irrational market is irrational. it was probably overvalued to start with, and now the chicken littles are here and they're causing it to correct.

it's good for 30 year mortgage rates.. :D

To pre-empt the morons: a 500pt Dow drop is NOT a reaction to a policy, it's a reaction to the idea that a small group of people can force the United States to reneg on its debt obligations.

A guy named Dow is losing by 500 points?

/god mode

All my windows are underground with a nice soft hay pile under them.

Thanks for caving to the Republicans again, Obama.

They've managed to get you to go along with wrecking the economy and laying the groundwork for destroying the social safety net. Congratulations, Mr. President..

Gee, a budget bill that cuts spending during a looming recession, does nothing to encourage job growth, and doesn't increase revenues to lower the deficit, and the economic markets aren't encouraged?

Color me shocked.

No need to panic, the Dow is just correcting itself.

H31N0US: Thanks Teabaggers

So, on Fark, when the market crashed with a Republican President and a Democratic Congress... It's the President's fault, when the market crashes with a Democratic President and a half Republican Congress... It's Congress' fault.

Maybe if people would look at this as BOTH sides fault instead of making it a partisan mess, something might get done.

devildog123: H31N0US: Thanks Teabaggers

So, on Fark, when the market crashed with a Republican President and a Democratic Congress... It's the President's fault, when the market crashes with a Democratic President and a half Republican Congress... It's Congress' fault.

Maybe if people would look at this as BOTH sides fault instead of making it a partisan mess, something might get done.

Should we view it as both sides' fault, and thus vote Republican?

Let the Tea Party Recession begin!

Buskethead: Thanks Obama

see the truth of this next post dude

H31N0US: Thanks Teabaggers

Prediction: The discourse in this thread will ultimately be summed up by.

"LIBS!!1!"

"CONS!!1!"

You brought this upon yourselves CEOs.

Sitting upon tons of cash instead of investing in your workforces who would in turn put that money right back into the economy.

U.S. Firms Build Up Record Cash Piles (new window)

Obama = weak leader. Even if he was misguided, at least Bush stuck to his convictions. He did get his Iraq war.

"You know, there are worse ways to go, but I can't think of a more undignified way than auto-erotic defenestration."

Muta: Don't blame Obama. Remember, the GOP won. Boner got what he wanted and Wall Street is voting with their money.

I blame Obama AND the Republicans.

I blame Republicans for pushing a bad policy and I blame Obama for being such a farktarded negotiator that he ended up caving to them, adopting their mantra -- and giving them more in the end than they were asking for in the beginning.

palelizard: Soooo... since Congress is on vacation and can't fund the FAA for a month, does this mean the Dow is dropping because of all the anticipated plane wrecks and terrorism?

Or is it just a bad day?

They got a temporary deal done on the FAA. This is just because everything else sucks.

Styro Foam: This isn't because of the debt deal, no matter how much I want to harp on that. This is because the economic growth statistics from the last few quarters have been revised down. Waaay down.

It's that, plus the deepening financial crisis in Europe. Pretty soon someone over there 'too big to fail' is going to default, and Germany will be either unable or unwilling to finance yet another bailout.

If that leads to another banking crisis over there, we're pretty much screwed.

TravisBickle62: Fark Crosby: Those spending cuts are really helping our economy

there are no spending cuts you moron

Yup, your new here :D

defenestrate is one of my favorite words, so i'm okay with this.

Is it time to convert everything I own into gold yet? Diamonds maybe? Seven legged spiders?

devildog123: H31N0US: Thanks Teabaggers

So, on Fark, when the market crashed with a Republican President and a Democratic Congress... It's the President's fault, when the market crashes with a Democratic President and a half Republican Congress... It's Congress' fault.

Maybe if people would look at this as BOTH sides fault instead of making it a partisan mess, something might get done.

or maybe you know.. it's more complex than simply the party associated with the ass sitting in the chair. perhaps it has something to do with the actions of those people.

but that would be you know.. a reflection of farkIN REALITY and teabagger dumbfarks like you just cannot handle reality.

dumbass.

I personally don't really blame it on anyone in the government (the teabaggers are a bunch of fiscal terrorist asswipes) because:

IT'S A MARKET CORRECTION TRIGGERED BY THE DEBT CEILING shiat - IT WAS COMING ANYWAY. SOMETHING ELSE WOULD HAVE EVENTUALLY TRIPPED IT

Good thing those job creators are using all that money they're saving by not paying taxes to rescue our economy and put everyone back to work.

