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(LA Times)   We have 100 years to finish the warp drive Captain. I'm giving her all she's got   (latimes.com) divider line 166
    More: Interesting, team captain, reality TV series, laser guns, reading a book, Jules Verne, DARPA  
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17778 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Aug 2011 at 10:03 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



166 Comments   (+0 »)
   

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2011-08-06 11:05:23 PM  

Lt. Cheese Weasel: There is no warp drive. You cannot bend time/space. You cannot travel at the speed of light.


Sounds like you need a wee nip o' inspiration.

www.gumbopages.com
 
2011-08-06 11:06:51 PM  

IntotheAbyss: Khan


spin359: no one read the article......

"By Amina Khan, Los Angeles Times"


Came in to point out this exact thing.
 
2011-08-06 11:07:02 PM  

DamnYankees: We might someday figure out a way to increase the speed of light, perhaps?


We'd likely need to build a custom universe to do that. This one, from all indications, has that value hard-coded in as a constant.
 
2011-08-06 11:07:38 PM  
2.bp.blogspot.com

Can we still raise the Yamato?

Wave Motion Engine IS a pretty badass name for a propulsion system. I think our specs should include a similar gun in front, for destroying, you know, enemies.
 
2011-08-06 11:09:29 PM  
Step 1a: Develop self-contained biosphere on earth, sealed off from everything except sunlight, that passes a 100 year endurance test while inhabited and is able to maintain an advanced society inside.
Step 1b: Develop a nuclear reactor with controller AI that can maintain it for at least 100 years.
Step 1c: Develop the optical telescopes with 10000 mile baselines needed to visually inspect the Centauri system

Step 2: Do not pass step 2 until you've actually passed step 1a. No, this is important you dingus. If you can't do it in a dome in a mountain valley, don't waste your time on the most expensive suicide ever.

Step 3: Develop self-directing seed factories to prepare starship from an asteroid

Step 4: Fuel up with 100 years worth of nuclear reactor rods and enough nuclear explosives to get up to and then down from 10% lightspeed and let 'er rip.

/brb, Outpost 2 calls me
 
2011-08-06 11:09:30 PM  

phrawgh: Quite a few other things need to take place first and we've already missed the mark on many of them...
1992
the Eugenics Wars start
1996
the Eugenics Wars end
1999
Voyager VI is launched

21st century

2002
The interstellar probe Nomad is launched.
2009
The first successful Earth-Saturn spaceprobe mission takes place.
2012
The world's first self-sustaining civic environment, Millennium Gate, which became the model for the first habitat on Mars, completed in Portage Creek, Indiana.
Sleeper ships are made obsolete.
2024
The 'reunification' of Ireland.

2032
Ares-IV, a manned mission to Mars is launched.
Zefram Cochrane is born
2037
The spaceship Charybdis makes an attempt to leave the solar system.
2053
World War III ends and the Earth is left devastated by the nuclear carnage of it. Scientific advancement continues, however.
2063
The past events of Star Trek: First Contact. Zefram Cochrane makes the first human warp flight with the Phoenix. This attracts the Vulcans and they make first contact with humans.


Some of that sci-fi stuff I can maybe buy. But the Irish reunifying? Never.
 
2011-08-06 11:12:23 PM  
I found this really insulting to both scientists and engineers:

If you could have had James Clerk Maxwell and Guglielmo Marconi and Albert Einstein sit around a lunch table in the early 1900s, they would have had all the math necessary to create an iPhone. But there's nothing that they could have done to characterize the integrated circuits, the satellites, the communication links or the Internet, to draw a plan that would have led them to an iPhone until Apple introduced it 100 years later.

An iphone? Is he serious? Like that's some pinnacle of technology? I had an iphone, it farking sucked. A cheezy ass Sanyo phone was way better for, you know, actually speaking to people and hearing them, something I'm sure Marconi would appreciate.

