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(Salon)   Spending a lot of time trying to send your kids to schools with "smaller class sizes?" Guess what; class size doesn't matter. At least, not until you get to college   ( ) divider line
    More: PSA  
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4258 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Aug 2011 at 10:58 PM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

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2011-08-07 09:23:48 PM  

Relatively Obscure: So.. TFA indicates that small class sizes have been shown to be helpful, and have long-lasting benefits, but that other stuff might also be important so fark it.

No one is saying that small class sizes is not a benefit...... just that the cost might not be worth it given other possible approaches.... like improving teacher quality.

Option A: Two teachers, each paid $30,000, with a class size of 15.
Option B: One teacher, paid $60,000, with a class size of 30.

We know small class size improves student achievement, it's just that the amount isn't that much given the large costs associated with increased teachers. Plus, as the California example in the article states, small class size is not a benefit if your teacher sucks. Good teachers also have a positive effect on student achievement. Given that money is limited what will give us the bigger bang for our buck.
2011-08-07 09:50:18 PM  

Abox: liverleef: In hindsight I suspect I had (have) ADD.

I was/am in the same boat with the likely ADD. I got pretty bad grades in school due to not studying, and didn't really start to improve until halfway through college when I began to compensate for the ADD...earplugs, dungeon-like study rooms, etc. It carries over into work today...I have Outlook reminders for every stupid little thing and have to regularly stop people mid-sentence to start over when I realize they're saying something important.

LOL, oh god that sounds really familiar.
2011-08-08 12:09:11 AM  
sure you are being trolled.

Aunt Crabby: flunk_your_mother:
flunk_your_mother: How specialized do you need to be to explain the significance of Louis XIV ignoring his financial advisor (world), Federalists and anti-federalists (US), multiplier effect (Econ), or PACs (Gov)? Kids need to just have a basic understanding, not expertise.

Math and Science could be exceptions; however as they already are specialized and the US sucks at kicking out STEM literate kids...

English wouldn't matter because it's just glorified social sciences. There is no intensive move to associate literary devices and the like to anything outside of English.

Cut English and just make it a component of every other subject.

Having cadres of students works when teachers are given opportunities to collaborate and you have a PLC. If you farm kids to (theoretically) 24 different teachers during their time in HS, students do not walk away with the confidence of continuity.

Co-teaching is a tool in my district to shut down the special-day classes and mainstream the kids. The only advantage I see is having "back-up".

Am I being trolled?

Just tell me. I can take it.

/Sure, cut English and put even less focus on Social Sciences than we have now. Sounds great.
//Confidence of continuity. Riiiiiight.

Sure you're being trolled.

In sunny CA students get 7 years of SS and English and 5 yrs of Math and Science - which is backwards to me.

I don't know what State you are in, but apparently it has all of the answers.

I do not understand the fetish with dividing kids by age and subject when they are being introduced to the material for the first time. It creates general gaps of learning - see Gatto.

I covered an English class that started the novel, I know Why the Caged Bird Sings. That's all history.

I was able to teach the novel in a way that relates back to history and the civil rights movement. The beginning is about how Maya was conditioned to not like her appearance.

Geometry should be taught in woodshop, health in PE, math in Art...we don't do that. We break learning into six categories and tell them when it starts and stops. Kids aren't cars on an assembly line. We're post-industrial and need to start acting like it.
2011-08-08 02:06:16 AM  

jaerik: One-on-one instruction time is only more valuable in societies that insist on treating every child as an individual and their peers as a distraction.

There is no relation between academic achievement and class sizes once you start comparing internationally. The countries consistently at the top of international achievement tend to have class sizes far bigger than ours, but incorporate teaching methods that provide group pressure to succeed -- a concept considered almost immoral, here.

...We're in America.

In Sweden, I doubt they give a fark, because the idea is that you ALL succeed or ALL fail. In America, the idea is that ONE person can succeed or fail on their own.

Unless you feel like singlehandedly changing America's culture, and quite honestly our culture is just as beautiful and interesting as any other (except for the idiots, of course), you might want to try working with what you've already got.

/I don't often say this, but the American Way is a good thing here.
2011-08-08 02:31:10 AM  

Cataholic: So if European nations are spending about 2/3 of what we spend on education per pupil, how is it that we need to spend even more to do better?

protip: When you compare health care spending in the US compared to Europe with similar results, you don't hear many people saying the US needs to spend more on health care

2011-08-08 02:59:57 AM  

FubarBDilligaf: Cataholic: So if European nations are spending about 2/3 of what we spend on education per pupil, how is it that we need to spend even more to do better?

protip: When you compare health care spending in the US compared to Europe with similar results, you don't hear many people saying the US needs to spend more on health care


That's like saying smaller class sizes lead to better results
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