Obamanomics in Action......

Seriously Wil-e-Coyote was one of his economic advisers....

Thud

miss diminutive: Is it time to convert everything I own into gold yet? Diamonds maybe? Seven legged spiders?

I hear tulips are getting to be popular.

logistic: [ambersparks.files.wordpress.com image 360x360]

srsly.

blame the corporate skin-flutists.

Pssst dude, those are the republicans.

devildog123: H31N0US: Thanks Teabaggers

So, on Fark, when the market crashed with a Republican President and a Democratic Congress... It's the President's fault, when the market crashes with a Democratic President and a half Republican Congress... It's Congress' fault.

Maybe if people would look at this as BOTH sides fault instead of making it a partisan mess, something might get done.

Markets love 1 thing more than anything else: Stability. Companies like to know what expenses they can and cannot take on, and what incomes they can and cannot rely on.

This recent crisis was the DIRECT RESULT of the Tea Party and the GOP threatening to not allow the United States to meet its existing debt obligations. If companies and countries cannot rely on the credit of the United States, then there is no institution they can rely on. If they cannot rely on any institution, that results in instability and market panic.

Once again, this is not a 2 party problem. This is a completely partisan issue.

Lowering vs raising spending? THAT is a two party issue, and that can be done in a variety of ways during the budget process. But this is a small group quite literally holding the markets hostage until they get their way, because they've been unable to get their way through legitimate means.

These are the "fiscal conservatives", who put 10 years of spending increases on credit, now saying "f*ck it. Either give me more of what I want or I won't let you pay off the debts I incurred".

So f*ck them. F*ck anyone who defends their tactics. And f*ck anyone not paying attention and saying "Ugh, politics is ugly, both parties are terrible, both parties are wrong". Saying that means you either aren't following, can't understand basic economics, can't understand basic civics, or all three.

CavalierEternal: Prediction: The discourse in this thread will ultimately be summed up by.

"LIBS!!1!"

"CONS!!1!"

WTF did I just watch?? lol A double wammy to boot.

1.) it's not a market crash (yet)

2.) this is probably based more on Europe than our actions

3.) if we hadn't capitulated to Republican demands, it would have been a LOT worse

organizmx: Exactly. The fact that a small group of American politicians (in this case, the The Tea Party) can actually hold the entire country's (and the world's) economy hostage if they don't get what they want, and that Democrats were willing to let them get away with it, doesn't exactly lead to investor confidence.

This damage was done days and days before the compromise bills was passed. This is a politician created crisis caused by amateur Tea Party Freshman who had no idea what kind of forces they were farking with.


This is retarded.

If this was the case, the markets would have tanked 2 weeks ago, not the day after the deal passed.. especially since the deal was basically smoke and mirrors that don't take effect... if they ever take effect for many years down the line.

If anything, the markets are reacting to the US gov'ts inability to solve any real issue with regard to their debt.

"The legislation will solve this debt crisis and help get the American people back to work." - John Boehner when the House voted on the debt bill this week

Lookin' good so far, eh Johnny?

Here is a link to a PBS piece I cought last night, with two analysts basically saying that the political process is broken, and likely cannot be fixed. (new window)
Keep in mind, these aren't run of the mill pundits you find on Fox or MSNBC. One is from Harvard, the other from Yale...and they both say we're farked.

/I'm scared
//Seriously

archichris: Obamanomics in Action......

Seriously Wil-e-Coyote was one of his economic advisers....

Thud

This has absolutely nothing to do with Obama's economic policies.

Obama has no economic policies.

He is a weak leader who, time and again, has adopted whatever harebrained economic scheme right wingnuts have advocated. You can see it in his stimulus, in his health care law, in his 2010 tax cuts, in his latest budget resolution and in his agreement to raise the debt ceiling. And, the country is suffering from his fecklessness.

Satanicpuppy: Oh. No. It. Dropped. What. Ever. Will. I. Do?

It's not real money. Seriously. You think your 401k is worth a specific dollar amount? It's not. When you *sell* it, it is. If you're not planning on selling, why worry about it?