And no, they would not have "had all the math" necessary. That's a joke.

And also, Maxwell had been dead for a while.

Man people say dumb things.
 
2011-08-06 11:16:50 PM  

t3knomanser: DamnYankees: We might someday figure out a way to increase the speed of light, perhaps?

We'd likely need to build a custom universe to do that. This one, from all indications, has that value hard-coded in as a constant.


We don't know that. We used to think time was constant.
 
2011-08-06 11:18:22 PM  
One day, I shall invent the Space Contraceptive! I will harness the characteristics of space travel and use them to let men release the galactic adventurer in them inside a woman's black hole without causing a baby star to be born!
 
2011-08-06 11:18:52 PM  

urban.derelict: DavidVincent: Go outside and look around you. This is it. We are never leaving this rock. Get used to the idea. Play ball with your kids. Take a canoe trip down the Snake. Kiss your mother. Plant a tree.

Those who say it cannot be done should GTFO of the way of those who are doing it.

/64k ram should be enough for anyone


The thing is, we're not doing it. Warp drive, hyper space, all those faster than light travel techniques in science fiction are pure fiction with no real science behind them. Faster than light travel is a convenient plot device to move the story along. It is not based on anything real. Before the Wright brothers flew an airplane they'd seen animals that could fly. We have never, ever seen or heard of any means to warp space or jump from point A to point B instantaneously, except possibly for mathematical flights of fancy. All we know is that Chekhov pushes a button and wheeee, we're moving at 2x the speed of light. It's magic.

100 years before the Wright brothers we had already flown in hot air balloons, and primitive gliders had been made that pointed in the right direction for heavier than air flight. 100 years before the computer age we had Babbage and his mechanical computing devices. If we're within 100 years of warp drive, where are the laboratory results that hint at how to do it?
 
2011-08-06 11:22:29 PM  

GranoblasticMan: So... In other words, they're not at all serious about this project.


$500k in seed money sounds OK. I hope you realize they aren't going to build anything with this. This basically gets the ideas out there and developed so they can give them real money in 5, 10, 20 years if appropriate.

My guess is nothing will come of it, but it is worth a shot. NASA spent about 10 years with a one-man office trying to get something sparked, mostly thru universities. The wink wink nudge nudge was that if someone came up with a really cool idea, there would be some $$ to juice it up. Never happened. Going to another star is going to be a biatch and a half.
 
2011-08-06 11:24:00 PM  

LrdPhoenix: Wow, $500,000, I bet that's enough that you could actually design and build a 1:100 scale model of a starship.


What does God need with a 1:100 scale model of a starship?
 
2011-08-06 11:24:30 PM  

DamnYankees: We used to think time was constant.


No, we used to think time was measurable against an absolute frame of reference. That's very different. I find it funny that you think that's the objectionable part, not the bit about building custom universes.

But regardless, there's a reason that I said by all indications. Based on all the information that we have, it's a very strong argument that universal constants are constants. New information will allow us to revisit that decision, but we cannot make assumptions based on the information that we don't have.
 
2011-08-06 11:25:52 PM  

CaptainSmartass: Some of that sci-fi stuff I can maybe buy. But the Irish reunifying? Never.


It's like Implying West Virginia will stop being the meth capital of the world.
 
2011-08-06 11:31:08 PM  
...and none of you wants to live long enough to see it.
 
2011-08-06 11:33:42 PM  

DamnYankees: Warp drive was invented April 5, 2063.

We have WAY less than 100 years, subby.


Done in one.
 
2011-08-06 11:44:42 PM  

n301dp: LrdPhoenix: Wow, $500,000, I bet that's enough that you could actually design and build a 1:100 scale model of a starship.


What does God need with a 1:100 scale model of a starship?


I was actually thinking more along the line of Zoolander and the school for ants quote, but that works too I suppose.
 
2011-08-06 11:46:15 PM  
If we want to explore the fabric of the universe, we need both warp drive and weft drive.
 
