last few cents you earn to be spent keeping brown people just below the poverty line at home.
 
2011-08-10 06:59:40 PM

BarryJV: Haulin' Oats: FTFY; Tea Party fantasists and hard-right "anything to depose Obama" wingnuts are not going to help matters.

Yes they are, that's the point, as soon as politicians start agreeing about things, you can guarantee that the first thing they'll agree on is how to spend your money.


I didn't say I wanted them to agree. I want them to be willing to compromise. Grandstanding and brinksmanship is clearly doing us harm. Single-party control of the government has done us harm in the past. There must be a middle ground. Have we become so polarized that we can't even entertain the thought of seeking it?

Of course, maybe you don't care about the level of debt in which case just vote for the Republicans if you'd like the last few cents you earn to be spent killing brown people abroad or the Democrats if you'd like the last few cents you earn to be spent keeping brown people just below the poverty line at home.

...Maybe so.

Look. Just because I don't mind paying taxes (in the words of Oliver Wendell Holmes, "with them I buy civilization") doesn't mean I don't care about our level of debt or about the irresponsible ways in which those monies are frequently spent. I do. But the solution isn't easy; no one person or party has all the answers. We need smart people rationally seeking practical improvements, starting now. All this fiery political theater bullshiat is accomplishing nothing positive.
 
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