That was the thing that made me facepalm back in '09 when all those idiots were on the news cashing out their stocks. When the market was ~7000, they SOLD. Now, people are crying because the markets only 11k? Woopty farking do. Think of those poor dumb farkers who sold at 7000, and made that loss real.

Guess how I know you do not know how mutual funds (which most average joes are in) work?

Wait a week or so. Great time to get in on the ground floor of the market if you missed it in 2008.

chopit: Buy opportunity. Think I'll spend a couple grand on stocks.

And shortly thereafter, you will be spending a couple grand for a pair of SOCKS.

SnakeLee: 1.) it's not a market crash (yet)

2.) this is probably based more on Europe than our actions

This might be me just not getting enough foreign news in my diet, but what happened in the last 2 - 3 days that's bigger than the US almost saying "f*ck it" to its bills?

3.) if we hadn't capitulated to Republican demands, it would have been a LOT worse

Are you saying it would have been worse to drag the process past August 2nd, or it would have been worse to have a "balanced approach"?

nekulor: The EU is about to enter a spiraling debt crisis worse than our own, which is why the markets sank. You know what else had this kind of lead-up? WWII.

I can't imagine us being on the right side of a similar war if fascism does indeed come to America wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.

Buskethead: Thanks Obama

It's Wall St.'s birthday present...

essucht: Styro Foam: This isn't because of the debt deal, no matter how much I want to harp on that. This is because the economic growth statistics from the last few quarters have been revised down. Waaay down.

[m2.wnymedia.net image 640x400]

Change. I brought it

What the hell are you talking about? We have had a Republican budget passed in April and then these budget cuts forced on by REPUBLICANs plus the Bush tax cuts.

The economy was recovering until the Tea Party got int congress and decided to start making all these cuts.

IT has a lot to to with the debt deal AND the REPUBLICAN BUDGET PASSED IN APRIL!!

Kazan: IT WAS COMING ANYWAY. SOMETHING ELSE WOULD HAVE EVENTUALLY TRIPPED IT

You are correct, see my post above.

nekulor: The EU is about to enter a spiraling debt crisis worse than our own, which is why the markets sank. You know what else had this kind of lead-up? WWII.

This is why I keep saying: Every 40 - 60 years the Allies should get the gang back together and just bomb the life out of Germany, Italy, and Japan. We'll clearly never agree on how the economy bounced back after WWII, but we all agree that it did. And maybe we just need to please the "World War Gods".

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BUSH TAX CUTS WE HAVE HAD FOR A DECADE?

Is it still too early for that to be taking effect?

rnld: The GOP got the plan they wanted. Own it.

So long as Obama and the Dem Congress own 9% unemployment and the housing bubble.

Styro Foam: This isn't because of the debt deal, no matter how much I want to harp on that. This is because the economic growth statistics from the last few quarters have been revised down. Waaay down.

That's not entirely true.

The debt deal promises to remove TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS from the US economy.

Any reasonable trader is obviously going to assume that that kind of withdrawal is going to hurt economic growth.

Think about it: at a time when the economy is slowing to a near halt, the government decides that it's a great idea to -- again, for emphasis -- remove TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS from the US economy.

How can anyone paying attention NOT expect another recession? How can he not expect serious contraction?

Plus, the Eurozone isn't exactly showing positive signs.

It's funny how the libs blame republicans for Italy and Spain's economies tanking.

Drummer: Can't blame Obama for having to fix the major problems Bush created.

I'm pretty sure anyone who screams at you for this statement would say "OMG how long until he takes responsibility? Hurr"

BUT

Had you said Obama's still fixing Carter's mess they'd begrudgingly agree.

I Said: This might be me just not getting enough foreign news in my diet, but what happened in the last 2 - 3 days that's bigger than the US almost saying "f*ck it" to its bills?

Eurozone Debt Crisis.

Specifically:
"World stock markets tumbled sharply again on Thursday, wiping nearly £50bn off the value of Britain's biggest listed companies, as the eurozone crisis and fears over the global economy sparked another rout in the City.

The FTSE 100 index fell by 191.27 points to close at 5393.14, its lowest closing level since 2 September 2010. At 3.43%, this is the index's biggest daily fall in percentage terms since 30 March 2009, and the biggest points fall since 2 March 2009."

rnld: The GOP g

Then why did so many Republicans vote against it?

stewmadness: Oh, and it's laughable for dems to make John Nobody more accountable than our Leninist president.