2011-08-06 11:46:46 PM  

steve_wmn:
Before the Wright brothers flew an airplane they'd seen animals that could fly. We have never, ever seen or heard of any means to warp space or jump from point A to point B instantaneously, except possibly for mathematical flights of fancy.


It is people like you that were responsible for the dark ages. You need to look around you.
There are new discoveries everyday.
There is at least one thing that has already been proven to be faster than light.
Quantum entanglement (new window) is instantaneous no matter the distance. Although we have not yet figured a way to exploit this for FTL communications or travel, there is a some mechanism in the universe that underlies the observed results. There are many scientists working with Quantum entanglement, even as I write this. I fully believe we will see FTL communications in my lifetime. And there are many other theories at the edge of our understanding that may open up space to us someday. Warp Drive (new window) No we can't make it work yet, but what about in a hundred years, a thousand years? or
Worm Holes No once again, not yet. But someday, who knows what secrets are yet to be discovered. We must keep trying, despite backwards luddites like you.
 
2011-08-06 11:47:41 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: DamnYankees: Warp drive was invented April 5, 2063.

We have WAY less than 100 years, subby.

Indeed.

And for it to be finished by April 5, 2063, someone will have to have a sound concept by the late 2040s or early 2050s.

/and let's not forget World War 3.


We're seriously behind schedule for the Eugenics War.
 
2011-08-06 11:52:13 PM  
i72.photobucket.com

We'll just have to fold space and meet ZALGOZ
 
2011-08-06 11:56:15 PM  

phrawgh: Quite a few other things need to take place first and we've already missed the mark on many of them...
1992
the Eugenics Wars start
1996
the Eugenics Wars end
1999
Voyager VI is launched

21st century

2002
The interstellar probe Nomad is launched.
2009
The first successful Earth-Saturn spaceprobe mission takes place.
2012
The world's first self-sustaining civic environment, Millennium Gate, which became the model for the first habitat on Mars, completed in Portage Creek, Indiana.
Sleeper ships are made obsolete.
2024
The 'reunification' of Ireland.
2032
Ares-IV, a manned mission to Mars is launched.
Zefram Cochrane is born
2037
The spaceship Charybdis makes an attempt to leave the solar system.
2053
World War III ends and the Earth is left devastated by the nuclear carnage of it. Scientific advancement continues, however.
2063
The past events of Star Trek: First Contact. Zefram Cochrane makes the first human warp flight with the Phoenix. This attracts the Vulcans and they make first contact with humans.


So how you doin?
 
2011-08-07 12:06:35 AM  
Though it may sound like a premise of a science-fiction show or reality-TV series, the research and development arm of the U.S. military is launching a study to find the technologies necessary for interstellar travel.

Because NASA's entire budget ain't even a thang when compared with the US Military's air conditioning budget, I hears...
 
2011-08-07 12:12:52 AM  
At first I was all...
images2.wikia.nocookie.net
Then I was all...
images1.wikia.nocookie.net

/hot
 
2011-08-07 12:23:58 AM  

GielZwerg: At first I was all...
[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 622x460]
Then I was all...
[images1.wikia.nocookie.net image 461x461]

/hot


No doubt.
At first I was like...
images2.wikia.nocookie.net
But then I was all...
images2.wikia.nocookie.net
/hot like a pon farr night sweat
 
2011-08-07 12:28:40 AM  

Lt. Cheese Weasel: There is no warp drive. You cannot bend time/space. You cannot travel at the speed of light.

Go outside and look around you. This is it. We are never leaving this rock. Get used to the idea. Play ball with your kids. Take a canoe trip down the Snake. Kiss your mother. Plant a tree.

/and make me a sammich


In my opinion you are wrong, but I don't think either of us will be around by the time I could actually say "I told you so". Regardless, there's no reason you can't dream and still take care of the other important stuff you mentioned.
 