GODDAMN YOU'RE A farkIN RETARD

If our president was a Leninist you'd now be a in a farkin gulag in siberia you goddamn farkin jackass unamerican piece of shiat

/yes i'm mad bro, i'm tired of right wing pants poissin cowardly unamerican farktards shooting off their mouth and having no farking idea what the meaning of theords coming out of their mouth is
//if you cannot understand farking modern society get the fark out of the united states you goddamn asshats. stop ruinin the greatest country on the planet with your christian supremacism and your farking "every man is an island" rugged individualist bullshiat

Representative of the unwashed masses: [msnbcmedia3.msn.com image 308x440]

Hey E.U. and U.S.A., PM Sweatervest McLegohair here. Seriously WTF? We're doing ok here and if you keep up this shiat we'll be in the same screwed up situation as you guys soon.

You better knock that crap off. NOW!



Or else I'll eat this kitten.

I Said:
This might be me just not getting enough foreign news in my diet, but what happened in the last 2 - 3 days that's bigger than the US almost saying "f*ck it" to its bills?

At least from what I've been reading, it started because of the European Central Bank was expected to intervene in Italy and Spain, but they only decided to really help Ireland and Portugal. The debt crisis didn't help, but the market wouldn't have dropped 500 points based on that alone.

Are you saying it would have been worse to drag the process past August 2nd, or it would have been worse to have a "balanced approach"?

If we defaulted it would have been catastrophic. I can't believe that anybody that is supported by businesses like the Republican party would even flirt with that idea. It is madness.

This is the thread where we blame this on Republicans, right?

BigBooper: The stupid in this thread is epic. This crash has nothing to do with the debt deal. It's becoming obvious that the WORLD economy is not recovering from the last financial collapse, and that a financial system collapse is about to become a state debt collapse.

In other words, get your heads out of your asses and recognize this is a global problem.

/state=country
//morans

If I can't see it from my house it doesn't exist.

I can see Manhattan, Nassau County, and some water. . . .I blame nassau county. It's full of Republicans.

HA HA - I dumped my stocks three weeks ago.

Hopefully I can use the proceeds to buy a loaf of bread next month.

earthwirm: Corvus: budget

DERP.

Oh you mean the budget that Pelosi totally BAILED on before November 2010. That wasn't GOPs budget, that was Pelosi's budget, she just abdicated her duty.

DERP.

Yeah the Budget Republicans AUTHORED and passed with both a MAJORITY of Republicans in the house and senate.

So you complaint is "It's the Democrats fault because they should of known Republicans were too incompetent to make a budget".

That really is your line of reasoning?:

RexTalionis: I Said: This might be me just not getting enough foreign news in my diet, but what happened in the last 2 - 3 days that's bigger than the US almost saying "f*ck it" to its bills?

Eurozone Debt Crisis.

Specifically:
"World stock markets tumbled sharply again on Thursday, wiping nearly £50bn off the value of Britain's biggest listed companies, as the eurozone crisis and fears over the global economy sparked another rout in the City.

The FTSE 100 index fell by 191.27 points to close at 5393.14, its lowest closing level since 2 September 2010. At 3.43%, this is the index's biggest daily fall in percentage terms since 30 March 2009, and the biggest points fall since 2 March 2009."

Ah thanks.

SnakeLee: If we defaulted it would have been catastrophic. I can't believe that anybody that is supported by businesses like the Republican party would even flirt with that idea. It is madness.

I completely agree. Just wasn't sure which one you meant. Thanks.

volfan: Came for an image of the DJIA from when Obama took office until now. Left disappointed.

Well it goes up until the republicans created a budget then it plummets.

cameroncrazy1984: stewmadness: Oh, and it's laughable for dems to make John Nobody more accountable than our Leninist president.

If you actually knew what Leninism means, you wouldn't have made this stupid, stupid comment.



R.I.P. VLADIMIR I. LENIN

The_Terminator: Keynesian economics only work when a World War destroys all major industrial powers and leaves America with the keys to the global economy.

nah.. it works fine when you're not buried in debt because the guy before you cut taxes and massively increased spending.
Keynes basically said "Government spending can help stimulate an economy so it can climb out of a recession". our "Stimulus" was weaksauce shiat that didn't get maximum return for dollar spent (shiat like the WPA, etc is FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR more effective than tax cuts).

we were well on our way to climbing out of the hole before world war II started.