2011-08-07 12:28:49 AM  
I think we can all agree that, before spending enormous resources on projects with no clear return value, we need to take care of our own needs HERE, on Earth.

Things we need TODAY. Like, doomsday weapons. And a Death Ray. And may I point out that there's great potential in Killbot technology, but they can't get funding they need.
 
2011-08-07 12:29:02 AM  

n301dp: LrdPhoenix: Wow, $500,000, I bet that's enough that you could actually design and build a 1:100 scale model of a starship.


What does God need with a 1:100 scale model of a starship?


To hug the starship? To envelope that starship?
 
2011-08-07 12:30:50 AM  
We need to nominate an actual Zephram Cochrane so the timeline remains pristine. But that also means we'll need a WWIII too, Not really looking forward to that.
 
2011-08-07 12:33:11 AM  
The laws of physics say that a massive object can't accelerate to the speed of light, or move at the speed of light.

But it doesn't say that you can't have a massive object that ALWAYS moves faster than light. That's where the idea of tachyons comes from. A tachyon would take an infinite amount of energy to *slow it down* to the speed of light.

So faster than light travel is theoretically possible. No one has ever said otherwise. It's just that we have yet to observe it, and it's unlikely that it happens. But the laws of physics say it's *possible*.
 
2011-08-07 12:33:31 AM  

Oznog: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 640x325]

Can we still raise the Yamato?


Unfortunately, she split in two and most of her middle third was pulverized by the
torpedoes and the stress of her sinking:

www.designcowboys.net
 
2011-08-07 12:35:50 AM  

realmolo: The laws of physics say that a massive object can't accelerate to the speed of light, or move at the speed of light.

But it doesn't say that you can't have a massive object that ALWAYS moves faster than light. That's where the idea of tachyons comes from. A tachyon would take an infinite amount of energy to *slow it down* to the speed of light.

So faster than light travel is theoretically possible. No one has ever said otherwise. It's just that we have yet to observe it, and it's unlikely that it happens. But the laws of physics say it's *possible*.


Do you always parrot what non scientists who sound scientific say to you, or do you read and research for yourself?
 
2011-08-07 12:46:38 AM  

GielZwerg: At first I was all...
[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 622x460]
Then I was all...
[images1.wikia.nocookie.net image 461x461]

/hot


The fanboy explanation for that is that TOS Cochrane was what he looked like before radiation poisoning from WW3, And First Contact Cochrane is what he looked like after.
 
2011-08-07 12:48:12 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: GielZwerg: At first I was all...
[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 622x460]
Then I was all...
[images1.wikia.nocookie.net image 461x461]

/hot

The fanboy explanation for that is that TOS Cochrane was what he looked like before radiation poisoning from WW3, And First Contact Cochrane is what he looked like after.


There's a fanboy explanation? And here was me thinking age covered it pretty well.
 
2011-08-07 12:50:33 AM  

Lt. Cheese Weasel: There is no warp drive. You cannot bend time/space. You cannot travel at the speed of light.

Go outside and look around you. This is it. We are never leaving this rock. Get used to the idea. Play ball with your kids. Take a canoe trip down the Snake. Kiss your mother. Plant a tree.

/and make me a sammich


Humans are not birds, we will never be able to fly. Go outside and take a look at the ground. That is it. We are never going to soar through the air in machines. Get used to the idea.
 
2011-08-07 12:53:36 AM  

Skyfrog: You cannot travel at the speed of light sound.


FTFY
 
2011-08-07 01:20:59 AM  

phrawgh: Skyfrog: You cannot travel at the speed of light sound.

FTFY


The speed of sound limitation was pulled out someone's ass though that even something as pedestrian as a whip would violate, while the speed of light limitation is a hard limit on all objects with mass in the universe. The only way we can even conceivably get around the limitation on the speed of light is to bend space/time so two objects are closer, but it is not even clear whether that is really possible or how one would go about doing it.
 
2011-08-07 01:37:18 AM  

shijjiri: Epitaxy of GaAs over a lattice structure to capture solar energy. Geometry of the lattice captures and splits incoming Lm into two primary channels which undergo harmonic synchronization, Beams are projected onto semiconductor surface plates built of tiered Graphene/Silver/Cadmium Sulfide which interface with a network of Li structures connected to a PEO/PANI anode layer. The surfaces of these complex materials are each persisted with a magnetic field to generate surface plasmon resonance as the photon streams impact the surface. Surfaces oppose one another and are of parabolic geometry angled toward a central cylinder of Graphene/Lithium.

The opposing magnetic fields interface with an oscillating field in the central cylinder. In turn this deviates the rate of transmission in a brief but minor fashion that creates repulsive resistance as the stream goes between phases of high and low conductivity. The surges of force creates forward propulsion of the engine that provides a net increase to directional momentum with each cycle.

/What do I win?


I'm thinking a brand shiny new time cube for you!
 
2011-08-07 01:37:28 AM  

SkunkWerks: FirstNationalBastard: GielZwerg: At first I was all...
[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 622x460]
Then I was all...
[images1.wikia.nocookie.net image 461x461]

/hot

The fanboy explanation for that is that TOS Cochrane was what he looked like before radiation poisoning from WW3, And First Contact Cochrane is what he looked like after.

There's a fanboy explanation? And here was me thinking age covered it pretty well.


Actually, it doesn't.

Going by the timeline from earlier in the thread, Zefram Cochrane was only in his 30s during First Contact.

The James Cromwell Cochrane is a rough 30, hence the "spotless TOS Cochrane is from before radiation poisoning" explanation.
 
2011-08-07 01:41:17 AM  

Gwyrddu: phrawgh: Skyfrog: You cannot travel at the speed of light sound.

FTFY

The speed of sound limitation was pulled out someone's ass though that even something as pedestrian as a whip would violate, while the speed of light limitation is a hard limit on all objects with mass in the universe. The only way we can even conceivably get around the limitation on the speed of light is to bend space/time so two objects are closer, but it is not even clear whether that is really possible or how one would go about doing it.



That's the point.
 
2011-08-07 02:00:14 AM  

phrawgh: Gwyrddu: phrawgh: Skyfrog: You cannot travel at the speed of light sound.

FTFY

The speed of sound limitation was pulled out someone's ass though that even something as pedestrian as a whip would violate, while the speed of light limitation is a hard limit on all objects with mass in the universe. The only way we can even conceivably get around the limitation on the speed of light is to bend space/time so two objects are closer, but it is not even clear whether that is really possible or how one would go about doing it.


That's the point.


1) Create a continuous stable beam
2) Create a material capable of mimic Lm properties or invisibility within the beam
3) Enter the beam
4) Engage deviation of while within the beam


Of course of the deviation is imperfect then you may be utterly destroyed. Same with the mimic. Otherwise assuming synchronization you can transpose the property of data between two points when establishing an internal deviation within a continuous beam. You can't travel faster than the beam, but you can entangle and reconfigure the properties of the beam.
 
2011-08-07 02:06:03 AM  

shijjiri: Of course of the deviation is imperfect then you may be utterly destroyed. Same with the mimic. Otherwise assuming synchronization you can transpose the property of data between two points when establishing an internal deviation within a continuous beam. You can't travel faster than the beam, but you can entangle and reconfigure the properties of the beam.


I signed on this ship to practice medicine, not to have my atoms scattered back and forth across space by this gadget!
 
2011-08-07 02:10:22 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: SkunkWerks: FirstNationalBastard: GielZwerg: At first I was all...
[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 622x460]
Then I was all...
[images1.wikia.nocookie.net image 461x461]

/hot

The fanboy explanation for that is that TOS Cochrane was what he looked like before radiation poisoning from WW3, And First Contact Cochrane is what he looked like after.