Keynesian economics break down when
A) you're government is in deep debt due to bad fiscal policy during good times
B) your citizens are in deep debt due to bad fiscal practices during good times

we have both A and B + ineffective forms of stimulus.

it isn't so much "Keynes was wrong" as it is "The effectiveness of Keynesian spending can be severely blunted by other factors".

I Said: Allies should get the gang back together and just bomb the life out of Germany

no... they shouldn't..

Thank you European debt contagion.

organizmx: I think we're both saying the sort of the same thing.

No. You're blaming the Tea Party for causing problems. You may disagree with them, but they and the extreme left are the only caucuses that showed any principles in the end. They feel the US needs to balance their budget and refused to vote for the BS plan that was agreed to.

Everybody else caved to some BS deal with no teeth and just popped the debt ceiling up.

The market is reacting to nothing being done. There is no plan to get the debt in order. Obama has not presented anything, Boehner hasn't presented anything, Reid didn't present anything.

There finally was pressure to do something. There was a deadline, there was media focus, and in the end, nothing was accomplished. The defict and debt are still out of control with no plan to fix it.

"Increase the debt ceiling or its armageddon."

"Fine. But it won't fix anything, this borrow to pay for spending.... We need to actually look at that deficit thing."

"Yes, it will, Yes it will."

"In 2 days the U.S. debt to GDP is 1 to 1. Yay us. Just like third world countries. And the DOW is crashing."


Not that I told you so...but....

Mad_Radhu: miss diminutive: Is it time to convert everything I own into gold yet? Diamonds maybe? Seven legged spiders?

I hear tulips are getting to be popular.

Something non-perishable would probably make more sense though.

Treygreen13: This is the thread where we blame this on Republicans, right?

I'm pretty sure they, along with the Democrats are to blame.

The thing right wingers in this thread don;t want you to remember:

Republican's authored, and passed the budget we are in, in april. They demanded these cuts and didn't care if they lost jobs. They want to blame the budget on Democrats but it was authored by them and passed by Republican majorities in both the house and senate. It's a REPUBLICAN BUDGET.

miss diminutive: Mad_Radhu: miss diminutive: Is it time to convert everything I own into gold yet? Diamonds maybe? Seven legged spiders?

I hear tulips are getting to be popular.

Something non-perishable would probably make more sense though.

Plastics. Plastic tulips.

Fat-D: I Said: nekulor: The EU is about to enter a spiraling debt crisis worse than our own, which is why the markets sank. You know what else had this kind of lead-up? WWII.

This is why I keep saying: Every 40 - 60 years the Allies should get the gang back together and just bomb the life out of Germany, Italy, and Japan. We'll clearly never agree on how the economy bounced back after WWII, but we all agree that it did. And maybe we just need to please the "World War Gods".

lol

May I quote you on that?

Of course. I'm no economist, and I don't know how it worked . . . but clearly, it worked.

I wonder if any of this has anything to do with Bush's cronies systematically looting the national treasury & sending all our money to the middle east? Couldn't be, must be Obama's fault.

Representative of the unwashed masses: You know who could fix this problem? John Cena! Brabbadooo! All we need is a little Hustle, Lyalty and Respect!

Goddammit that cracked me up. nicely played.

essucht: No surprise. The Republican idea of "running the House" is 400 guys running around trying to rape the maid.

Hot damn! Are you ready for your next Representative from Arkansas? I'll show those teabaggers how its done. -- Bill Clinton

Just don't text pics of your penis to young attractive women who are not having a lesbian relationship with Hillary even while married to you.

I_C_Weener: "In 2 days the U.S. debt to GDP is 1 to 1. Yay us. Just like third world countries. And the DOW is crashing."

my debt is currently higher than my yearly income, but i still have a nearly 800 credit score

why? because I can pay my debt.

most people who are not underclass will have a negative net worth at some point in their life.

/my net worth is negative due to student loans
//debt > income is only a problem if you cannot meet your obligations
///raise taxes, cut spending.

meat0918 Quote 2011-08-04 05:31:49 PM
Here comes QE3.

I have an idea. Break up anything too big too fail this time around.

//Wonder if the world will think the US is too big too fail...


Nothing is too big to fail. Some things just have powerful friends in the government that will keep them afloat long enough for some to cash out.