There's a fanboy explanation? And here was me thinking age covered it pretty well.

Actually, it doesn't.

Going by the timeline from earlier in the thread, Zefram Cochrane was only in his 30s during First Contact.

The James Cromwell Cochrane is a rough 30, hence the "spotless TOS Cochrane is from before radiation poisoning" explanation.


I'm also thinking that it's very possible to explain a thing to death.
 
2011-08-07 02:15:11 AM  

IntotheAbyss: By Amina Khan, Los Angeles Times


KHAN!

Seriously, I think trying to find a way around not being able to travel faster than light may lead to other significant discoveries.

From what I understand about wormholes, which is admittedly very little, is that:

1. They're theoretical.
2. Whenever they're mentioned as means of FTL travel, stability is an issue.
 
2011-08-07 02:17:44 AM  
It's always possible that something like Heim Theory will turn out to be correct. I believe the extended theory allows for the creation of altered space where the speed of light is multiplied by an adjustable factor, or something like that.

The point is that new physics can allow FTL travel as some special case of currently understood laws. Or maybe Relativity turns out to be only mostly correct, like Newtonian physics. One thing is for sure, a hundred years from now people will be posting on the future equivalent of FARK with snide remarks about how foolish all those people back in 2011 were. "Can you believe they actually thought X?"
 
2011-08-07 02:21:24 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: GielZwerg: At first I was all...
[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 622x460]
Then I was all...
[images1.wikia.nocookie.net image 461x461]

/hot

The fanboy explanation for that is that TOS Cochrane was what he looked like before radiation poisoning from WW3, And First Contact Cochrane is what he looked like after.


The 'fanboy' explanation is derived from the TOS episode, where Cochrane told Kirk
that The Companion found him and rejuvinated him.
 
2011-08-07 02:40:08 AM  
Perhaps I'm naiive or just look at it more simplistically, but to me, the fact that something (photons) is moving at the speed of light, proves that something can, becaue something obviously is. The rest is obviously the mindwarping physics to be worked out to make something larger than a photon move at that great speed.

In 100 years? Would be nice. Possible? No idea. I think there are enough people in the world with the needed brilliance to come together and solve this puzzle. Or at least be able to pass on their knowledge, barring the rest of the garbage going on in the world that prohibits such a meeting of minds conceive the hard science and test the hypotheses. No single mind is going to accomplish it. And no shortage of nutjobs that want to make sure their ideas never see the light of day, religious extremeists of any kind notwithstanding.

What should we Start with? Perhaps taking a tiny steel BB and smack it into the Moon for a speed test? The Moon looks like a decent shooting range to me.
 
2011-08-07 02:42:40 AM  

wbaxter: Space travel by warping space is possible. All you need is the energy equivalent of a galaxy, so...uh...good luck with that.


So just change the gravitational constant of the universe.

Geeze.
 
2011-08-07 02:48:58 AM  

steve_wmn: 100 years before the Wright brothers we had already flown in hot air balloons, and primitive gliders had been made that pointed in the right direction for heavier than air flight. 100 years before the computer age we had Babbage and his mechanical computing devices. If we're within 100 years of warp drive, where are the laboratory results that hint at how to do it?


More importantly, people knew that flight was possible, as well as breaking the sound barrier, from physical observations (e.g., birds can fly, bullets can go faster than sound, etc., etc.). So far, there have been no observations that FTL travel by non-quantum objects is possible. FTL transfer of information may be possible, but probably not objects.
 
2011-08-07 03:08:33 AM  
The only way we can even conceivably get around the limitation on the speed of light is to bend space/time so two objects are closer.


Well, could be you don't have to bend a thing, but rather need to find a way through higher space in which the locations already seem to coexist.... or perhaps there is stuff we can't currently conceive. *shrug*

It's probably something our AI robot masters will have to worry about rather than us.
 
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